What good is a dashboard if no one’s using it?

In this episode, Jeannine Zito, senior manager of global knowledge solutions at Cleary Gottlieb, talks about how her background in banking shaped the way she thinks about data, strategy, and transformation inside major law firms. She gets into what happens when firms wait too long for the “perfect” data strategy, how information overload slows down adoption, and why the real driver of insight isn’t spreadsheets—it’s storytelling.

Jeannine also shares what it was like to move from JP Morgan into legal, what she learned rolling out a new intranet and firm directory in just nine months, and why the firms getting it right today are focused on building data cultures—not just tech stacks.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(01:09) Janine's career journey: from banking to law

(04:39) Challenges and epiphanies in data management

(11:11) The importance of data quality and context

(14:14) Leveraging data for strategic decisions

(23:49) Future of data and AI in legal industry

(33:54) Balancing immediate wins with long-term strategy

Connect with our guest:

• Jeannine Zito on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeannine-zito/ 
• Learn more about Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP: https://www.clearygottlieb.com/ 

Connect with Tom:

• Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ 
• Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com 

What makes a data strategy actually work inside a law firm?

In this episode, Carrie Remhof, Director of Firm Intelligence at Troutman Pepper Locke LLP, shares what she’s learned from building, implementing, and reimagining legal data systems across 30+ firms. She talks about the real reasons legal tech projects succeed or stall, why data perfection is a myth, and how firms can adopt a “fail fast” mindset without compromising on risk.

Carrie also walks us through her unique journey from software engineer to legal tech leader, offering candid advice on hybrid profiling, AI adoption, and how to avoid “data hoarding.” Plus, she breaks down how her team used AI to unify attorney bios post-merger, why curiosity matters more than credentials, and what it takes to foster a culture of innovation in a conservative industry.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(01:20) Career highlights and key learnings

(02:43) Implementing and innovating with Foundation

(06:50) Challenges and strategies in legal data management

(18:31) Adapting to new features and data capture

(19:45) Hybrid profiling and use cases at Troutman

(22:32) Innovative solutions for mergers

(25:03) Fostering a culture of innovation

(31:54) Embracing AI and data projects

Connect with our guest:

• Carrie Remhof on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-remhof-011a39b/ 
• Learn more about Troutman Pepper Locke LLP: https://www.troutman.com/ 

Connect with Tom:

• Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ 
• Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com 

What happens when data, clients, and people finally connect?

In this episode, Rachel Shields Williams, Director of Client Intelligence at Sidley Austin LLP and incoming president of the Legal Marketing Association, shares how a lifelong instinct to “just help people” evolved into one of the most forward-thinking data roles in big law.

Rachel explains why chasing perfection kills progress, what law firms can learn from a family-run business, and how to balance short-term data wins with long-term strategic value. Plus: the critical importance of soft skills in innovation, the value of failure, and why today’s legal marketers need to become fluent in data or risk being left behind.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(01:36) Rachel's career journey

(04:07) The origin of Rachel’s service mindset

(06:23) The role of data in law firms

(14:42) The importance of failing and learning

(20:11) Hiring for traits over titles

(26:13) The future of data analytics and AI

(30:10) Practical data wisdom for law firms

Connect with our guest:

• Rachel Shields Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelshieldswilliams/ 
• Learn more about Sidley Austin LLP:  https://www.sidley.com/ 

Connect with Tom:

• Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ 
• Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com 

What good is all that data if no one’s using it to take action?

In this episode, Evan Shenkman and Jennifer Mendez of Fisher Phillips break down what it really means to build a data-driven culture inside a law firm. They share how their team went from buzzwords to business impact: rolling out viral dashboards, tapping into firm-wide buy-in, and partnering with vendors to co-develop tools powered by GPT-4.

Evan and Jenn also get into the limitations of case prediction, what makes a “quick win” actually work, and why firms that obsess over the perfect model are often the ones stuck on the sidelines. Their advice? Start small. Stay close to the business. Build trust through results.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(02:05) Realizing the power of data

(02:29) Early data projects and external data

(05:26) Internal data utilization and COVID-19 tracker

(11:48) AI in law: early adoption and lessons learned

(15:06) Challenges in predictive analytics

(17:17) Data collection and management

(21:24) Common pitfalls in legal data projects

(23:37) Getting started with data in law firms

(24:08) Leveraging external data and APIs

(26:25) The power of third-party data

(27:02) Identifying high-impact projects

(28:21) Iterative development and quick wins

(32:02) Future of AI in legal practice

(38:16) Building AI competency and measuring success

Connect with our guests:

• Evan Shenkman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-shenkman-5445123/ 
• Jennifer Mendez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennperez/ 
• Learn more about Fisher Phillips: https://www.fisherphillips.com/ 

Connect with Tom:

• Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ 
• Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com

You can’t manage what you’re not measuring.

In this episode, Robert Sartin, chairman of Frost Brown Todd, shares how his background in economics, finance, and distressed M&A led him to champion a data-forward strategy long before it became industry standard. He talks about why law firms can’t afford to delay their data journeys, what it takes to turn firm-wide strategy into execution, and how he built alignment around change in a partnership environment.

Robert also discusses the unexpected power of gamification in building a data culture, and how AI will reshape pricing, talent management, and long-term firm viability.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(01:09) From banking and M&A to law firm leadership

(04:33) Why Frost Brown Todd leaned into data

(07:47) Building a value proposition with data

(10:20) Why strategy without data won’t work

(13:12) AI’s impact on pricing and firm structure

(16:21) Building buy-in inside a law firm

(20:29) What Robert would do differently

(23:15) Leading cultural change with early wins

(25:56) Gamifying historical data entry

(28:06) Using data to integrate and grow teams

(33:20) The future of Frost Brown Todd

(34:44) Advice for law firm leaders just starting

Connect with our guest:

• Robert Sartin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-sartin-a7278713/
• Learn more about Frost Brown Todd: https://frostbrowntodd.com/

Connect with Tom:

• Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ 
• Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com 

Overruled by Data is the podcast for law firms looking to accelerate their data journey without all the pain points. 

Hosted by Tom Baldwin and brought to you by Entegrata, each episode shares real-world stories from law firm leaders who’ve tackled the tough stuff—getting data from all the right places, navigating the AI hype, and scaling operations in a way that doesn’t leave you with a mountain of tech debt.

If you're in a leadership role at a law firm, this show offers valuable insights from those who've been there, sharing what works and what to avoid on your data-driven journey.