Pen Pals Pod

Krisserin and Kelton start with the weekly check-in: 775 of 1,500 words, thirty pages of Wandering Stars, and the logline assignment neither of them could quite pin down. Krisserin reads her pitch for Parasocial, Kelton reads the long and short versions of The Second Wind, and they talk about why shrinking your book to a few sentences is so hard (and how Leigh Stein’s plot class helps).

Then Kimberly Garza joins us. Krisserin met her at an AWP panel on Filipinos in diaspora, and as a fellow Mexipino writer, she felt at home in Kimberly’s new novel. Kimberly is a professor and the director of the creative writing program at UT San Antonio, and the author of The Last Karankawas, a linked story collection that her editor helped reshape into a novel. Her second book, Between You a River, is a multigenerational family saga set in Texas and the Philippines, and it comes out December 1. She tells us how the first draft ran twice as long as the final version, how she lost editors along the way, and how she figured out which characters, which research, and which scenes had to go.

We also talk about growing up in rural Texas without any writers around, building a writing group on Zoom, researching a novel on the ground in Manila and Mindoro, and the three books on her nightstand. At the end, Krisserin shares a rough week of querying and the tarot card that gave her a boost.

Books and Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Between You a River by Kimberly Garza (out December 1, 2026)
The Last Karankawas by Kimberly Garza
Kin by Tayari Jones
The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin
Lone Women by Victor LaValle
The Changeling by Victor LaValle
The Family Izquierdo by Rubén Degollado
Sabrina & Corina by Kali Fajardo-Anstine
The Song of the Lioness series by Tamora Pierce
Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
Olive Kitteridge by Elizabeth Strout
Winesburg, Ohio by Sherwood Anderson
Exit Party by Emily St. John Mandel
Wandering Stars by Tommy Orange

Follow Kim Garza:
Website: kimberlygarza.com
Instagram: @kimrgarza

Pre-order Between You and a River at your local indie bookstore or Bookshop.org. Pub date December 1, 2026.

Write to us:
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Follow us:
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Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton shows up with new baby bangs and a question she can't shake: who do you want to be on a book cover forever? From there the hosts check in on the week. Kelton spent a six-hour Saturday editing and crossed 90,000 words on her "chunky rom-com." Krisserin squeezed out 590 words and got pulled into Tommy Orange's Wandering Stars and Jeffrey Ostler's The Lakotas and the Black Hills as research for her novel. They also get into what music to write to, whether 94,000 words is too long for YA, and how Katherine Center keeps raising the stakes.

Then comes the question a lot of listeners have: how do you find beta readers if you don't have writer friends? Kelton shares the four questions she's asking her readers and compares finding your people to foraging for mushrooms. Both hosts talk about the slightly cringe, very necessary step of telling people "I'm a writer," and why Kelton is retiring her go-to line, "I'll write whatever words people wanna pay me for." Krisserin explains how QueryTracker actually works (spoiler: it's no Domino's Pizza Tracker) and whether querying really has a season.

The episode ends with an argument about hope versus grit and a homework assignment. Kelton will write the logline for The Second Wind, plus a "dream state" future bio for Krisserin. Krisserin will try to fit all of Parasocial into one line. Sign up for the Pen Pals writing accountability group through the link in our bio.

Want in on our invite-only writers accountability group? Fill out the interest form here: https://forms.gle/QSdWNYc9cptJ3ZVBA

Books Mentioned in this Episode:
Wandering Stars by Tommy Orange
There There by Tommy Orange
The Lakotas and the Black Hills by Jeffrey Ostler
The Rom-Commers by Katherine Center

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Want in on our invite-only writers accountability group? Fill out the interest form here: https://forms.gle/QSdWNYc9cptJ3ZVBA

Back in the same room after last week’s voice notes, Kelton is fighting off the sickness she warned us about and admits she didn’t touch her edits. Instead, she spent the week making a mock cover for her rom-com out of a stack of old magazines. Krisserin, meanwhile, queried three agents at 8:20 a.m. on one agent’s deadline day without rereading her letter.

Now that the pages have actually been read, they get into the notes. Krisserin explains how she cut Parasocial’s opening to fit a 10-page limit without losing the twist, and what’s different about querying this book a third time. Kelton hears why her book sounds exactly like her, why her main character needs a reason to want so much more, and why her heroine needs to know where she is in the room. That opens up a bigger conversation about present tense, flashbacks, and dual timelines, while Krisserin’s IAIA mentor pushes her to write in a tense that feels like writing with her left hand.

Plus: hyperrealistic animal puppets, a bird twist, Katabasis as a literal guide to hell, and a spirited fight over the one-line pitch for Dungeon Crawler Carl.

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are both on the road for work this week, which means no sitting down to record together. So they did the next best thing: voice notes stitched together into one very honest week.

Kelton races a highway vehicle fire to make her flight to Texas, takes refuge from the HVAC in a Dallas hotel that feels like a lunar space station, and delivers a heartfelt plea for one interesting wine on the hotel menu. Krisserin sends her MFA packet off to her mentor, braces for a Texas storm system, and spends an evening scrubbing her scalp over a lice scare, before a company field day takes out her shoulder instead. Between the chaos, they trade pages: Kelton sends Krisserin her rough-draft rom-com, Krisserin sends Kelton the opening of Parasocial, and they get into voice, vulnerability, and what it really means to have a writing partner.

Plus: if snow were a person (big three included), the kind of week where you can't write and have to be okay with that, and Kelton's theory that rest is like paint. Goals for the week: Krisserin wants to write 1,000 words, finish Tommy Orange's Wandering Stars, and query two or three agents. Kelton is editing five chapters.

Books Mentioned in This Episode:
Wandering Stars by Tommy Orange
There There by Tommy Orange
The Lost Journals of Sacajewea by Debra Magpie Earling
Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash
Circe by Madeline Miller

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are both trying to figure out how to write when the writing routine stops working. Kelton is deep in structural edits and considering sending Krisserin the first four chapters of her rom-com for a gut check, while Krisserin abandons the fantasy of a perfect morning writing practice and manages to get 1,200 words down wherever she can. They talk about writing dialogue, learning from Patricia Lockwood’s Priestdaddy, looming MFA craft essays, and the small miracle of having writer friends who will send your book to their agents.

Then journalist and author Mimi Montgomery joins to talk about her debut novel, Murder Bites, and the extremely non-linear path it took to publication. Mimi started writing the book around 30, squeezing it in before work and on weekends, and eventually queried an agent who loved her voice and line-level writing but delivered one fairly significant piece of feedback: the plot was basically nonexistent. Mimi explains how an outline of what the book could become got her signed, why rebuilding a murder mystery after you’ve already written it is not a process she’d recommend, and how another major revision during submission finally led to a book deal.

They also get into writing with an eight-month-old and a full-time job, the usefulness (and emotional devastation) of reading your submission rejections, what Mimi learned from Carl Hiaasen, and why trying to manufacture the perfect high-concept hook can make you lose sight of the thing you actually control: your own weirdness and point of view. Plus: bougie dog bars, Kevin Wilson’s legendary Airbnb writing method, whether anyone can actually justify a $3,000 writing retreat, and the realization that your husband’s hobby may, in fact, be supporting your writing career.

Learn more about Mimi Montgomery:
Website: mimimontgomerywriter.com
Instagram: @mimi_montgomery
Substack: Kind of a Lot

Her novel Murder Bites is available now wherever books are sold!

Books Mentioned in this Episode:
Murder Bites by Mimi Montgomery
Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood
Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash
Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins
Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus
Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson
Understory by Chloe Benjamin
Alan Opts Out by Courtney Maum
Rabbit Cake by Annie Hartnett

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton check in on a week that went sideways for one of them and sideways-but-productive for the other. Kelton's spaghetti draft pushes her timeline out a month, while Krisserin logs 4,000 words and a new craft essay on LeAnne Howe's Savage Conversations for her IAIA MFA. Then they're joined by Becca Freeman, author of The Christmas Orphans Club, the voice behind the Book Enthusiast newsletter, and co-host of Bad on Paper, for a conversation about what it takes to write the second book.

Becca talks about becoming a writer after years as a lifelong reader, how she spent her first year and a half of drafting telling herself it was "just for me," and how her podcast and platform led to an agent outside the traditional query process. She gets candid about Back Where We Started, a dual-timeline second chance romance she had to rip down to the studs after early feedback, why she thought she'd be a "book-a-year author," and what she learned about ease versus quality. We also get into turning a newsletter into a paid tier, choosing the ages of your characters, reading while you write, and why there is no playbook (even for the people who've interviewed hundreds of authors).

Plus: Becca's dream of a TV writer's room, three books she can't stop recommending, a writing exercise that asks you to pan and praise yourself, and Krisserin on why romance novels used to be sold in grocery stores.

Learn more about Becca Freeman:
Substack: beccafreeman.substack.com (Book Enthusiast)
Instagram: @beccamfreeman
Podcast: Bad on Paper
Back Where We Started (out October 13): signed pre-orders through The Ripped Bodice
Website: beccafreeman.net

Books Mentioned in this Episode:
The Christmas Orphans Club by Becca Freeman
Back Where We Started by Becca Freeman
Understory by Chloe Benjamin
The Force of Such Beauty by Barbara Bourland
One and Only by Maureen Goo
People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry
The Idea of You by Robinne Lee
Alan Opts Out by Courtney Maum
Take Me With You by Steven Rowley
You Made a Fool of Death With Your Beauty by Akwaeke Emezi
Tom Lake by Ann Patchett
State of Wonder by Ann Patchett
Such a Bad Influence by Olivia Muenter
Funny You Should Ask by Elissa Sussman
Savage Conversations by LeAnne Howe
Credence by Penelope Douglas
Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash
Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood
Float Plan by Trish Doller
The Lost Journals of Sacajewea by Debra Magpie Earling

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton crossed 78,000 words this week and has officially retired the word-count goal in favor of structural editing, while Krisserin wrapped a craft essay for her IAIA mentor and is bracing for a stack of looming MFA deadlines. Both hosts admit the season is already busy — school fundraiser season, novel revisions, and the general chaos of trying to write while parenting — but they're feeling good.

Then comedy writer and teacher Caitlin Kunkel joins to talk about her new book, Inside Jokes: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers, co-written with Elissa Bassist. Caitlin breaks down comedy as a learnable, technical skill: how to spot a "confident idiot," why beginning writers bury their best joke in the middle of a sentence, and how "benign violation theory" explains why some jokes land and others don't. She traces her own path from drama-school seriousness to satire at The Second City, talks about baking comedy into a story's premise (Kevin Wilson's Nothing to See Here, Hilary Leichter's Temporary), and digs into how humor differs across generations, platforms, and audiences.

The conversation ranges from Patricia Lockwood's physical comedy to the ethics of joking about self-harm to why farts are, categorically, funny. Krisserin and Kelton close out with their goals for the week — five chapters of edits for Kelton, 2,500 words and another craft essay for Krisserin — plus a listener book recommendation to add to the TBR pile.

PRE-ORDER Inside Jokes, A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers by Caitlin Kunkle and Elissa Bassist, available October 20, 2026.

Follow Caitlin:
https://caitlinkunkel.com/
Instagram: @kunkeltron

Books Mentioned in this episode:
Inside Jokes: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers by Caitlin Kunkel & Elissa Bassist
New Erotica for Feminists: Satirical Fantasies of Love, Lust, and Equal Pay by Caitlin Kunkel
Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson
Temporary by Hilary Leichter
A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole
My Sister, the Serial Killer by Oyinkan Braithwaite
Big Swiss by Jen Beagin
Sky Daddy by Kate Folk
Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood
Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash
Hollow Bones by Jodi Picoult
Float Plan by Trish Doller
The Lost Journals of Sacagawea by Debra Magpie Earling

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are back for Season 3 and this summer, one of them actually wrote a book. Kelton hit 66,000 words on her rom-com after finally abandoning her identity as a "pantser" and writing from a full outline for the first time. Krisserin did not write a novel. She'll tell you exactly why.

Instead, Krisserin spent six of eight summer weeks away from her desk — an MFA residency at the Institute of American Indian Arts, a 20th-anniversary trip to Vancouver and Victoria, two weeks in Portland and two weeks in Japan — and quietly began a new auto-fictional, historical project after officially parting ways with her literary agent this spring. It's the kind of summer that makes their European listener's advice to "slow down and do less" land a little differently.

They talk honestly about why the agent split happened, the particular exhaustion of a summer with no rest in it, and the very different ways outlining has recently rewired Kelton's drafting process. Plus: rom-com craft talk, a debate about whether Princess Donut is safe, and an open call for anyone with boat knowledge who wants to be an alpha reader.

Season 3 is officially underway — and they're looking for debut authors to feature. If that's you, or you know someone, get in touch.

Books mentioned in this episode:
Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins
Dungeon Crawler Carl series by Matt Dinniman
Nora Goes Off Script and Same Time Next Summer by Annabelle Monaghan
Booby Moon: A Weaning Book for Toddlers, Creating Magic, Wonder, and Ritual for a More Joyful Experience for All by Yvette Reid, illustrated by Camilo Zapeta

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Season two is officially in the books 🎉

This week, we’re doing something a little different: opening up the listener survey and sharing what surprised us, what made us laugh, what made us rethink things, and what we’re taking into season three.

We get into:

• The biggest takeaways from your survey responses
• Who’s actually listening (writers… and surprisingly, a lot of non-writers)
• The topics you want more of next season (writer burnout, mental health, money, motherhood, revision, and creative sustainability)
• What worked—and didn’t—with guest episodes
• Dream guests and future episode ideas
• How writers actually pay the bills
• Accountability partners, writing communities, and whether we should finally start a Pen Pals Slack
• What it means to pursue creative goals when life keeps happening

We also reflect on feedback we received this season, talk about how we think about criticism and community, and share what we’re excited to experiment with next.

Thank you for listening, emailing, sharing episodes, and spending another season with us. Whether you’re drafting your novel, revising, dreaming about starting, or just here for two friends trying to make something meaningful while juggling real life—we’re so glad you’re here.

See you in season three ❤️

Mentioned in this episode:
"real eyes realize real lies: on Yesteryear and selling out" by Haley at Brain Stew on Substack.

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Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton brings on one of her favorite outdoor writers: Heather Hansman, award-winning journalist, contributing editor at Outside Magazine, and author of Downriver and Powder Days. Heather's newest book, Fierce Country, uncovers the stories of three women — Grand Canyon guide Georgie White, environmental philosopher Dolores LaChapelle, and wilderness guide Anne LaBastille — who shaped how we think about public land, conservation, and who gets to feel at home in the outdoors. Their stories were largely ignored. Heather spent years in archives fixing that.

The conversation covers what it actually takes to build a freelance writing career in the outdoor space (grindier than it looks), how Heather knew Fierce Country was a book and not just a great magazine piece, what it was like to report on women who left no living children and whose archives were sitting in a stranger's spare room, and why she thinks the key to pitching is making the editor's job as easy as possible. She also talks about her morning commute ritual, Ann Friedman's advice to "kiss sideways," and why she initially resisted the idea of writing about women at all.

Plus: Kelton and Krisserin close out the season with listener shoutouts, survey news, and summer goals — including Kelton's Caribbean rom-com that plotted itself out in one feverish afternoon.

Books Mentioned in this Episode:

Powder Days: Ski Bums, Ski Towns, and the Future of Chasing Snow by Heather Hansman
Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West by Heather Hansman
London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe
Horses by Jake Skeets 
Daytime Moon by Kerri Schlottman
Funny You Should Ask by Elissa Sussman 
Off Campus Series by Elle Kennedy

 
Follow Heather:
Website: heatherhansman.com
Instagram: @hhansman

Pre-order Fierce Country at your local indie bookstore or Bookshop.org — pub date July 14, 2026

📋 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU! Pen Pals has a listener survey and we need your feedback to make the show even better. Fill it out at: https://form.typeform.com/to/kIosWT3L — it takes just a few minutes and means the world to us.

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios