About

How does the concept of wellbeing inform animal lives? Wellbeing incorporates and yet extends previous ideas of animal welfare. It envisions in both a scientific and ethical sense how people should think and act so animals have lives that are worth living. A core concept and commitment of PAN Works, Liv Baker’s articulation of wellbeing deepens our understanding of what it means and signifies for wild and domesticated animals alike.

This is Part 1 of a 2 episodes.

HOSTS & GUESTS

Dr. Liv Baker is a conservation behaviorist, founder of the emergent field of compassionate conservation, and Fellow and Chair of the Board at PAN Works, as well as Research Director for Mahouts Elephant Foundation. She is an honorary adjunct professor at the University of British Columbia, where she earned her PhD in Animal Welfare Science and Applied Animal Biology. Dr. Baker has developed two original theoretical frameworks — the Spheres of Wellbeing Framework and Epistemic Ontology — both of which challenge Western behavioural science's treatment of animals as objects of study rather than knowing subjects with their own perspectives. Her research spans multiple species and consistently decenters human perspectives to explore how animals exercise autonomy, agency, and meaning in their lives.

William S. Lynn, PhD (Bill) is the founder of PAN Works and host of the PAN Thinks podcast. https://panworks.io/team/name/william-lynn/

Liv Baker, PhD, is a Fellow and Board Chair at PAN Works. https://panworks.io/team/name/liv-baker/

Production is by Gary Sheer. https://garysheerphotography.com/

Recorded on 6 December 2023.

Episode art by Pawel Borkowski on Unsplash. https://unsplash.com/photos/two-elephants-near-trees-XWTNFVCTS8E

FROM THIS EPISODE

Baker, L. (2013). Why individuals matter: Lessons in animal welfare and conservation. In M. Bekoff (Ed.), Ignoring Nature No More. The Case for Compassionate Conservation (pp. 159-166). University of Chicago Press.

Baker, L. (2017). Translocation biology and the clear case for compassionate conservation. Israel Journal of Ecology & Evolution, 63(3-4), 52–60. https://doi.org/10.1163/22244662-20181026

Baker, L., & Winkler, B. (2020). Asian Elephants rescue, rehabilitation, and rewilding. Animal Sentience, 28(1). https://doi.org/10.3389/fevo.2022.782840

PAN Works is an ethics think tank for animals. To help power our mission, visit https://panworks.io/

LISTEN on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pan-thinks/id1870689174

VIEW on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@panworksio

Brandon Keim’s latest book is Meet the Neighbors: Animal Minds and Life in a More-than-Human World (2024). He draws on the explosion of research into animal cognition to argue that the cities and landscapes around us are filled with thinking, feeling individuals. Taking these animals seriously means they deserve to be understood not merely as populations to be managed, but as neighbours entitled to moral consideration.

HOSTS & GUESTS

Brandon Keim is a freelance journalist specializing in science, nature, and animals. His first book was The Eye of the Sandpiper (2017), and he’s written many articles on animals for National Geographic, the New York Times, The Atlantic, and WIRED. He is also a contributing editor at Nautilus Quarterly. You can learn more about Brandon’s fascinating work on his website, https://brandonkeim.net/.

William S. Lynn, PhD (Bill) is the founder of PAN Works and host of the PAN Thinks podcast. https://panworks.io/team/name/william-lynn/

Barbara J. King is a PAN Works Fellow and a freelance science writer and public speaker, https://panworks.io/team/name/barbara-king/.

Fred Koontz, PhD, is a PAN Works Emeritus Fellow and an ethological zoologist. https://panworks.io/team/name/fred-koontz/.

Production is by Gary Sheer. https://garysheerphotography.com/

Recorded on 22 May 2025.

Episode Art Kate Russell on Unsplash, https://unsplash.com/photos/a-squirrel-is-sitting-on-a-tree-branch-6vQ-Kq2dkZc?

FROM THIS EPISODE

Keim, B. (2017). The Eye of the Sandpiper: Stories from the Living World (1 ed.). Comstock Publishing Associates.

Keim, B. (2024). Meet the Neighbors: Animal Minds and Life in a More-than-Human World. W. W. Norton.

Keim, B. (2025). When That Chickadee Is No Longer “A Machine With Feathers”. Issues in Science and Technology, XLI(3 Spring), 52–59. https://doi.org/10.58875/PIKP7447

King, B. J. (2024). Valuing animal lives. Science. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.adq5698

Lynn, W. S. (2025). Chickadee was Never a Feathered Machine. Issues in Science and Technology, XLI(4), forthcoming. https://issues.org/evolving-view-animal-minds-keim-forum/

This pod is part of a joint series on ethics in conservation undertaken by PAN Works and the Society for Conservation Biology North America.

PAN Works is an ethics think tank for animals. To help power our mission, visit https://panworks.io/

LISTEN on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pan-thinks/id1870689174

VIEW on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@panworksio

In this episode we explore the thought of ethicist and philosopher Mary Midgley. Midgley was a key scholar of common-sense morality, and the most important ethicist of animals in the last century. Her ideas have enduring significance for people, animals and nature today.

GUEST and Host

Greg McElwain is Professor of Philosophy and Religion at the College of Idaho. He is a leading expert on the thought of Mary Midgley, and author of Mary Midgley: An Introduction (Bloomsbury, 2020), https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/mary-midgley-9781350047563/. His forthcoming book is Mary Midgley on What Matters: Conversations on Science, Ethics, and Nature (Bloomsbury, 2026).

William S. Lynn, PhD (Bill) is the founder of PAN Works and host of the PAN Thinks podcast. https://panworks.io/team/name/william-lynn/

Production is by Gary Sheer. https://garysheerphotography.com/

FROM THIS EPISODE

Clare Mac Cumhaill and Rachael Wiseman, Metaphysical Animals:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/617233/metaphysical-animals-by-clare-mac-cumhaill-and-rachael-wiseman/

Benjamin Lipscomb, The Women Are Up to Something:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-women-are-up-to-something-9780197541074?cc=us&lang=en&

Notes from a Biscuit Tin:

https://www.notesfromabiscuittin.com/

Greg McElwain’s work:

https://gregorysmcelwain.academia.edu/

Nat Dyer’s Obituary of Mary Midgley

https://philosophynow.org/issues/140/Mary_Midgley_1919-2018

***

PAN Works is an ethics think tank for animals. To help power our mission, visit https://panworks.io/

LISTEN on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pan-thinks/id1870689174

VIEW on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@panworksio

Dr. Neimeic shares her research on the factors influencing public support of carnivore protection ballot initiatives. Using moral foundations theory and data from in-person interviews, she demonstrates the arguments and messaging swaying voters on carnivore protection issues.

HOSTS & GUESTS

Bernard Travessari, MS (Bernie) is the host for this episode. He is Director of Operations & Programs for the Society for Conservation Biology North America. https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardotraversari/

William S. Lynn, PhD (Bill) is the founder of PAN Works and host of the PAN Thinks podcast. https://panworks.io/team/name/william-lynn/

Rebecca Neimeic, PhD (Becky) is Co-Director of the Animal-Human Policy Center at Colorado State University. https://sites.warnercnr.colostate.edu/animalhumanpolicy/

Production is by Gary Sheer. https://garysheerphotography.com/

FROM THIS EPISODE

Niemiec, R., Kogan, L., Jones, M. S., Santiago-Ávila, F. J., Seacor, R., Mertens, A., & Crooks, K. (2026). Widespread public support and pluralistic ignorance associated with United States Animal Protection Policy. Human-Animal Interactions, 14:1, 1–12. https://doi.org/10.1079/hai.2026.0001

This pod is part of a joint series on ethics in conservation undertaken by PAN Works and the Society for Conservation Biology North America.

PAN Works is an ethics think tank for animals. To help power our mission, visit https://panworks.io/

LISTEN on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pan-thinks/id1870689174

VIEW on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@panworksio

An introduction to the meaning of ethics, the place of intrinsic value and moral community in ethical understanding, and the distinction between descriptive and normative ethics in public policy.

HOSTS & GUESTS

Bernard Travessari, MS (Bernie) is the host for this episode. He is Director of Operations & Programs for the Society for Conservation Biology North America. https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardotraversari/

William S. Lynn, PhD (Bill) is the founder of PAN Works and host of the PAN Thinks podcast. https://panworks.io/team/name/william-lynn/

Production is by Gary Sheer. https://garysheerphotography.com/

FROM THIS EPISODE

Lynn, W. S., Baker, L., Santiago-Ávila, F. J., & Stewart, K. L. (2023). Ethics, Wellbeing and Wild Lives. In A. H. Fine, M. Mueller, Z. Ng, J. M. Peralta, & A. Beck (Eds.), The Routledge International Handbook on Human-Animal Interactions, Interventions and Anthrozoology (pp. 438-452). Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781032153346

This pod is part of a joint series on ethics in conservation undertaken by PAN Works and the Society for Conservation Biology North America

PAN Works is an ethics think tank for animals. To help power our mission, visit https://panworks.io/

LISTEN on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pan-thinks/id1870689174

VIEW on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@panworksio