Parts & Charts: The IFS and Astrology Podcast

You’re listening to PART TWO of our 12th House Episode with Astrotherapist Lisa Broggi.

My dawg, Parts & Charts is blessed by Lisa’s lush insights and experience — we are very lucky to have her on AGAIN! Stay tuned for more guest episodes with her. There are endless amounts of topics to cover :)

Be sure to subscribe here on Substack and follow — available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.

About Our Guest

Lisa Broggi aka The Lilith Therapist is a licensed therapist who integrates astrology into her work using the birth chart and current planetary transits to support clients in their healing and growth. She is also an astrology coach and educator, working one on one with clients and also offering online workshops and courses focused on astrology, healing, and reclaiming personal power so individuals can show up in the collective with their unique gifts. You can find her on socials as @the.lilith.therapist on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.

Here’s the thing about the 12th house: it doesn’t want to be understood.

It wants to be survived, dissolved into, and quietly thanked on the way out — which is, if you think about it, how most of the important things in a life actually work.

Nobody understands grief. Nobody understands the ocean. Nobody understands what happens in the last half hour of a good dinner with people they love, when the plates are mostly empty and nobody wants to be the first to stand up.

Lisa gets there through headphones. Taurus in the 12th, doing its slow sensory disappearing act — the body going still until whatever needed to move has moved. Chelsea goes to the ocean, or to Esalen, or to a Dharma talk, or into her own apartment for a week of careful solitude she has the good sense not to apologize for. KP goes to libraries. Same house, different waters. Everyone with a 12th house — which is everyone — has a version of this.

The textbooks, the apps, the astrology content designed to be frightening so people keep scrolling, they all want to name the 12th the house of self-undoing, hidden enemies, isolation, loss.

Which: sure, fine, sometimes.

But it’s also just what a certain kind of energy looks like before anyone’s taught you how to use it.

Lisa names the sponge, and the conversation slows down around it, because this is the thing that cracks the episode open. You walk into a room and you pick up what isn’t being said — the grief under the small talk, the resentment under the compliment, the want nobody in the room has given themselves permission to name. And then something comes out of your mouth, and it lands a little too hard, and people call you intense or triggering or too much, and you weren’t doing it on purpose. You were just reading the room. You were in the soup, as Lisa puts it, and one of the things about being in the soup is that you don’t always know where you end and the soup begins. Alone time isn’t a preference for a 12th house placement. It’s a calibration. It’s how you figure out whose feelings you’ve been carrying around all afternoon like somebody else’s coat.

Two vocabularies meet in this episode. Lisa reads the 12th house cusp through IFS — the signs as managers and firefighters, the strategies the psyche built to handle what it couldn’t metabolize in the open. KP reads it through a Jungian frame — closer to a map of unconscious material anyone with that placement was always going to have to meet, and the archetypal shape it takes when it finally meets them. Different languages, similar observation: something has been working on your behalf, mostly unseen, and naming it gives you choice about how it gets expressed. Otherwise — and this is KP being plain in the best way — sometimes it just turns into cigarettes.

Lisa shared her “Unison” story — her most alive 12th house memory: A Billy Joel and Elton John concert. Not even a song she particularly loved. The music drops out entirely and thousands of people keep singing Crocodile Rock a capella into the dark, and something opens up in her that has not, strictly speaking, closed. She had no language for it then. She has a little now. It’s a full-body reaction she still can’t quite talk about without almost crying. That’s the 12th house — the moment the self thins out and something else floods in, not as loss but as company.

KP tells another version, a client of hers who described community singing. You show up. You learn a song together. You sing it a few times. You go home. I don’t feel like I’m myself, the client said, but I’m part of everyone. There are a lot of definitions of the 12th house, some of them elaborate, some of them in Latin, and none of them are as good as that sentence. It isn’t the loss of the self. It’s the temporary porousness that lets a person locate a self worth coming back to. The self doesn’t go anywhere. It just stops being the loudest thing in the room for a minute, which — honestly — is a mercy.

You cannot see the 12th from where you’re standing. It’s where human beings put God because we can’t see God from here either. The Sagittarius 12th goes on a quest — into a library, into a book, into a paragraph that rearranges the furniture. The Cancer 12th house goes to the ocean and talks to the mermaid. The Taurus 12th puts on headphones and doesn’t move until something clears. They’re the house doing exactly what it does, which is find the path to something bigger by disappearing into it first.

You may feel like you’ll lose yourself. Or you may come back with more information than you left with.

Healthy hermit is a diagnosis and a lifestyle. Find your sign. Find your escape hatch.

Also in this episode

* Why the zodiac sign on your 12th house cusp maps to protective strategies, and how to read it without judgment

* The case for IFS as a clinically “woo” modality — and why that isn’t an insult

* Lisa’s Taurus 12th: control parts, resistance to change, and surviving the Uranus in Taurus transit like a graduation

* Healthy escapism as a legitimate 12th house practice — community singing, horse therapy, hot springs, and the Marin Headlands at the edge of the world

* Why 12th housers sometimes say the unspoken thing in the room, and what to do about it when you’re the one doing it

Quotes

“All energies of us must be expressed. And if you know what your 12th house energy is, you have more choice in how it’s expressed. Otherwise, sometimes it turns into smoking cigarettes.”

— Lisa Broggi

“The 12th house is boundaryless — which is why you really do have to actively work to stay in your body and have boundaries. But there’s something super spongy and porous about it. You are a sponge. You are picking up energy everywhere you go.”

-Lisa Broggi

“What comes out of my mouth will be something that’s in the room but not spoken about — and I’m not doing it consciously at all. Some people say 12th housers can be really triggering to other people. But it’s just — you’re in the soup.”

-Lisa Broggi

“The 12th house sign — the zodiac sign — could be really great for understanding what some of your major firefighters are. Like, this sabotage. How do you abuse it? You want to find the healthy expression of that.”

-Lisa Broggi

“The 12th house paths are the way to find God.”

-KP Kaszubowski

“The 12th house is where we as humans choose where God is. It’s the vantage point we can’t see from — so that’s where we conceive of source and spirit. Our 12th house paths are the way to God, if we want to be reductive.”

-KP Kaszubowski

“Moon in the 12th, the ocean is my mother, no s**t.”

-Lisa Broggi

Work With Us

Hellenistic astrologer · Astro Parts Work · poet

KP offers Hellenistic chart readings that treat the birth chart as a map of the psyche’s inner figures — not a verdict, a conversation starter. She’s also currently accepting a small number of practice clients for her Astro Parts Method sessions: guided meetings with your planets as parts, using active imagination. Interest form open now.

Book a chart reading

Astrology for Makers ↗

Chelsea Owens

Licensed therapist · Certified IFS Level 3

Chelsea works with individuals using Internal Family Systems therapy — the same framework she brings to Parts & Charts. Her sessions are warm, rigorous, and grounded in genuine clinical training. Now accepting new clients.

Book an IFS session

Chelsea’s Substack ↗

Lisa Broggi

Licensed therapist and Astrologer

Lisa Broggi’s website and teaching offerings

* The Lilith Therapist TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@the.lilith.therapist

* Lisa’s website: https://www.pinkmoontherapy.com/

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.

Chart Roulette

[Apr 18, 2026 12:00 PM CT · Virtual via Zoom]

Bring your chart. KP reads it live. The wheel decides who goes first — which is another way of saying: the planets decide. Fast, candid, and probably illuminating in ways you didn’t expect.

Register here →

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.

Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

About Our Guest

Lisa Broggi aka The Lilith Therapist is a licensed therapist who integrates astrology into her work using the birth chart and current planetary transits to support clients in their healing and growth. She is also an astrology coach and educator, working one on one with clients and also offering online workshops and courses focused on astrology, healing, and reclaiming personal power so individuals can show up in the collective with their unique gifts. You can find her on socials as @the.lilith.therapist on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.

Opening

There are experiences that refuse to be named while you’re inside them—and the 12th house is one of them

All three of us enter the same guided 12th house meditation. One of us gets flashes. One of us gets language that won’t quite land. One of us gets something that doesn’t feel like it belongs to her at all. No one leaves with a clean answer.

“I feel like I discovered things living in my unconscious that were always there—and sometimes that was insight, and sometimes that was old trauma coming straight to the surface.”

What This Episode Is Actually About

This isn’t an episode about “what the 12th house means.” It’s about what happens when something in you predates language—when you’re carrying material that is yours, not yours, and also somehow your responsibility. And what it asks of you when it finally starts to surface

Also In This Episode

* Why the 12th house has a reputation for doom—and what gets missed when we stop there

* The difference between your unconscious material and what’s been inherited, absorbed, or picked up along the way

* Uranus transiting the 12th house as a kind of forced revelation: insight, rupture, liberation (not pretty)

* Jupiter in the 12th as a testing of faith rather than a delivery of luck—“it was meant to be” meets “why does this feel so hard?”

* The 12th house as archetypal language: why symbols, tarot, and image-based work can reach what words can’t

* How IFS names what astrology gestures toward: legacy burdens, exile, protectors—and the question underneath all of it, which is what is actually mine?

A belief you can’t shake. A body that knows before you do. A story that starts before you were born and keeps speaking anyway. The 12th house isn’t asking you to solve it. It’s asking you to notice what’s already moving—slow enough to catch the lantern light.

Part one, which means we’re still in it.

Part two is where we get into what you actually do with all of this—therapy, practice, application, the part where you try to live with what you’ve seen.

In the meantime, there’s a guided 12th house meditation waiting for you if you want to feel this in your own body. It’s available for paid subscribers on Substack.

Come tell us what showed up for you. Or don’t. Very 12th house either way.

Thanks for reading Parts & Charts! This post is public so feel free to share it.

Key Quotes

“The 12th house doesn’t respond to desire the way the rest of the chart does. You don’t get to force it—you only get to notice what arises.”

-KP

“I thought Jupiter in the 12th would feel lucky—and instead it’s testing my faith every day.”

-Chelsea

“The 12th house is the unconscious—personal, inherited, and collective—all at once.”

-Lisa

“It’s not even your stuff all the time—but you feel it like it is.”

Lisa

Work With Us

Hellenistic astrologer · Astro Parts Work · poet

KP offers Hellenistic chart readings that treat the birth chart as a map of the psyche’s inner figures — not a verdict, a conversation starter. She’s also currently accepting a small number of practice clients for her Astro Parts Method sessions: guided meetings with your planets as parts, using active imagination. Interest form open now.

Book a chart reading

Apply for a practice session

Astrology for Makers ↗

Chelsea Owens

Licensed therapist · Certified IFS Level 3

Chelsea works with individuals using Internal Family Systems therapy — the same framework she brings to Parts & Charts. Her sessions are warm, rigorous, and grounded in genuine clinical training. Now accepting new clients.

Book an IFS session

Chelsea’s Substack ↗

Lisa Broggi

Licensed therapist and astrologer

Lisa Broggi’s website and teaching offerings

* The Lilith Therapist TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@the.lilith.therapist

* Lisa’s website:

https://www.pinkmoontherapy.com/

If you know someone’s sun, moon, and rising but still can’t figure out why the work isn’t landing, these three data points will tell you what you’re missing.

Take a look at this episode’s reference guide: https://kpkaszu.notion.site/Quick-Chart-Reference-for-Therapists-32f9fb7abf14802b943dfd6b115bf4b2

This is Astro 201!

Which means we’re assuming you already Googled your rising sign and went on a deep dive with it in 2019. If you want more of this — we’ll be back with more Astro 201 throughout the season!

What This Episode Is Actually About

This is about the gap between knowing astrology and knowing how to use it in the room with another person — how to listen differently, ask better questions, and stop assuming everyone processes the same way you do just because you’ve both got feelings and a birth chart.

Also In This Episode

* Why chart ruler matters more than sun sign when you’re trying to understand how someone moves through their life — a Venus-ruled person and a Mars-ruled person are going to approach the same conflict with completely opposite instincts

* Day chart vs. night chart (sect) as a way to understand whether someone’s natural mode is extroverted or introverted, and why that matters when you’re helping them figure out where their energy actually comes from

* The Mercury in Libra thing: how someone’s Mercury sign tells you what kind of language makes them feel safe enough to go deeper (spoiler: sarcasm does not land the same way for everyone)

* Why knowing someone is Saturn-ruled might explain the chest-weight feeling they keep describing, while a Mercury-ruled person’s fear shows up as a mental loop they can’t get out of

* KP’s Uranus-Mercury aspect and why her therapist (if she had one) would give her extra space to invent the perfect strange phrase for what’s happening — which is very first house of her

* The quiet precision required to work ethically with someone’s chart when you’re also holding space for their actual life

Chart ruler tells you the rhythm someone’s life moves at.

Sect tells you whether they bloom in the spotlight or the study.

Mercury tells you what grammar their nervous system needs to hear before it believes you’re not going to flatten them into a diagnosis.

Anchor Moment

KP Kaszubowski talks about Mercury in Libra like it’s a person who will leave the room if you use coarse language — not because they’re precious, but because fairness and beauty in phrasing is how they know they’re safe. Chelsea Owens immediately thinks of all the times she’s dropped an F-bomb in session and wonders which Mercuries trusted her more because of it.

KP describes sect like this: if you’re a day chart person and your luck comes from being seen, you’re going to process feedback from your boss differently than a night chart person whose luck comes from the work nobody watches you do. Same problem, completely different nervous system.

The glyph for Jupiter was referenced—The Jupiter glyph (♃) represents the triumph of mind over matter, depicted as a crescent (soul/mind) rising above a cross (material world). While some jokingly refer to it as "24" because of its shape, its resemblance to the number 4 is a common association in modern astrology. The modern form actually evolved from a symbol of the Greek letter Zeta (ζ), which is the first letter of Zeus, the Greek counterpart to the Roman god Jupiter.

Subscribe at partsandcharts.substack.com and tell us if you’re a day or night chart. We’re collecting data. For science. And also because we’re nosy.

Quotes:

“I would just approach it differently because of their chart ruler. Fear shows up differently depending on your chart ruler, if you’re saturn-ruled fear has more like a weight on the chest sense where mercury-ruled people that’s virgo or gemini rising, fear might be more of like a mental thing or more of a thought loop kind of thing.”

-KP

“I was going to say the chart ruler is kind of their leader, right? And we’re just helping them understand, to come into that power of what that feels like, what it looks like,and how to lead.”

-Chelsea

“And chart rulers make all the sense in the world because you’ve done all of that connecting,energetic connecting work in your heart,and in your mind.So much more of astrology opens up when that happens.”

-KP

“So the last thing I would look at if I were a therapist, which I’m not,is the mercury sign and placement and aspects to mercury, because when you’re in conversation with a therapist as a client, your mercury is being utilized.Mercury is in the room.”

-KP

Upcoming Events

Chart Roulette with KP [Apr 18, 2026 12:00 PM CT · Virtual via Zoom]KP reads birth charts live — fast, candid, no fluff. Bring your chart or just watch someone else get their planets read in real time.

Register here → https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/1HWNohQMTn6Sxm5qlnZ3_Q#/registration

Shadow Summit May 2nd, 10AM Virtual eventA virtual gathering for shadow work practitioners, depth psychology nerds, and anyone who’s done enough inner work to know the shadow isn’t the villain. Hosted by Moonshadow (KP + Ashley Abubakar ). Keynote by Barry Michels , breakout sessions, and a closing ritual that doesn’t make you roll your eyes.

Register here → https://events.humanitix.com/virtual-shadow-summit?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&utm_id=97760_v0_s00_e0_tv3_a1denni7a5idfg

Work With Us

Work with KP Hellenistic chart readings + Astro Parts Method practice sessions (meeting your planets as inner figures using active imagination). Not therapy! Not coaching! A structured creative and psychological inquiry into what your chart is actually saying.Book with KP → https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule/30448d1a

Work with Chelsea IFS therapy sessions with a licensed marriage and family therapist (Level 3 IFS certified). Rigorous, warm, and grounded in the belief that all your parts make sense — even the ones you wish didn’t exist.Book with Chelsea → https://chelseaowenstherapy.com/

Guest: Lauren Donelson Jones — Certified IFS Therapist & Astrologer

Up-Coming Virtual Event [Free]:

Chart Roulette

[Apr 18, 2026 12:00 PM CT · Virtual via Zoom]

Bring your chart. KP reads it live. The wheel decides who goes first — which is another way of saying: the planets decide. Fast, candid, and probably illuminating in ways you didn’t expect.

Register here →

Astrology tells you which parts are about to knock. IFS is what you do when they knock.

Lauren Donelson Jones has been running both systems together for five years, and she came on to explain how.

About Our Guest

Lauren Donelson Jones is a licensed marriage and family therapist and IFS-certified practitioner based in Portland, Oregon. She works at the intersection of Internal Family Systems therapy, astrology, and somatic and psychedelic-assisted modalities — bringing chart work and depth psychological practice into the same room. She studied astrology with Kelly Surtees and completed IFS Level 2 certification through the IFS Institute. She sees clients in person in Portland and virtually across Oregon and Washington. Find her at laurendonelsontherapy.com.

“If someone hands you a map, you’re not going to heal yourself with a map. It’s not the greatest healing tool. But a map is still incredibly valuable.”

— Lauren Donelson Jones

Where do either of these modalities differ?

Astrology gives you a chart, or a map of a person but it can’t do any healing. The map is not the healing. It tells you the weather, names the terrain, shows you which parts are likely to surface and when. But handing someone a map of their inner life isn’t the same as walking them through it. Lauren uses astrology to know what to expect and IFS to meet what actually shows up. Neither swallows the other. That’s the whole thing — and it’s more useful than any single system trying to do everything.

What This Episode Is Actually About

Whether you can borrow a framework’s insights without borrowing its authority. Two systems, same interior territory, completely different languages — and what happens when someone is fluent in both and refuses to flatten them. Also: the Mars-Uranus conjunction this summer, and why Lauren is not going into prepper mode but is also not leaving the house on the Fourth of July.

Also In This Episode

* Why a Pluto transit and a trauma-processing season feel structurally identical — and how naming the astrology helps Lauren’s parts stop catastrophizing about the timeline

* A self-led Capricorn Sun will always look different from a self-led Aries Sun. What does that mean for anyone who thinks self-energy has one texture?

* Can a planet be in fall and also be fine? (Lauren says yes. KP, who has her Sun in fall in the 10th house, felt personally seen.)

* Chelsea on the IFS practitioner’s goal of not having an agenda or attachment to an outcome — and why holding the chart might actually be holding curiosity, not conclusions

* Going to grad school during your Saturn return, finding IFS, and realizing the two things you already believed had a name and a framework the whole time

* One tradition requires students to spend years watching the sky before they’re allowed to look at any data. KP wishes she’d started that way. We all kind of do.

New episodes every week. Find us, subscribe, and leave a review if something caught you somewhere unexpected: partsandcharts.substack.com.

The map didn’t heal you. But you did keep it.

Work With Us

Lauren Donelson Jones

Certified IFS Therapist & Astrologer

Lauren integrates Hellenistic astrology and IFS therapy in her private practice — five years in, and she’s been doing it long enough that most of her clients come in already wanting both. She’s also co-leading the Embodied Self Energy Retreat in Costa Rica this September: a week of group process, individual IFS work, plant medicine, and — if the timing holds — whales visible from the beach. Find her and retreat details at laurendonelsontherapy.com.

Visit Lauren’s Site

https://www.laurendonelsontherapy.com/retreat ⤵️

KP Kaszubowski

Hellenistic Astrologer & APM Educator

KP offers Hellenistic chart readings and Astro Parts Method practice sessions — one-on-one work that uses active imagination to meet the planets as inner figures. If you want to know what your chart is actually asking of you, this is where to start.

Book with KP

Astrology for Makers ↗

Chelsea Owens

LMFT & IFS Level 3 Certified

Chelsea offers individual IFS therapy sessions. She’s a licensed marriage and family therapist and art therapist with Level 3 IFS certification — rigorous, warm, and not at all self-help-y.

Book with Chelsea

Key Quotes

LAUREN DONELSON JONES

“If someone hands you a map, you’re not going to heal yourself with a map. But a map is still incredibly valuable.”

— Lauren Donelson Jones, Parts & Charts S2E3

“For me, therapy has always been spiritual.”

— Lauren Donelson Jones, Parts & Charts S2E3

KP KASZUBOWSKI

“What makes something valid is such a white supremacist European thought process. Where do we find the authority in ourselves? If it’s true that I feel this about a placement, that is the evidence.”

— KP Kaszubowski, Parts & Charts S2E3

CHELSEA OWENS

“There’s always a little bit of an underlying agenda because we’re trying to heal. But we can have all of that knowledge and still go in with pure curiosity and see where the client’s parts take us.”

— Chelsea Owens, Parts & Charts S2E3

“When I experienced IFS for the first time, I had this aha moment — I didn’t even know therapy could feel like this. Like I’m getting a psychic reading. Like I’m on a psychedelic journey.”

— Chelsea Owens, Parts & Charts S2E3

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode.

Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Opening

The question underneath this whole episode is whether you were ever actually one thing — or whether that was just something you were told, and believed, because it was easier than the alternative.

Two frameworks, one question

Chelsea came to IFS by experiencing it first — in her own therapy, without knowing what it was, before she ever read the theory. KP came to parts through the chart, through the planets, through a symbolic grammar she’d been using for years before she realized it was already describing exactly what IFS calls a system. Neither of them arrived here the same way. The episode sounds like that.

A kid showed up to every single class at juvenile hall and made himself impossible — throwing things, talking over everything, a constant disruption. Finally the teacher pulled him aside and asked why he kept coming back if he hated it so much. The kid said: I just wanted to see how long it would take for you to kick me out. Chelsea tells this story about mercy, about what parts do when they’re still waiting to be rejected. It’s the center of the episode and it lands without any editorializing at all.

KP talks about a friend who, years ago, said something about her being too loud, too sunny, too comfortable in her own vibrance — and the tone made clear that wasn’t a compliment. She’s still sitting with it. Working with Venus as a part has been giving her more room to understand what was happening in that friend’s system when they said it. Not excusing it. Just — more room.

“Once you actually come to them with understanding and inquiry and curiosity and a little mercy — instead of being like, what the f**k are you doing, stop, get out of here — that’s what they’re expecting to hear. But when you come to them with a different energy, they’re like: okay. Now I can relax.”

— Chelsea Owens

The landing

The kid kept coming back to the class he was destroying because he needed to know if someone would stay. Parts do that. They act out the thing they’re most afraid of, to find out if the answer is different this time. What IFS calls parts, what Hellenistic astrology calls the planets — both are just different languages for the same fact: you are many, the many are trying to help you, and none of them are bad. Not even the ones that bite.

What this episode is actually about

We’ve inherited a model of the mind that assumes one driver, one will, one self that’s either disciplined enough or not. IFS says that’s not how it works. Hellenistic astrology, it turns out, never thought so either. This episode is about what becomes possible when you stop trying to get your parts to be quiet and start asking them what they need.

Also in this episode

* Why Chelsea stays away from explaining IFS theory before a client experiences it — and what happens when people encounter it in the body first

* The monomind model, what it costs you, and why willpower is often just one part running a very exhausting long con on all the others

* Dick Schwartz working with people who have committed murder — and what happens when you actually ask a part why it did what it did

* Cultural and legacy burdens: the parts that are carrying something that isn’t entirely yours, maybe wasn’t even born when you were

* Spiritual bypassing, and how parts can get very enthusiastic about meditation or religion if it means the other parts finally have to shut up

* KP’s closing synthesis: the birth chart not as a verdict on who you are, but as a map of who’s in the room — and the argument for no bad charts

Before you go

If this episode gave you something to sit with, subscribe at partsandcharts.substack.com — that’s where we put the things that didn’t make it into the episode, and occasionally where we tell on ourselves between seasons.

Leave a review if you’re the kind of person who does that. One of our parts will be very grateful.

Upcoming Events

Arts, Parts & Charts | Apr 8, 2026 · 7:00 PM CT · Virtual via Zoom

Chelsea leads a guided meditation into whatever is moving in the sky right now. You make art with what comes up. Then we talk about it together. No art experience required — just a willingness to see what your parts have to say when they’re handed a pencil.

Register →

Chart Roulette | Apr 18, 2026 · 12:00 PM CT · Virtual via Zoom

Bring your chart. KP reads it live. The wheel decides who goes first — which is another way of saying: the planets decide. Fast, candid, and probably illuminating in ways you didn’t expect.

Register →

For those applying to grad programs in counseling: Chelsea Owens pulled together a deeeeeep dive into all the practical elements of this decision, for the price of a cute cafe lunch ($25) — follow this link: https://chelseawow.gumroad.com/l/bfbiau

Work With Us

KP Kaszubowski

Hellenistic astrologer · Jungian parts work educator · poet

KP offers Hellenistic chart readings that treat the birth chart as a map of the psyche’s inner figures — not a verdict, a conversation starter. She’s also currently accepting a small number of practice clients for her Astro Parts Method sessions: guided meetings with your planets as parts, using active imagination. Interest form open now.

Book a chart readingApply for a practice sessionAstrology for Makers ↗

Chelsea Owens

Licensed therapist · IFS Level 3

Chelsea works with individuals using Internal Family Systems therapy — the same framework she brings to Parts & Charts. Her sessions are warm, rigorous, and grounded in genuine clinical training. Now accepting new clients.

Book an IFS sessionChelsea’s Substack ↗

Key Quotes

“Parts are more than just something the mind is creating. Whatever they’re made up of — particles, waves, thoughts, feelings, experiences — they are coming from somewhere. They have more substance than that.”

— Chelsea Owens

“He just wanted to see how long it would take for you to kick me out.”

— Chelsea Owens, relaying a Dharma teacher’s story

“Not the chart as the person — the chart as the place of data that shows us where all the parts are and how they’re in relation to each other. There are no bad charts.”

— KP Kaszubowski

“I feel proud when I let it come out. And so when someone calls attention to that — in a place where I feel proud because it took a lot of energy to get there — yeah. That’s what’s coming up.”

— KP Kaszubowski

Credits

Music: “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020), directed by KP Kaszubowski. Performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther.Cover image: collage by Chelsea Owens.

Parts & Charts is back. Season two opens where all good things do: at the threshold.

KP developed a guided meeting script for Venus — stripped of the usual keywords, no “love,” no “relationship,” just: who is she, inside you, right now? Then she recorded it, lay down, listened, and went in.

Her Venus showed up at the Taj Mahal, in a grotto full of candlelight and the thrum of water, wrapping ropes around a jungle tree to pull it back from the river’s edge. She was muscular. Stoic. A steward. Her face was a lion — black-maned, nearly mythological. She was less concerned with KP than with keeping plastic out of sacred places. When KP asked how she could be beautiful like her, Venus didn’t say wear mascara. She said: you act too sweet. You’re not sweet. Stop that.

Chelsea’s Venus arrived in the Sierras — alpine meadow, open sky, nobody around. Regal and warrior-goddess and a little sassy, loaded with paintbrushes and flowers, dressed too formally for the landscape and completely at home in it anyway. She started looking like a beautifully rendered illustration. Then, as they deepened into just being together, she became a mirror. She looked like Chelsea. And when Chelsea noticed, Venus said: of course I look like you.

“You act too sweet. You’re not sweet. Stop acting sweet. And I was like — damn. That’s real.”

— KP Kaszubowski

This episode is about what happens when you stop using astrology as a mirror that confirms what you already think you know, and start using it as a door into actual contact. KP has Venus in Scorpio. She would have predicted a reptile. She got a black lion with environmental grievances and zero interest in flattery. Chelsea has Venus in Gemini. She would have predicted a library, a chatty friend, two of everything. She got an alpine meadow and a goddess who looked her in the eye.

Neither of them showed up the way the keywords said they would. That’s kind of the whole point.

Also in this episode

* Chelsea finished IFS Level 3 training in DC and just submitted her certification requirements

* KP’s grandfather died in January; she was there, it was a good death, and she’s grateful for that in the specific, unsentimental way she’s grateful for things

* Why relationship-building with an inner figure requires the same patience as play therapy — you don’t ask the kid hard questions for six months, you just show up and let them do whatever they want

* The difference between a hypnosis track and a guided meditation, and why KP won’t be releasing the planet scripts as standalone audio until the ethical container feels solid

* Whether psychedelics and alcohol both work by relaxing protective parts — and what it means that Neptune rules both

* What’s coming in Season 2: Arts, Parts & Charts experientials led by Chelsea; Astral 201 with Chelsea and Ashley as audience surrogates starting with the Moon; guests who are both therapists and astrologers; and more live inquiry like this

KP’s Venus is a black lion who protects the jungle from humans and finds bleach offensive. Chelsea’s Venus gave her art supplies and looked her in the eye. They used the same script, entered the same door, and landed in completely different rooms — which is not a problem with the method. It’s the method working.

The chart doesn’t tell you who you are. It introduces you to someone who already knows.

Find everything at partsandcharts.substack.com. Send us your Venus.

New episodes this season on Substack first. If you’re not subscribed, this is the moment.

Upcoming events

Chart Roulette

[Apr 18, 2026 12:00 PM CT · Virtual via Zoom]

Bring your chart. KP reads it live. The wheel decides who goes first — which is another way of saying: the planets decide. Fast, candid, and probably illuminating in ways you didn’t expect.

Register here →

Work with us

KP Kaszubowski

Hellenistic astrologer · Jungian parts work educator · poet

KP offers Hellenistic chart readings that treat the birth chart as a map of the psyche’s inner figures — not a verdict, a conversation starter. She’s also currently accepting a small number of practice clients for her Astro Parts Method sessions: guided meetings with your planets as parts, using active imagination. Interest form open now.

Book a chart reading

Apply for a practice session

Astrology for Makers ↗

Chelsea Owens

Licensed therapist · IFS Level 3 certified

Chelsea works with individuals using Internal Family Systems therapy — the same framework she brings to Parts & Charts. Her sessions are warm, rigorous, and grounded in genuine clinical training. Now accepting new clients.

Book an IFS session

Chelsea’s Substack ↗

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.

In the twentieth and final episode of Season One of Parts & Charts: The IFS and Astrology Podcast, Chelsea and KP reflect on what they’ve learned through twenty weeks of exploring the intersections of astrology, Internal Family Systems, and the inner worlds of creativity and healing.

Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

They look back on how the project began as a simple experiment and became a practice of shared discovery—testing, trusting, and tending to their own parts along the way. From astrology’s structure and symbolism to IFS’s intuitive flow, the two hosts explore what it means to live without an agenda, to “be like water,” and to let the work itself reveal its next form.

The episode closes with setting intentions for Season Two: The Magician Season, where they’ll invite more guests, deepen their experiments, and bring their integration work into practice and play.

Time Stamps & Topics

00:00 — Welcome to Episode 20 and the close of Season One02:00 — What surprised and delighted us this season04:00 — How Chelsea’s view of astrology has evolved06:00 — Playfulness, memes, and ethical astrology08:00 — How IFS continues to shape Chelsea’s worldview10:00 — Practicing therapy without agenda and trusting the client’s system13:00 — KP on the tension between structure (astrology) and flow (IFS)16:00 — The power of being in the present moment19:00 — Learning through experience vs. collecting information24:00 — Reimagining client-led astrology sessions29:00 — Learning through one’s own system and the value of embodiment33:00 — Encouragement, integration, and creative boldness37:00 — Reflections on growth and gratitude for Season One40:00 — Setting intentions for Season Two: The Magician Season

Resources Mentioned

* Internal Family Systems (IFS): a therapeutic model by Dr. Richard Schwartz exploring self-leadership through working with inner parts.

* Chiron: discussed as an archetype of wounding and healing within astrology.

* The Magician Archetype: representing integration, practice, and creative manifestation — the energy guiding Season Two.

* Tarot’s Major Arcana (The Fool → The Magician): referenced as symbolic stages of creative and spiritual development.

For those applying to grad programs in counseling:

* Chelsea Owens pulled together a deeeeeep dive into all the practical elements of this decision, for the price of a cute cafe lunch ($25) — follow this link: https://chelseawow.gumroad.com/l/bfbiau

Connect with Us

✨ Subscribe to Parts & Charts on Substack

📺 Follow on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@partsandcharts📸 Instagram @PartsAndCharts💌 Send a question or note through Substack

🎧 Share this episode with anyone exploring their own intersections of intuition, creativity, and healing.

Work 1:1 with Therapist Chelsea Owens at https://chelseaowenstherapy.com/ and schedule an astrology session with KP Kaszubowski at www.kpkaszu.com

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.

In this episode, Tarot Reader and PR founder Cory Sargeant joins Chelsea and KP for a conversation that moves from chart analysis to embodied revelation. As Cory explores her Ceres and Moon placements, she begins recognizing the lineage of care that lives through her — from her Shinnecock ancestry to the spiritual connection she still feels with her mother.

Through IFS and intuitive imagery, she meets new “motherhood parts” of herself: protective, playful, and deeply wise.

[to watch the video version, head over to Substack or YouTube. For the audio version, listen through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app.]

Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

About Our Guest

Cory Sargeant is a Tarot Reader, intuitive, and founder of Sargeant PR (https://sargeantpr.com/) and SAY IT DO IT (https://www.sayit-doit.com/). Her interest in the mystical began in childhood, growing up in a spiritually fluid home where her grandmother read astrology charts and her mother gifted her a first Tarot deck in middle school. A descendant of Shinnecock shamans, Cory’s psychic abilities first emerged through prophetic dreams, shaping a lifelong devotion to intuitive practice.

She has since conducted more than a thousand Tarot readings, offering guidance that blends clarity, compassion, and spiritual grounding. Beyond her work in intuitive arts, Cory leads a creative career in public relations and lives in Los Angeles with her husband and their dog, Rothko. She is joyfully expecting her first child.

Time Stamps & Topics

00:03 – Intro and welcome00:29 – Introducing guest Cory Sargeant03:02 – Framing today: astrology then IFS; Cory’s question about motherhood04:43 – Cory shares how she’s approaching the question about motherhood06:36 – Asteroid placements: Ceres in Cancer in the second house07:49 – Jupiter and Chiron also in the second house; meaning for material security08:19 – Focus on the second house as material/security energy for parenting10:22 – Distinction between Moon and Ceres for nurturance and mothering style11:34 – Moon–Ceres synergy in Cory’s chart (Virgo/Cancer harmony)13:17 – Chart takeaway: material security, partnership, and readiness for children15:26 – Question: What will Cory learn about herself through motherhood?16:31 – Fifth house read — Gemini rising, Mercury and Mars in fifth house (play & drive)17:48 – Interaction between Libra (fifth house) and Sagittarius (seventh house) energies18:14 – “Earth mother” / green-Tara image and grounded, elegant parenting style19:12 – Sun/self-energy in daily routine and service; satisfaction and nesting22:23 – Closing astrology section: partnership as fertile ground for childbearing39:50 – Transition inward: invitation to notice parts and body sensations (IFS work)41:45 – Guided embodiment: breath, body scan, noticing fetal movement42:02 – Noticing Odin moving; description of sensation as “a little fish”43:27 – Locating physical sensations: organs moving, poking, constriction43:51 – Imagery and color: lime green texture, lizard / gecko image emerges44:28 – Emotional material: responsibility, grief, remembering earlier pet gecko45:17 – The gecko’s presence: motherly connection and comfort47:49 – Processing fear about mortality and staying connected to deceased mother50:49 – Visualization practice: a golden thread / daily check-in ritual51:24 – Gratitude and closing of inner session; returning to the room55:58 – Personal pull: Cory draws Empress + Six of Cups + Moon reflections57:17 – How to find Cory and offerings (Instagram handle, voice-note & Zoom readings)

For those applying to grad programs in counseling:

* Chelsea Owens pulled together a deeeeeep dive into all the practical elements of this decision, for the price of a cute cafe lunch ($25) — follow this link: https://chelseawow.gumroad.com/l/bfbiau

Connect with Us

✨ Subscribe to Parts & Charts on Substack

📺 Follow on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@partsandcharts📸 Instagram @PartsAndCharts💌 Send a question or note through Substack

🎧 Share this episode with someone walking through transformation, creativity, or motherhood.

Work 1:1 with Therapist Chelsea Owens at https://chelseaowenstherapy.com/ and schedule an astrology session with KP Kaszubowski at www.kpkaszu.com

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.

In this eighteenth episode of Parts & Charts: The IFS and Astrology Podcast, Chelsea and KP explore the Libra archetype (the sign of balance, beauty, and relationship) and its connection to parts work, projection, and self-reflection.

Together, they discuss Libra’s mythic symbolism, Venus’s rulership, the spectrum between harmony and conflict avoidance, and how Libra teaches us to meet others without losing ourselves.

[to watch the video version, head over to Substack or YouTube. For the audio version, listen through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app.]

Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Resources Mentioned

* Internal Family Systems (IFS) — discussion of parts that mediate, mirror, and balance internal voices

* Venus rulership — connecting aesthetics and relational skill

* Aries–Libra axis — polarity of assertion and harmony

* Ritual practices — embodying balance through beauty, symmetry, and choice

For those applying to grad programs in counseling:

* Chelsea Owens pulled together a deeeeeep dive into all the practical elements of this decision, for the price of a cute cafe lunch ($25) — follow this link: https://chelseawow.gumroad.com/l/bfbiau

Connect with Us

✨ Subscribe to Parts & Charts on Substack

📺 Follow on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@partsandcharts

📸 Instagram @PartsAndCharts💌 Send a question or note through Substack

🎧 Share this episode with someone who’s learning how to balance honesty, beauty, and connection.

Work 1:1 with Therapist Chelsea Owens at https://chelseaowenstherapy.com/ and schedule an astrology session with KP Kaszubowski at www.kpkaszu.com

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.

In this seventeenth episode of Parts & Charts: The IFS and Astrology Podcast, Chelsea and KP dive into the soul of friendship — from the IFS parts that crave connection to the astrological placements that reveal how we bond, detach, and heal through friendship.

Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

They explore Mercury’s and Venus’s friendship archetypes, Saturn’s lessons in boundaries and endurance, and the ways we unconsciously attract both safety and adventure in our closest relationships.

[to watch the video version, head over to Substack or YouTube. For the audio version, listen through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app.]

Time Stamps & Topics

00:00 – Opening reflections on friendship through the lens of IFS and astrology00:45 – Mercury and Venus as friendship archetypes: communication vs. mirroring03:17 – “The people who have endured with you over time are your gold friends.” – KP05:00 – Chelsea confesses: “I need to come clean and say that I was in a sorority.”07:05 – Lifelong friendship patterns: “I’ve always had to have a best friend.” – Chelsea08:57 – Reading Chelsea’s chart: Venus in Gemini in the 11th house, Jupiter in Aquarius in the 7th10:59 – Best friend signatures in astrology: Sagittarius and Pisces energy13:12 – “I know that if I show up that way, I’ll attract more of that.” – Chelsea17:05 – Boundaries and safety in connection: “I want to know where people stand.” – Chelsea18:03 – “We’re looking for the other in the chart — the friend in the chart — but it’s also us as the friend.” – KP20:05 – When friendships end: grief, loss, and identity29:00 – “I’ve been trying to figure out friendship for so long, and there’s just not a lot written about it.” – Chelsea30:34 – “Friendship makes your life rich. If you don’t have a certain type of friendship, your life feels cold.” – KP34:00 – “What’s your friend element? That’s the trailhead.” – KP35:01 – The story of how KP and Chelsea met through a tarot book club36:49 – “I am a ride-or-die type of person. I want friendships to last forever.” – KP37:50 – “You have such a balance of brilliant and goof.” – Chelsea43:00 – The pain of friend breakups: self-blame and rumination44:53 – “Don’t look at your chart anymore if it’s making you anxious.” – KP45:48 – Saturn’s role in authentic friendship: “Discarding something to go in the right direction.” – KP

Resources Mentioned

* Freedom from Your Inner Critic by Jay Early & Bonnie Weiss — referenced in the previous episode

* Internal Family Systems (IFS) — used to explore parts around friendship, attachment, and boundaries

* Astrological Houses 3, 7, and 11 — as friendship houses representing communication, bonding, and community

* Mercury & Venus Archetypes — two modes of friendship connection

* Saturn Transits — friendship lessons in endurance and authenticity

* Mars Transits — times of conflict or cutting away

For those applying to grad programs in counseling:

Chelsea Owens pulled together a deeeeeep dive into all the practical elements of this decision, for the price of a cute cafe lunch ($25) — follow this link: https://chelseawow.gumroad.com/l/bfbiau

Connect with Us

✨ Subscribe to Parts & Charts on Substack📺 Follow on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@partsandcharts

📸 Instagram @PartsAndCharts💌 Send a question or note through Substack

🎧 Share this episode with someone who’s ever grieved a friendship or found their soul friend through unexpected means.

Work 1:1 with Therapist Chelsea Owens at https://chelseaowenstherapy.com/ and schedule an astrology session with KP Kaszubowski at www.kpkaszu.com

Credits:

Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski - performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther

The cover image is a collage by Chelsea Owens.