Owners & Experts

Last episode, Justin Wood told $5–20M owners to just build a product. Chris Chae has spent 15 years building them, and he's watched owners hire engineers, hand them "what to build" a couple of hours a week, and stall.

Chris ran product inside a venture studio, ran Sportsbook Review after it was acquired, and led product at Neo Financial. Today he's a fractional chief product officer. In this episode of Owners & Experts he covers:

• Why every product person should own a number

• Rebuilding an acquired business for a new market: picking a new customer and turning the old community into evangelists

• Growing a new line without cannibalizing the core

• Why the customers you turn away tell you what to build next

• Whether every $5–20M business should build a product

• What product is for now that AI has made building cheap

• Why owners stall, and when to bring in product help

Three things to try this week:

1. Look at the customers you're turning away. They're telling you what to build next.

2. Build something small yourself, even in a tool like Lovable, to learn how product works.

3. If you hire engineers, don't give "what to build" two hours a week. That's where owners stall.

Disclosure: Chris and I worked together at Flipp, and he's been advising us at CollectiveXP this year. This episode isn't sponsored.

CHAPTERS

0:00 Cold open: just build it?

0:25 Welcome to Owners & Experts

0:54 Every product person should own a number

3:01 Sportsbook Review: rebuilding an acquired business for a new market

6:58 The first big call: pick a new customer

8:02 Turning the old community into evangelists

10:26 Grow without cannibalizing the core

12:39 Neo: adding product lines around the customer

15:20 Listen to the customers you turn away

19:45 Should every $5–20M business build a product?

22:37 AI made building cheap. So what's product for?

26:31 Never touched AI? Start by building

31:04 Where to start: get in the ring

34:55 Why owners stall, and when to bring in product help

39:43 The question owners should ask: what's possible?

42:26 What to do this week

LINKS

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1GZQmQ4Iza4

Episode 1, Justin Wood: https://www.collectivexp.io/cxplive/owners-and-experts/justin-wood?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=owners-experts-ep02

Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrischae/

Owners & Experts is a weekly podcast for Canadian business owners growing a $5–20M company, hosted by John Ling and Victor Wong of CollectiveXP, part of the team that built Flipp.

CollectiveXP: https://www.collectivexp.io/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=owners-experts-ep02

AI just made your expertise cheaper. So what's left for a $5–20M business? Justin Wood, founder of Produktiv, says it's trust, and that owners should build a product around it.

Justin has spent 16 years building marketing engines in-house, at agencies and at startups. He says his own podcast, The Katalog, brought in about 20% of his agency's revenue in one year. We talk about:

• Why the $2–5M stage is a "valley of death", and the difference between a business owner and an entrepreneur

• How a podcast built his sales pipeline, and why it only works if you're curious rather than selling

• The Wealthsimple test: why a $5–20M firm needs a product, and why the product is the marketing

• How to tie every dollar of marketing spend to a dollar of revenue

• Why "boring" AI is good news for owners

Three things to try this week:

1. Write down the five questions clients ask you every week. That's your content, and maybe your first product.

2. Tag every link and QR code so you can tie a dollar spent to a dollar made.

3. Record one real conversation with a client or a peer, and put it out.

Disclosure: Justin and I worked together back in his KRFTWRK days, and we've traded notes on our businesses ever since. This episode isn't sponsored.

CHAPTERS

0:00 Cold open

0:36 Welcome to Owners & Experts

1:26 The playbook changed: from craftsperson to director

6:03 The $2–5M "valley of death": owner vs entrepreneur

9:45 AI can outthink you. It can't out-trust you

12:18 How a podcast built his pipeline

19:45 Two kinds of owners on AI

27:39 Why a $5–20M firm needs a product

29:49 The product is the marketing (the Wealthsimple test)

32:58 Tie every dollar spent to a dollar made

38:32 Turn the questions you answer every week into a product

41:57 Why "boring" AI is good news

47:30 The fundamentals haven't changed

50:30 Build the audience, then the product

53:17 What to do this week

LINKS

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/c3fTQK1bs04

Produktiv: https://produktiv.agency/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=owners-experts-ep01

Trakt: https://trakt.pro/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=owners-experts-ep01

The Katalog (Justin's podcast): https://thekatalog.co/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=owners-experts-ep01

Justin on LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/jwoodisgood

Owners & Experts is a weekly podcast for Canadian business owners growing a $5–20M company, hosted by John Ling and Victor Wong of CollectiveXP, part of the team that built Flipp.

CollectiveXP: https://collectivexp.ai/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=owners-experts-ep01