Where we sit down with Pat Stuart to talk providing clarity via consequences, where Pat and Lauren differ in who they will teach about the use of aversives, and management & avoidance vs training & exposure.

Also, what inherently saves Lauren from doing dumb things, the fear of telling people who you're learning from, and the perils of projecting your beliefs of what people will do with aversives onto others.

Pat's Serious Dog Business

⁠⁠⁠Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email ⁠[email protected]⁠