People Behind the Science Podcast

By Dr. Marie McNeelyScience

People Behind the Science Podcast episodes

June 02, 2025 815: Dr. Adam Summers: Fascinated by the Effects of Material Properties on the Form and Function of Fishes
Dr. Adam Summers is a Professor in the School of Aquatic and Fisheries Sciences and Department of Biology at the University of Washington, and he conducts research in his lab within the Friday Harbor Laboratories there. He completed his bachelor’s degree in mathematics and engineering at Swarthmore College, and afterwards worked as a SCUBA instructor in Australia. Adam next decided to pursue graduate school, receiving his master’s degree in Biology from New York University and his PhD in Organismic and Evolutionary Biology from the University of Massachusetts. He received a Miller Research Postdoctoral fellowship to conduct research at the University of California, Berkeley and went on to serve as a faculty member at UC, Irvine before joining the faculty at the University of Washington. Adam has been named a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. In addition, he was awarded the Bartholmew Prize for physiology research from the Society of Integrative and Comparative Biology, the UC, Irvine Academic Senate prize for undergraduate teaching, as well as the Directors award for program management excellence from the National Science Foundation. He also writes a monthly biomechanics column in Natural History Magazine and served as scientific advisor for the Pixar films “Finding Nemo” and the recently released sequel “Finding Dory”. Adam is here with us today to talk a little about his research and tell us all about his journey through life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:45)
Adam and his family live on a small island where they enjoy hiking and hanging out by the sea shore together. In addition, Adam is a licensed pilot, so you can often spot him spending his free time flying small planes.
The Scientific Side (3:29)
With a background in engineering and mathematics, Adam works on applying engineering and physics principles to living systems. He uses lessons from the natural world to develop solutions to real-world problems like how to filter things, stick to things, burrow in sand, and move quickly and efficiently under water.
A Dose of Motivation (6:26)
Adam is insatiably curious about how things work. Curiosity and the opportunity to learn new things are highly motivating forces.
What Got You Hooked on Science? (9:02)
Growing up, Adam spent his summers living in a remote lakeside cabin without running water or electricity. There he was completely surrounded by nature and animals. During the rest of the year, he lived in downtown Manhattan where he found ways to appreciate wildlife even in an urban setting. Adam didn’t realize he could have a career studying animals, so he pursued math and engineering in college, but the career options in these fields didn’t appeal to him. After college, Adam spent time as a SCUBA instructor in Australia. While there, he rediscovered his love of the natural world, met research scientists, and realized his interest in returning to school for a graduate degree in biology.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (21:02)
A recent project in the lab was stopped in its tracks due to the failure of a critical piece of equipment. He and a student were trying to figure out how much force is required for a particular fish to knock a particular mollusk off of a rock when the specialized force transducer they were using stopped working. This put the brakes on the study, and the student had to switch to a different project.
A Shining Success! (25:01)
Adam experienced a transcendent ah-ha moment working while investigating how well fish stick to different surfaces. He was struggling with perplexing results suggesting fish stuck equally well to surfaces with different levels of roughness, but didn’t stick as well to smooth surfaces. This didn’t make sense based on his understanding of how a suction cup should work and how suction cups fail. He realized then that fish use a different mode of sticking than the traditional man-made suction cup and thus they failed in a different way. This explained the results they had seen experimentally.
Book Recommendations (29:39)
City of Blades by Robert Jackson Bennett, Hostage by Robert Crais, Skyfaring: A Journey with a Pilot by Mark Vanhoenacker, The Coffee Trader by David Liss
Most Treasured Travel (31:25)
Adam will always remember his trip to the Rivillagigedo Islands, a small volcanic island archipelago 270 miles off the coast near Cabo San Lucas. These islands were recently designated World Heritage Site, and it is one of the few places where you can interact with giant manta rays. Adam visited the islands to study how manta rays filter particles that are smaller than the filter holes in their gill rakers. There Adam completed one of the most challenging recreational dives in his life. The water was very deep, and he was surrounded by hundreds of large marine animals, including mantas, sharks, and dolphins.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (36:26)
Adam recalls midnight strolls in graduate school through the basement fish collections where there were tens of thousands of fishes in bottles of ethanol. Guided by the light of his tiny flashlight he would gaze, enchanted, at the amazing variety of fishes. In Adam’s lab now, they have a 3D printer that is used to print samples of fish. He prints about 40-50 anatomically correct fish specimens per year that have a habit of mysteriously disappearing from the lab, likely ending up as souvenirs of students and visitors.
Advice For Us All (43:27)
As a faculty member, you should find a way to make your teaching serve your research. Teaching can take a lot of your time, so make sure to leverage it to also further your own knowledge. In addition, it is important to go out of your way to be kind and listen to your colleagues and students. If you do, everyone will benefit.
Guest Bio
Adam was raised in New York City and the north woods of Canada. At Swarthmore College he earned degrees in mathematics and engineering, but was not interesting in pursuing either as a career. While teaching SCUBA in Australia on the Great Barrier Reef he met his first professional biologists. He returned home to pursue graduate degrees in biology. From the beginning of his research career, Adam attempted to capitalize on previous training as an engineer to understand the evolution of the mechanical systems of animals. At the University of California, Berkeley he worked on the mechanics of salamander walking and the jaws of a particularly unusual group of limbless amphibians called caecilians. While at UCB he was approached by Pixar Studios to help with the movie “Finding Nemo”. He spent three years advising on animal movements and biological aspects of the film and was delighted when the hard work of the Pixar folks was so well received at the box office. In 2001 Adam founded the Biomechanics Laboratory at the University of California, Irvine. In 2009 he moved his laboratory to the University of Washington’s Friday Harbor Laboratories where he assumed the role of Associate Director. With students and collaborators he has published more than 70 articles in scientific journals on topics including the heads of hammerhead sharks, the properties of skeletons and difficulties of eating hard prey. He also enjoys sharing his enthusiasm for biomechanics with a monthly column in Natural History Magazine. Adam continues to teach an intensive graduate course in the biomechanics of fishes at FHL, and he is also prospecting for new classes of biomaterials from the sea.

*This episode was originally released on September 12, 2016.
The post 815: Dr. Adam Summers: Fascinated by the Effects of Material Properties on the Form and Function of Fishes appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
51 min
May 26, 2025 814: Dr. Sarah Gabbott: Uncovering the Secrets of Ancient Creatures By Studying Fossils and the Fossilization Process
Dr. Sarah Gabbott is a Professor of Palaeontology in the School of Geography, Geology, and the Environment at the University of Leicester. She is also Director of Green Circle Nature Regeneration CIC, a non-profit organization in the UK, and she is co-author of the recently released book Discarded: How Technofossils Will be Our Ultimate Legacy. Sarah completed her undergraduate degree in geology at the University of Southampton and was awarded her PhD in paleobiology from the University of Leicester. Afterwards, she remained at the University of Leicester as a postdoctoral fellow before joining the faculty there. She has received the President’s Award of the Geological Society of London, the Paleontological Association’s Annual Meeting President’s Prize, and numerous grant awards to support her research over the years. In our interview, Sarah shares insights and stories from her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:18)
Outside of the lab, you can often find Sarah out walking, riding around on her mountain bike, playing squash, birdwatching, or cooking.
The Scientific Side (3:42)
As a paleontologist, Sarah primarily studies the fossils of creatures that lived millions of years ago to better understand the evolution of life and the ecology of life through time. She examines the remains of ancient organisms in the fossil record to understand what they looked like, how they ate, what they ate, how they moved, and more.
A Dose of Motivation (5:25)
“The most difficult thing is the decision to act. The rest is merely tenacity.” – Amelia Earhart
What Got You Hooked on Science? (10:37)
Sarah’s interest in science began with a fascination with animals. As a kid, she spent hours reading about animals at the library and pouring over entries about animals in encyclopedias. Throughout her school years, Sarah enjoyed her science courses and thought she would pursue a career in biology. In high school, she enrolled in A-levels courses in biology, chemistry, and physics. It didn’t take long for Sarah to realize that physics was not a good fit for her. Scrambling for a back-up plan, Sarah discovered that a nearby school offered an A-level course in geology. After reading about volcanoes, plate tectonics, earthquakes, and fossils in books on geology from her local library, Sarah was captivated. She was delighted when the nearby school allowed her to join their A-level geology class. Sarah continued studying geology as an undergraduate student, and she was excited to secure a PhD position studying a newly discovered and amazingly well-preserved fossil deposit in South Africa. The fossils there included exceptional specimens with preserved soft tissue structures in addition to the bones, shells, and teeth which are more commonly present. She spent weeks digging in the field and splitting open shale to reveal the remains of an ancient sea floor that no one else had ever seen before. This experience was a thrill and further cemented Sarah’s desire to pursue a career in paleontology.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (24:58)
Beyond the usual challenges of getting papers, grants, and job applications rejected, Sarah faces a number of scientific challenges in her work. For example, she often does experiments in her lab to understand the processes that occur as an animal’s tissues decay over time. These experiments are instrumental for understanding the fossils she studies because the animals preserved as fossils have all gone through some degree of decay. In some cases, Sarah completed the whole process of setting an experiment up with plans to sample at certain intervals, and the actual timeline of decay was either way shorter or way longer than she expected. This can result in missing data from important timepoints or spending more time than she expected waiting for decay to occur. Sarah has learned that doing small pilot experiments first can save a lot of time and frustration.
A Shining Success! (17:24, 27:34)
Recently, Sarah published the results of a study that were 25 years in the making. During her PhD, she found a section of an unusual-looking fossil while splitting shale in South Africa. She returned to the cliff face where it was found and examined the stripes in the sediment until she found a match. From there, they dug out an incredible fossil of a segmented creature that wasn’t like anything Sarah had ever seen before. The fossil was transported to the UK, and Sarah continued studying it. She shared data in a few conference presentations and reached out to top experts in the field, but no one really had answers about what this specimen was. For the next 25 years, Sarah worked on this fossil on and off, and she finally had an epiphany after speaking with a colleague. The fossil looked so unusual because only the inside tissues were preserved after collapsing inwards. She was looking at the animal’s preserved muscles, gut, and other organs without seeing bones or a shell. After this revelation, the pieces began to fall into place. Sarah was excited to describe this new species, and she named it Keurbos susanae after her mother Sue.
Some of Sarah’s other research has examined the evolution of the vertebrate eye. A long-standing theory in the field suggested that the evolution of eyes in primitive vertebrates involved a slow accumulation of various eye-like structures over time. It was believed that hagfish, one of the most primitive living vertebrates, represented a missing link between creatures that could and couldn’t see. The hagfish living today are completely blind, but when Sarah began examining 300 million-year-old fossils of ancient hagfish, she found evidence of a retina full of pigment-making structures important for vision. This discovery overturned the prevailing theory for the evolution of the eye because these hagfish appear to have had vision capabilities millions of years ago, but they lost vision over time.
Book Recommendations (32:47)
The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver, Discarded: How Technofossils Will be Our Ultimate Legacy by Sarah Gabbott and Jan Zalasiewicz
Most Treasured Travel (38:13)
Doing field work in China has been remarkable. Sarah has visited the city of Kunming in the Yunnan province many times. While there, she has spent time in the city and then traveled out to rural China to their field sites, and the juxtaposition between the two is incredible. They study fossils there that are about 517 million years old, and the deposit provides an exquisite record of complex ecosystems and the diversity of life that existed on our planet at that time. The local farmers are paid to dig for fossils, so there have been many discoveries from that area. The people Sarah has met are wonderful, and the food is spicy and delicious.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (42:30)
On one memorable trip, Sarah and one of her PhD students flew to Chicago for a project that involved working in a museum as well as field work out in rural Illinois. They drove for hours from the city to a remote farm that was run by three brothers. Sarah’s goal was to collect specimens of 300 million year old nodules with remarkable fossils that had been found on the farmers’ land. When Sarah and their student arrived at the farmers’ house, they were surprised to see a large collection of guns on display, along with mounted specimens from hunting. The farmers were amazed when Sarah admitted she had never seen a gun in her life, and for the next three hours, they showed Sarah their full collection of all different kinds of guns. After having a good laugh at her lack of experience with firearms, the farmers showed her to their sheds full of fossil-containing nodules and told her to help herself to as many as she’d like. Doing field work has given her many opportunities to meet local people, and she has always been impressed by the similarities between people that span many cultures and how willing people have been to help her out.
Advice For Us All (48:40)
Have confidence in yourself, be authentic, and speak up. It’s okay to get things wrong or say things that others may disagree with. You’ll have to work hard to be a scientist, and there will be many obstacles and setbacks, but be confident and stay curious.
Guest Bio
Sarah is fascinated by the biology of ancient organisms and their ancestors. Her work has focused mostly on exceptionally well-preserved fossils that include organic features like muscles, organs, and other tissues. These tissues are absent in most fossils because they quickly rot away after death, but in rare cases, they can be transformed, through various processes, into geologically-stable materials. Examining these fossils and understanding how the remains have transformed after death and during fossilization can provide a detailed and comprehensive view of the anatomy of long-extinct animals. She uses a holistic approach, incorporating information from decay experiments in the lab about how the fossils formed, as well as details about where the animals lived and where fossilization occurred. Some of Sarah’s more recent work involves applying her expertise to study the fate of durable, man-made organic compounds like plastics. She has also turned her attention to the preservation of a much wider range of man-made materials and objects, from concrete and mobile phones through to fast food and books — these she calls “technofossils” — exploring what from our man-made world will survive into the fossil record and what it will say about us to future paleontologists. In their recent book, Discarded: How Technofossils Will be Our Ultimate Legacy, Sarah and co-author Jan Zalasiewicz (Emeritus Professor of Palaeobiology at University of Leicester) delve into this topic. Sarah’s overall research program combines laboratory experiments that model physical and chemical transformations with data collected from real-world samples to improve our understanding of how different processes lead to the preservation or loss of organic material. She enjoys spending time outdoors, whether she is working in the field or engaging in hobbies like walking, cycling, birdwatching, and playing squash in her free time. Sarah also loves cooking and is a big fan of Asian cuisine.
The post 814: Dr. Sarah Gabbott: Uncovering the Secrets of Ancient Creatures By Studying Fossils and the Fossilization Process appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
52 min
May 19, 2025 813: Dr. Jennifer Wargo: Investigating the Impacts of the Gut Microbiome on Immunotherapy Cancer Treatments
Dr. Jennifer Wargo is an Associate Professor in the Department of Surgical Oncology at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center and a Stand Up To Cancer researcher. She received her A.S. degree in nursing and B.S. degree in biology from Gwynedd-Mercy College. Afterwards, Jennifer attended the Medical College of Pennsylvania where she earned her M.D. Jennifer completed her Clinical Internship and Residency in General Surgery at Massachusetts General Hospital. Next, Jennifer was a Research Fellow in Surgical Oncology at the University of California, Los Angeles. She then accepted a Clinical Residency in General Surgery at Massachusetts General Hospital. From 2006-2008, Jennifer was a Clinical Fellow in Surgical Oncology at the National Cancer Institute of the National Institutes of Health. She then served on the faculty at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard University. In 2012, Jennifer received her MMSc. degree in Medical Science from Harvard University. Jennifer joined the faculty at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in 2013. She is Board Certified by the American Board of Surgery, and she has received numerous awards and honors throughout her career. These have included the R. Lee Clark Prize and Best Boss Award from the MD Anderson Cancer Center, the Rising STARS and The Regents’ Health Research Scholars Awards from the University of Texas System, the Outstanding Young Investigator and Outstanding Investigator Awards from the Society for Melanoma Research, as well as a Stand Up To Cancer Innovative Research Grant for her microbiome work. She has also received other awards for excellence in teaching, research, and patient care. In our interview, Jennifer shares more about her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (3:03)
When she’s not doing research or treating patients, Jennifer enjoys spending quality time with her family. Some of their favorite activities include going for walks, biking, hiking, and visiting the beach. Jennifer also likes to explore her creative side through art and photography, as well as to be active through running, biking, yoga, and surfing.
The Scientific Side (4:31)
Jennifer is a physician scientist, and this means she splits her time between providing care to patients and doing research to find better ways of treating disease. Specifically, Jennifer performs surgeries and treats patients one day each week. She spends the rest of her week studying how to better treat patients with cancer and how cancer may ultimately be prevented.
A Dose of Motivation (5:37)
“If I have seen further, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants.” – Sir Isaac Newton
What Got You Hooked on Science? (6:12)
Throughout her childhood and into high school, Jennifer was interested in art, science, and patient care. Jennifer’s mother was a nurse, and her father was a math teacher, so she grew up in an environment where she was encouraged to learn more and to help people. Jennifer recalls accompanying her mom on visits to see patients, and she was inspired by these interactions with patients. After high school, Jennifer pursued a degree in nursing and then worked for a few years as a nurse. While Jennifer enjoyed her career, she wanted to learn more about the science underlying diseases provide better treatments. With encouragement from a mentor, Jennifer applied to medical school. During medical school, she became interested in the immune system and the interactions between surgery and the immune system. Jennifer had the opportunity to work with patients with cancer during her residency, and these patients really inspired her. These elements led her to pursue research on the interface between the immune system and cancer.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (14:57)
Some of the most interesting results are unexpected. Jennifer previously conducted studies on pancreatic cancer and colon cancer to better understand why these types of cancer are highly resistant to chemotherapy. She and her colleagues were studying isolated cancer cells and treating them in the lab with chemotherapy drugs. One of the types of cells they were working with was infected with a type of bacteria that was breaking down the chemotherapy drugs. They were initially frustrated because they believed their experiments had become contaminated and that the data were not useful. However, when experiments don’t go as expected, it’s important to look deeper into why they didn’t work. Jennifer and her team began to wonder if a similar phenomenon might be happening inside the tumors of patients in real life. They have since confirmed multiple cases where tumors include bacteria and viruses that may contribute to cancer formation as well as resistance to chemotherapy.
A Shining Success! (20:04)
Over the years, Jennifer has had many wonderful people work in her lab, and it is rewarding to know that some of them are now leading their own research efforts. This has been an important success for Jennifer. In addition, seeing other research groups learn from her team’s studies and launch their own studies on the gut microbiome has been really exciting. Beyond academic impacts, it has been remarkable to watch the broader community becoming more interested in diet, the gut microbiome, and health as a result of the research they and others have done.
Book Recommendations (22:28)
I Contain Multitudes: The Microbes Within Us and a Grander View of Life by Ed Yong
Most Treasured Travel (23:23)
Dr. Jim Allison has been a great mentor to Jennifer, and she was honored to be among the guests he invited to travel with him to Stockholm, Sweden to witness the awarding of his Nobel Prize. Jim is an amazing, down-to-earth person, and he has helped change the lives of many patients through his groundbreaking work on immunotherapy. About 50 people accompanied Jim to Stockholm for the Nobel Ceremony, including fellow cancer researchers and the first patient who was cured with his immunotherapy treatments. It was wonderful to celebrate with everyone, and it was fun to attend the Nobel NightCap party afterwards and meet the other Nobel Laureates.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (29:23)
For Jennifer, it is really important to share the results of their research with her patients and to convey how their contributions are helping advance the field of cancer research. In addition, she makes sure to show her appreciation for her lab members when they are ready to graduate and move on to new opportunities. A student that recently finished his PhD was gifted a cowboy hat decorated with a poop emoji. Due to the nature of their gut microbiome research, there are a lot of poop emojis in the lab, and they even made lab t-shirts sporting the design.
Advice For Us All (33:20)
Love what you do. Try to find something that you love. If you do, it won’t feel like work. We all have a great ability and opportunity to make a big impact on this world. Seize that opportunity.
Guest Bio
Dr. Wargo’s career commitment is to advance the understanding and treatment of disease through science. After completing her Medical Degree, she entered surgical residency training at the Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts where she became interested in the biology and treatment of cancer. During her training, she completed two fellowships in Surgical Oncology with a focus on immunotherapy for cancer. Jennifer was recruited to the Division of Surgical Oncology at Massachusetts General Hospital in July 2008 and had an active research laboratory focusing on melanoma tumorigenesis and immunotherapy for cancer. In September 2013, Jennifer was recruited by University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center to help lead the Melanoma Moon Shot program. She is currently an Associate Professor of Surgical Oncology and Genomic Medicine, and she has continued her critical research to better understand responses to therapy and to develop novel strategies to combat resistance. This includes her groundbreaking recent work elucidating the role of the gut microbiome in shaping responses to immunotherapy in patients with melanoma – with a manuscript describing this work published in Science. She is recognized internationally as a leader in cancer research, and is leading innovative efforts globally.

*This episode was originally released May 20, 2019.
The post 813: Dr. Jennifer Wargo: Investigating the Impacts of the Gut Microbiome on Immunotherapy Cancer Treatments appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
36 min
May 12, 2025 812: Dr. Joseph Ryan: Studying the Evolutionary Diversity of Squishy Sea Creatures
Dr. Joseph Ryan is an Assistant Professor of Biology at the Whitney Laboratory for Marine Bioscience at the University of Florida. Joe received his PhD in bioinformatics from Boston University. Afterwards, he was awarded a research fellowship at the National Human Genome Research Institute at the National Institutes of Health and subsequently worked as a postdoctoral scholar at Sars International Centre for Marine Molecular Biology in Bergern, Norway. In our interview Joe shares more about his life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:00)
When he’s not at work, Joe loves spending time with his family. He and his two kids (one and three years old) enjoy dancing to “Tiny Bubbles” by Don Ho and songs by the band The Clash. Joe is also a fan of singer-songwriter Slim Whitman, and he plays guitar, drums, and keyboard.
The Scientific Side (3:16)
In the lab, Joe studies DNA from squishy marine invertebrates like ctenophores (e.g. comb jellies), cnidarians (e.g. jellyfish), tunicates (e.g. sea squirts), and sea cucumbers. His goal is to understand how different types of animals are related, how animals adapt to extreme environments, and how animals have evolved the extraordinary diversity we see today.
A Dose of Motivation (4:20)
“Ain’t the beer cold.” – Chuck Thompson
“Go to war, Miss Agnes!” – Chuck Thompson
What Got You Hooked on Science? (6:26)
Early on, Joe was more interested in English and history than science. He worked part time at a restaurant while going to college. After transferring between five colleges in Maryland, he graduated with an associate’s degree in general studies from a community college. Joe then launched a web design business in the mid 1990s with a friend from school, and they worked on a variety of website projects for different organizations. It was difficult to get their clients to pay them for their work, so Joe decided to do find another career. He applied for a contract computer programmer position at the NIH and was hired to make web calendar applications. Working at the NIH was Joe’s first introduction to research and what it was like to be a scientist. He helped process data for different research projects, but Joe’s supervisor told him that he didn’t have the background needed to do some of the more interesting projects. Joe began to look into how he could get that background, and he decided to go to graduate school. After the first two years of graduate school at Boston University, Joe was no longer funded by the program. He talked to his previous supervisor at the NIH and was able to transition to the NIH to finish his graduate work. Taking this non-traditional path to a career in science has been beneficial because Joe has a strong computational background, and he thinks about questions differently than some of the other researchers in his field.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (20:00)
Getting grant proposals rejected is a constant struggle. The review process for one of Joe’s proposals currently under review has been particularly frustrating. This is the fourth time they have submitted the proposal. The first time, they received excellent reviews, but the score for the proposal just missed the funding cut-off. In the subsequent two submissions, they received substantial negative feedback. Looking back, there were some issues they could have addressed better and with more detail. Joe is keeping his fingers crossed that this time their proposed project will be funded.
A Shining Success! (22:38)
Joe and a postdoctoral fellow in his lab have been thinking deeply about how to address an issue in science where two research groups can derive different results and conclusions from the same dataset. In their research area, there are many ways to analyze data and build phylogenetic trees, and new methods continue to be developed. What is needed is a process analogous to what occurs in clinical trials. In a clinical trial, the research team has to map out all of the steps that will be taken, including the statistics that will be run and the criteria that will be used to determine whether a hypothesis is correct. All of this information is submitted to a review board and approved before the work begins. Applying this process to other fields like phylogenetics may clear up some of the discrepancies that may be driven inadvertently by confirmation bias. Joe implemented this “phylotocol” process in his lab about a year ago, and it has been working really well. A paper on their first “phylotocol” was just published at the end of last year. It was really exciting because reproducibility in science has been a major focus in recent years, and this idea of transparency and accountability in science may be the next big step forward.
Book Recommendations (27:11)
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas
Most Treasured Travel (28:37)
In 2010, Joe traveled to Harvard University to attend the International Congress on Invertebrate Morphology. At the time, he was a postdoc at the NIH, and he was studying ptenophore bioluminescence. One of Joe’s colleagues wrote to a Harvard faculty member who was a pioneer in the field and was among the first to study bioluminescence in ptenophores. They were delighted when this renowned researcher offered to meet with them. When they visited, they enjoyed talking for hours about science, and it was exciting to see that this eminent scientist was really interested in their work. After their conversation, their host brought them over to see his lab. He led everyone into the walk-in incubator and turned off the light. It was really strange for Joe to be standing in a dark incubator with his colleagues and one of their scientific heroes. However, all of a sudden, their host began tapping on shelves and swirling flasks that contained these remarkable creatures and the whole room began to light up. They were surrounded by beautiful bioluminescent animals. This was an awe-inspiring experience. It prompted Joe and his colleagues not only to return to their own work with renewed energy and enthusiasm, but also to begin a quest to meet more amazing ptenophore biologists.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (31:53)
Joe’s lab has a running joke about their “fame-o-meter” that they use to chart how famous each discovery from their lab will make them. When someone gets a new result and talks about how exciting it is, another lab member typically makes a comment about how it ranks on the 10-point “fame-o-meter” scale. They’re not really aiming to be famous, and results often weigh in pretty low on the scale, but it’s fun and funny to put their work in the context of the likelihood of bringing them acclaim.
Advice For Us All (35:49)
Ideas are cheap. In Joe’s research field, there is so much more work to do than people to do the work. As a result, it makes sense to talk to colleagues about projects and share research ideas. This way, you can get even more great ideas and feedback than you would if you kept everything to yourself. It’s also more fun to be able to share your ideas and talk openly about your work.
Guest Bio
Joseph Ryan is an evolutionary biologist with expertise in genomics (DNA research) and phylogenetic analyses (building evolutionary trees). He integrates genomics and phylogenetics with a wide array of other disciplines (e.g., physiology, developmental biology, behavior, neurobiology), which he applies to a variety of marine invertebrate animals to better understand the evolutionary processes underlying the wonderful diversity of life on Earth. His family does their best to keep him from being completely sucked into a mega-nerd vortex.

*This episode was originally released on February 11, 2019.
The post 812: Dr. Joseph Ryan: Studying the Evolutionary Diversity of Squishy Sea Creatures appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
38 min
May 05, 2025 811: Dr. Jingchun Li: Investigating Clams with Photosynthetic Algae, Parasites in Mud Shrimp, and Other Species Interactions that Shape Evolution
Dr. Jingchun Li is an Associate Professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado Boulder, and she is the Curator of Invertebrates at CU Boulder’s Museum of Natural History. She is also a Packard Foundation Fellow and a National Geographic Explorer. Jingchun completed her B.S. in Biological Sciences at Capital Normal University in China and was awarded her PhD in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology from the University of Michigan. Next, Jingchun conducted postdoctoral research at Harvard University with support from an NSF Ocean Sciences Postdoctoral Research Fellowship. Afterwards, she joined the faculty at the University of Colorado Boulder. In our interview, Jingchun shares insights and stories from her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:18)
Some of Jingchun’s hobbies include rock climbing at a local gym with her lab members, spending time with her kids, watching musicals, reading, and playing board games like Setters of Catan.
The Scientific Side (3:58)
Jingchun studies how different species interact with each other and how that has influenced their evolution. Her work focuses mostly on mollusks like clams, scallops, cockles, snails, octopus, and squid. For example, she has recently been examining giant clams that use symbiotic algae to become photosynthetic. As a museum curator, Jingchuin manages the museum’s collection of nearly one million invertebrates. She is responsible for developing the collection, good stewardship, documenting relevant details about each specimen, and making specimens available to scientists and the public.
A Dose of Motivation (6:24)
One thing that motivates Jingchun is a desire to better understand weird things in nature. She is fascinated by the mysteries of the marine ecosystem and how much we still don’t know about it.
What Got You Hooked on Science? (9:31)
There weren’t many opportunities for Jingchun to immerse herself in nature in the city of Beijing where she grew up. However, in elementary school, she was introduced to the Adventure series books by Willard Price, and these books left a lasting impact. The fictional books chronicle the experiences of two brothers who travel the world collecting animals for their father’s zoo. They go on cool expeditions and also contribute to animal conservation. Reading the books inspired Jingchun to explore the world, see different animals, and take care of them. This made biology a natural choice when choosing a major in college. Afterwards, Jingchun participated in an internship with the Chinese Academy of Sciences where she worked in a great lab studying cave spiders and other cave creatures in Southern China. She was amazed by the species she saw and learned about, including eyeless cave shrimp. Jingchun was also thrilled by the opportunity to describe a new species the lab discovered. Together, these experiences motivated Jingchun to study evolutionary biology, and she continues her work in this field today.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (21:51)
A major challenge in Jingchun’s lab comes from not knowing where to collect certain organisms or how to find them. Many of the invertebrate systems she works on are understudied, so we know relatively little about them. They have to rely on past literature and museum collections to figure out where to go to find particular species, how their populations are distributed, and what habitats they live in. From there, they plan their field work to find the species, but there is still a lot of uncertainty. Having evidence that someone found the species in one place fifty years ago doesn’t guarantee that the species is still there today. To do field collections, Jingchun and her team have to apply for permits and go through a lot of planning. On one trip, She flew to Australia, spent three weeks looking for a species of interest in the areas they expected to find them, and they didn’t find a single one. The silver lining is that even if Jingchun doesn’t find the species she is looking for, she and her colleagues still learn new things about the ecosystem and habitat that they are exploring. They take an abundance of notes and photos, return with other interesting creatures, and learn new things about the environment. Also, knowing the species may not be there anymore is another valuable piece of information.
A Shining Success! (25:31)
In one of Jingchun’s projects, they are studying how parasitism impacts the ecology and evolution of a native species of mud shrimp. The mud shrimp live on the west coast of the U.S. and have been heavily impacted by an invasive parasite. The parasite lives in the shrimp’s gills, feeding off their blood and growing really big. Female shrimp with these parasites are no longer able to reproduce, and this could lead to a collapse of the population. Jingchun and her collaborators have been assessing the populations of these native shrimp to determine the infection rates and population declines. They have trudged through a lot of mud collecting data in California, Oregon, and Alaska. Their new knowledge provides a deeper understanding of the system and may allow them to develop monitoring or conservation strategies for the mud shrimp.
Book Recommendations (3:12)
Exhalation by Ted Chiang
Most Treasured Travel (29:43)
Last year, Jingchun spent six months in Western Australia doing field work on sabbatical. She conducted research, in collaboration with Dr. Lisa Kirkendale at the Western Australia Museum, to better understand the evolution of the symbiotic relationship between clams and their photosynthetic algae. This project focused on the heart cockle clam. Jingchun spent time examining the museum’s specimens, and they planned a 10-day field expedition to visit under-explored marine habitats across Western Australia to collect new specimens. The marine biodiversity that Jingchun saw while snorkeling and diving was remarkable. They found their target species, and the expedition represented a successful collaboration with local scientists and indigenous groups who live in the habitats of interest. Jingchun will never forget visiting Shark Bay, a UNESCO World Heritage site. The bay has areas of water with very high salt concentrations, which harbor unique clams. There are entire beaches made up of shells from these clams, and it was amazing to see these animals living in the wild. Jingchun brought some back to the lab to study their population genetic structures.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (34:25)
When Jingchun was a postdoc in Dr. Colleen Cavanaugh’s lab, they had a “wall of rejection”. This was an entire wall in Dr. Cavanaugh’s office showcasing her own rejection letters and those of her trainees. These included letters about unsuccessful submissions for job applications, research papers, grants, and other opportunities. Having these failures on display helped normalize the experience and show everyone in the lab that rejection is just part of the process in science.
Also, during her recent sabbatical in Australia, Dr. Kirkendale, Jingchun, her PhD student, and her postdoc had to drive nine hours to get to Shark Bay to do their field work. Three of the four were very into musicals, and one was not. So, for nine hours, three of them listened to musicals and sang their hearts out while Jingchun’s postdoc sat in the back of the car trying to ignore them and write a paper. Some of Jingchun’s favorite musicals are Les Misérables, Phantom of the Opera, and Wicked.
Advice For Us All (40:40)
Work with others as much as you can, particularly other people who have different opinions from you. This can lead to new inspiration and more creative projects. Nowadays, it’s hard to do science without collaboration. Alone, you only have knowledge about a narrow piece of the field. If you want to answer big questions, you need to get expertise from people who have different knowledge and expertise. Science cannot progress without working together as a community.
Guest Bio
Jingchun’s research program explores how biological interactions shape the distribution, ecology, and evolution of diverse organisms. Her lab primarily investigates marine mollusks—including clams, cockles—but also examines other systems, such as algae, plants, and bacteria. Using a multidisciplinary approach that integrates fieldwork, statistical analyses, and molecular techniques, she studies biodiversification at species, population, and genomic levels. As a curator, she is dedicated to bridging scientific research and public engagement through museum collections, exhibits, and programs. In her free time, Jingchun enjoys rock climbing, musicals, reading, and, most importantly, spending time with her family.
The post 811: Dr. Jingchun Li: Investigating Clams with Photosynthetic Algae, Parasites in Mud Shrimp, and Other Species Interactions that Shape Evolution appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
43 min
April 28, 2025 810: Dr. Christine Drea: Studying Social Behavior, Reproduction, and Health in Female-Dominant Species
Dr. Christine Drea is the Earl D. McLean Professor of Evolutionary Anthropology, as well as Professor in the Department of Biology, the University Program in Ecology, and the Duke Institute for Brain Sciences at Duke University. Christine completed her undergraduate training in zoology at the University of Maryland College Park. She earned her M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in psychobiology from Emory University. Afterwards, Christine conducted postdoctoral research in physiology at the Morehouse School of Medicine, and subsequently she was awarded a National Institutes of Health National Research Service Award postdoctoral fellowship in psychology to conduct research at the University of California, Berkeley. Next, Christine served as a lecturer at UC, Berkeley before joining the faculty at Duke University. At Duke, she has been awarded the Thomas Langford Lectureship Award for the appeal of her research to an interdisciplinary audience and her embodiment of Langford’s dedication to teaching, research, and service. In our interview, Christine shares more about her life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:29)
Christine’s hobbies outside of science include gardening, playing and walking with her two dogs, and traveling.
The Scientific Side (3:26)
Research in Christine’s lab examines animal behavior from an integrative perspective. She and her colleagues are investigating the genetic, behavioral, cognitive, sensory, and endocrine mechanisms involved in social interactions and communication in socially complex animals. Christine focuses primarily on female-dominant species such as hyenas, lemurs, and meerkats.
A Dose of Motivation (4:26)
For Christine, motivation comes from her fascination with the animals she is studying. Her research questions are focused on animals she finds particularly interesting and unusual.
What Got You Hooked on Science? (6:53)
Christine spent most of her childhood living and traveling overseas with her family. Her father was a research entomologist who studied insects that could be used to control pests. As a result, Christine was immersed in science and research from an early age. She often accompanied her father on collection outings and helped devise ways to collect different insects and their parasites. The trips their family took were always geared towards the outdoors and were not typically spent in popular tourist destinations. Through these early experiences, Christine became interested in animals, their interactions, communities, and ecosystems. In particular, Christine was fascinated by the large, furry animals she encountered during her travels, particularly those in Africa. Despite this early interest in the natural world, Christine wasn’t really sure what she wanted to do for her career. She enjoyed participating in field research as an undergraduate student, and she discovered afterwards that she didn’t prefer traditional biomedical laboratory science. Exploring these different options helped Christine decide to pursue graduate school and an academic career studying social interactions in mammals.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (19:51)
An unprecedented drought occurred while Christine and her team were conducting a field research project studying meerkats in the Kalahari Desert. They had spent so much time and effort to get the grant to fund the research, have their team travel across the world to get to the research site, learn about the animals, and begin the study. The goal of the project was to understand hormonal mechanisms that underlie female dominance in meerkats. To do this, they planned to study hormones and behavior in pregnant mothers and their offspring, following the offspring from birth to adulthood. Everything seemed to be working great until the drought began. In the first year Christine was there, only one meerkat pup managed to survive. This was a major setback in their research, and it was emotionally difficult to see all of the animals around them dying of starvation during the drought. Despite the difficult situation, they were able to collect interesting data that shows how the meerkats changed their reproductive behavior in response to the drought.
A Shining Success! (24:13)
In her research on hyenas, Christine and her lab members helped resolve a question that has been puzzling naturalists and evolutionary biologists for many years. Female spotted hyenas have highly masculinized external reproductive structures that are not ideal for giving birth. Why and how these structures developed and have persisted has been a mystery. They hypothesized that the structures form because female hyenas are exposed to high levels of testosterone during fetal development. Evolutionarily, it was hypothesized that androgens like testosterone were selected for due to their effects on dominance behavior. Aggressive dominance behavior is important for ensuring females and their pups have access to food in their communal hunting groups. Christine’s experiments blocked androgens while female hyenas were pregnant, and this did not substantially change the morphology of the external reproductive structures. These results suggested that both genetic and endocrine mechanisms work together to produce these structures.
Book Recommendations (29:22)
A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving
Most Treasured Travel (30:15)
Namibia holds a special place in Christine’s heart. In Namibia, she has conducted research on brown and spotted hyenas, as well as assisted a colleague working on lions and leopards. Christine even had an opportunity to work behind the security lines in southern Namibia on the property of the De Beers diamond mines. This area has been closed off to the public for over 100 years, and it contains the longest stretch of protected coastline in the world. It was amazing to be able to see a part of the world that so few people have had a chance to see. The flora and fauna are remarkable, the weather is extreme, and the terrain is rugged. Christine is fascinated by the plants and animals that manage to survive in the inhospitable desert landscapes there.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (33:14)
Christine really appreciates the contributions of the undergraduate students, graduate students, and postdoctoral fellows in her laboratory. She has enjoyed building her lab and forming a community of people with shared interests with whom she can do research, go into the field, and travel. During one of the lab’s trips to the Kalahari Desert, the team spent most of the trip working long, hard days. However, they managed to take a break one day to go on a safari adventure in Botswana. It was really fun to get the group together and watch the animals.
Advice For Us All (38:07)
Listen to the data. Interesting findings in science come from listening to what the results are telling you, rather than trying to make the data fit with how you think something should work. Try to be true to the questions that are of interest to you. Be fearless and resolute in pursuing your dreams. Also, don’t lose sight of your dreams in a field that can be laden with delayed gratification.
Guest Bio
Christine’s research interests are in the mechanisms, development, function, and evolution of animal behavior, with a focus on exceptional mammals, including hyenas, lemurs, and meerkats. The general premise driving this selection is that unusual species test our understanding of normal processes and function as ‘experiments of nature.’ Her team’s current work, conducted in parts of Africa and at the Duke Lemur Center in North Carolina, is centered on the role of androgens in female dominance and aggression, the neuroendocrine mediators of social bonding and cooperation, the evolution of chemical communication, and the symbiotic relationships between an animal host and its self-contained microbial communities. A passion for wildlife and wild spaces fuels teaching, mentoring, and public outreach aimed at encouraging curiosity about and appreciation of the world around us, as well as activism in support of nature conservancy. Service within the academy is focused on improving diversity and achieving equity in the workplace. Outside of work, Christine enjoys time with her hound dogs, gardening, travel to remote locales, and various outdoor activities (if time would permit, scuba diving would be a renewed priority).

*This episode was originally released July 8, 2019.
The post 810: Dr. Christine Drea: Studying Social Behavior, Reproduction, and Health in Female-Dominant Species appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
43 min
April 21, 2025 809: Dr. Kevin France: Bright Researcher Studying Exoplanets and their Stars and Developing New Astrophysics Technology
Dr. Kevin France is an Assistant Professor in the Department for Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences as well as an investigator within the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics at the University of Colorado, Boulder. He received his bachelor’s degree in Physics and Astronomy from Boston University, and he was awarded his Ph.D. in Astrophysics from Johns Hopkins University. Afterwards, Kevin conducted research as a postdoctoral fellow at the University of Toronto. He next worked as a Research Associate and Fellow at the Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and during this time, Kevin was awarded the NASA Nancy Grace Roman Technology Fellowship. Kevin joined us to chat about his work as well as his life outside the lab.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:15)
Kevin spends his free time enjoying an outdoor lifestyle living in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. His hobbies include hiking, skiing, biking, trail running, and spending time with his wife and 9-month old baby.
The Scientific Side (3:21)
Kevin’s research focuses on improving our understanding of planetary systems outside of our own solar system. His research helps determine how the earth was formed, how it came to look the way it does, and how it fits into the broader perspective of planetary systems throughout the galaxy. Kevin also does laboratory and space mission work to develop the technology that will allow them to answer these questions.
A Dose of Motivation (5:00)
“I’m the decider, and I decide what is best.” – George W. Bush
What Got You Hooked on Science? (8:14)
Upon entering college, Kevin wasn’t sure what he wanted to study. He enjoyed learning French and had a great teacher in high school, so he considered majoring in French. At the same time, he began taking classes required for a physics major, including a freshman astronomy class. During an observing session using small telescopes, Kevin was struck by the sight of Saturn and its remarkable rings. This, combined with a research experience working at the White Sands Missile Range on a sounding rocket launch, convinced Kevin that astrophysics was the right choice for him.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (16:10)
One challenge Kevin faced in graduate school was transitioning into making more decisions about his career and facing concerns about whether he could make it as a scientist. Later, when he was searching for a permanent position, Kevin received an offer for a faculty position, but it didn’t seem like the right fit. Against advice from a lot of people, he didn’t accept the job. About six months later, he and his wife bought their first house, and Kevin was notified that he didn’t get a big grant he had been counting on. At this point, things started falling apart. Kevin was sure he had made a career-ending mistake in turning down that faculty job.
A Shining Success! (19:13)
Kevin and his colleagues are currently building a satellite for NASA called CUTE (Colorado Ultraviolet Transit Experiment). This satellite will observe nearby gas giant planets called hot Jupiters that are orbiting really close to their parent stars. These planets are heavily irradiated because of their close orbit, and this causes their atmospheres to escape from the planet. With substantial amounts of escaping atmosphere, these planets can form comet-like tails that drag behind them as they orbit. CUTE will capture images and spectra as these planets cross in front of their parent stars (transit). Kevin’s team can use this data to determine how fast the planets are losing atmosphere, what the atmospheres are made of, and other important characteristics. The science is exciting, and this project is also great because both undergraduate and graduate students play an important role in contributing to its success.
Book Recommendations (22:18)
The Pleasures of Finding Things Out by Richard Feynman, The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt
Most Treasured Travel (23:07)
A few years ago, Kevin traveled to a conference held about four hours south of Kolkata, India on the Ganges River. They traveled by bus from the airport to their destination which was an old, historic fort off-the-beaten tourist path. Another exceptional travel opportunity brought Kevin to Venice to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the Hubble Space Telescope. There was a phenomenal concert as part of the conference that featured an octet playing in a 16th century monk’s art studio, and it was the most beautiful room Kevin had ever visited. While in Venice, Kevin and his fiancee enjoyed walking around the city, admiring the architecture, and a seeing the sights on a romantic gondola ride.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (26:39)
When he was in graduate school at Johns Hopkins, Kevin was the drummer in an all-graduate student rock band. They played once or twice a week in bars all over Baltimore. Though they weren’t the best band to grace the stages of Baltimore, it was an excellent way to have fun and relieve stress. Kevin still plays drums today and hopes to one day get another band together.
Advice For Us All (29:48)
Don’t undervalue the importance of hard work. If you continue to work hard, you can probably do anything that you don’t think you can do. You have to stick it out and have grit.
Guest Bio
Kevin grew up in West Virginia before moving to Boston for college. After another few years of academic nomadery, he settled at the University of Colorado in Boulder where he lives with his wife (a novelist), son (a crawler), and aged Tibetan Spaniel (a meditator). Currently, Kevin is an assistant professor of astrophysics and planetary science at CU. Outside of work, Kevin spends as much time as possible traveling with his family or in the mountains and high plains of Colorado. When he is at work, Kevin’s research focuses on exoplanets and their host stars, protoplanetary disks, and the development of instrumentation for ultraviolet astrophysics. He was a member of the Hubble Space Telescope-Cosmic Origins Spectrograph’s instrument and science teams, a member of the LUVOIR Science and Technology Definition Team, is a regular guest observer with Hubble, and is the principal investigator of NASA-supported sounding rocket and small satellite programs to study exoplanet atmospheres and flight-test critical path hardware for a future UV/optical missions.

*This episode was originally released December 18, 2017.
The post 809: Dr. Kevin France: Bright Researcher Studying Exoplanets and their Stars and Developing New Astrophysics Technology appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
34 min
April 14, 2025 808: Dr. Keshav Singh: Unraveling How Mitochondria Can Be Used to Reverse Aging and Treat Age-Related Diseases
Dr. Keshav K. Singh is the Joy and Bill Harbert Endowed Chair and Professor of Genetics, Dermatology and Pathology at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. He is also the founding Editor-in-Chief of the Mitochondrion Journal. In addition, Keshav is the founder and Chief Scientific Officer of the company Yuva Biosciences. Keshav began his studies in India, earning his Bachelor of Science degree in microbiology from Rohilkhand University and his Master of Science from G.B. Pant University of Agriculture and Technology. Next, he moved to Australia and was awarded his Ph.D. in Marine Biology from the University of Wollongong. Keshav then conducted postdoctoral research at Harvard University before joining the faculty at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. He later moved to the Roswell Park Comprehensive Cancer Center and served as Distinguished Professor of Oncology. Next, he joined the faculty at the University of Alabama at Birmingham where he is today. He is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Medicine and a member of Sigma Xi (The Scientific Research Honor Society). He has been recognized as one of the Innovation Heroes by Newsweek, and Yuva Biosciences was the recipient of the “Company of the Year – Innovation and Excellence into Mitochondrial Science” award at the Indian Icon Awards. In our interview, Keshav shares more about his life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (3:28)
Outside of work, Keshav enjoys flying kites on the beach, traveling, and painting. In particular, he gets creative painting all different kinds of mitochondria, and this is a great outlet for him when experiments aren’t working in the lab.
The Scientific Side (5:38)
Research in Keshav’s lab focuses on how to reverse aging and diseases like cancer that are associated with aging. Mitochondria are relevant for all of the hallmarks of aging, including things like changes in epigenetic regulation, genomic instability, and communication problems between cells. He is working to better understand the intricacies of how mitochondria work and how they can be targeted or leveraged to improve health.
A Dose of Motivation (7:33)
“If I have a thousand ideas and only one turns out to be good, I am satisfied.” – Alfred Nobel
“If you’re going through hell, keep going.” – Winston Churchill
What Got You Hooked on Science? (9:33)
In school, Keshav was fascinated by many areas of science, and he wrote for a children’s section in the newspaper during high school and college. He remembers borrowing his older brother’s Science Reporter magazines to find interesting facts and ideas to highlight in the newspaper. Keshav’s older brother was an electrical engineer, and Keshav was really inspired by how hard his brother worked and his dedication to translating ideas to be useful in everyday life. Their two sisters pursued careers in electronics engineering and the fine arts, and Keshav’s parents persuaded him that he should become a doctor. However, when Keshav took the entrance exam for medical school, he failed. These programs are very competitive in India, and Keshav didn’t get in.
Scrambling for a new plan, he began applying for programs in many different scientific fields, and he decided to focus on microbiology. During his master’s thesis, Keshav leveraged the anaerobic bacteria in cow dung to make methane gas, which can be used to produce electricity. Keshav learned to speak English while completing his PhD in Australia, and during his PhD studies, he received a scholarship to go to the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in the U.S. This was a transformative experience. Being there helped him gain confidence, both in his English language skills and his science. Keshav enjoyed his time there so much that he ended up staying longer than the three months he had initially planned. When he returned to Australia, Keshav worked hard to finish his PhD quickly, and he returned to the U.S. for postdoctoral studies. There have been some twists and turns in Keshav’s career path, but he is really passionate about the research projects he has worked on over the years, and they have resulted in some very exciting discoveries.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (29:00)
When starting his faculty career, Keshav almost failed to meet his research milestones and secure funding for his work because he got caught up in writing a book about mitochondria, starting the academic journal Mitochondrion, and creating the Mitochondria Research and Medicine Society. Scientists typically take on these kinds of projects later in their careers, after they have a stable lab and research funding. As the grant rejection notices continued and time was ticking down for Keshav to get funding to support his salary, he stumbled upon a web page for The Elsa U. Pardee Foundation, an organization that funds cancer research. He submitted a two-page application by mail to the foundation’s post office box, and then quickly moved on to the next grant application. Several weeks later, Keshav received a check in the mail for over $200,000. Thinking it was a joke from his daughter, Keshav tore it up and threw it away. After his daughter denied sending it and he spent the evening thinking about the mysterious check, Keshav retrieved it from his office trash and pieced it back together. He wrote a letter to the foundation to see if the check was real, and they confirmed that it was. That changed everything for him, and Keshav still has the check framed in his office to keep him motivated and inspired.
A Shining Success! (32:59)
When he moved to the University of Alabama at Birmingham, Keshav began working to create a specialized mouse model with disrupted mitochondrial function. He was surprised to see that their mice with disrupted mitochondria quickly developed wrinkled skin and lost their hair, suggesting rapid aging. Unable to believe what he was seeing, Keshav had researchers from other labs validate his findings. Next, they succeeded in restoring mitochondrial function in a conditional knockdown model, and they were amazed to see that the mice began growing hair again and their wrinkles disappeared. Their findings generated worldwide media attention and led Keshav to launch a startup company called Yuva Biosciences. A novel ingredient they developed to slow age-related changes in hair and skin has been incorporated into a hair care product from Bosley. They are now wrapping up a clinical trial with good results for addressing skin wrinkles, and Keshav is excited to be working on ovarian aging. Premature ovarian aging can lead to the development of early menopause symptoms and infertility in women before age 40, and there are currently no treatments available. Mitochondria are critical for ovarian function, and they now have a mouse model that they are using to identify ways to protect or restore mitochondrial function to address ovarian aging issues.
Book Recommendations (39:10)
The Book of Kayakalpa
Most Treasured Travel (41:30)
Last year, Keshav had the opportunity to visit Chile for the first time last year. The people he met were so welcoming that they are like family members now. There were wonderful conversations about science, they got to visit many interesting places, and they enjoyed fantastic meals with their hosts.
Malta was another memorable place that Keshav visited for science. While there, Keshav made many new friends, and the hospitality was absolutely remarkable. On the day of his departure, Keshav had to leave very early to catch a 6:00 am flight. He left his hotel room and went downstairs around 4:00 am, and they already had a full breakfast ready for him. The manager of the hotel even helped him with his suitcase!
Innsbruck, Austria, is also a phenomenal place to visit. The city is surrounded by the breathtaking Alps mountain range, and Keshav attended a conference in a charming church in a village nearby. When he arrived, the organizers showed Keshav to his room, and he was surprised to see bunkbeds. Shortly afterwards, one of his colleagues joined him in the room, and they realized they were roommates for the event. The conference was memorable, and they even used a tree branch for a pointer during presentations since they didn’t have a laser pointer. Since then, Keshav always keeps a laser pointer in his bag, just in case.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (45:00)
Keshav and his colleagues have attended multiple Gordon Research Conferences in New Hampshire. After a the conference sessions concluded for the day, the group went to dinner and then continued having great conversations at the local bar until it closed at 11:00 pm. They were dismayed to lose their venue and call it a night so early, so the group decided to continue the festivities in their room until the early morning. Throughout the night, they came up with some really good ideas that Keshav has since followed up on. One of the attendees now brings his own supply of drinks in preparation for late-night gatherings with colleagues at these conferences. Informal discussions with colleagues at conferences can turn into productive collaborations, and Keshav has even caught the interest of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) with an idea that started as a conversation in a bar.
Advice For Us All (50:03)
Fail successfully. Put in 100%, and even if you fail, you’ll know that you gave your best effort. Also, do what you love, and love what you do. If you have passion for something, you can overcome many hurdles.
Guest Bio
Keshav’s professional journey blends science, entrepreneurship, and a passion for impactful innovations. As a founder of Yuva Biosciences, he leads a startup at the forefront of advancing our understanding of mitochondrial science and its profound influence on human health and longevity. Keshav is investigating the intricacies of mitochondria transfer, transplantation, and communication inside and outside of the cell to understand, prevent, and cure diseases. These include mitochondrial diseases, aging, and aging-associated diseases such as cancer. His laboratory was the first to describe the role of mitochondria in the epigenetic regulation of the nuclear genome. He also demonstrated the role of mitochondria in nuclear genome instability. Keshav’s laboratory created a unique mouse model to manipulate aging at will and explore interventions for aging itself and aging-associated diseases. Through a multidisciplinary approach, he is aiming to translate fundamental mitochondrial research into therapeutic advancements. Outside of work, he enjoys painting, flying kites, and traveling around the world.

Support for this episode of People Behind the Science was provided by Innovative Research, Inc.
The post 808: Dr. Keshav Singh: Unraveling How Mitochondria Can Be Used to Reverse Aging and Treat Age-Related Diseases appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
52 min
April 07, 2025 807: Dr. Luise Hermanutz: Conducting Cool Science on Conservation in Arctic and Subarctic Ecosystems
Dr. Luise Hermanutz is a Professor in the Department of Biology at Memorial University in Canada. She received her PhD in Plant Ecology from Western University in London, Ontario. Afterward, She taught as an Instructor in the Geography Department at Memorial University and conducted postdoctoral research at the University of Wollongong in Australia, before joining the faculty at Memorial University. Luise is with us today to tell us all about her journey through life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science
Luise likes to spend her spare time outdoors enjoying the nature of Newfoundland, and she is particularly fond of snowshoeing in the woods behind her house. In addition, Luise has fun cooking, entertaining, and reading.
The Scientific Side
Her work is dedicated to solving the puzzle of how organisms survive and adapt in their environments. She is interested in how plants and animals interact and how that shapes the world around us. Most of Luise’s work focuses on northern boreal forests and arctic tundra.
A Dose of Motivation
“The more we know, the more we don’t know about the way the world works.”
“Never say never.”
What Got You Hooked on Science?
Luise was fascinated with plants and animals as a kid. She loved exploring the undeveloped area behind her house and was known to bring back creatures to show her parents (perhaps to their dismay!). She was inspired by Jacques Cousteau’s great adventures to pursue marine biology in college, but later switched to botany where the program was smaller and more nurturing. Luise has had an interesting career journey with several twists and turns where she left science, but she ultimately decided that this was where she wanted to be and what she wanted to do.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges
In the last year of her PhD, Luise was looking at interactions between genetics and the environment in weeds. She wanted to know how weeds can be so successful pretty much anywhere. After 1.5-2 years of breeding plants and preparing for their transfer into the field, Luise was ready for the final phase of the experiment. Unfortunately, the day after all of her samples were planted, a torrential downpour washed them all away and the experiment was ruined!
A Shining Success!
One type of major success Luise treasures is getting support and recognition from the communities she works in. For example, she is doing research on endangered plant species found in Limestone Barrens of Newfoundland. It has been a major collaborative effort to communicate the importance of these species and to promote conservation efforts. Seeing the communities becoming champions of these endagered plants has been very rewarding.
Book Recommendations
The Earth Moved: On the Remarkable Achievements of Earthworms by Amy Stewart
Most Treasured Travel
Luise really loved Australia and its amazing biodiversity. Southwest Australia is one of the 15 biodiversity hot spots in the world. In particular the Palmer Valley and Kakadu National Park were two of her absolute favorite places because they are so breathtakingly beautiful.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories
A memorable experience that Luise and her lab will never forget happened at her isolated field camp in Mealy Mountains in Labrador. They went out late in the field season to wrap up a project, and they were ready to wrap up a productive day with a birthday cake and celebration. However, a severe windstorm rapidly descended upon the valley with ice and snow. They lost all of their tents and were forced to huddle together in the weather haven, taking turns trying to hold it down.
Advice For Us All
Don’t give up.
Guest Bio
Luise is a plant ecologist, conservation biologist, and field biologist conducting interdisciplinary research in boreal and arctic/alpine regions of Canada. She teaches Conservation Biology and Boreal Ecology, the latter as a field course. Her main research focuses on the impacts of climate change on arctic/alpine ecosystems, impacts of non-native invasive species (herbivores & plants) on forest regeneration, protected areas management issues, and the conservation of rare Newfoundland Limestone Barrens ecosystems. Luise have also collaborated with scientists at Kings Park & Botanical Gardens (Perth, Australia) on rare Western Australian eucalyptus during her sabbaticals. Her lab prides itself on their outreach and education partnerships with government and communities throughout the province. She serves on several provincial government advisory committees, including the Species Specialist Advisory Committee, which advised the government on endangered species, and the Wilderness and Ecological Reserve Committee, which advises the government on protected areas. Luise loves to travel and explore our wild spaces. She strongly believes that scientists are obligated to share their knowledge and understanding of the world and how it works with society! It’s all about science education.

*This episode was originally released April 20, 2015.
The post 807: Dr. Luise Hermanutz: Conducting Cool Science on Conservation in Arctic and Subarctic Ecosystems appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
57 min
March 31, 2025 806: Dr. Jia “Leo” Li: Creating Two-Dimensional Material Structures to Investigate Novel Quantum States of Matter
Dr. Jia “Leo” Li is an Associate Professor of Physics at Brown University. He completed his undergraduate studies at Tsinghua University in China, and he received his MS and PhD degrees in Physics from Northwestern University. Afterwards, Leo worked as a postdoctoral researcher in physics at Columbia University before joining the faculty at Brown University where he is today. He has been the recipient of a Sloan Research Fellowship, a National Science Foundation CAREER Award, and Brown University’s Salamon Faculty Award for excellence in scholarly work. In our interview, Leo shares more about his life and science.
People Behind the Science Podcast Show Notes
Life Outside of Science (2:18)
In his free time, Leo enjoys rock climbing and trail running. Running is a great way to clear his mind when he is frustrated from a failed experiment or stuck on a particular equation. He finds parallels between finding solutions to physics problems and identifying the perfect running or climbing routes.
The Scientific Side (3:09)
Leo stacks different layers of two-dimensional (2D) material together to discover new electronic properties that could revolutionize future technology, including the next generation of computers and electronics.
A Dose of Motivation (4:06)
“In nature’s book of secrecy, a little I can read.” – Michael Faraday
What Got You Hooked on Science? (6:28)
As early as middle school, Leo was already getting interested in physics. He found physics to be calming and something that he wanted to continue to explore even outside of school. Leo chose to major in physics in college, and he pursued graduate studies afterwards. In his PhD work, Leo examined superfluid helium-3 using a post-nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) technique. After graduating, he decided to pivot his research focus, accepting a postdoctoral fellowship where he gained experience working with 2D materials. As a postdoc beginning to search for faculty jobs, he had some doubts about whether he would be able to succeed in academia. Leo considered transitioning over to working in a national laboratory or in industry, but he ultimately persevered on the research path. The work he did as a postdoc then led to the research that his lab conducts today developing new measurement techniques and exploring electronic behavior in different structures with layered 2D materials.
The Low Points: Failures and Challenges (14:01)
In his third year of graduate school, Leo was running an experiment using an apparatus called a dilution refrigerator that could cool samples to extremely low temperatures. This apparatus was critical for the success of his experiment. However, the dilution refrigerator began leaking its contents whenever it approached the low temperatures that Leo needed his samples to achieve. The leak made it impossible to do his experiments. Also, because the leak only happened at very low temperatures, he couldn’t do leak checks on different components at room temperature. As a graduate student with relatively little experience with these kinds of problems, this was an enormous and frustrating challenge. However, his adviser provided a lot of guidance through this difficult time, and they did a lot of troubleshooting together. After painstakingly taking apart the dilution refrigerator piece by piece and systematically testing each component for leaks at low temperatures, they were able to fix it. It took about six months of hard work, but he finally got to do the really exciting experiments he had planned.
A Shining Success! (16:45)
One of the most rewarding experiences is seeing students become confident scientists in the lab. After encountering challenges, learning from their failures, troubleshooting issues, and mastering complex techniques, his trainees transform from novice researchers to independently designing experiments, carrying out projects, and mentoring others. For Leo, it is meaningful to know that these students will carry the skills they learn in his lab forward to address tomorrow’s big research challenges. Leo works closely with the students in his lab when they have exciting projects and findings, and they recently discovered a new class of particles called fractional excitons that could unlock new questions in the research field of quantum physics.
Book Recommendations (19:29)
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
Most Treasured Travel (20:47)
Leo has had many opportunities to travel to the National High Magnetic Field Lab (MagLab) in Tallahassee, Florida, to do experiments. To make new discoveries, Leo and his team need access to facilities with a really high magnetic field, and he was a postdoc when he made his first trip to the Tallahassee MagLab. The lab is in a huge building that features large magnets powered by electricity and high towers with water for cooling. The staff provide tours for the public, so you can see all the different types of magnets and learn about the kinds of discoveries that are being made there. Since his first visit, Leo has been there many times, and the MagLab was the setting for their recent discovery of fractional excitons. They typically reserve a week of time to do their experiments, and they pack in as much data collection as possible during that time, usually staying in the lab until after midnight. These trips are a fantastic experience for training students and bonding with lab members.
Quirky Traditions and Funny Memories (24:51)
When he started graduate school, Leo and his roommate decided to adopt a cat. They named the cat Dexter, and later, Leo’s roommate made them each a t-shirt with a picture of Dexter on the front. The shirts came out great, and they got a photo of the two of them together in the lab wearing their cat shirts. Several years after Leo and his roommate graduated, the lab turned the picture of the two of them wearing their cat t-shirts into a new t-shirt and took a group photo. This got a lot of laughs, but then it got even more elaborate when Leo and his roommate returned to Northwestern to celebrate their advisor’s retirement. They and their partners decided to pose for another photo in the lab, with their partners wearing t-shirts with a picture of the lab members wearing t-shirts with the picture of Leo and his roommate in their cat t-shirts. They added yet another layer to the running joke at Leo’s wedding when his wife surprised everyone from the lab who was there with t-shirts featuring the latest photo in the chain. Leo’s advisor liked the shirt so much that he took three of them home.
Advice For Us All (28:20)
Take on hard challenges, but be patient with yourself through the process because progress isn’t linear (in life or science). Stay curious, resilient, and motivated. Science needs both creativity and perseverance. You are always learning new things, even from your failed experiments. Be sure to find collaborators and mentors who share your enthusiasm because science is a community effort.
Guest Bio
Leo’s research centers on experimental investigation of emergent quantum phases of matter in two-dimensional electrons, including bosonic superfluid, electronic superconductor, orbital magnetism, and states with nontrivial topological orders. Most recently, he has focused on the characterization and identification of excitons in the fractional quantum Hall effect regime. As part of this work, his group has observed excitons with fractionally charged constituents, giving rise to neutral particles that obey fermionic and anyonic quantum statistics. Outside the lab, Leo enjoys rock climbing, training for half-marathons, and spending quality time with his family. He also cares for 6 pets — cats and dogs — which means there is never a dull moment and plenty of cleanup duties.
The post 806: Dr. Jia “Leo” Li: Creating Two-Dimensional Material Structures to Investigate Novel Quantum States of Matter appeared first on People Behind the Science Podcast.
31 min

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