patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor Theologian

Recently Villanova hosted an event titled, The End of Religion. Greg Horton believes the end of Religion reporting by newspapers like The Dallas Morning News and the Orlando Sentinel, represent a step backwards in getting a handle on important news, local and global.

An Idealist = Preacher, Teacher, and Curmudgeon

Who is Greg Horton? He is a friend. When I first met Greg he was involved in a fledgling emerging church meeting at First Baptist Church, OKC. Over time he moved from there to work with another group at First Nazarene, OKC until he finally left the building. That was in 2006-7.

Leaving the building is euphemism for leaving the faith, the Christian Faith. Despite our different trajectories, I just began my 22nd year as pastor of the same local congregation in Oklahoma, we continue to remain good friends. And, here is an interesting tidbit: Greg is as interested in Religion today as he was when he pastored. Though, obviously, his vantage point has changed.

Recently I asked Greg to join me for a podcast on Religion Reporting. For many years Greg has been a freelance writer covering stories with a religion angle. We have discussed a number of stories over the years. Here is a recent story Greg wrote.

Today Greg describes himself to his students as an Idealist. This, he says, makes him sometimes sound like a preacher, sometimes a teacher, and sometimes a curmudgeon.

Curiously, Greg believes Religion may make the world a better place. Emphasis on the may.

Choosing Ignorance

Facebook feeds, unless they are maintained with a harsh rigor, reveal many among us choose ignorance. We share stories that are often not well researched, contain terrible arguments, and do little more than confirm our own biases. Who among you have NOT received a forwarded email or linked post only to discover barely one sentence of truth? My friend Marty’s interview for the podcast took time to discuss how click baiting works.

And, it does work. It simply is not interested in the truth.

The current election cycle inspired this podcast, or my interest in hosting Greg. Religion has already played a role in reporting and even in questions asked at the first GOP debate. Understanding how Religion works in public discourse, knowing the differences between Religions, and learning the nuances between expressions within a given Religion, could help us all avoid ignorance.

Any choice to continue to believe what is odiously in error is to choose ignorance.

Help with Arguments

“We are going to have an argument.” The question is what kind of argument. Here we are not talking about arguments over which NBA team to support. Of course you pull for the Thunder!

Support for the Thunder in that last sentence is absent an argument as to why one should do so. Maybe you noticed it. Or, maybe you believe me enough an authority to see an embedded argument. Horton believes we would be helped by not just learning to make a good argument but also spotting the fallacies that expose a bad argument.

Greg makes this an important feature for reporting on stories with a Religion angle. Though he may have left the building, he works hard to make a good argument for the way Religion may play a role in helping ...

For the better part of ten years we traveled I-35 between Dallas and Oklahoma City. It would be hard to underestimate the number of times we took that route that traffic was not slowed by an accident. Whether traveling north or south we often reveled in our success at not being a victim of a fender bender. But, invariably we, along with evidently every other road warrior, appeared very interested in whatever failure caused the accident in the other direction. Welcome to flawed formation.

Rubbernecking Does Not Produce Fruit, Only Frustration

Slowing to observe a wreck in the opposite direction does not equal concern for those involved. It simply illustrates our penchant to know what is wrong with them. The result of this sort of practice is broad frustration. That is, once the first driver slows to gawk, others will. Eventually, everyone in that long line of slow moving traffic is frustrated having no idea why things are moving as they are.

If Christian spiritual formation creates more people interested in the well-being of others, then one must spend some time reflecting on his or her practices, not on the failures of others. Slowing to watch the consequences of the unfortunate decisions of others does not imply an interest to help. Instead, it generally results in, “Whew, glad that was not me.”

What Happens When It Is You?

Maybe the experience you suffer is not the consequence of a poor decision. It could as easily be simply a matter of life. Consider it the other reason traffic slows between Dallas and OKC: Road Construction. Miles and miles of road construction may be found along I-35 between OKC and Dallas. That is life.

When it happens to you several things come to mind. Should I take an early exit and find another route? Is patience really a virtue? How should I respond to this unexpected event?

Life happens and it is far better to reflect on our practices. Ask good questions.

Examen

KirsAnne Swartley is the Pastor for the Missional Journey at Doylestown Mennonite Church in Doylestown, PA. I met KrisAnne a number of years ago when she was working on her Mdiv at Biblical Seminary. Today KrisAnne lives out her calling leading practices for spiritual formation and transformation.

Listen in and I think you will see how her theology is practical and rooted in her Christian experience in the Mennonite Tradition where they take seriously the notion that Christians may live out the way of Jesus in the world today. You will hear KirsAnne describe what it means to be a Mennonite Christian.

What’s more, and more to the aim of the Interview, you will hear KrisAnne describe the layered work of reconciliation and how we might benefit from a rhythm of practice-reflection-practice-reflection. Don’t miss here description of the Examen and the ways in which we may benefit from the practices of other Christian Traditions appropriated in our own experience of the faith.

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Where will be get our news and culture commentary now that Jon Stewart left the Daily Show and Stephen Colbert is moving to fill Letterman’s spot? Reading the Twitterverse one gets the feeling many will feel like the description on the Hebrew Scriptures, “and the word of the Lord was rare.”

Stewarting, An End Coming?

Oh wait. Since March viewers and fans have known that Trevor Noah will sit at the Daily Show Desk. Will that mean an end to Stewarting? What is Stewarting?

The same question filled my mind when Natalie mentioned it to me. Rather than engage in the practice, she pointed me to the place where she read about the practice.

I’m gonna call this Stewarting. When White ppl need White interpretation of stuff I said using their same language. (Yes, shade to Jon.)

— Trudy (@thetrudz) July 3, 2015

One recent illustration came when many in the Southern Baptist Convention agreed with Russell Moore, President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the SBC, called for the removal of the Confederate Flag. Many African-Americans have been calling for an end to the symbol of slavery and oppression under the guise of States’ Rights. Hearing from Russell Moore carried more weight with the largely white denomination than calls by those of Color.

It would be dreaming to think the practice @thetrudz describes as Stewarting will come to an end. What will be different is the source. Let’s see how many Noah videos go viral spurred by that same Anglo audience.

It’s All About the Platform

Stewarting illustrates the way access works. Something profound and insightful might arise from the margins, from those not controlling the discourse. No one notices. When the same thoughts reach those with a platform it is as if the insight is now original.

Natalie appreciates Scot McKnight for giving space to women on his ever popular blog.

Her point is but one piece of advice for those interested in avoiding Stewarting others/Others. Intentionally follow the blogs of a diverse group of people, follow those not like you on Twitter, look for those with a different social and ethnic experience to follow of Facebook, even fried them. Then, listen.

Avoid Derailing the Subject by Honoring Intersections

Another subject to which I had to become familiar in my conversation with Natalie was derailment. My best approximation is shifting the subject. Here is a Bingo Card created to illustrate all the ways derailment is practiced.

 

How many times have you engaged a conversation only to experience derailment? Pay attention to how you may often shift the subject. We might get further in our work together on difficult subjects if we would stop derailing others/Others.

Theology Is Not Just for Professionals

Why interview Natalie? Listen and I think you will understand.

Who will win the first GOP debate lottery? We will know soon. The Donald is sure to be there as he continues to poll in the lead all the while holding a mirror up to the political condition in America.

The Mirror of the Extreme

Today Russell Moore, President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the SBC, will interview Jeb Bush and host a video interview with Marco Rubio. Talk about holding up a mirror. One wonders how this will play. I am betting quite well.

What would happen if we stopped long enough to survey fringe movements and discovered the way we talk about a given subject may actually foster said extreme? How would this work if we surveyed an extreme movement that is part of American Evangelical Christianity? What would we see in the mirror?

Privatized Faith, Privatized Families

What would happen if we learned that the phenomenon of the Nones included an ideology that shunned community? We regularly read of those disenfranchised by modern forms of church. What if we in the midst of all those numbers and reports someone decided to inquire of those whose vision of church grew so narrow they opted for something more private, their families?

Low Church/Free Church streams within Christianity may inadvertently lay the groundwork of a move to Family Church. Think about it. The ever independent ethos that pervades American culture, and adopted by Christians who tend to splinter over so many secondary things, may actually hold more a key than the failure of good music and good preaching.

Someone needs to take up that study. Ed Stetzer?

Complementarity Without Hierarchy

Gender issues remain at the forefront of Christian practice, or not. Some view the matter as settled. Others long for a move past patriarchy that seems rooted in another day, if not an intentional move to shutter the context of certain biblical passages.

Those who oppose egalitarian visions of gender roles in the church fear an androgynous church. Everyone is Pat. However, what if the matter were hierarchy and not difference?

Welcome Emily

This week on the podcast I am glad to host Emily Hunter McGowin. Emily just turned in her PhD dissertation to the University of Dayton. Her interest led her to research the Quiverfull movement. The object is not to engender scorn and derision but to unearth the practices of those committed to this small Evangelical Christian movement. Her interest is understanding what comprises the faith practices of the women involved in the movement.

Take some time to listen to her discoveries and observations. We all may take a second look at those on the fringe we mark off as wacky. We may end up seeing ourselves in the extreme.

Subscribe to the podcast in the right sidebar. Choose iTunes or Stitcher. If you like what you hear, leave a review.

Thanks for reading. Don’t forget to subscribe to email alerts at the top of the sidebar. 

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Many perceive from both real stories and caricatures that Southern Baptists do not play well with others. And by others I mean those who do not belong to their tribe, those not affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention.

The Butt of the Jokes

Growing up my pastor told me there were few groups with whom I should study the Bible outside of the SBC. The subject came up after I had been invited to a Bible Study with a friend but I did not know the pastor or his background.

Other groups, other Christian denominations, tended to be the butt of jokes at denominational gatherings.  They seemed harmless. Maybe it was a remark about another’s method of baptism. Or, it could how another group’s polity differed from our own. Even still it might be, believe it or not, the narrowness of another group.

Maybe you have heard the one about the person who died and went to Heaven. St. Peter was showing the newbie around the place. It was filled with large rooms each with a door and a label. It seems every Christian denomination had a room for their group. Then when passing the door labeled [fill in your favorite] St. Peter said, “Shhh, quiet. They think they are the only ones here.”

Almost fifteen years ago I attended a National Pastors Conference not hosted by my denomination. During the pre-session activities announcements and such ran on a couple of large screens. Waiting on the session to begin I noticed one of the bits of humor mixed in with those announcements. I felt uneasy when I realized Southern Baptists, my tribe, were the butt of the joke. Touché.

Since that event, I intentionally developed friendships outside of my denomination. Relationships tend to humanize those we have caricatured. Shattering stereotypes ought to be a regular practice for Christian people. After all if we pursue the truth then laziness should not be the goal.

How Close?

My pastor’s great fear turned on the possibilities for corruption, for being tempted to consider truth elsewhere. This was the 1970’s. The Charismatic Movement had affected the Dallas Baptist Association. Churches that had dabbled with the Third Wave had been refused a place at the denominational meeting. What would happen to our young Baptists? They must be protected.

My story does not take a turn for that particular edge. But, the question that gets raised is how do we work out a better sense of unity when we find out our stereotypes are not true, caricatures miss widely, and we learn we really like people not like ourselves. What shape does unity take when Christians disagree over certain subjects – doctrine and praxis? What guidelines might a person consider when determining a level of cooperation?

Southern Baptist Christians are not alone when considering how beliefs are held and how practices may be shared. Every arena in our culture comes with human groupings. These are based on some system that contends where the lines are and how to navigate relationships with other like groups. The questions of how close is one with a wider reach than simply denominational relationships.

Brick Walls and Picket Fences

This week I interview Dave Miller. Dave is Senior Pastor of the Southern Hills Baptist Church in Sioux City, Iowa. He once served as the 2nd Vice-President of the Southern Baptist Convention. Dave also moderates SBC Voices, a hybrid blog-forum website centered around issues current in the Southern Baptists Convention, cultural shifts, and current events as seen through the lens of its various contributors and commenters.

Recently Dave had his book,

Seniors receiving assistance from the U.S. Government compare to animals in the wild. Stop feeding the animals, as the analogy goes, and you won’t have dependent human beings. Thank you, Oklahoma State GOP.

Oklahoma State GOP Trumps Poverty

Late yesterday my friend, and recent podcast interview, Ryan Abernathy tagged me in a FB thread. He, formerly a  registered Republican now an Independent, could not believe the Oklahoma State GOP posted the following,

Would this not be a great illustration where the State GOP (Donald) Trumps poverty? It works like this. Continue to promote a myth because it plays to the manipulation of the Electorate. Based on an incredibly small percentage of abuse cases across a system one makes a sweeping generalization, a logical fallacy for those who care, and in the process misses one group most overlooked when the conversation turns to poverty.

Yes, Grandparents Receive Assistance

In  a recent two part series, Facts About Poverty in America, Ryan Abernathy notes,

Today, I want to focus on seniors. In part 2, we will look more closely at the working poor and the children affected by their plight. I start with seniors because they are the most likely to be overlooked when politicians and pundits denounce the recipients of government assistance (commonly called SNAP, but also including, TANF, WIC, and CSFB – the government will acronym you to death.)

Reading the piece further reveals the government assists about 4 million seniors a month. Abernathy notes, “These are our sons and daughters and our grandparents and great-grandparents. If they are nor ours, they are someones.”

Continuing to mislead to inflame the passions of individualism and foment animosity toward a group of people in need, is worse than deception.

People Not On Poverty Cheat the Government More Than Those On Welfare

We do not call it that, but it is. According to statistics, the rate of abuse among those receiving SNAP, the old Food Stamps, is 1.3%. Read that one more time. Abernathy provides a better illustration. That is $.01, or one penny, per dollar.

White collar abuse refers to their method as loopholes and tax advantages. Others refer to it as off-shore accounts. Corporatists avoid taxes like Superman and kryptonite. The fear is that one less million out of hundreds would render one helpless.

Some corporations and businesses that receive credit for charitable donations by providing food by weight do not have to account for the food’s condition when it reaches the receiving entity. That means, I can donate food knowing it will be bad before it arrives but I get to take a tax credit for my contribution. The giver gets the benefit. The agency fills its dumpsters.

Churches and Their Communities

If you took time to read Abernathy’s post, you would be discomfited by the Scriptural references to the poor. It is hard to escape that the Scripture point out that God is on the side of the poor and needy. If you read past those references, and subscribe to the Bible as your authority, go back and read them again.

Recently an Op-Ed piece made Time magazine. The author called for an end to the tax exempt status for churches. His premise was that churches no longer provide value to their communities and so the handshake with the government to do so in lieu of being taxed should now be withdrawn. I think he overstates his case and takes liberties with only a few anecdotal illustrations to issue his call, like those who think SNAP is awash in abuse.

Too many who hide behind their computer screens and do not get out into communities where churches who struggle,

Gary Webb lived like a leper, ostracized by the very community of investigative story seekers of which he was apart now gutted by Corporatist interests. He was The Pariah. That was nineteen years ago. Little did he know his story would pave the way for Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, no less pariahs in  their own right.

The Gut Punch

Sometimes an event hits you with such force you feel it all over. Father Richard Rohr describes the Reformer in the Enneagram as taking in an injustice as a full-body blow. You feel it all the way down.

Marty Duren described his reading the story of Gary Webb and the vividness conveyed he had just been sucker punched. The family gathered to watch the Iran-Contra Hearings with a view to their hero, Oliver North. Now all these years later it seems as though such loyalty to the conservative political mythos serves more as warning than viewed forlornly.

The Fourth Estate

Late last Fall, of 2015, several friends encouraged Marty to find his muse. In fits and starts he re-imagined his voice in the reprising blog world. An emerging interest combined with an quest for truth resulted in a re-branded blog tagline, Kingdom in the Midst, and the planning of a new podcast, The Fourth Estate.

Recently Marty struck a balance with posts that sent his traffic soaring requiring a hosting adjustment. One such post ignited the fire that has yet to really let up.

Earlier this year, Marty began podcasting. He chose for his title, The Fourth Estate Podcast. It is his podcast that serves as the impetus for this week’s interview. One key interest for Marty is getting at the news. Much of what passes for news, no matter the source, comes filtered through Corporatists lens. The consequence is more soundbite news stories that play to an agenda laden set of talking points.

We discuss how Marty’s gut punch met his desire to pursue truth in the news.

Literacy Matters

Rather than simply rail about the ways our Facebook feeds us a steady diet based an algorithm based on same-same, Marty suggests reading long form pieces with well-developed arguments that trace to original sources. It takes work, but literacy matters.

Along the way we interject some interesting parallels, angles, for Christians who often get caught up sharing some of the most blatantly misleading and inaccurate stories.

Another Voice and Writer to Add To Your Regular Mix

Marty and I met years ago. Or, maybe it was in another life, not literally but figuratively. It is hard to say. What is clear is we hit it off quite well and certainly share common interests. Rather than suggest this is nothing more than the formation of a mutual admiration society via podcasting and blogging, though it would qualify as such, the aim here is to provide a resource for readers here at The Edge of the Inside to listen in to Marty’s podcast as a voice on the edge.

What edge? The way news-telling gets itself done today transcends ideological boundaries of the right and left. News sources from the Left and Right tell it less than straight and when it is slant it bears no resemblance to what either Emily Dickinson or Eugene Peterson had in mind.

Healthy conversation and debate suffers from the 24/7 news cycle. The shooting of the Charleston 9 stirred deep conversations about the racial history in the United States. While the conversations and fallout continue, several SCOTUS decisions threaten(ed) to move the important discussions about racial issues to the back burner. Except, black churches are burning.

Whose History?

During a number of the current debates history becomes the pawn in service to the chosen ideological king. David Fitch takes a look at how the reference to this or that side of history as being right is more subjective than objective. He goes so far to suggest it may be that if we depend on the government to dictate the right or wrong side of history we may be giving into a power structure that in the end harms more than helps.

Whose Independence?

Heading into Independence Day weekend the matter of freedoms and rights continues to occupy all of us. We have been fooled into believing the Women’s Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement granted equal freedoms to women and to blacks without addressing the way the systems retained the vestiges of discriminatory practices. It is this point that often evades us. Consider it a matter that lies beneath and that sound bite news does little to help us.

Is There a Voice in the SBC?

I met Alan Cross online almost ten years ago. We met in person not long after at an Annual Meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention in Greensboro. The following year we shared a room in San Antonio for another SBC Annual Meeting. A couple of years ago we did the same for the Annual Meeting in New Orleans. Over the years we have had more than our share of conversations talking through issues related to pastoring, our denomination, and the culture in which we find ourselves.

Alan represents of the voices on the edge of the conversations about race in the SBC. In fact, as I understand it, Thom Rainer, President of the Lifeway, remarked about Alan’s work in comments made to the messengers at the Annual Meeting just last month.

There is a place on the edge of the inside for Alan. And, that means there is reason to interview him here.

Recently Alan wrote a blog post that was re-posted at SBC Voices. The piece garnered more than 175 comments. Some of them actually reveal how much work is yet to be done even in our own denomination. His post,

My friend Lance Ford posted to Facebook,

White Pastors: It’s Thursday. Are you willing to set your long ago planned sermon series on the shelf and consider what the Lord would have you say to your church in light of the yet-another unspeakable crime against our black siblings?

For pastors of any color, Sunday is always coming.

On this edition of Thoughts from the Edge, I offer some ways to think about the murders in South Carolina in light of the David and Goliath story. One wonders if we might capture the spirit of the story by thinking of Goliath in terms of power, the way the story gets told by power. I am the best, the strongest, the inevitable victor. Much of the discussion and analysis of the event that stirred us deeply turns on issues of hate, terrorism, and most importantly race.

How is it that after all human advancements we still have subgroups that tout the mantra of the white Southerners, “You rape our women and are taking over the world?” And, that this is so entrenched in a 21-year old. Answers will abound but will better questions emerge than who were his parents, where did he live, and so on?

After a quick suggestion related to the Goliath and David story, I make some brief connections to the Psalm 9 passage for the Church/churches. It will require us to intentionally get to the other side and do so with a proper display of character and service. (Mark 4 and 2 Corinthians.)

Maybe you will have some additional, constructive, thoughts along the way. Offer them in the comments and let’s have a discussion on the way forward.

There are a couple of notable mentions in the podcast. One was to Marty Duren who wrote a solid piece on the manner of our assertions, our truth telling. He writes,

Today, depending on who is doing the talking, the emphasis may be on grace, or it may be on truth. It is infrequently both. Sometimes one is leveraged against the other: “Well, we can show them grace, but we gotta tell’em the truth, too!” Similarly, “speak the truth in love,” leans heavily on the “speak the truth” part as if we should not love people just the same. “Speak” morphs crudely into “yell” more often than need be, and no one likes to be yelled at. When we show grace and truth, however, we display Jesus.

Another is to a Facebook post by my friend, Jimmy Doyle. He posted,

 

Jimmy Doyle

1 hr · Edited ·

My thoughts on the feeling I have that as a nation we are moving backwards in terms of race relations:

1) A sense of moving backwards is at least related to a sense that we have taken some steps forward in our past;

2) Point 1 gives me the hope we can move forward again;

3) Freedom and equality require diligence of thought and action, and complacency based upon previous success (real or imagined) will not result simply in lack of progress but in regression.

4) I am aware that my perspective of all this is not the same as millions of Americans of color for whom my sense of “moving backwards” is merely a naive ignorance of the unchanging realities in which they have lived their whole lives.

Take a listen and let’s talk about the issues raised here.

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Human beings look for meaning behind every event and experience. Maybe not all look for meaning, but many do. The Church continues to grapple with how to talk or describe the meaning of the death and resurrection of Jesus. That is not likely to change.

In this week’s podcast we take up the Season of Easter and give it a theme, Resurrection Means? Certainly we may explore some of the ways the Church/church has understood the atonement putting it in Creeds and Confessions. More importantly we will consider what meaning looks like in community. How does a Christian community witness to the death and resurrection of Jesus?

Our beginning was to consider nothing final. Resurrection at least means whatever human beings consider final is up for re-evaluation and possibility. Without a performative community, one where the life if Jesus is re-enacted, we face an uphill battle when only employing our best arguments and rhetoric.

One has to think Acts 4 may be about that.

Take a listen. Give it some thought. Post you thoughts. Ask your questions. Let’s explore this together.

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