People Behind the Science Podcast

By Dr. Marie McNeelyScience

People Behind the Science Podcast episodes

August 10 877: Dr. Alan Cohen: Studying How Dynamic Biological Systems Shape Health and Aging
Photo credit: Coeur des sciences / Pierre-Luc Daoust
Dr. Alan Cohen is Associate Professor of Environmental Health Sciences, Chair of Biological Complexity and Healthy Longevity, and Co-Director of the Science of Health Program in the Robert N. Butler Columbia Aging Center at Columbia University. He received his Bachelor of Science degree in Biology and Asian Studies from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and he was awarded his PhD in Biology from the University of Missouri-St. Louis. Afterwards, Alan completed postdoctoral research at Johns Hopkins University, the University of Toronto, and the University of Sherbrooke. He then served on the faculty at the University of Sherbrooke for about 12 years before accepting a position at Columbia University in 2022. Alan has received various awards and honors, including the Canadian Institutes of Health Research (CIHR) Institute of Aging New Investigator Prize of Excellence in Research on Aging and the CIHR New Investigator Salary Award. In this interview, he shares more about his life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (3:04)
When he’s not working, Alan enjoys practicing Aikido, a martial art he first learned while living in Japan. He also does contact improvisation dance, where partners use spontaneous points of physical contact to create movement together without knowing where the dance will lead.
The Scientific Side (4:48)
In his research, Alan takes a theoretical biology approach to some of the biggest questions in science, including what aging is and what it means to be alive. Rather than viewing biology only as a collection of individual genes, molecules, and cells, he studies how these components interact as complex dynamic systems to maintain the internal balance that supports health. His work explores how the breakdown of these interconnected systems may underlie aging and disease, and how scientists can develop new ways to measure and understand these changes beyond traditional reductionist approaches.
A Dose of Motivation (7:46)
John von Neumann once told Claude Shannon, the inventor of information theory, that he should call his measure of uncertainty “entropy,” because “nobody knows what entropy really is, so in a debate you will always have the advantage.” This humorous anecdote about entropy continues to resonate with Alan and inspire him in his work about aging.
What Got You Hooked on Science? (11:18)
In his early school days, Alan enjoyed his science classes, but he wasn’t drawn to the rigid notion of the scientific method. He studied poetry for a few years in an art high school and began college as an Asian studies major. When he realized that Asian studies majors tended to get jobs in marketing or other kinds of positions that didn’t appeal to him, Alan knew he had to make a change. He chose to study ecology so he could spend time outside, surrounded by nature and animals. After graduating, Alan pursued a PhD on the evolution of aging and later shifted his research towards public health. The freedom to pursue his own research questions motivated Alan to stay in academic science, and he honed his research program as a new faculty member to focus on complex systems theory.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (26:11)
One of the biggest challenges Alan faced in his career was getting other scientists to pay attention to his ideas that were outside the mainstream at the time. Early on, he published work applying complex systems theory to aging. Although Alan was able to publish his research, he often felt that the work was simply being ignored rather than debated or criticized. Over time, as systems biology and ideas about interconnectedness became more widely accepted, the scientific community became increasingly receptive to concepts he had been advocating for years. This experience taught Alan the importance of patience and persistence in science. Sometimes you just have to wait for the field to catch up.
A Shining Success! (29:26)
A recent win was finally securing a substantial federal research grant. This involved several years of adapting to the U.S. funding system and trying to find support for ideas that may push traditional boundaries. While having the funds to do the projects Alan proposed is exciting, the real success was the freedom this grant has given him. With less time and energy devoted to worrying about grants, he has been able to return to the conceptual thinking he loves, including developing ideas about entropy and aging, sharing articles through a Substack publication, and working with collaborators to advance how we think about aging.
Book Recommendations (36:23)
Seven Decades: How We Evolved to Live Longer by Michael D. Gurven, Bewilderment by Richard Powers.
Most Treasured Travel (39:38)
Working in ecology gave Alan the opportunity to conduct field research in some remarkable places, including Panama. While studying birds in the town of Gamboa, Alan experienced a series of surprising small-world encounters as he crossed paths with old friends and acquaintances. Those unexpected reunions, combined with early mornings in the jungle sampling birds, made the trip especially memorable. Alan also appreciated the simplicity of life at the field station. Having fewer conveniences and gadgets reminded Alan that many of the things we consider “essential” don’t necessarily make us happier.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (43:21)
Alan has fond memories of the amazing community he was part of as a graduate student in Saint Louis. His PhD program brought together a diverse group of students from around the world with different backgrounds, experiences, and traditions. One tradition that has stayed with him came from his PhD advisor, who celebrated each graduating student with a signed bottle of champagne. Alan and other former lab members have continued this tradition with their own students. Beyond the lab, the international community made for lively gatherings filled with salsa music, caipirinha cocktails, and lasting friendships.
Advice For Us All (47:00)
The best advice Alan has received is to follow your passion and remain patient when pursuing ideas you truly believe in. Passion provides the motivation to keep going when good ideas take time to gain traction. Pursuing something you feel is important may also bring your body and mind into a healthy alignment. At the same time, it’s important to understand how the scientific system works, including funding, publishing, and networking, without allowing career pressures to dictate everything you do. Learn how to navigate the system while staying focused on the questions and ideas that excite you most.
Guest Bio
Alan is interested in understanding the biological basis of health and aging, particularly how our bodies maintain dynamic equilibrium, and how evolution has shaped networks of biological and physiological mechanisms that keep us in balance across changing conditions. This understanding can lead to metrics of health and aging that are more integrative than standard molecule-by-molecule approaches, and that can serve as a basis for understanding health, aging, and longevity across individuals, populations, and species. Alan relies largely on epidemiological data (or similar data in other species) to understand how networks of biomarkers change over time, and how dynamic processes (such as in data from wearables or responses to stressors) relate to the biological basis of health, “intrinsic health.”
Support for this episode of People Behind the Science was provided by Innovative Research, Inc.
The post 877: Dr. Alan Cohen: Studying How Dynamic Biological Systems Shape Health and Aging appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
52 min
August 03 876: Dr. Isaac Harris: Uncovering the Hidden Roles of Antioxidants in Health, Cancer, and Other Diseases
Dr. Isaac Harris is an Associate Professor in the Department of Biochemistry and Biomolecular Sciences and the Center for Discovery in Cancer Research at McMaster University. He received his bachelor’s of engineering degree in chemical engineering and PhD in molecular biology from the University of Toronto. Next, he conducted postdoctoral research at Harvard medical school before joining the faculty at the University of Rochester and Wilmot Cancer Institute in 2019. In 2024, he was awarded the Wilmot Community Outreach and Engagement (COE) Innovator Award. He very recently moved his lab and joined the faculty McMaster University. In this interview, Isaac shares more about his life and research.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:16)
When he’s not working, Isaac enjoys spending time with his wife and five-year-old daughter, doing things like coloring, playing outside, visiting the park, or eating ice cream. He also likes cooking, reading, relaxing, watching TV, and introducing his daughter to some of his favorite childhood shows like The Simpsons.
The Scientific Side (4:22)
Isaac’s research examines the roles of antioxidants in health and disease, including how they are produced and used in cells. He is particularly interested in how cancer cells rely on antioxidant pathways to survive and grow. Isaac is working to understand why high-dose antioxidant supplements may sometimes promote cancer rather than prevent it, and whether blocking cancer cells’ natural antioxidant systems could slow tumor growth.
A Dose of Motivation (9:32)
“Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-a** weights.” — Ronnie Coleman
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” ― Frank Herbert, Dune
“I wish upon you ample doses of pain and suffering,” because through pain and suffering there is growth and learning. — Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia
What Got You Hooked on Science? (16:19) 
Isaac’s early enthusiasm for science was sparked by childhood “rock hunting” trips, gazing through the lens of his small microscope, at-home experiments, and time spent exploring the natural world with his father. Labor-intensive summer jobs later taught him persistence and got him used to the kinds of mundane, repetitive tasks that often underlie scientific discovery. Initially planning to become a physician, but wanting a backup plan in case he didn’t get into medical school, Isaac began studying chemical engineering in college.
However, he soon realized that biomedical research offered an opportunity to combine problem-solving, investigations into questions no one had answered before, and the potential to have positive impacts on a lot of people’s lives through scientific discovery. Through persistence, excellent mentorship from his PhD and postdoc advisors, and a willingness to create his own opportunities, Isaac achieved his goal of leading his own independent research laboratory.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (34:22) 
Scientific research often takes a long time, and you don’t necessarily get the results you expect. For example, after investing years of work studying a particular enzyme that supported antioxidants using a genetically engineered mouse model, their experiments showed no differences. To get through these kinds of setbacks, Isaac has tried to learn from negative results, maintain a short memory for failure, and continue to pursue meaningful questions.
Another challenge in his particular field of antioxidants is finding a niche and convincing people that there are still important gaps to address. Although Isaac has faced rejected grants and criticism that these questions have already been answered, he believes there is tremendous value in revisiting established ideas with new tools, perspectives, and experimental approaches.
A Shining Success! (36:58) 
Mentoring students and trainees has become one of the most rewarding parts of his career. Isaac’s first graduate student joined his newly established laboratory during the COVID-19 pandemic, and it was exciting to see her grow into an increasingly confident, independent scientist. She successfully defended her PhD, published a paper in the prestigious journal Nature Communications, and went on to land a position at Roche.
Isaac has also worked to support early-career scientists beyond his own laboratory. Together with Dr. Gina DeNicola, he co-founded the free, virtual Cancer Metabolism Showcase and Workshop, which highlights research by students, postdoctoral fellows, and technicians while offering practical training in networking, science communication, career planning, and transitioning into academic or industry positions.
Book Recommendations (3:35)
The Dark Tower Series by Stephen King, The Fisherman by John Langan, and books by Christopher Buehlman.
Most Treasured Travel (42:24)
One of Isaac’s most memorable travel experiences came as a graduate student attending a conference in Capri, Italy. After the conference, he and a postdoc colleague enjoyed staying in Italy for a bit to explore. Beyond introducing him to new places, cultures, and researchers, the trip revealed how academic science can create opportunities to build lasting relationships and become part of an international research community.
Although being surrounded by prominent scientists initially felt intimidating, the experience taught him that it is okay to enter unfamiliar spaces, listen, and learn. Over time, Isaac has become more comfortable with discomfort and encourages trainees to manage feelings of imposter syndrome, keep showing up, and take small steps toward meeting people who may enrich their lives and careers.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (46:15) 
During his postdoctoral training in Boston, Isaac and several fellow cancer metabolism researchers began meeting regularly at a local bar to discuss science, challenge one another’s ideas, and spend time together. What started as an informal monthly gathering grew into a lasting community of colleagues who have supported each other as their careers developed. Though they now work in different places, the friendships and scientific connections formed during those years remain strong.
Advice For Us All (51:06) 
Research isn’t easy. Knowing this has helped Isaac persist through the failures, repetitive work, unexpected results, and rejection that are inherent to science, while remaining motivated by the possibility of making discoveries that could have a lasting impact. As you go through your life, face challenges directly, keep moving forward, and build strong networks of mentors and colleagues. Science can be an unpredictable, up-and-down pursuit, but with perseverance and support, researchers have the extraordinary opportunity to uncover new knowledge that may ultimately improve people’s lives.
Guest Bio
Born in Ottawa, Canada, Isaac is looking forward to moving his lab to its new home at McMaster University. His research focuses on the antioxidants and the roles they may play in health and disease. There has been a long-standing belief that antioxidants supplements could prevent or treat cancer. However, results of large-scale clinical trials have shown the opposite: antioxidant supplements promote, rather than prevent, cancer. Antioxidants are known to be depleted in some diseases and overabundant in other diseases, and we don’t yet have the ability to regulate antioxidants to either prevent or treat disease. The Harris Lab focuses on uncovering how antioxidants are made, how they are used, and how modulating them can improve disease outcomes.
The post 876: Dr. Isaac Harris: Uncovering the Hidden Roles of Antioxidants in Health, Cancer, and Other Diseases appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
56 min
July 27 875: Dr. Mariana Byndloss: Investigating How Disruptions in the Gut Microbiome Impact Intestinal Epithelial Cells and Lead to Disease
Dr. Mariana Byndloss is Assistant Professor of Pathology, Microbiology and Immunology at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Mariana earned her DVM, MSc in veterinary pathology, and PhD in veterinary pathology from the Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais (UFMG) in Brazil. She was awarded the Brazilian National Prize for best PhD thesis in Veterinary Medicine. Afterwards, Mariana conducted postdoctoral research at the University of California, Davis before joining the faculty at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. In our interview, Mariana will tell us more about her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:16)
Mariana loves animals, and she spends a lot of her free time with her dog and new puppy. They are both German Shorthair Pointers, and she trains them to hunt and to participate in American Kennel Club competitions. Mariana also enjoys quality time with her husband and son, listening to live music, and exploring all the great restaurants in Nashville.
The Scientific Side (4:04)
Research in Mariana’s lab investigates how the bacteria that live inside our gut can affect our health. She is interested in how things like diet, antibiotics, or infection may change how our body behaves. This, in turn, can change how the bacteria in our gut behave and lead to disease.
A Dose of Motivation (5:11)
“Be the change you want to see in the world.” – Mahatma Gandhi
What Got You Hooked on Science? (8:58)
Mariana was exposed to science early, and she had the opportunity to take classes in physics, chemistry, and biology in high school. She had an excellent physics teacher, and her interest in biology was sparked when she began learning more about evolution and genetics. Though Mariana knew she was interested in biology, she didn’t know what career she wanted to pursue. At the time, Mariana’s sister was in veterinary school, and she encouraged Mariana to follow the same path because it would combine Mariana’s love of biology with a useful clinical degree. Mariana got involved in research as an undergraduate student, and she had a phenomenal experience. Her advisor was an excellent veterinary pathologist, mentor, and researcher, and she continued working with him for her master’s and PhD degrees.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (19:16)
In graduate school, Mariana studied a bacterial pathogen that required her to work in a biosafety level 3 (BSL-3) laboratory. These labs must be closed periodically for standard decontamination procedures, cleaning, and inspection by the Center for Disease Control (CDC). Though these are predictable events, they can be really disruptive to research. The bacteria Mariana was working with was slow-growing, and it was frustrating not to be able to work in the lab for 3-4 months when she needed to finish her experiments to complete her degree. To cope with the situation, Mariana and her colleagues started new projects using other microbes to have something to work on while their main lab was closed.
A Shining Success! (21:46)
Having established her lab relatively recently, one of the most exciting successes for Mariana has been seeing her early trainees learn and grow as scientists. To study gut microbes in animal models, Mariana’s lab collects fecal samples and analyzes the microbes from these samples. The first PhD student to join Mariana’s lab had not done much work previously with animal models, and Mariana will never forget when the student rushed to her office to celebrate the first time she successfully collected a fecal sample from a mouse. Since this early victory, the student has gone on to publish a great review paper and win an award for best poster at a local conference. It has been so rewarding to see her student succeeding in science. To celebrate successes, Mariana’s lab gets together for lab happy hours, parties, or delicious Brazilian cuisine at Mariana’s house.
Book Recommendations (24:42)
Let Them Eat Dirt: Saving Your Child from an Oversanitized World Book by Brett Finlay and Marie-Claire Arrieta and any book by Amyr Klink
Most Treasured Travel (26:21)
A few years ago, Mariana visited Germany to attend a conference on Salmonella pathogenesis. During this trip, she was delighted to have a chance to meet many great European scientists in her field. In addition, Mariana’s husband and son accompanied her on the trip. Once the conference ended, they were able to do some sightseeing and visit the city of Prague in the Czech Republic. Mariana enjoyed seeing firsthand the amazing historic sites and architecture in Berlin and Prague.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (29:31)
One thing Mariana loves to do with colleagues is get together over a cup of coffee to talk about life. In a previous lab, Mariana and her fellow lab members rented a boat and spent the day hanging out at a nearby lake, swimming, and barbecuing. On another occasion, she and her colleagues rented a house in the mountains for a lab ski trip. These outings were excellent opportunities to get to know the people she worked with, talk about science, and share their interests outside science as well. In her current lab, Mariana and her trainees often go out for lab lunches or meet up for happy hour after a long day. They also look forward to an annual lab hike and picnic each spring.
Advice For Us All (33:30)
A day spent in the library can save you months in the lab. Taking the time to read and really understand the literature gives you a sense of what experiments have been done already, as well as helps you understand your results and why things may not have turned out as you expected. Keep working, and try not to give up in the face of failure. In science, there is a lot of failure and disappointment. When you start to see failure as an opportunity to grow, it helps you become a better scientist.
Guest Bio
We are just starting to understand how the gut microbiota, the largest microbial community inhabiting our body, may contribute to health and disease. Mariana’s research proposes to establish novel molecular mechanisms that link a functional imbalance in the gut microbiota (aka: dysbiosis) with the pathogenesis of human disease. Her expertise comes from a variety of fields such as molecular biology, microbiology, immunology, pathology, and preclinical mouse models of human disease. Mariana is particularly interested in how inflammation-mediated changes in gut epithelial metabolism may lead to gut dysbiosis and increased risk of non-communicable diseases (e.g.: obesity, colorectal cancer, and cardiovascular disease) and of infectious gastroenteritis caused by the bacterial pathogen Salmonella enterica. When not in the lab, Mariana loves to spend time trying new restaurants in Nashville or exploring the outdoors with her family and her German Shorthaired Pointers Kweli and Serena. As a true Brazilian, she will never say no to watching a good soccer game while enjoying some Brazilian barbecue or feijoada.

*This episode was originally published on May 25, 2020.
The post 875: Dr. Mariana Byndloss: Investigating How Disruptions in the Gut Microbiome Impact Intestinal Epithelial Cells and Lead to Disease appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
37 min
July 20 874: Dr. Amy Williams: Searching for Signs of Life on Mars and Beyond
Dr. Amy Williams is an Associate Professor in the Department of Geological Sciences and Assistant Director of the Astraeus Space Institute at the University of Florida. Amy received her B.S. in Earth & Environmental Science from Furman University, her M.Sc. in Earth and Planetary Sciences from the University of New Mexico, and her Ph.D. in Geology from the University of California, Davis. Afterwards, Amy accepted a position as a Postdoctoral Research Associate at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. She served on the faculty at Towson University before joining the faculty at the University of Florida in 2018. She has received several NASA group achievement awards for her work with the Curiosity and Perseverance rover teams, and she was awarded the Provost’s Excellence Award for Assistant Professors from the University of Florida. She received the American Geophysical Union’s Award for Advancing Inclusive Excellence in STEM with the GeoSPACE Field Program, and she was a NASA Earth and Space Science Fellow and a Scialog: Signatures of Life in the Universe Fellow. In this interview, Amy shares more about her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:40)
When she’s not working, Amy enjoys spending time with her family and her cats. Some of her favorite pastimes include birdwatching, hiking, walking, and gardening.
The Scientific Side (3:54)
Amy is an astrobiologist who builds instruments and analyzes data from other worlds to help us try to answer the question of whether there is life on other planets beyond Earth. She is particularly interested in investigating whether there was once life on Mars.
A Dose of Motivation (5:16)
“You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot do.” — Eleanor Roosevelt
What Got You Hooked on Science? (8:02)
Growing up, Amy’s family regularly discussed science and technology and encouraged her curiosity. She’ll never forget laying in the back of her parents’ pickup truck one night watching a meteor shower streak across the sky. This experience sparked a lot of questions in her mind and helped cement her interest in exploring the possibility of life beyond Earth. Amy started as studying biology when she entered college, but she quickly switched her major after taking her first geology course. With the help of an influential undergraduate mentor, Amy got involved in research on water chemistry and published her first academic research paper.
As she continued her research on water-limited landscapes in New Mexico during her master’s program, Amy began examining connections between geology, chemistry, water, and microbial life. As her interests evolved, she shifted to geobiology and ultimately astrobiology. During her PhD at the University of California, Davis, Amy joined NASA’s Curiosity rover mission before its launch and has continued working on the mission throughout her career. She completed a research-intensive postdoctoral fellowship and also developed her skills as an educator before pursuing academic faculty roles. Serendipity, luck, hard work, and preparation were key along the course of Amy’s career path.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (26:15)
Failure is an unavoidable part of science, particularly when working with instruments operating millions of miles away on another planet. Right before they were supposed to begin collecting data on Mars for a new experiment designed to detect and analyze organic carbon, a critical channel in the instrument became clogged. Amy and her team had to abandon much of their original preparation and rapidly pivot to using an alternative channel they had never used before.
Through adaptability, collaboration, and the expertise of scientists and engineers at NASA Goddard, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and partner institutions in France, they transformed a potential failure into a major success and collected really cool new data. The experience reinforced the importance of trusting experienced collaborators, remaining flexible when plans have to change, and finding a way to turn a challenge into an opportunity.
A Shining Success! (29:56)
A major recent success for Amy was the first-of-its kind experiment using NASA’s Curiosity rover to understand whether the organic carbon found in Martian rocks came from living organisms, geological processes, or meteorites. The relatively simple molecules they detected most closely resembled organic material found in meteorites, suggesting that at least some of the carbon may have arrived on Mars billions of years ago and remained preserved in the rocks. While the findings do not provide evidence of life, they add an important piece to the larger story of whether ancient Mars contained the ingredients and conditions necessary for life.
The paper represented the culmination of 12 years of work that began when Amy joined the Sample Analysis at Mars (SAM) instrument team as a postdoctoral researcher in 2014. The experiment was conducted during the pandemic, which introduced many logistical challenges. Since then, the team completed extensive data analysis and laboratory studies to ensure that their conclusions were robust.
Mentoring students is also a source of meaningful successes for Amy. One student in her lab recently defended his master’s thesis, and he’s staying in the lab to complete a PhD. Beyond these big milestones, helping students overcome everyday challenges in the lab and learning to navigate failure is a valuable part of Amy’s career.
Book Recommendations (35:09)
The Sirens of Mars: Searching for Life on Another World by Sarah Stewart Johnson
Most Treasured Travel (36:37)
Through her career, Amy has had many fantastic opportunities to travel, explore new cultures, and build collaborations around the world. In recent years, she has conducted fieldwork in Iceland, collecting samples from hydrothermally influenced lakes that may resemble ancient lakes on Mars. Iceland has become a home away from home for Amy, and it’s been amazing to explore the wild landscapes, volcanoes, and waterfalls; see the rapidly changing weather firsthand; and experience the nearly endless daylight in the summers there.
Another memorable trip brought Amy to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates for a symposium at New York University Abu Dhabi. During her visit, Amy was delighted to connect with researchers she likely wouldn’t otherwise have had the opportunity to meet. Though it was a quick trip, Amy was impressed by what she saw of the city.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (40:22)
Amy’s husband is also a planetary scientist and faculty member at the same university, so they get to see each other both at home and at work. His lab uses large presses that can crunch down geological material with high pressures. The presses are decorated with little figure offerings meant to appease them and encourage them to continue working well. Inspired by this tradition from other labs, a student in Amy’s lab brought in a little plastic dinosaur glued to a rock. The dinosaur now watches over everyone as they use the instruments in the lab.
Amy’s lab also has a special tradition to commemorate each time a master’s or PhD student defends their thesis. She hangs one of the flyers about their presentation on the back of her office door and has them sign it. This serves as a nice visual reminder of all of the students she has trained, and Amy hopes to completely cover the door before she retires.
Advice For Us All (45:05)
This too shall pass. Remember that difficult times will give way to brighter days, but also that exciting discoveries and accomplishments are steps along your journey that will come and go. Keep moving forward and strive to make a positive difference in the lives of family, trainees, colleagues, and communities at home and around the world. And take a moment to reflect on the vastness of the universe and the possibility of life beyond earth. In the wise words of Dr. Carl Sagan, “the universe is a pretty big place, and if it’s just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.”
Guest Bio
Amy’s research is focused on the search for life beyond Earth by working with NASA’s Mars Curiosity and Perseverance rovers. She works with instrument development and existing flight instruments on planetary missions, as well as conducting analog environment studies on Earth to optimize existing and future life-detection instruments and missions. Most recently she has been sharing her research time between working on the Mars rover missions, conducting field work in Iceland, and irradiating ice cores that mimic the icy outer ocean moons of Enceladus and Europa. Beyond the lab, Amy enjoys building lego sets, gardening, reading, and relaxing with her husband, son, and 3 cats (the cats are less helpful with the legos than they think).
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48 min
July 13 873: Dr. Simon Sponberg: Finding Out How the Brain Controls Movement in Moths During Flight
Dr. Simon Sponberg is Dunn Family Professor and Assistant Professor in the School of Physics and the School of Biological Sciences, as well as Adjunct Assistant Professor in Biomedical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech). He received his B.A. in physics and biology from Lewis & Clark College and his Ph.D. in Integrative Biology from the University of California, Berkeley. Afterwards, Simon conducted postdoctoral research at the University of Washington before joining the faculty at Georgia Tech. He has been the recipient of an NSF Postdoctoral Fellowship in Biological Informatics, the University of Washington Postdoctoral Mentoring Award, the Young Investigator Award from the International Society for Neuroethology, an NSF Faculty Early Career Development (CAREER) Award, a Klingenstein-Simons Fellowship in the Neurosciences, and a Hertz Fellowship. In our interview, Simon shares more about his life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:23)
When he’s not doing science, Simon loves to cook. Cooking is an excellent creative outlet, it allows him to experience and understand other cultures, and it’s fun to cook with people and enjoy the results together afterwards. Simon is also a big fan of hiking and spending time outdoors.
The Scientific Side (5:19)
Through his research, Simon is interested in understanding how the brain works with muscles to make bodies move. Animals move gracefully in nearly all environments on Earth, and many types of movement can be difficult to perform in robotics and other created systems. Simon uses animal models to study how the body and the muscles inform the brain in terms of the information we take in and how we react to the environment.
A Dose of Motivation (6:43)
“The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’ but ‘That’s funny…’” – Isaac Asimov
What Got You Hooked on Science? (11:23)
At the age of six, Simon remembers examining the discarded exoskeletons of cicadas near his house. He’d pick up one skeleton, study it, and then move onto the next one. However, one of the cicada skins he picked up had not been fully shed, and the cicada inside suddenly started making a loud buzzing sound. It was terrifying. After this somewhat traumatic experience, Simon never imagined he would go on to have a career studying insects. During middle school, Simon had a great teacher who led a program called the Future Problem Solvers. This program brought together groups of students to compete using critical thinking to analyze and solve science fiction problem scenarios. Participating in this program prompted Simon to think more about the future, the problems we would have, and the solutions we would need. Entering college, Simon wasn’t sure what he wanted to pursue for a major. He liked various scientific disciplines, but he was also interested in philosophy, history, and international studies. A conversation with a professor who was a biophysicist helped Simon narrow his focus. Simon started off as a physics major, but a comparative physiology class piqued his interest in how animals solve problems in their environments in different ways. He realized that he wanted to study the intersections of organismal biology and physics.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (27:53)
When Simon was a postdoctoral fellow, he worked on a project investigating force production and timing of activation of a single pair of muscles in moths. The goal for this project was to see if the moth’s brain could precisely modulate the timing of activation of one of these muscles. Simon put a lot of time and energy into planning the experiment, building a flight arena for moth, creating the visual stimuli that would induce turning during flight, performing the experiments, and collecting all the data from moth muscles. When he started to analyze the data, Simon was extremely disappointed to discover that he couldn’t identify any coherent pattern for how the brain was modulating the muscles. This was particularly frustrating because it seemed like he could hear a pattern of activity in the electrical recordings when he was listening. Simon struggled for months to understand what may have gone wrong. He eventually discovered that the timing of muscle activity was even more precise than he originally expected, and that the way he was analyzing the data wasn’t careful enough to identify that level of detail. After making this realization, the story started to make sense again. Simon conducted additional followup experiments, and he was excited to see that the new data also supported this new idea that the timing of modulation of the muscle was at the level of less than a millisecond.
A Shining Success! (32:14)
Simon was excited to join a few of his trainees on a trip to the Argonne National Lab to perform experiments to uncover the underlying molecular structure of contracting moth muscles using the particle accelerator. Getting a grant for time on the x-ray beam there is highly competitive, and they only had a few days to do their experiments. They planned to prepare samples of moth flight control muscles, ship them to Argonne National Lab, finish the muscle preparations onsite, and start the experiments. With the first muscle sample, they got a little bit of good data. However, the next few muscles didn’t yield any data, and the fourth muscle provided wildly varying force data. Something was wrong, but they couldn’t figure out what. Over the next two days, a student prepared 20 different muscle samples, they completely disassembled and reassembled all of their equipment, and still nothing was working. They were running out of time, and the pressure was mounting. Simon soon realized that all of their muscles must have lost viability during shipping, and they had just spent two full days working with muscle that was too damaged to provide useful data. He was able to get new samples sent over from his former postdoctoral advisor, and they began working feverishly to collect the necessary data. Simon had to return to Georgia Tech before the experiments were concluded, but his trainees managed to finish collecting a good set of data that they could use for their projects.
Book Recommendations (38:20)
Momo by Michael Ende, The Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov, The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson, A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry
Most Treasured Travel (41:23)
This past summer, Simon traveled to India to visit a colleague at the National Center for Biological Sciences near Bengaluru. The lab was in an area surrounded by about 200 acres of jungle, and Simon had a wonderful time spending several days doing science with them. Afterwards, Simon traveled to a monastery in southern India that is home to a group of Tibetan Buddhist monks in exile. The Dalai Lama created a program where experts teach neuroscience to the monks, and neuroscience, physics, and biology are incorporated into the monastic education curriculum. Simon spent a few weeks teaching neuroscience there, and this was an amazing opportunity to share his science with people who were passionate about the topics he was discussing, but were approaching their studies with different perspectives and backgrounds from his own.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (43:52)
The first rule of Simon’s lab is “Don’t trust Simon”. This rule encourages trainees not to trust Simon to do their science and think for them. Simon’s goal is to encourage students to formulate their own ideas, develop independent critical thinking, and not just follow along with what he says. The rule also alludes to the fact that Simon can at times be mischievous, have a dry sense of humor, and joke around both in and out of the lab. For example, during his postdoctoral fellowship, Simon and his labmates set up a remote control system to control their advisor’s computer. From the next room over, they could wirelessly make the computer start playing music, adjust the volume, and other unexpected behaviors. They would often turn on jazz music when someone was entering their advisor’s office to shift suspicion to the office visitor.
Advice For Us All (51:04)
Choose to invest your time and intellectual energy on the problems you feel are the most challenging, interesting, and important to address. Also, try to find a supportive work environment where you are inspired by the people around you and where the questions you want to answer will be appreciated. For scientists, you will likely hit a point in some of your projects where it seems like everything is falling apart because some of your data don’t fit with the story you’ve put together. These are difficult times, but also times that may yield some of the most interesting stories and insights. Keep motivated, have confidence, and trust in the scientific process.
Guest Bio
Simon’s work examines how brains work with muscles and bodies to achieve movement. He is curious how animals manage to move in many ways through so many different environments. Currently he works on fast flight and rapid running, mostly in insects, whose small brains nonetheless produce amazing repertoires of movement. Most recently he and his group (the Agile Systems Lab) has been exploring how precisely neurons orchestrate motor activity, how the versatility of muscle arises from the physics of billions of organized tiny molecular motors, and how flowers blow in the wind (and what that does to the pollinators around them). His background is in biology and physics and he loves working with people from a variety of fields to understanding the neuromechanics of life. Outside of work, Simon loves hiking, cooking, and traveling (or all three together) especially if they involve mountains. He grew up in Montana, spent a lot of time up and down the west coast and now lives in Atlanta, Georgia.

*This episode was originally released on January 27, 2020.
The post 873: Dr. Simon Sponberg: Finding Out How the Brain Controls Movement in Moths During Flight appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
55 min
July 06 872: Dr. Martha Muñoz: Uncovering the Mechanisms Underlying Uneven Rates of Evolution Across Organisms
Dr. Martha Muñoz is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at Yale University. She received her B.A. in biology from Boston University. Afterwards, Martha worked as a Fulbright Research Scholar at the National Museum of Natural Sciences in Madrid, Spain. She was awarded her Ph.D. in Organismic & Evolutionary Biology from Harvard University. Next, Martha conducted postdoctoral research in the Research School of Biology at The Australian National University and subsequently the Department of Biology at Duke University. Prior to accepting her current position at Yale University, Martha served on the faculty in the Department of Biological Sciences at Virginia Tech. Martha has received numerous awards and honors, including the Boston University Department of Biology’s Distinguished Alumni ‘Rising Star’ Award, and a Young Investigator Award from the American Society of Naturalists. She was also named a ‘Scientist to Watch’ by The Scientist Magazine in 2019. In our interview, Martha shares more about her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:31)
For Martha, nature is a wonderful source of peace and inspiration for her research. When she’s not working, she enjoys exploring the outdoors, hiking, seeing amazing views, and observing wildlife. She also spends her free time reading, going to museums, and visiting her family in New York City.
The Scientific Side (4:56)
Martha is an evolutionary biologist who is working to better understand how and why evolution proceeds unevenly across the tree of life. Some features and branches of organisms evolve really quickly, while others remain inert or nearly inert for millions of years. Martha’s research is uncovering the mechanisms underlying this phenomenon, and she has discovered that behavior is a key architect of evolution. Through their behavior, organisms may expose themselves to greater natural selection (which accelerates evolution) or shield themselves from selection (which slows evolution), thus shaping the trajectory of their evolution.
A Dose of Motivation (7:26)
“He who walks a lot and reads a lot, sees a lot and knows a lot.” – Don Quixote de la Mancha by Miguel de Cervantes
What Got You Hooked on Science? (13:00)
As a kid growing up in a small apartment in New York City, Martha didn’t have a lot of exposure to nature. Her parents were born and raised in Cuba, and they came to the U.S. to seek a better life. To support her interests in nature, Martha’s parents brought her to nearby places like the American Museum of Natural History, the Bronx Zoo, and the Queens Botanical Garden as much as possible. She particularly remembers being awed and inspired while wandering through the halls of the American Museum of Natural History. It was amazing to see the diversity of life that exists today and that existed in the past. However, Martha wanted to see these organisms out in their native habitats in rain forests and coral reefs in the real world. It never occurred to her that she could become a scientist. She initially aspired to a career as a wildlife veterinarian after seeing them on wildlife documentaries. It wasn’t until her first week of college that Martha discovered what scientists did and what being in academia meant. Realizing that she could become a scientist herself and learning about evolution in her introductory biology course changed Martha’s whole career trajectory. Martha was able to get experience working in a lab as a work-study student in her freshman year, and seeing her advisor doing scientific research as an early career woman in science had a big impact. She knew she had to become an evolutionary biologist herself.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (30:46)
Much of Martha’s first few years in graduate school were spent pursuing questions and projects that she was already familiar with. She was afraid to step outside of her comfort zone in research because she was afraid to fail. This kept her from trying new and challenging things. For one project, Martha planned to study female choice in a type of lizard and how it impacts speciation. It was a high-risk project and a contentious topic in the literature. Martha designed a neuroscience study where she would examine the activity in particular regions of the lizard brain associated with mate choice, learned some new research methods, and began conducting experiments. Unfortunately, things weren’t working. She was so hesitant to give up on the project because she had invested so much, she didn’t want to fail, and she didn’t want to let her advisor down. Finally, Martha’s advisor had a meeting with her, and he told her that it was time to let that project go. For Martha, getting over her fear of failure took a few years, despite having excellent mentorship and support. However, it was so liberating when she realized that it was okay if things didn’t go as planned in her research.
A Shining Success! (35:01)
Every day that Martha has the opportunity to do science and work on something she is passionate about is a success. When she first started as a faculty member, it was difficult to suddenly take on the new responsibilities of running an independent research lab and managing the people in the lab. This is something that most scientists aren’t really trained to do in graduate school or postdoctoral fellowships. In the past few years, it has been really rewarding to see progress in her mentorship. The students in Martha’s lab are growing their confidence and intellectual independence, and it is exciting to see them transforming into independent intellectual scholars.
Book Recommendations (3:42)
The Trial by Franz Kafka and One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez
Most Treasured Travel (38:15)
Martha will never forget her first field expedition in 2005. She visited Indonesia and conducted research on a live-aboard vessel there for a few weeks. They were exploring the coral reefs and sampling different organisms for a genetic study. After spending her childhood in the New York City area and going to college in Boston, this was her first experience being completely immersed in nature. The first time she jumped into the water, there were two large humphead wrasse fish about ten feet away from her, and it felt so different from the world she knew. One morning while Martha was snorkeling in the shallows, she realized that there were no houses or people visible on the nearby shore. Everything was so quiet. Suddenly, the local call to prayer resounded through the air, its beautiful song joining the sounds of the water and the birds. Another moment from this trip that Martha will never forget was going on a night dive. She was relatively new to scuba, so diving in the dark was intimidating. The dive master instructed Martha that after they were about 30 feet under the surface, he would make a signal over his flashlight, and this was Martha’s cue to turn off her own flashlight. When that moment came, Martha hesitated. It was the middle of the night, and without her light, she couldn’t see the surface above her or the ocean floor below. She finally switched off her flashlight. After a few moments, she was captivated by a dazzling display of bioluminescent larvae. The entire sea around her seemed to light up with hues of blue, orange, and pink.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (43:35)
Over the years, Martha has had a wonderful time with her colleagues in science. She has enjoyed crafting costumes and dressing up as her study organisms for Halloween, as well as other great lab traditions. Whenever she attends a scientific conference, she looks forward to hearing the presentations and engaging with the people in her research field, as well as getting together with fellow scientists outside of the main conference events. During field research, Martha works really hard, but she also makes sure to plan activities outside of work like enjoying a good meal, meeting local people, going out to restaurants, and going dancing. She did her dissertation research in the Dominican Republic, and it was fun to explore the natural beauty there, make friends, go out dancing, and make memories around the science she was doing.
Advice For Us All (47:47)
When you don’t look like the typical scientist or researcher in your field, it is easy to feel alienated or feel like you need to change who you are or how you interact with the world in order to be successful. You don’t need to change yourself to fit into science. By being in science and being yourself, you are making science broader. From her grandmother, Martha learned what it is to feel loved and how to love unconditionally. She learned the value of hard work and determination from her mother. Martha’s grandaunt taught her how to face adversity and to find hope and happiness in really difficult times. From her aunt, she learned how to fathom the impossible and believe she could achieve the boldest of her dreams. Make sure to surround yourself with people who lift you up and bring out your best. Always try to give your best to the people around you as well.
Guest Bio
Evolution is not a uniform process: in some cases, evolution happens at warp speed, whereas in others it is surprisingly sluggish. Martha’s research centers on discovering the motors and brakes of evolution. She integrates approaches in behavioral ecology, comparative phylogenetics, and biomechanics to uncover the pacemakers for evolution. She discovers how animals interact with their environments, and why those interactions scale up to repeatable patterns over deep evolutionary time. Her discoveries inform contemporary issues like global climate change and bioinspired engineering. If you’d like to learn more about Martha’s research, she is giving a talk on August 12th for EvoEcoSeminars, a digital platform providing free access to scientific research. Outside the lab, Martha enjoys spending time outdoors, hiking and camping. Her hobbies include travel, dance, and tabletop games. In her free time, she is likely to be found at a natural history museum, at home with a book, or trekking outdoors with her German Shepherd. She regularly flocks to her hometown, New York City, to visit family, and she loves spending quality time with her niece.

*This episode was originally released on June 15, 2020.
The post 872: Dr. Martha Muñoz: Uncovering the Mechanisms Underlying Uneven Rates of Evolution Across Organisms appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
52 min
June 29 871: Dr. Steven Platt: Committed to Conserving and Reintroducing Crocodile and Turtle Species
Dr. Steven Platt is a Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) Herpetologist for Southeast Asia. He received his BSc. in Forestry and Wildlife Management from Louisiana State University, his MSc. in Biology from Southeastern Louisiana University, and his PhD in Zoology from Clemson University. Afterwards, Steve worked for WCS from 1996 – 2001. In 2001, Steve transitioned to working in academia. He served on the faculty at Oglala Lakota College in South Dakota for about five years, followed by five years as a faculty member at Sul Ross State University in Texas. In 2011, he accepted his current position and returned to WCS. In this interview, Steve shares more about his life and his work in research and conservation.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:23)
When he’s not working, Steve spends his time reading, going for walks outside, birdwatching, and hunting. He also used to raise chickens as a hobby. Birdwatching is a particular passion, and he aspires to one day see an ivory-billed woodpecker in the wild.
The Scientific Side (3:52)
Steve is a crocodile and turtle biologist who studies these animals in the field and in captivity. Many species of crocodiles and turtles are endangered, and Steve is dedicated to better understanding and conserving them.
A Dose of Motivation (4:57)
“Endeavor to persevere.” — Chief Dan George (playing Lone Watie) in the 1976 film The Outlaw Josey Wales
“You may ask of me anything but time.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
What Got You Hooked on Science? (9:02)
Though he can’t remember exactly when he got interested in biology and wildlife, Steve was an avid reader from an early age. He particularly enjoyed books written by the famous field biologist George Schaller. Steve believes that his passion for science and field work may trace back to his genes since his biological mother was also a wildlife biologist, though he didn’t meet her until later in life. As a kid, Steve spent a lot of time outdoors exploring local creeks and ponds, and catching turtles and snakes.
When thinking about potential careers, Steve briefly considered becoming a veterinarian, but quickly realized in college that this wasn’t the fit he was looking for. He switched his major to forestry and wildlife management and never looked back. Steve studied alligators during his masters degree and then did an internship researching crocodiles in Australia. During his PhD, Steve worked on a crocodile species in Belize, and this was his first time working with the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS). These projects and the people he met opened doors to even more great opportunities. After a decade in academia, Steve returned to WCS and continues to lead important work conserving crocodiles and turtles in Asia.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (21:09)
Towards the end of 2016, Steve was working with an excellent team in Myanmar, and there was a large confiscation of big-headed turtles. These turtles are delicate, and they were in terrible condition when they were discovered. Steve was away doing field research at the time, but when he heard the news, he rushed back to help. Despite the best efforts of Steve’s team and the expert veterinarians from around the world who joined them, many of the turtles could not be saved. They were overwhelmed with the sheer number of turtles (about 1,000) and the amount of care they required. Losing so many animals was heartbreaking and demoralizing. However the team met with the Forest Department and established rigorous new protocols that quickly proved their worth in the next large confiscation event, where the survival rates were much higher.
A Shining Success! (26:06)
Steve works with really talented colleagues, and they’ve had some very encouraging successes. In Myanmar, the Star Tortoise was effectively extinct in the wild by 2001. Working with the Forest Department there, they began breeding the tortoises in captivity. The captive breeding program really took off when Dr. Kalyar Platt, Steve’s wife, began leading these efforts. From the initial 175 animals that they started with, they now have about 12,000-14,000 animals in captivity. Even more exciting is the fact that their work to reintroduce these tortoises in wildlife sanctuaries has been highly successful.
Their work on the Burmese Roofed Turtle is another meaningful success. From fewer than 25 known turtles combined in the wild and captivity, new populations have been discovered. A captive breeding program was established, and it has been really rewarding to see these turtles hatch and then later be reintroduced in the wild. This project hasn’t been without challenges, but saving these animals from likely extinction has been a major achievement.
Book Recommendations (32:58)
Grizzly Years: In Search of the American Wilderness by Doug Peacock, The American Chestnut: An Environmental History by Donald Edward Davis, The Sounds of Life: How Digital Technology Is Bringing Us Closer to the Worlds of Animals and Plants by Karen Bakker, any book by George Schaller.
Most Treasured Travel (35:23)
One place that Steve absolutely loves is Belize. He met some wonderful people in the country during the early stages of career, and he really loved his time working on crocodiles there. Another place that tops Steve’s list is Myanmar. His wife and children are Burmese, and they have a big family there. Residents around Steve’s field sites have stopped him in the streets to take photos because international visitors are so rare. The people there are incredibly friendly too. For example, he was treated to tea and local food by one woman and her husband when they heard about him staying in the village. Professionally, the biodiversity in Myanmar is remarkable, and there is still so much to learn about the turtles and crocodiles there.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (38:47)
When Steve and a close colleague worked together in Belize, they had many unforgettable adventures catching crocodiles at night. A lot of work goes into making arrangements to go out on the boat to collect the animals, and some nights they didn’t manage to catch any. This inevitably led them to become very superstitious. After a really successful night, they often tried to use the same pole and the same snare on the next outing to hopefully boost their luck. Logically, they knew this made no difference, but it became a tradition.
Steve also used to bring his dog named Trouble on their expeditions, and Trouble was great at tracking down turtles. They spent 18 years together and shared a lot of wonderful memories. On one occasion, Steve took a boat of tourists staying at the local lodge out with him to catch crocodiles. The group caught a particularly large crocodile that night and struggled mightily to get it on the boat. Between Trouble’s barking, concerned tourists, and an even more concerned lodge manager, there was quite a scene. This was the origin story of the “Rambo scale” of chaos that became an inside joke between Steve and his colleague.
Advice For Us All (45:02)
Sometimes, you really need to focus. It can be easy to get distracted by tangents, but maintaining focus and making progress on your core projects is critical, particularly in the early stages of your scientific career. At the same time, follow your interests. While you may not make a ton of money as a field biologist, it is a fun, rewarding, and immensely interesting career. Pursue work that you are passionate about because you are going to spend most of the waking hours of your life working. And finally, remember that conservation is very important, and it’s not necessarily a losing battle. There are many inspiring conservation success stories, and we can still make a difference and prevent species from going extinct.
Guest Bio
Steve’s early research spanned the ecology of Morelet’s crocodile (Crocodylus moreletii) and a nationwide survey of the endangered American crocodile (Crocodylus acutus) in Belize. Since then, he has worked for WCS on crocodile and turtle conservation in various countries in Southeast Asia, including Myanmar, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, and China. He spent a decade working in academia before returning to Myanmar to continue conservation work with his wife Dr. Kalyar Platt. In Myanmar, Steve has been involved in efforts to reintroduce Burmese Star Tortoises (Geochelone platynota) into protected areas and work along the upper Chindwin River to save the Burmese Roofed Turtle (Batagur trivittata) from extinction. He has also played an important role in the Cambodia Program on Southern River Terrapin (Batagur affinis) and Siamese crocodile (Crocodylus siamensis) conservation. In China, Steve has been reintroducing and monitoring Chinese alligators (Alligator sinensis) with Professor Lu Shunqing. He has co-authored numerous scientific papers on crocodilians and turtles over the years. In his free time, you can find Steve reading, travel, bicycling, and enjoying the outdoors on walks.
The post 871: Dr. Steven Platt: Committed to Conserving and Reintroducing Crocodile and Turtle Species appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
50 min
June 22 870: Dr. Sharlene Santana: Determining the Drivers of Diversity in Bats and Other Mammals
Dr. Sharlene Santana is Associate Professor in the Department of Biology at the University of Washington and Curator of Mammals at the University of Washington’s Burke Museum of Natural History and Culture. She completed her undergraduate training in biology at the University of the Andes in Venezuela, and she was awarded her Ph.D. in Organismic and Evolutionary Biology from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Afterwards, Sharlene conducted postdoctoral research at the Institute for Society and Genetics at the University of California, Los Angeles. She joined the faculty at the University of Washington in 2012. In our interview, Sharlene shares more about her life and research.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:24)
Sharlene loves trying new restaurants in Seattle, as well as traveling to other countries and learning about other cultures. In her free time, you can find Sharlene hiking or swimming with her dog, attending ballet performances, and listening to music and podcasts. She is also a fan of good storytelling in books, movies, TV series, and documentaries.
The Scientific Side (3:46)
As an integrative and evolutionary biologist, Sharlene explores questions about evolution from a variety of perspectives. She is working to understand why some groups of organisms are more diverse in terms of their number of species, appearance, or behavior. There are over 1,400 species of bats that fulfill a variety of ecological roles, and much of Sharlene’s research focuses on diversity in bats.
A Dose of Motivation (7:39)
“Everything changes.”
What Got You Hooked on Science? (10:09)
Sharlene was drawn to animals and the natural world early on in her childhood. She grew up in the tropics in Venezuela, and she had a large backyard, so she was surrounded by wildlife. In college, she chose to pursue the biology track, and her initial plan was to specialize in molecular biology. However, as Sharlene had opportunities to do field research and learn more about evolution, anatomy, and behavior, her interests shifted. Each student had to do a research thesis, and Sharlene worked on a project with a professor who studied bats. She was quickly hooked. Through her experience doing field research on a tropical fruit bat, Sharlene developed a solid understanding of what it was like to be a scientist, and she was convinced that this was the career she wanted to pursue.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (16:12)
While working in the field in Costa Rica, Sharlene and her team endured an entire month where it seemed like everything went wrong. During their trip, Costa Rica experienced the wettest July in the past 60 years. It was nearly constantly pouring rain every day and night. They started this trip with ambitious goals of collecting plant samples during the day, collecting bat samples at night, and doing behavioral experiments. Unfortunately, they weren’t able to collect as many plants as planned because the forest trails were flooded and there was a constant threat of falling branches and debris. They also couldn’t collect bats most nights because bats typically don’t fly and forage for food during heavy rain. It was frustrating and demoralizing. However, Sharlene and her lab adapted to the situation they were facing. They managed to collect some data whenever there was a break in the rain, and they reshaped their ideas and projects as they determined what would be feasible. Further, Sharlene made the most of the time spent sitting in her cabin waiting for the rain to stop. She wrote a fellowship application to do more related research, and she ultimately received this fellowship award. As a result, Sharlene was able to return later to continue research in this area.
A Shining Success! (19:11)
Recently, Sharlene was awarded funding by the National Science Foundation for one of her grant applications. This is an exciting collaborative project that will take her research in a new direction. Her prior work has predominantly examined how external factors, such as anatomy and behavior, shape evolution in bats and other mammals. However, this new project will investigate the genetics underlying the development of bat teeth, how genetic factors affect the diversity of dental shapes in bats, and the relationships with diet. After having submitted this series of studies unsuccessfully a few times previously, being able to finally dive into this research is particularly thrilling.
Book Recommendations (27:10)
Lab Girl by Hope Jahren
Most Treasured Travel (28:14)
Panama is among the most memorable places Sharlene has visited. She went for the first time in graduate school, and she conducted field research there for several months at the Smithsonian Field Station on the island of Bocas Del Toro. The amount of biodiversity packed into such a small space, both in the land and in the water, was absolutely remarkable. There were also beautiful beaches within walking distance with excellent opportunities for snorkeling. It was paradise.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (32:07)
Sharlene’s PhD mentor planned a big Superbowl party at her house each year when Sharlene was in graduate school. Even though the lab wasn’t particularly interested in football, it was a fun way to build camaraderie, hang out, meet everyone’s families, and talk about things outside of science. Having grown up in another country, it was also fun for Sharlene to experience this tradition for the first time. In her current lab, Sharlene tries to get her lab members together for a barbecue each year, they plan lab retreats in the San Juan Islands off the coast of Washington, and they also do a lot of great outreach events with the Burke Museum of Natural History.
Advice For Us All (35:58)
Perseverance and adaptability are critical in science, particularly in our world where things are always changing and failures are common. Also, right now, it is critical that we all follow the measures necessary to contain the current global pandemic. This means washing your hands, wearing a mask, helping your community, and following the advice of experts.
Guest Bio
Sharlene’s research focuses on understanding why some groups of mammals (particularly bats) are more diverse than others. As an integrative biologist, she combines expertise from multiple fields, including evolutionary biology, behavioral ecology, comparative anatomy, and biomechanics. While most of her work takes place in her lab at the University of Washington, it also involves fieldwork in biodiverse places like Costa Rica and Panama. Sharlene’s current projects examine various external and internal factors that may have driven the diversification of bats, or of highly diverse groups within bats. These include the anatomical and biomechanical specialization of the skull for different sensory and feeding strategies, the evolution of frugivory, and the facilitation of morphological change by development. Outside of work, Sharlene enjoys exploring the beautiful Pacific Northwest with her husband and dog, reading books, watching movies and documentaries, listening to music and podcasts, attending ballet performances, and traveling to exotic places.

*This episode was originally released on August 24, 2020.
The post 870: Dr. Sharlene Santana: Determining the Drivers of Diversity in Bats and Other Mammals appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
38 min
June 15 869: Dr. Ashok Shetty: Developing Extracellular Vesicle Treatments to Address Brain Aging and Inflammation
Dr. Ashok K. Shetty is a University Distinguished Professor in the Department of Cell Biology and Genetics and Associate Director of the Institute for Regenerative Medicine at Texas A&M University, Naresh Vashisht College of Medicine. Ash earned his Ph.D. in Neuroscience from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences in New Delhi, and he completed postdoctoral research at Montana State University and Duke University. Afterward, he joined the faculty at Duke University in the Division of Neurosurgery. He joined the faculty at Texas A&M University College of Medicine in 2011. In 2024, he was honored with the University Distinguished Professor Award from Texas A&M University, and he has also received the College of Medicine’s Senior Research Excellence Award. In addition, Ash is a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the American Society for Neural Transplantation and Repair. He has received the Research Career Scientist Award from the United States Department of Veterans Affairs, has been recognized among the “World’s Top 1% of Scientists” across all scientific fields, and he was the 2025 honoree of Fast Company’s World Changing Ideas. In this interview, Ash shares details about his life and his work in science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (3:17)
Science takes up a lot of Ash’s time, but when he’s able to get a moment to himself, he enjoys spending time with family, cycling on a stationary bicycle, playing brain games like Sudoku, and going out to see movies at the theater.
The Scientific Side (4:44)
Ash is developing treatments for neurological and neurodegenerative disorders using stem cells and stem cell-derived products, such as extracellular vesicles. These are tiny vesicles secreted by stem cells that carry microRNAs and proteins. Once they make their way into the brain, they can induce beneficial changes in neural cells to improve brain function.
A Dose of Motivation (6:02)
“Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.” — Thomas Edison
“Believe you can and you are halfway there.” — Roosevelt
“The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.” — Steve Jobs
What Got You Hooked on Science? (9:01)
Growing up in a small rural town in southern India, Ash never imagined a career in research. Inspired by his dad’s career as a schoolteacher, he aimed to become a college lecturer. After earning a master’s degree in medical sciences and beginning as a lecturer in human anatomy, Ash’s fascination with neuroanatomy and the mysteries of the brain sparked his passion for neuroscience. He soaked up knowledge from all the textbooks and turned next to reading original research articles in the library. Ash’s curiosity continued to grow, and he decided to pursue a PhD. His early research focused on cell therapies using dopamine-producing cells.
Ash went abroad to the U.S. to continue his training as a postdoc, and his research branched out into brain development. Missing his earlier research on cell therapies, Ash moved to Duke University where he studied the use of neural cell transplants for repair after brain injury. He added neural stem cells to his research when they became more prevalent in the field, and he continues to use stem cells, as well as stem cell-derived neural cells and extracellular vesicles, in his work today.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (23:15)
When he was starting his research lab, Ash got his first big NIH R01 research grant on the very first submission. While Ash’s colleagues joked about his beginner’s luck, he was thrilled to get to work on his experiments. However, Ash was so focused on the work for his current proposal that he wasn’t thinking about the next steps for his research. So, when it was time to renew his grant, Ash didn’t have enough preliminary data to support his new ideas. His renewal application was rejected without reviewers even discussing it. Ash was devastated.
With his funding running out, Ash could no longer support the postdoc and technician in his lab. Suddenly, the lab was just him. This was a difficult period for Ash, but with his remaining funding from a grant from the Department of Veterans Affairs, he did some new experiments, gathered preliminary data, and submitted three different R01 proposals over a period of 18 months. In the end, Ash got two R01 grants funded at nearly the same time, and he has been successful in keeping his research well-funded ever since.
A Shining Success! (25:56)
Recently, Ash was notified that one of his lab’s original research articles published in 2023 received the highest number of citations during the two year period after it was published, and it was selected to win the 2026 Brain, Behavior, and Immunity Impact Award. This award will be presented at the 2026 PsychoNeuroImmunology Research Society Annual Meeting in New Orleans. The paper received more than 100 citations within the first two years after publication. Though Ash and his team knew it was a very good paper with innovative data, they didn’t anticipate it would become so popular. The recognition was a nice surprise, and they are looking forward to celebrating after the award is presented.
Book Recommendations (27:50)
Principles of Neural Science by Eric Kandel
Most Treasured Travel (29:01)
One of Ash’s favorite scientific conference trips was to Crete, Greece. There, he loved the beautiful scenery, the remarkable beaches, and the fantastic Mediterranean food and wine. Since Crete is a relatively small island, you can see much of it within a day or two of exploration. Another memorable trip brought Ash to Taormina in Sicily, Italy. The Italian food and wine were delicious. Taormina is also a beautiful place with wonderful beaches and great sightseeing opportunities. At both meetings, Ash had a chance to share his research, get feedback from peers, see new places, and experience different cultures. Ash had great conversations with fellow scientists, and the conferences also had built-in time for attendees to get outside and enjoy the local sites.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (31:51)
In one of the previous labs where Ash worked, they had a publication ritual for each new paper. When his first paper was accepted, his advisor announced the publication and took Ash and the other co-authors out to a local bar. They discussed his progress towards his next paper over beer, and this was the first time that Ash had experienced something like this. In his own lab, they celebrate new publications by going out to lunch or dinner, and they have a monthly lab happy hour to bring everyone together to bond outside of work.
Advice For Us All (35:50)
Research sometimes generates unexpected results. Don’t stress about the outcomes of your experiments. Focus on the process. When you get the results, do your best to interpret whatever you see. Also, read a lot within your field, because ideas come from reading. Follow your curiosity, and choose a research topic you truly care about, rather than picking something just because it is popular.
Guest Bio
Ash’s research is dedicated to developing therapies that slow brain aging and combat Alzheimer’s disease by reducing brain inflammation. A recent study in his lab found that intranasally administered stem cell-derived vesicles in middle age reprogram microglia, the brain’s immune cells, resulting in reduced neuroinflammation and improved cognition later in life. This approach could potentially delay memory decline and prevent Alzheimer’s if applied at the right time in humans. Earlier, Ash’s team demonstrated that these vesicles can calm overactive microglia and astrocytes, slowing cognitive decline and preventing mood disturbances in a model of early-onset Alzheimer’s disease. Additionally, the lab showed that these vesicles protect human neurons from amyloid beta-42, a toxic protein linked to synaptic and neuronal loss in Alzheimer’s disease. Looking ahead, the lab plans to expand its research to include models of late-onset Alzheimer’s, the most common form of the disease, and to test the efficacy of stem cell-derived extracellular vesicles when administered in the middle and advanced stages of the disease. These ongoing studies are designed to determine whether this promising treatment can benefit patients even after the disease has progressed, ultimately aiming to improve quality of life for those at risk or affected by Alzheimer’s disease. Outside of work, Ash is committed to maintaining both mental and physical well-being. He enjoys challenging his mind with brain games like Sudoku and Quartiles and keeps physically active through light weightlifting and biking. Ash also has a passion for travel, both nationally and internationally, and actively participates in scientific conferences.

Support for this episode of People Behind the Science was provided by Innovative Research, Inc.
The post 869: Dr. Ashok Shetty: Developing Extracellular Vesicle Treatments to Address Brain Aging and Inflammation appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
40 min
June 08 868: Dr. Ayse Turak: Engineering Affordable Organic Electronics to Power and Light the World
Dr. Ayse Turak is Associate Professor and Associate Undergraduate Chair of the Department of Engineering Physics at McMaster University. Ayse received her B.Sc. in Metallurgical and Materials Engineering from Queens’s University and her PhD from the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at the University of Toronto, where she was a Canada Graduate Scholar. Afterwards, Ayse conducted research as a Marie Curie Fellow at the Max Planck Institute for Metals Research and subsequently worked as a visiting professor at Sabanci University in Istanbul, Turkey before joining the faculty at McMaster University. Ayse has received numerous awards and honors throughout her career, including the Early Researcher Award, the Petro-Canada Young Innovators Award, and a Leadership in Teaching and Learning Fellowship from McMaster University. In addition, she was recently nominated as a Full member at Sigma Xi, and she is the co-chair of the Canadian Chapter of the Society of Information Display. In our interview, Ayse shares more about her life and research.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:34)
In her free time, Ayse loves to travel, visit new places, see new things, explore new cultures, and seek adventure. She also enjoys theatre, writing, and volunteering with various social justice organizations.
The Scientific Side (3:44)
Ayse develops and studies plastic-based electronic materials, such as solar cells and light-emitting diodes. Her goal is to create affordable, sustainable, and ubiquitous plastic materials to provide power and light for people around the world.
A Dose of Motivation (6:58)
“There is lots of room at the bottom of the scale.” – Richard Feynman
What Got You Hooked on Science? (10:12)
Ayse’s father was a chemical engineer who worked in the petroleum and coal industry. Her family immigrated to Canada from Turkey when she was three years old, and he worked initially as a coal extraction engineer. He later accepted a position with Alberta Energy and did work in photovoltaics (the conversion of light to energy using semiconducting materials). Ayse’s family always encouraged her curiosity, and she remembers following her dad around the lab and doing mini experiments with his colleagues. In junior high, Ayse and a friend visited her friend’s father’s chemistry lab to practice the titrations they were doing in class, and it was a lot of fun. Up until she went to college, Ayse was convinced that she wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. However, she completely changed her trajectory after taking a chemistry class taught by an amazing professor. The class included optional lectures on materials science, and Ayse was captivated by the content of these lectures. She changed her major to materials science and never looked back. After finishing college, Ayse spent eight months traveling around Europe and Turkey before starting graduate school. This was a phenomenal experience, and she entered graduate school reinvigorated and ready to start her graduate training.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (28:32)
During her postdoctoral fellowship, Ayse had an opportunity to perform experiments at a synchrotron facility about an hour away from their lab. It was common for people in the lab to visit the facility and use the high energy electrons to do x-ray diffraction to determine the structure of materials they were working on. However, since the facility was in such high-demand, it was difficult to get a time slot to do experiments. Before going there for the first time, Ayse spent months planning, and she worked around the clock in the days before the trip to get her samples ready. When she arrived in the morning, Ayse spent a few hours setting up her experiment. Once everything was running, she went out to grab a quick meal with colleagues. When she returned, everything was a disaster. Her experiments hadn’t run, she had no data, and she was distraught. Ayse went to her room, and as soon as she sat on her bed, the bed collapsed under her. After leaving a tearful and distressed phone message for her parents, Ayse went to sleep. When she returned to the facility the next morning, Ayse learned from a technician that a transformer had exploded, causing the beam to go down and all of the experiments to crash. She was able to reset her experiment and get some data, but it was a traumatic experience. Though the technician assured her that this had never happened before, and it was a highly unlikely event, the same thing happened when Ayse returned to the facility about 4 weeks later. In these incidents where the circumstances were completely beyond Ayse’s control, it was important to take a step back, get some perspective, and try again.
A Shining Success! (34:19)
Recently, Ayse and one of the students in her lab did some preliminary experiments in their lab, and though the results were promising, they were not yet ready to publish. She planned a visit to the lab of one of their collaborators in Austria to confirm their results and obtain a clear spectrum to include in their paper. They only had three weeks to set everything up, prepare the samples, and collect the necessary data, so Ayse and the student worked frantically to get everything done in time. The sample preparation procedure is complex and finicky, and the first time they tried to collect data, it didn’t work. On the second to the last day, Ayse left to visit other colleagues in the Czech Republic, and while she was gone, the student got everything to work! He wrote to her to share the fantastic news, and Ayse was so excited. The visit to Austria was extremely productive, and it was wonderful to see her student succeed after all the hard work that went into this project.
Book Recommendations (36:35)
How To Travel With A Salmon: and Other Essays by Umberto Eco, Six Characters in Search of an Author by Luigi Pirandello, and By the Sword by Mercedes Lackey.
Most Treasured Travel (40:17)
Ayse has had so many wonderful travel experiences for science. Prior to accepting a position as a visiting professor at Sabanci University in Istanbul, Turkey, Ayse served on the thesis committee for one of the students there. She flew to Istanbul to attend the defense, and it was an amazing experience. After the defense, they decided to have İskender, a renowned dish in Turkey, and they decided to visit the original İskender shop in Bursa. After a long drive and a ferry ride in the summer heat, they finally made it. All of the committee members came and the student came as well. It was a fun adventure on Ayse’s whirlwind trip to Turkey.
On another particularly memorable trip, Ayse traveled to Brussels to attend a conference. While she was there, she took time to visit the Atomium. The Atomium is a remarkable building and science museum built for the 1958 World’s Fair. Ayse’s grandmother attended the World’s Fair in 1958, and she gave a small replica model of the building to Ayse’s father as a gift. Ayse remembers always seeing the Atomium model on her father’s desk when she would visit him. It is a really cool-looking building in the shape of an array of atoms. When Ayse visited the Atomium, she bought a replica for her own desk, and she was honored when her father passed down his own Atomium model to her when she accepted her faculty position at McMaster University. Now, she keeps them both on her desk, and being able to see this landmark in person was one of the most amazing experiences of her life.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (44:00)
While a postdoc at the Max Planck Institute for Metals Research, Ayse worked with a fun, creative, and diverse group of people. Their department attended beer festivals together, went out to parties and dance all night, and her colleagues often shared delicious food from their cultures. In terms of lab traditions, Ayse was introduced to a great tradition during a visit to a colleague’s lab in Austria. Whenever a student or postdoc finishes their time in the lab, the student throws a dart or pen into the ceiling. They then draw a circle around where it sticks in the ceiling and write their name and the date. The ceiling tiles serve as a tangible record of who has been in the lab. When the lab moved or was renovated, the ceiling tiles were carefully cut out and framed, and the tradition continued in the new lab space.
Advice For Us All (48:14)
The person doing the experiment should be the expert on the project. Ayse continues to learn from her students and the work they are doing. Everyone should strive to continue learning. Also, never stifle your curiosity. Always ask questions, don’t accept everything you hear as fact, and try to prove things for yourself.
Guest Bio
Ayse’s research vision is to develop easy, versatile, and inexpensive methods of functionalizing surfaces and interfaces to tackle critical problems. Her main research passions are in organic/perovskite solar cells and light emitting diodes, to light the world and make cheap sustainable energy. By making solar and lighting products cheaper, more accessible, and more flexible, her research aims to have a huge impact on the way people use clean energy. To achieve this vision, the Turak group uses simple manufacturing approaches (reverse micelle deposition of nanoparticles), allows nature to dictate morphology (entropic self-assembly, beneficial dewetting), and develops widely applicable characterization tools (“MORPHOLOGIES” Monte Carlo simulation code, “dis-Locate” spatial order classification package, 3D printed environmental testing chamber). When she is not in the lab, Ayse can be found curled up with a good book, traveling to far-flung locals to snorkel with the fishes or at the theatre enjoying works by the latest playwrights. She and her wife enjoy watching the deer who regularly visits their backyard in Ontario, Canada.

*This episode was originally published on July 13, 2020.
The post 868: Dr. Ayse Turak: Engineering Affordable Organic Electronics to Power and Light the World appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
51 min

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