Fallen present in episode 9. Rookiee: so Chris, thank you for creating our intro music. You are not a boy lover, right? Chris: no, I am open-minded up to a point. The common perception is the term boy lover is equivalent to rapist. Rookiee: why do you think that is? Chris: because society is cruel and stereotypes everything. Fallen: they may as well say that every straight guy will rape a woman, or every gay guy will rape a man. Rookiee: you live in Holland, right? Chris: no, I go back and forth. I was born in Holland, and moved to the US when I was 11 years old. (03:37 to 07:37)

Rookiee: give us an idea of the ideologies in your home country. Chris: certain drugs are legal there, but not over here. If you forbid something someone wants, then they will find ways to get it. Sorry, I am a shy person who gets nervous when talking. Rookiee: don’t apologise; you are doing just fine. You seem to be saying pot is bad, am I right? Chris: personally yes, I do, but if someone wants to get high, then no reason why they shouldn’t. Rookiee: do you drink? Chris: yes. Rookiee: is alcohol a drug? Chris: yes. Rookiee: in the case of cigarettes, nicotine triggers dependency. The point is: one is legal, the other is not. Chris: while walking up a flight of stairs to the school auditorium, I got hassled by someone trying to give me pot. I said: no, I don’t want it. They said: aw c’mon you sissy girl. I said: get away from me. Rookiee: would that happen in Holland? Chris: no, because pot is legal. Rookiee: well there you go then. (07:38 to 14:37)

Rookiee: if someone is born into something, they will assume it is natural. Chris: America is the only country that circumcises its babies. Fallen: rather, any country with a sizeable Jewish population. Rookiee: but I am Christian. Chris: I am not circumcised. Rookiee: you can divulge that fact, because you belong to the gay community. We on the other hand are pursued by people with axes, so we always have to worry about what we say. Fallen: here circumcision is normal because everyone does it, plus you want your kid to look like the other kids in the locker room. Rookiee: my mom wanted me to be circumcised because it is more hygienic, which is not true because smegma is anti-bacterial. Chris: why does America have to go against the world? No-one in Europe is circumcised. I think circumcision is a very retarded thing to do. It is mutilation, and the poor babies are in no position to object. Rookiee: Howard from episode 9 said it’s fine to chop off the end of a baby’s penis, but if you stroke it you go to jail. (15:55 to 20:59)

Rookiee: free speech tv is a liberal channel where different organisations can submit their content. One topic was: ‘It’s elementary, a gay issue.’ An elementary school in New York or Boston had on their curriculum: to teach tolerance and acceptance of homosexuals. 7yo and 8yo kids airing their views on the topic appeared to be speaking from the heart, essentially saying that being gay is no big deal. Fallen: it would appear these kids have not yet been indoctrinated. (21:00 to 23:56)

Chris: the theme of the movie Lord of the Flies depicts humans born into a world as innocents, but as they grow older, they become indoctrinated by society. Rookiee: my thought is that humans are born neutral; they become either good or bad depending on their environment and what society teaches them. Historically, children were assumed to be born evil, and needed to be moulded into goodness and obedience. Nowadays, the notion is children are born innocent, and innocence needs to be preserved for as long as possible. (23:57 to 26:56)

Rookie: do you know the game black and white? You begin neutral, and you can either be a good god or a bad god. There are little humans living on an island, and you can either do good things for them or bad things for them. Either way, they end up worshiping you, but will they fear you or love you? Chris: OK, having heard that, I will now change my original opinion. Fallen: most people in the US will never be willing to consider an alternative viewpoint, let alone agree with it. Rookiee: the war against paedophilia is similar to the war on drugs. These wars endure and escalate, because they are profitable to those who benefit financially from them. In the former case, it will get to the point where you will automatically be assigned criminal status if you are found to have a paedosexuality. (26:57 to 31:51)

Rookiee: the term kid is indoctrinating people into thinking that someone who is younger than you is less valuable as a citizen. Chris: and you owe respect to the person who is older than you. It boils down to those who are younger are stupider because they haven’t experienced something yet. Fallen: personally, I don’t use it in a derogatory manner. Douglas Adams quotes: everything that is already in the world is normal. Anything that gets invented before you are 30 years old is incredibly exciting and creative, and with luck you can make a career out of it. Everything invented after you are 30 years old, is against the natural order of things, and the beginning of the end of civilisation as we know it. In other words, as we grow older, new things become bad things. Fallen: agree. (35:15 to 38:17)

Chris: what do you think about kids who like to pose and take pictures? Fallen: for me it is questionable because I do not know what their situation is. Rookiee: it depends on the individual, and how much they can control their own destiny. If they have control, it doesn’t matter what they do. Why is it considered bad? Fallen: I guess it is because it is assumed people are forcing them to do that. Rookiee: it is because society feels kids do not have the biological, social, or mental ability to do it yet. Fallen: when I was a kid I said to hell with them, and went ahead and did it anyway. I just tried harder not to get caught. Rookie: your reality was you knew you had the ability to do it. Fallen: they didn’t say anything, because they didn’t know. Rookiee: but you got caught with another boy when you were 13 years old. Fallen: they said you shouldn’t do that. I was pissed off because I got busted, and scared because I didn’t know what would happen to me as a result. Chris: did you take any positives from it. Fallen: yes, I loved it! (38:18 to 43:44)

Rookiee: the age at which people have the ability to make a decision to have sex is falling because of technology. Chris: yes, I totally agree. Rookiee: because of technology, people are becoming smarter, more intelligent, socially independent, mentally developed. Fallen: agreed. (43:45 to 44:40)

Rookiee: what, if any, major differences are there between being gay and being a paedophile? Chris: a paedophile is attracted to boys younger than 18 years old. Rookiee: so a paedophile could be a 19yo attracted to a 17yo. Chris: numerical age issue doesn’t exist for those two people. Fallen: say I am a 21yo and I have a friend who is 15yo. Rookiee: the definition of boylover is different depending on who you ask, which culture that person comes from, how big the age gap is. Fallen: the age gap is the difference. Rookiee: does the child have the right to have sex? Fallen: no. Rookie: does a 12yo have the right to drive a car? Chris: no. Rookiee: doe the child have the right to masturbate? Chris: yes. Rookiee: does the child have the right to kill an animal? Chris: depends on the situation. On a farm it would be acceptable. Rookiee: so we return to the fact that it is not the age. It is what society considers appropriate for a given age undertaking a certain activity. Is a paedophile’s glass half full or half empty? (47:12 to 57:39)