Oral Argument

Oral Argument

By Joe Miller and Christian TurnerSociety & CultureEducationPhilosophy
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Oral Argument episodes

  • Episode 17: Flesh List

    Psst, do you want to buy a kidney? How about a human egg, or a baby? We talk about taboo markets and tragic choice with Kim Krawiec. Topics range from egg “donation” to kidney transplants, altruism, reference transactions, military service, sex, and more. How do we allocate scarce goods when enough of us just don’t believe the goods should be traded like loaves of bread? Program note: We failed to ask Kim whether Joe is monstrous on account of his views on speed trap norms. Our apologies to the listeners and to Kim.

    This show’s links:

    • Kim Krawiec’s faculty profile and writing
    • Oral Argument Episode 14: The Astronaut’s Hair, with Lisa Milot
    • The Faculty Lounge blog
    • Taxing Eggs, a mini-symposium on the Faculty Lounge blog
    • Viviana A. Rotman Zelizer, Morals and Markets: The Development of Life Insurance in the United States
    • Viviana A. Zelizer, Pricing the Priceless Child
    • Viviana A. Zelizer, The Price and Value of Children: The Case of Children’s Insurance
    • Kimberly Krawiec, Price and Pretense in the Baby Market
    • Kimberly Krawiec, A Woman’s Worth
    • Margaret Jane Radin, Contested Commodities
    • Richard Posner, The Regulation of the Market in Adoptions
    • Kimberly Krawiec, Kamakahi v. ASRM: The Egg Donor Price Fixing Litigation
    • Philip Cook and Kimberly Krawiec, A Primer on Kidney Transplantation: Anatomy of the Shortage
    • Wikipedia on the National Organ Transplant Act of 1984
    • Kieran Healy and Kimberly Krawiec, Custom, Contract, and Kidney Exchange
    • Show Me the Money: Making Markets in Forbidden Exchange, an issue of Law and Contemporary Problems
    • Kimberly Krawiec, Foreword to Show Me the Money: Making Markets in Forbidden Exchange
    • Guido Calabresi and Philip Bobbitt, Tragic Choices
    • Special Guest: Kimberly Krawiec.

      1 hr 21 min
    • Episode 16: The Whole Spectrum

      When you think of giant cable companies, do you find yourself wishing they could be bigger? Do you even find yourself thinking of giant cable companies? Whether you do or do not, you might learn something from our discussion with James Speta, who attempts to shows us the middle way on the issues facing broadband internet. Vertical and horizontal integration, bundling, packets, spectrum, and monopoly. We return to the law and policy of the network.

      This show’s links:

      • Jim Speta’s faculty profile and writing
      • James B. Speta, Supervising Managed Services
      • Oral Argument Episode 10 with Christina Mulligan, with discussion and links on many of the topics we discuss, including the Comcast-Time Warner merger, net neutrality, Verizon v. FCC, content delivery networks, the Comcast-Netflix deal, pCell technology, and common carrier regulations
      • Comcast, Press Release about its FCC filing on its proposed merger with Time Warner
      • Edward Wyatt, Internet Choice Will Be Crucial Battlefield in Big Cable Merger
      • Edward Wyatt, Senate Panel Expresses Caution on Merger of Cable Giants
      • Susan Crawford, Comcast Pretends to Be on Your Side
      • Wikipedia on the Telecommunications Act of 1996
      • The National Broadband Plan, executive summary
      • Susan Crawford, The Looming Cable Monopoly
      • Cecilia Kang, Comcast the little guy? There’s competition everywhere, the company argues
      • Bae, Beigman, Berry, Honig, Shen, Vohra, and Zhou, Spectrum Markets for Wireless Services
      • Reed Hastings, Internet Tolls And The Case For Strong Net Neutrality
      • Jon Brodkin, Netflix says it will pay “tolls” to more ISPs, not just Comcast
      • Benjamin, Shelnski, Speta, and Weiser, Telecommunications Law and Policy: Third Edition
      • Special Guest: James Speta.

        1 hr 14 min
      • Episode 15: In the Weeds

        It’s Reefer Madness week on Oral Argument. We talk with Douglas Berman about marijuana decriminalization and lots more. We discuss blogs and scholarship, LSD, why minds might be changing and how they change on drug use, parental paternalism and state paternalism, what we mean by “good drugs” and “bad drugs,” the productivity of intoxication, why law students take an interest in philosophy and sociology when it comes to drug laws. What levers should we use to minimize the dangers drugs pose, and what levers are available to us? We talk a bit about Portugal, the Netherlands, Sweden, and North Korea. Yes, North Korea. Is part of the right answer to restrict the market to Mom and Pop Pot? How do we do that in a maelstrom of conflicting federal and state laws?

        This show’s links:

        • Douglas Berman’s faculty profile and writing
        • Kimberly Krawiec, Taxing Eggs on Oral Argument on The Faculty Lounge blog
        • The best way to listen to Oral Argument: Podcast apps, such as Castro, instacast, Downcast, and Pocket Casts
        • Doug’s world-famous sentencing blog, Sentencing Law and Policy
        • Marijuana Law, Policy and Reform, Doug Berman’s latest world-famous blog
        • United States v. Marshall (Easterbrook vs. Posner on the interpretation of statutory LSD punishments)
        • Matt Ferner, Lawmaker Predicts Marijuana Will Be Legal Within 5 Years
        • Seanna Adcox (AP), South Carolina House Allows Cannabis-Derived Oil for Epilepsy
        • Alex Kreit, Controlled Substances: Crime, Regulation, and Policy
        • Alex Kreit, Controlled Substances blog posts on Doug’s Sentencing Law and Policy (this is the fourth, with earlier posts linked at the bottom of this one)
        • Ben Tool, North Korea Smokes Weed Every Day, Explaining a Lot
        • Josh Harkinson, Brett Bownell, and Julia Lurie, 24 Mind-Blowing Facts About Marijuana Production in America
        • Josh Harkinson, The Landscape-Scarring, Energy-Sucking, Wildlife-Killing Reality of Pot Farming
        • Wikipedia on Drug Policy of Sweden
        • The Dutch government’s Toleration policy regarding soft drugs and coffee shops
        • Frida Ghitis, Amsterdam for tourists: What's legal?
        • Glenn Greenwald, Drug Decriminalization in Portugal
        • Jonathan Hiskes, Tell me again why we mandate parking at bars?
        • Erik Ortiz, 8 things to know about buying and smoking pot in Colorado
        • Melissa Schettini Kearney, The Economic Winners and Losers of Legalized Gambling
        • Ashley Southall, Answers Sought for When Marijuana Laws Collide
        • Serge F. Kovalesi, U.S. Issues Marijuana Guidelines for Banks
        • Trevor Curwin, Small Growers or Corporate Cash Crop?
        • Jake Ellison, Washington State Just Shifted Marijuana Market from ‘Big Weed’ to ‘Ma and Pa Weed’
        • Abby Haglage, Meet Mark Kleiman, the Man Who Will Be Washington State’s Pot Czar
        • Gonzales v. Raich
        • Frontline interview with Mark Kleiman
        • Special Guest: Douglas Berman.

          1 hr 52 min
        • Episode 14: The Astronaut's Hair

          This is the one about eggs. Human eggs. And whether selling them is like selling chicken eggs, teaching law school, or being a good samaritan. Lisa Milot joins us to talk about taxing proceeds from transfers of human body materials. We discuss Christian’s beard, astronaut hair, egg donations, oil reservoirs, how to pronounce Kim Krawiec’s name, speed traps, and follow-up on the US News episode.

          This show’s links:

          • Episode 12: Heart of Darkness, the episode about the U.S. News Law School Rankings
          • The Ranking Game, Jeffrey Stake’s do-it-yourself rankings website
          • Jeffrey Stake and Michael Alexeev, Who Responds to U.S. News & World Report’s Law School Rankings?, forthcoming study of U.S. News rankings’ influence on student, administrators, and employers
          • Lisa Milot’s bio and writing
          • Lisa Milot, What Are We - Laborers, Factories, or Spare Parts? The Tax Treatment of Transfers of Human Body Materials
          • Taxing Eggs: A Mini-Symposium on The Faculty Lounge blog
          • Lisa Milot, Taxing Eggs
          • Cory Doctorow, Life on the Frozen-Food-Tasting Line
          • Smelling armpits
          • Richard Rubin, Egg Donor IRS Challenge Offers Future Sperm Tax Certainty
          • About egg retrieval from The Donor Source, an egg donor agency
          • Alissa Fleck, Inside the Industry of Egg Donation
          • Kimberly Krawiec, Sunny Samaritans and Egomaniacs: Price-Fixing in the Gamete Market
          • Kimberly Krawiec, A Woman’s Worth
          • Special Guest: Lisa Milot.

            1 hr 32 min
          • Episode 13: A Special Place in Hell for Joe

            Our guest, Dave Hoffman, writes about everything and helped to found one of the premier legal blogs, Concurring Opinions. We talk about the role of legal blogs in the public sphere and for the academy. And speaking of writing, what’s wrong with legal scholarship? What should we be doing, and how can the forms of writing, the fora for writing, and the expectations for scholars help or hinder that? Also, too, the return to the show of speed trap law and whether Joe satisfies the basic norms of civility.

            This show’s links:

            • David Hoffman’s bio and writing
            • Concurring Opinions
            • Prawfsblawg
            • Cultural Cognition Project
            • Dave Hoffman, The Death of Fact-finding and the Birth of Truth
            • Duncan Black (Atrios) on law profs here, here, and here
            • Matt Bodie for Prawfsblawg, The “Research Canons” Project
            • David Freeman Engstrom, The 'Twiqbal' Puzzle and Empirical Study of Civil Procedure
            • About SSRN, the Social Science Research Network
            • About B.E. Press, the Berkeley Electronic Press
            • ResearchGate
            • The Murder of Kitty Genovese
            • The Montana Speed Non-Limit
            • Special Guest: David Hoffman.

              1 hr 1 min
            • Episode 12: Heart of Darkness

              The U.S. News rankings of law schools are out! We wish they would go away. After follow-up on last week’s episode and a dip into viewer mail, we discuss what problems the rankings might be attempts to solve, how they are calculated, and the obvious problems with them. Joe reports that after the conversation, as after other discussions of the rankings, he felt like he needed a shower.

              This show’s links:

              • Episode 11: Big Red Diesel
              • Typography in ten minutes from Butterick’s Practical Typography, see also his Summary of Key Rules
              • Ben Carter, Typography for Lawyers: One Space, Double Spacing, and Other Good Ideas
              • The 2015 U.S. News and World Report Law School Rankings
              • LSAC, Choosing a Law School
              • The official U.S. News Rankings Methodology
              • Brian Leiter, An Open Letter to Bob Morse of U.S. News
              • Brian Leiter, The U.S. News Law School Rankings: A Guide for the Perplexed
              • Theodore P. Seto, Understanding the U.S. News Law School Rankings, in which Prof. Seto describes an attempt to reproduce the U.S. News model and conclusions about the rankings’ reliability, accuracy, and shortcomings
              • Paul Caron, 2015 U.S. News Peer Reputation Rankings vs. Overall Rankings
              • Robert L. Jones, A Longitudinal Analysis of the U.S. News. Law School Academic Reputation Scores Between 1998 and 2013
              • Jeffrey Evans Stake, The Interplay Between Law School Rankings, Reputations, and Resource Allocation: Ways Rankings Mislead
              • Bill Henderson, Can Stanford Be No. 1 in the U.S. New Rankings?
              • 1 hr 45 min
              • Episode 11: Big Red Diesel

                The Spring Break episode in which Joe and Christian take a break from solving the world’s legal problems to talk about the technology and culture of writing. We start with some listener feedback, and then Joe reports on an accidental experiment he performed with his car lights. Moving on to email, we discuss a number of bad habits, including needless attachments and clicking on links. Then, the big daddy: Microsoft Word. We discuss what Christian thinks is horribly wrong with it and the excellent, usable alternative to the whole concept of the WYSIWYG word processor. We argue. We close with Memphis. Christian's spouse conducts various noisy activities in the background. And Darcy barks. Never fear: we'll get back to the law stuff next week.

                This show’s links:

                • Episode 1 with Sonja West
                • Charlie Jane Anders, Great Fast Food Glasses of Yesteryear
                • Wikipedia on Headlight flashing
                • Please don’t send me Microsoft Word document
                • John Gruber, On Top
                • John Gruber, Markdown
                • David Sparks, The Joy of Text
                • Paul Jacobson, Could MultiMarkdown Replace Word for Lawyers?
                • Markdown for Lawyers
                • Markdown cheatsheet
                • Brett Terpstra, The iOS Text Editor roundup
                • Scrivener, a writing app for Mac and Windows
                • Case study on using Scrivener in a legal practice, featuring David Sparks
                • Ulysses, a writing app for Mac
                • Byword, a great text editor for Mac, iPhone, and iPad
                • Editorial, Christian’s favorite markdown editor for the iPad
                • Typography in ten minutes from Butterick’s Practical Typography, see also his Summary of Key Rules
                • Ben Carter, Typography for Lawyers: One Space, Double Spacing, and Other Good Ideas
                • 1 hr 42 min
                • Episode 10: My Beard Is Not a Common Carrier

                  This is the one about the internet, that which is neither truck nor tube. Christina Mulligan joins us to talk about our beloved cable companies, Netflix, network neutrality, regulation, monopolies, common carriers, sunken and ancient computers, and her super-secret new project (which Christian suggests could yield an excellent new conspiracy theory that would make Logan Sawyer cry). Also we answer viewer mail. Because this is a super-sized show (pour a beverage), we also mention bonobos, Schweddy Balls, Candy Crush, Candyland, the odd shape of either my coffee mugs or Joe’s face, whether we should change our name to improve our Google search position, packets spewing from unicorn horns, and the pronunciation of Smaug. Christian announces the sale of his body parts.

                  This show’s links:

                  • Christina Mulligan’s faculty profile, writings, and Twitter
                  • The Kythera Mechanism
                  • Kaiju
                  • Bonobos
                  • Owen Jones bio and writing
                  • Candy Crush cease and desist letters and recent trademark withdrawal
                  • Gramma Nutt, of Candyland fame
                  • Background on net neutrality, which has nothing to do, we are told, with this kind of neutrality
                  • Verizon v. FCC, the DC Circuit’s net neutrality case
                  • Content delivery networks
                  • Joshua Brustein, Netflix and YouTube Dominate Online Video. Can Amazon Catch Up? (Businessweek.com)
                  • Timothy Lee, Comcast’s deal with Netflix makes network neutrality obsolete (Washington Post)
                  • Traffic shaping
                  • Common carrier regulations
                  • Jon Brodkin, Make ISPs into "common carriers," says former FCC commissioner (arstechnica.com)
                  • Wikipedia on natural monopoly
                  • Steve Perlman’s pCell (also see this presentation)
                  • John McDuling, People hate Comcast and Time Warner Cable even more now that they’re merging (Quartz)
                  • About BitTorrent
                  • Uber’s surge pricing
                  • Athens’ drought-inspired tiered water rates and the general idea
                  • Yves Smith, The Myth of Maximizing Shareholder Value
                  • Jonathan Owen, The Pronunciation of Smaug
                  • The Death Star conspiracy
                  • Special Guest: Christina Mulligan.

                    1 hr 57 min
                  • Episode 9: Torches and Pitchforks

                    Law and banking in one podcast. Take deep breaths lest your racing heart burst in your chest. You think I'm joking. Probably because you don't know Mehrsa Baradaran. But then, you probably do, because everyone does. We talk about, among other things, how one should say “Mehrsa,” what banking is, It’s a Wonderful Life, how banks are subsidized and regulated, how 40 percent of the country doesn’t really bank or at least “underbanks,” and payday lenders. Christian does not call Joe “Adam Smith.” Mehrsa defends banking at the post office (dubbed by one banking industry exec “the worst idea since the Ford Edsel”). From the bank bailouts to moral hazard to the the precarious financial position of the working poor, we cover a lot of ground. And, naturally, speed traps. (Update 11/24/2018: Christian here. A listener got in touch with some very thoughtful criticism of our discussion during the intro. Talking about a gendered list, I casually raised switching genders to get on this list, in a way that the listener perceived as making a joke of transgender people. It pains me that this discussion would hurt anyone. I’m very sorry. Although it has been a long time since this conversation, I know my intent was to poke a little fun at the gendered nature of the list, though I winced at my ham-fisted mention of reassignment surgery. I hope it’s a sign of progress that I don’t believe the conversation would be the same today as it was then. But we feel strongly that retroactively editing the show should be reserved for truly exceptional situations, not to save face.)

                    This show’s links:

                    • Mehrsa Baradaran's faculty profile and writings
                    • The 100 Coolest Mormon Women Alive Today
                    • Mehrsa Baradaran, The Post Office Banks on the Poor (New York Times Op-Ed)
                    • Mehrsa Baradaran, Banking and the Social Contract
                    • The bank run in It’s a Wonderful Life
                    • About the FDIC
                    • Angelo Young, It’s Bankers vs. Wal-Mart in Push to Force Financial Regulation upon the World’s Largest Retailer
                    • Jefferson and Madison’s opposition to centralized banking
                    • Louis Brandeis, Other People’s Money
                    • Andrew G Haldane, The Dog and the Frisbee
                    • Mehrsa Baradaran, It's Time for Postal Banking
                    • Stephen Wexler, Practicing Law for Poor People
                    • Oral Argument Episode 8: Party All Over the World
                    • City of Warrensville Heights v. Wason
                    • Special Guest: Mehrsa Baradaran.

                      1 hr 15 min
                    • Episode 8: Party All Over the World

                      Fresh off a week-long, snow and ice shutdown, Joe tells Christian he doesn’t want to be called Adam Smith anymore. We discuss viewer mail. Then we circle back to the emerging show specialty: whether you can be charged for warning drivers of a speed trap. Turns out it’s a debate that sprawls over more than a hundred years. We also talk about leveling up one’s understanding of law, from bare opinions about disputes to theories of institutional assignment. Roll for initiative: it’s time for Oral Argument.

                      This show’s links:

                      • Electric Light Orchestra, Party All Over the World
                      • Robbie Robertson’s mash-up masterpiece: On the nature of daylight / This Bitter Earth
                      • Email us at [email protected]
                      • Oral Argument Episode 7: Speed Trap
                      • United States v. O’Brien
                      • DiPino v. Davis
                      • Wikipedia on Liebeck v. McDonald’s (the hot coffee case)
                      • INS v. AP
                      • 56 min

                      About Oral Argument

                      From the publisher's feed

                      A podcast about law, law school, legal theory, and other nerdy things that interest us.