Pardon Me – Another Damn Impeachment Show

We had trouble mustering enthusiasm to wrap up our final episode of this second season of Pardon Me. Last week's roller coaster of a trial culminated in 43 senators choosing to acquit on a weak and deceptive defense -- despite a factual and painstaking accounting of how bad the breach was, how bad it might have been, and how Donald Trump incited it.

We talk to a former CIA analyst about how bad it could have been and a TV critic on the power of the visual. We also bring you factoids with Chion Wolf and Colin's closing essay.

GUESTS:

• James Poniewozik - Chief television critic for The New York Times and the author of Audience of One: Donald Trump, Television, and the Fracturing of America
• David Priess - A former intelligence officer at the CIA; his most recent book is How To Get Rid of a President: History's Guide to Removing Unpopular, Unable, or Unfit Chief Executives
• Chion Wolf - The host of Audacious with Chion Wolf on Connecticut Public Radio

Cat Pastor contributed to this show.

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Donald Trump's legal team delivered their defense of the former president Friday. They followed a tightly argued and visceral presentation delivered by House managers that, some say, has made it easy for Republican senators to convict Trump. They likely won't.

We wondered if our show, recorded in part on Thursday, would omit important events that occurred thereafter. Given that many Republican senators have already decided to acquit, why would the defense feel the need to address the 144 constitutional lawyers who debunked their First Amendment argument, the 150 constitutional lawyers who say the impeachment of Trump is constitutional, or the people of this country?

We knew the ending before it even began.

GUESTS:

• Dahlia Lithwick - Writes about the courts and the law for Slate and hosts the podcast Amicus
• Sascha Paruk - Lead oddsmaker and editor at Sports Betting Dime
• Robyn Walsh - Assistant professor of the New Testament and early Christianity at the University of Miami and the author of The Origins of Early Christian Literature: Contextualizing the New Testament within Greco-Roman Literary Culture
• Chion Wolf - The host of Audacious with Chion Wolf on Connecticut Public Radio
• Bill Yousman - Professor of media studies at Sacred Heart University

Cat Pastor contributed to this show.

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We took a chance that House Democrats were going to send the Article of Impeachment to the Senate this week. We were wrong. Instead, the House will transmit its Article of Impeachment charging former President Trump with "incitement of insurrection" to the Senate on Monday.

Why should the House wait any longer when more than a dozen Republican senators are trying to dismiss the impeachment trial before it begins, based on the disputed claim that it's unconstitutional to try an ex-president. And House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is already walking back his prior claim that Trump incited the riot at the Capitol.

We talk about proving "incitement" and the fashion legacy of Trump. We also bring you factoids with Chion Wolf and our first second-season AccuFrankie dispatch from reporter Frankie Graziano.

GUESTS:

• Vanessa Friedman - Fashion director for The New York Times
• Frankie Graziano - A reporter for Connecticut Public Radio
• Catherine J. Ross - Professor of law at the George Washington University Law School and the author of a forthcoming book, Presidential Lies, The First Amendment, and Democracy
• Chion Wolf - The host of Audacious with Chion Wolf on Connecticut Public Radio

Cat Pastor contributed to this show.

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Previously on Pardon Me (Another Damn Impeachment Show?): House Democrats voted to impeach President Trump on two Articles of Impeachment: "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress." He was later acquitted promptly after Senate Republicans voted against calling witnesses or admitting new evidence.

Now (less than 48 weeks later), on Season Two of Pardon Me: House Democrats, along with 10 Republicans, voted to impeach President Trump Wednesday on one Article of Impeachment: "incitement of insurrection." Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., promptly responded that there'll be no trial while he's Senate leader.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

This hour, we talk about the constitutional gray zone of impeaching a president no longer in office, co-opting historically significant language, and a musical response to this political moment. And, we bring back Factoids with Chion Wolf.

GUESTS:

• Joanne Freeman - The Class of 1954 Professor of History & American Studies at Yale University and the co-host of the American History podcast Backstory; her most recent book is The Field of Blood: Violence in Congress and the Road to Civil War
• Michael Gerhardt - The Burton Craige University Distinguished Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of North Carolina School of Law in Chapel Hill and the author of seven books; his most recent is Lincoln's Mentors: The Education of a Leader
• Jill Sobule - An award-winning singer, songwriter, and guitarist; her most recent album is Nostalgia Kills
• Chion Wolf - The host of Audacious with Chion Wolf on Connecticut Public Radio

Cat Pastor contributed to this show.

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four Department of Justice prosecutors working on the case of Roger Stone, a close friend of President Trump, withdrew from legal proceedings Tuesday after Attorney General William Barr overruled their sentencing recommendations. The president had complained about the long sentence.

Barr denied that President Trump asked him to intervene and claimed he wouldn't be "bullied or influenced by anybody." He said Thursday that the president should stop tweeting about DOJ criminal cases. The president took to Twitter Friday to say he has the "legal right." Shortly therafter, the DOJ dropped their probe into former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.

Before you think this is more than theater, keep in mind that Barr also set up a process to vet information that Rudy Giuliani is gathering in Ukraine. And he tasked prosecutors to review the case of former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.

This is the last episode of Pardon Me. We think it's fitting to end the series on endings: the end of functioning institutions, the end of trust in government, the end of fact-based reality, the end of freedom for the press -- the end of democracy, itself.

We remain hopeful.

GUESTS:

• Frankie Graziano - A reporter at Connecticut Public Radio
• David Plotz - CEO of Atlas Obscura, co-host of the Slate Political Gabfest
• Jay Rosen - A media critic and a professor of journalism at NYU
• Philip Rucker - White House Bureau Chief at The Washington Post, co-author of A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump's Testing of America
• Chion Wolf - A producer, photographer, and announcer at Connecticut Public Radio

Thanks to Catie Talarski and Tim Rasmussen.

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Note: This episode contains strong language.

The Senate acquitted President Trump on both articles of the impeachment. Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, was the only Republican who voted to convict the president on one charge, for "egregious" behavior he believed rose to the level of a "high crime and misdemeanor."

President Trump responded with anger. He fumed at his perceived enemies at Thursday's National Prayer Breakfast. They include members of Congress, people on his staff, FBI agents, and even the state of New York. Senate Republicans hoping for a more subdued Trump were wrong. Others knew better. One remains hopeful.

This week, Colin speaks with Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., and professor Ryan Goodman about how the fallout from the Senate acquittal of the president could affect the future of the election and the country.

Plus: another edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf and impressions from a Connecticut man who attended the House impeachment hearings and the Senate impeachment trial.

GUESTS:

• Ryan Goodman - Founding co-editor-in-chief of Just Security, professor of law at NYU School of Law, and professor of politics and sociology at NYU
• Kyle Knickerbocker - A merchant mariner from Essex, Conn., who went to see the impeachment hearings and trial in person a whole bunch of times
• Chris Murphy - Democratic U.S. Senator from Connecticut
• Chion Wolf - A producer, photographer, and announcer at Connecticut Public Radio

Thanks to Eugene Amatruda.

Email us your questions at [email protected].

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Senate has voted, 51 to 49, not to subpoena witnesses or documents in its impeachment trial of President Trump. Closing arguments are expected on Monday, and a verdict could come next Wednesday afternoon.

This week, Colin and The Gist's Mike Pesca puzzle over the Republican strategy and Alan Dershowitz. He's the Trump attorney who argued that the president could engage in a quid pro quo that benefited him personally as long as he believes his reelection is in the public interest. Dershowitz believes the media misunderstood his argument. These are his words.

And New York Times TV critic James Poniewozik gets into the impeachment as television. He's not entirely sure democracy will be renewed for another season.

Plus: another edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf, and we sent intrepid reporter Frankie Graziano back out into the world to talk to more of the elusive "regular people."

GUESTS:

• Carmen Baskauf - Producer for Where We Live and the occasional host of The Carmen Baskauf Show on Connecticut Public Radio
• Frankie Graziano - A reporter at Connecticut Public Radio
• Dahlia Lithwick - Writes about the courts and the law for Slate and hosts the podcast Amicus
• Mike Pesca - Host of the Slate daily podcast The Gist
• James Poniewozik - Chief television critic for The New York Times and the author of Audience of One: Donald Trump, Television, and the Fracturing of America
• Chion Wolf - Producer, photographer, and announcer at Connecticut Public Radio

Thanks to Eugene Amatruda.

Email us your questions at [email protected].

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The New York Times reported Sunday night that former National Security Adviser John Bolton claims in the draft of his new book that President Trump told him in August that he wanted to withhold military aid from Ukraine unless Ukrainian officials helped with investigations into Democrats, including former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter.  

Bolton went on to implicate Attorney General William Barr, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney in the cover-up. 

Also in this bonus episode: Colin on why the way Secretary of State Mike Pompeo treated Mary Louise Kelly, host of NPR's All Things Considered, is a big problem.  

GUEST: 

• Bill Curry - Former White House counselor to Bill Clinton and a two-time Democratic nominee for governor of Connecticut

Email us your questions at [email protected].

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chief Justice John Roberts scolded House managers and the President's counsel early Wednesday for using language beneath the dignity of the world's "greatest deliberative body."

This, after Senator Susan Collins complained about "unsettling comments" she felt went against Senate rules of decorum.

Speaking of decorum, senators played with fidget spinners and did crossword puzzles while House managers made their case for impeachment. Enough of this pettifoggery!

This week, Slate's Dahlia Lithwick says we're in a scary race to the bottom in our political conduct; law professor Lara Bazelon implores House managers to appeal directly to voters (senators in "total coordination" with the White House won't listen); and Washington Post correspondent Philip Bump brings us the "Impeachment Polka."

Also this hour: the fourth edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf.

Please note: The podcast version of this week's episode is fully 66 seconds longer than the radio version, and every one of those 66 seconds is filled with more of The Jay Sekulow Band (which, you'll find, is a real thing). You are welcome.

GUESTS:

• Bruce Ackerman - The Sterling Professor of Law and Political Science at Yale and the author of nineteen books
• Lara Bazelon - Professor of law at the University of San Francisco School of Law, contributor to Slate and Politico Magazine, and the author of Rectify: The Power of Restorative Justice After Wrongful Conviction
• Philip Bump - A correspondent for The Washington Post
• Rebecca Castellani - A music writer for the Red Hook Star Revue
• Dahlia Lithwick - Writes about the courts and the law for Slate; host of the podcast Amicus
• Chion Wolf - A producer, photographer, and announcer at Connecticut Public Radio

Email us your questions at [email protected].

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Slate's Stephen Metcalf thinks President Trump is a hostage to 1979.

Why else would he overreact by killing Iranian Major General Qassem Soleimani for inciting protesters to storm the U.S. Embassy in Iraq?

In President Trump's mind, it was the right response. How else could he avoid the fate of Jimmy Carter, a once popular president deemed weak after failing to bring home 52 hostages captured during the Iranian Revolution? Why else would the President threaten 52 cultural sites, one for each of those captured hostages?

This is Colin's full interview with Stephen Metcalf, lightly edited for sound but not content. You can hear a shortened version in Episode 7 of Pardon Me (Another Damn Impeachment Show?).

GUEST:

• Stephen Metcalf - Host of the Slate Culture Gabfest; he's working on a book about the 1980s

Thanks to Catie Talarski and Chion Wolf.

Email us your questions at [email protected].

Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio.

Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.