Mike: born and raised in California during the 1950s and 1960s when things were a lot different. I am a freelance journalist. Rookiee: how was it back then? Mike: I remember some of my adventures aged 12 or 13, and not being so hushed up as now. (05:08 to 08:05)

Chris: did child porn exist back then? Mike: yes, during the 1960s. Bookshops sold magazines with erotic pictures of teen boys. I wrote for ‘Gay Boy’ during the 1970s. Chris: another one from that time was Piccolo. Mike: I don’t know that one. I don’t see anything wrong with the older magazines. They were less erotic than those today. Now, things have gone too far. Back then it was only boys and no adults. Rookiee: describe the levels of eroticism back then. Mike: you would see for example, a boy of 16 and a boy of 12 naked and sucking each other. Rookiee: you would not see that today in the US. Chris: that is a result of the oppression across society. Mike: I agree. (08:06 to 14:59)

Rookiee: aged 13, I had an erotic book from the 1970s. That was my security blanket. The book mentioned legal struggles in printing erotic stories. By the late 1990s, online bulletin boards had oodles of erotic literature, a goldmine for a horny teen. What is the legal situation for distributing erotic literature now? Mike: it is becoming restrictive. As a journalist, I have certain rights to support my art. Laws are ill-defined around the internet due to the international dimension. (15:00 to 18:41)

Chris: Roookie told me if you are a 15yo and take a sexual picture of yourself and the police get to know, you are screwed. Rookiee: one can be charged with the production and distribution of child pornography. Even if you are a 17.9yo, the same applies. What if a 15yo wants to see pictures of other 15yo boys? Mike: it is illegal. Rookiee: is it immoral for a 15yo? Mike: no. Rookiee: if a 10yo grabs his parent’s camera and takes a photo. He has no shame of it. Yet they tell him it is a bad thing to have done. Mike: the court would say he is not capable of making decisions for himself. I have chaperoned dance classes for kids, and they are fully capable. If a parent tells you different, they don’t know what they are talking about. The kids trust me and confide in me, and tell me lots. Chris: I know 11 year olds who keep touching themselves. Mike: I see nothing wrong with that. (18:42 to 23:59)

Chris: in the year 2035, BLs are socially accepted, not totally, but like gays today. Wouldn’t sexually transmitted diseases become an epidemic? Rookiee: increase awareness through sex education. It would be the same as today because kids are having sex today, but they would be better informed. (23:59 to 26:55)

Rookiee: how do child lovers combat discrimination spewed out daily via the media? Mike: society’s perception is that the community contain law-breakers, so negativity gets published because it sells. Rookiee: some say those laws are unjust and the media portray perpetrators as monsters, when in reality, it was consensual sex. Mike: often, the story and the headline differ because different people are involved; the editor writes the headline. I might spend an hour discussing the full story, but just thirty seconds to read it. (26:56 to 32:03)

Rookiee: whatever happened to journalistic integrity when the full story is never told? Mike: most papers do both sides of the story. Most stories I have seen are fair as I have read them. I wrote to the producers of the Law and Order tv series, about the bias against paedophiles on their shows. They wrote back admitting to this bias, but added this is what the public wants to see. I replied saying, no, this is not what the public wants to see. (32:04 to 37:16)

Mike: when I read something or watch tv, I separate my personal feelings. Rookie: like a doctor? Mike: yes. Rookiee: when I write, I add personal opinion. Mike: if I wrote about a paedophilia case, I would relay the news without crucifying, unless they had hurt someone. Rookiee talks about his Wikipedia contribution experience discussed in ep 7. How can news stories be objective in such a biased media environment? Mike: there is much biased coverage out there. I try to be objective. I also avoid criticising other writers, because doing that can come back to haunt you. I am more concerned in doing what I do well. (40:08 to 46:52)

Rookie: in the April fool’s pedologue podcast, World Daily News accused me of mocking the FBI. In fact, I discussed FBI infiltration in a show. I later mocked tv evangelists for claiming they were unbiased and telling us everything they said was God’s word. How can the news industry be allowed to print distorted untruthful accounts? Where is journalistic integrity? They didn’t bother to contact me. Mike: I know fellow journalists who are disillusioned and leaving media. Journalists hide behind freedom of speech. High turnovers of staff lacking journalism qualifications, doesn’t help. (46:53 to 49:26)

Rookie: stories about sex with minors are automatically molestation, which may or may not be the case. How can we combat that? Mike: the press is guilty of finding a person guilty before a verdict is given. Rookiee: has there ever been journalistic integrity? Has it always been mob mentality? Mike: yes. I have only been involved in features, people profiles, and soft news stories. Hard news writers struggle because they are tasked with producing stories the public wants to hear. Rookiee: I avoid newspapers because I think they are full of shit. Instead, I get news from foreign sources. News is an entertainment industry. Mike: maybe now, but not historically. Rookie: I have to search outside the US to locate honest news. That doesn’t say much for US journalism. Mike: there is more competition in the US, so it is unlikely to change soon. Rookiee: if change comes from improved education, then we are screwed. Big corporations don’t want critical thinkers; they want obedient workers. (49:27 to 56:41)

Rookie: talking with Old Saint Nick in ep 20, we discussed how the education system fails children. Mentors need to be paedo-emotional, yet teachers cannot show such emotion to children, as they risk sanction. Mike: this is why I got involved in youth work, especially as I lost my dad when I was 12. The reason was not sexual. I wanted to give one thing to kids I never had; someone there for them. I wouldn’t be honest if I said I wasn’t interested in some of the kids I mentored. (56:42 to 59:28)

Mike: am I interested in taking it further? I don’t know. We are all different. Rookiee: I am getting to the point where I can no longer categorise a person’s sexuality. Mike: I get into a chat room and the conversation degenerates to the point where I just can’t proceed. I think, am I really like him? No I am not. It does make me question whether I am a part of this whole thing. None of us are saints, but neither do we lurk around in alleys. (56:42 to 59:28)

Rookiee: is journalism a style? Mike: yes. Journalistic and newspaper writing are different. Rookiee: so you do personal or erotic writing? Mike: I used to do erotic writing for publication, but no longer. The chat room dialogue soured me. Rookiee: you told me that NAMBLA turned down a story you wrote. Mike: yes, it was too graphic they said, but I didn’t think it was. It was part auto-biography part fiction, and featured an experience when I was 12 years old. I may have made it too personal for consumption. I can understand NAMBLA not wanting to be overtly graphic. (59:29 to 01:01:05)

Rookiee: do you think a way to secure journalism integrity is online blogging, etc.? Mike: probably. I know journalists who have their own blogs, as they are unable to express themselves elsewhere. Newspapers want to appeal to the family structure. Ironically most readers are over forty-five. Young people don’t read; they get news online or from tv. Rookiee: mainstream media is inherently flawed. Young people are reverting to the traditional personal communication like blogs. (01:01:06 to 01:05:21)

What do you think about Youtube? Mike: Watched a few videos there. Rookiee: YT’s slogan is ‘broadcast yourself’. Anyone can upload a video. Some involve minors. Many of them are highly exhibitionist. One 11yo decided to strip to music very proudly. Tell me, was that boy was forced? It was erotic and porno, and it shouldn’t happen. Society would say ‘he didn’t consent’, or ‘he didn’t know better, and anyway it was unacceptable’. Mike: I happen to have seen it, and I accepted it. (01:05:22 to 01:10:17)

Rookiee: I advocate a sea-change as to how society perceives minor-attracted individuals. I say minor-attracted not because I am ashamed of using the word paedophile, but because not everyone who is a minor is a child, and not everyone who is attracted to children is attracted to pre-pubescent children. Mike: my age of attraction is 11 years old plus. Rookiee: what do you think of a 17yo jacking off on camera being categorised as child porn? Mike: that is not child porn. Rookiee: federally, a child is anyone under the age of majority. That means 18 years old. The term ‘child porn’ is misleading. Those depicted in ‘child porn’ are mainly minors, not children. Legislators and litigators do not handle this topic honestly. Producers and distributors are primarily kids. I laughed when the government claimed child porn was a multi-billion dollar industry. Mike: it is not for sure, but what can you do? (01:10:18 to 01:13:31)