What does it take to walk away from anaesthetics and lead one of the world’s top healthcare communication networks?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Vernon Bainton—Chief Medical Officer at HavasLynx—about his unconventional journey from hospital medicine to global medical communications. Vernon shares how personal upheaval, health challenges, and an unexpected meeting with three entrepreneurial clinicians changed the trajectory of his career.

We dive into:
💡 Finding career clarity through serendipity, not a five-year plan
🚪 Leaving medicine and shedding the guilt that comes with it
🌍 Launching global health campaigns that reach millions
🎯 Building a vocation in communication, creativity, and strategic influence
🧠 Why transferable skills matter more than you think—and how to spot yours

This is a must-listen for any clinician contemplating a leap into the unknown.

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🗞️ Substack: outofprogramme.com
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🎧 Spotify: Listen here
🍎 Apple Podcasts: Listen here

What happens when you choose not to pursue residency after medical school?

In this episode, we speak with Elsa Varghese—a medical doctor who walked away from the traditional path to build a career at the cutting edge of digital health. From family pressure and financial worries to launching clinical games at Level X and leading teams at Snake Inc., Elsa shares how she transformed uncertainty into opportunity.

We dive into:
💡 Finding purpose beyond the ward
🎮 Building medical education games with Hollywood-style teams
🧠 Leading diverse teams as a medical director
🏥 Redefining success in a system that doesn’t make space for change

Elsa’s story is a must-listen for anyone questioning the status quo in clinical careers.

What does it take to be a paediatric surgeon and the driving force behind one of the NHS’s most groundbreaking innovation hubs?

In this episode, we sit down with Mr. Iain Hennessey, Consultant Paediatric Surgeon and Clinical Director of Innovation at Alder Hey Children’s Hospital. From a childhood spent in the mine rescue medical centre to founding the iconic Alder Hey Innovation Hub (aka the Batcave), Iain shares how he fused medicine, creativity, and technology to forge a truly unconventional clinical career.

Tune in to hear:

• How Iain’s engineering instincts and love of theatre shaped his surgical journey

• The origin story of the Alder Hey Innovation Hub and why 2014 was a tipping point for NHS innovation

• Honest reflections on risk, failure, and redefining clinical success

• Practical advice for doctors who want to explore innovation without leaving medicine behind

Whether you're a med student, clinician, or creative thinker at a crossroads, this episode is your invitation to imagine a different kind of future in healthcare.

From Imperial dropout to Cambridge medic to digital health leader — Dr. Anushka Patchava’s career has been anything but traditional.

In this candid and energising conversation, Anushka reflects on:

• The cultural and internal pressures that pushed her into medicine

• Why she left radiology (and what a night shift at King’s Hospital had to do with it)

• Her difficult but necessary leap into consulting and health insurance

• Building WellEx and why she walked away from it

• Her brutally honest journey with mental health — and how it led her to join a mental health startup

Anushka brings radical honesty, vulnerability, and wisdom to a conversation about identity, ambition, and the courage to start again — again and again. Whether you're contemplating a transition or simply curious about what life outside of clinical work looks like, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

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Professor Sam Shah has worn more hats than most clinicians ever dream of — dentist, public health leader, NHS digital director, startup founder, and now lawyer. But none of it has been linear.

In this energising, no-holds-barred conversation, Sam reflects on:

• How being too curious almost got him thrown out of dental school — twice
• Why he challenged his deans and training programmes (and what he’d do differently now)
• The realities of navigating NHS hierarchy and its unwritten rules
• Why he left NHSX and how the politics shaped his next moves
• Startup life, burnout, and building resilience through lived experience
• How he juggles regulatory law, urgent care, board work, and still says yes too often!

🎧 A must-listen for anyone questioning the "right" way to build a career in healthcare.

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🚀 NEW PODCAST ALERT 🚀In this episode of the Out Of Programme podcast, Muhammad and Jing speak to Ms Liz Ashall-Payne, a former speech and language therapist (SALT) who is now the Chief Executive Officer of ORCHA! During this episode, Liz shares her journey from being a speech and language therapist to becoming the CEO of ORCHA, a leader in digital health. She discusses her early motivations, frustrations in clinical practice, and the emergence of digital health technologies. Liz reflects on her transition from clinician to entrepreneur, the challenges of identity in her career, and the importance of mentorship in navigating her professional growth. We go on to discuss the need for clarity in career goals and the value of learning from others. Finally, we chat to Liz as she reflects on her aspirations for ORCHA to make a global impact in healthcare and stresses the importance of aligning personal goals with professional ambitions.00:00Introduction to Ms. Liz Ashall-Payne01:09Journey into Speech and Language Therapy03:35Frustrations in Clinical Practice06:50The Emergence of Digital Health08:55Transitioning from Clinician to Entrepreneur12:54Navigating Identity and Career Changes15:41Taking the Leap into Consultancy19:38The Importance of Mentorship23:52Finding Clarity in Career Goals26:31Lessons from the Journey28:50The Role of Mentors in Professional Growth31:24The Importance of Learning and Mentorship33:19Transitioning from Consultancy to Entrepreneurship34:53Identifying Gaps in Digital Health39:23The Serendipitous Start of Orca41:54Navigating Challenges as a CEO45:08Leveraging Communication Skills in Leadership48:02Lessons Learned in Business55:54Future Aspirations and Global Impact01:01:13Defining Success and Life GoalsIf you want to see more content like this, make sure to subscribe and hit the notification bell to be informed of when we release every episode! Plus, make sure to sign up to our website to gain access to the episode transcript and exclusive access to resources shared by our guests!Till next time,Muhammad & Jing#OutOfProgramme #NewPodcast #HealthcareInnovation #medicalcareers Follow us on:➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme 🐦 Twitter: @ooppodcast👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme🦋 BlueSky: @outofprogramme.bsky.social

🚀 NEW PODCAST ALERT 🚀

In this episode of the Out Of Programme podcast, Dr. Jing Ouyang interviews his co-host, Dr. Muhammad Khan, a clinical radiology registrar based in the UK and co-founder of RadCast, a radiology educational platform and podcast that he bootstrapped whilst in radiology training.

🚀 NEW PODCAST ALERT 🚀