"I wouldn’t have become who I am right now without you guys." —Michélle Konson

I met Jenni LaBrie and Michélle Konson only a year and a half ago at the Write to Publish conference, where we all showed up alone with the hope of finding direction in each of our writing lives. We came with the dream of getting published, and left with something even better—dear friends who help us imagine more beauty than we could ever create on our own.

Almost exactly one year into launching this podcast, I'm thrilled to bring these treasured friends back to talk about how we cultivated such a meaningful friendship, what it looks like to continually choose vulnerability, and how our belief in one another expands our capacity to dream about what's possible for each one of us.

I hope this conversation with Michélle and Jenni will help you imagine how you might be able to nourish deeper friendships in your life. Because if we're going to create anything brave or beautiful in the world, we can't do it alone.

Join us for this vulnerable conversation about friendship, including:

• Why building friendship requires risk and intentionality
• Creative ideas for connecting with friends, even during busy seasons
• How vulnerability has played a pivotal role in deepening our connection
• The role we've played in one another's creative journeys—and the joy of holding each other's dreams
• Honest confessions about the messiness that comes with raw, real friendship
• How practicing vulnerability together allows us to become our true selves

Michélle Konson is a writer, speaker, and Story Work guide who helps people explore how their past shapes the way they show up in their lives and relationships. She is the creator of the Untangling Your Story journal, and her work is deeply shaped by the belief that creativity and healing are rarely formed alone. Vulnerable and intentional friendships have been central to her own creative journey and to the way she lives a more fully connected life. 

Reach out to Michélle Konson about speaking at your event on her website at https://www.michellekonson.com/

Get your copy of Michélle's powerful Untangling Your Story journal https://www.michellekonson.com/journal

Connect with Michelle on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/michellekonson/ 

Jenni LaBrie is a visual synthesist, writer, and speaker helping messages stick with powerful words, visuals, & voice. She has a gift for distilling thoughts to their purest essence—and then making them visible and shareable. Former teacher turned creative entrepreneur, Jenni lives in the Chicago suburbs with her husband and three kids, where soft pants reign supreme and washing her hair once a week feels like a win.

Connect with Jenni LaBrie or get more info about speaking on her website at https://www.jennilabrie.com/

Grab one of Jenni’s freebies to learn how to sketchnote! https://www.jennilabrie.com/freebies

Find Jenni on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/jennilabrie/  

Previous episodes of Permission Slips with Michélle and Jenni:

Listen to Episode 2: Embracing Your Story with Kindness | Michélle Konson

https://www.podcastics.com/episode/350621/link/

Episode 3: Finding Space to Dream Again | Jenni LaBrie

https://www.podcastics.com/episode/350766/link/

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

This conversation with my friend—and the founder and visionary of Sonshine Interpreting—Araya Williams, came at just the right time for me personally. 

We talk about calling, identity, and taking brave steps even when you don't know how it's going to work out. Araya shares how her work with the Deaf community and the creation of Sunshine Interpreting grew out of paying attention to what moved her heart and what she couldn’t shake. Again and again, we come back to the courage it takes to listen—to God, to ourselves, and to the quieter invitations in our lives.

We also name the hard reality of what's required to walk in your calling, including self-doubt, shame, and the internal voices that tell us we’re behind or not enough. This conversation felt like a gentle reminder that our worth isn’t something we earn through productivity or success, and that clarity often comes slowly.

If you’re holding questions about purpose, feeling tender around your identity, or needing permission to be honest about your struggle, I hope this episode feels like an exhale—and an invitation to listen to the One who wants to tell you who you really are.

A few things we talk about:

• Why self-compassion matters more than we think
• How paying attention to what moves us can point us toward purpose
• The courage it takes to follow a calling without guarantees
• Naming the voices of shame and self-doubt (and not letting them lead)
• What it looks like to listen for God’s voice in real life
• Why our worth was never meant to be measured by productivity
• Letting ourselves be seen—and why that can be healing
• Living with more freedom by accepting who we are

RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE:

• Living Fearless by Jamie Winship - https://a.co/d/ekDyKzx
• Sonshine Interpreting - https://sonshineinterpreting.com/ or connect on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/sonshineterps
• Christian Interpreters Conference - https://www.christianinterpretersconference.org/
• Learn about coaching - https://jilliandebritz.com/coaching/

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

"January is the new week between Christmas and the new year." —Emily P. Freeman

Join me as I make space to reflect on 2025 by sharing my list of what worked and what didn't over the past year. I hope these honest, in-process thoughts give you permission to ask yourself the same questions, and in so doing, offer you clarity about how you want to move forward into 2026 with greater wholeness and courage.

Learn more about coaching - https://jilliandebritz.com/coaching/

Other resources from this episode:

• 20 // Delight, Unraveling, and the Stages of Faith // Susan Bouterse 

  https://www.podcastics.com/episode/387596/link/

• 21: How to Practice Being Known in a Confessional Community | Rachel Miller 

  https://www.podcastics.com/episode/389719/link/

• Center for Being Known (Confessional Communities) - https://www.thecbk.org/
• 5: Rejecting Diet Culture & Body Shame | Rachel Kulcsar

  https://www.podcastics.com/episode/352666/link/

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

"As women in ministry, we need cheerleaders." —Lee Nienhuis

I met Katie and Lee at a conference for writers and speakers, and we connected instantly. Something unique about their friendship struck me right away: There was not a lick of competition between the two of them—only genuine belief in one another and the work each was doing in the world. It overflowed to everyone they met (including me) like streams of encouragement, watering the parched writers and speakers around them so seeds of hope could grow.

In this episode, Katie and Lee share about their friendship and the ways it has strengthened each of them in their individual callings. We talk about the jealousy that can crop up—even in ministry—and how to untangle ourselves from it, as well as the importance of having cheerleaders in our lives who will help us stay the course.

Listen in as we discuss:

• The power of friends who believe in one another's callings
• How to navigate jealousy in friendship by remembering which team we're on
• Choosing collaboration and cheerleading instead of competition in ministry
• What it looks like to be a "ladder-holding leader" 
• Finding our identity in Christ, rather than in the opportunities we're given (or not)
• When God's definition of good may differ from our expectations

CONNECT WITH LEE & KATIE:

Katie M. Reid - https://www.katiemreid.com/

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katie_m_reid/
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/KatieMReidWriter
• FREE INTRO LESSON (from God, What Do I Do?) - https://katiemreid.myflodesk.com/biblestudyfreebie1
• Link to Bible Study and more resources:  https://www.katiemreid.com/judges/

Lee Nienhuis - https://leenienhuis.com/

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leenienhuis/
• Counter Cultural Parenting - https://leenienhuis.com/counter-cultural-parenting/
• Comparison Girl for Teens - https://leenienhuis.com/comparison-girl-for-teens/
• Brave Moms, Brave Kids - https://leenienhuis.com/brave-moms-brave-kids/

CONNECT WITH JILLIAN

• Coaching info - https://jilliandebritz.com/coaching/

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

"We enter into relationship—we enter into meaning—through the doorway of feeling, and specifically negative feelings. To eliminate those would be to eliminate...the sweetness of actual relationship." —Justin McRoberts, author, spiritual director, and creative consultant

In this episode, author Justin McRoberts and I explore the complexities of human emotions, including the importance of embracing imperfection, the beauty of connecting with pain—both our own and others'—and the role of curiosity in our healing. Justin shares insights from his latest book, In the Low, reminding us that our seasons of darkness and depression are not evidence that we're broken, but an essential, beautiful part of being human.

We talk about things like:

• Disappointing people so that you can become who you are meant to be
• Embracing pain as a way to know ourselves—and connect with others—more deeply
• Why sitting with hard emotions takes practice 
• How curiosity can help us learn from our emotions
• Reminders that our current situation is not our final destination; there is hope beyond the low
• The beauty of acquainting ourselves with our shortcomings and imperfections 
• How there are depths of human relationships that we don't get to experience without pain
• The importance of inviting others to help learn about yourself (rather than fix you)

Justin McRoberts is an author, coach, speaker, and songwriter. When he’s not writing, speaking, or coaching, you can find him as the host of the At Sea Podcast. He just released his 8th book (and the 3rd he’s written with Scot Erickson), In the Low: Honest Prayers for Dark Seasons. He lives in the East San Francisco Bay Area, and he calls his mom every day.

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

In the Low: Honest Prayers for Dark Seasons - https://a.co/d/h9t7RKn

Connect with Justin:

• Coaching and more - https://www.justinmcroberts.com/
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/justinmcroberts/
• At Sea Podcast - https://www.justinmcroberts.com/podcast

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

 "It's not so much about falling in love with myself, but falling in love with who Jesus has made me to be and what that allows and invites to the world around me." -Kelsey Jenney

Most of us don't walk around feeling like we're "the best of the best of the very, very best." But Kelsey Jenney reminds us that, according to the very words of the God of the universe, we are actually "tov meod"—very good! I don't know about you, but I just can't hear that enough.

Listen to Kelsey's contagious joy as she shares about dressing up her SnuggleBears (a.k.a. her doodle doggies babies), Jesus' sense of humor, and the kind, welcoming presence of God in the middle of her ordinary little life. Our conversation covers topics like:

• Kelsey's annual Christmas photo shoot with her dogs
• Why humor and laughter are necessary to really know Jesus
• Reminders that you are made very good—and you're allowed to take up space
• Learning to love who God has made you to be
• Embracing our personhood over our position or profession
• How to practice being present with God in our ordinary, daily moments
• How naming what is real allows for deeper connection with God
• Permission to use all the exclamation points and get more dogs!!!!!

Kelsey Jenney has served on staff with the mission of Young Life for 20 years in a variety of roles. She is also a certified Spiritual Director, a certified Enneagram Harmony Triad Practitioner, and holds a certification from the Transforming Center in Spiritual Formation. 

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CONNECT WITH KELSEY:

Website: https://www.kelseyjenney.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doodlediva/

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

“How do I get off of that wild roller coaster, that hamster wheel that I’m on…and find my way back to center, rooted and grounded in love?” -Chuck DeGroat, PhD, LPC

We all know what it feels like to be running at a pace we can't sustain, where the demand on our bodies—or our souls—becomes too much. The constant adrenaline carries us through...until it runs out, and we shut down or numb out just to find some rest.

But what if there was a different way to function? What if you could find a more compassionate way to live in your body—accessing resources that allow you to stay connected to yourself and to God, even when life gets hard?

In this episode, author, therapist, and spiritual director Chuck DeGroat invites us to imagine the kind voice of God, calling to us with compassionate questions that invite us to come "home." He shares his journey of learning to retrain his brain and body, offers tools for supporting our nervous system, and illuminates the connection between our bodily intuitions and spiritual lives.

Listen as we talk about things like: 

• The intersection of spirituality and mental health
• Understanding the ways our nervous system responds to overwhelm
• Practices for returning to center, or "coming home"
• The connection between our bodies and spiritual lives
• Considering God's questions in the garden as a framework for connection
• The roles of compassion and imagination as we encounter God
• How to offer a kind welcome to our thoughts, emotions, and embodied sensations

I hope this conversation will give you permission to look bravely and honestly within, believing that, as Chuck writes, "God's heart is always ready to help you find your way back home."

Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is an author, licensed therapist, church consultant, and spiritual director. He and his wife, Sara, have two daughters.

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CONNECT WITH CHUCK:

• Website - chuckdegroat.net
• Substack - https://sitwithchuck.substack.com/
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chuckdegroat/ or Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/chuck.degroat
• Healing What's Within: Coming Home to Yourself—and to God—When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering by Chuck DeGroat

OTHER RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE:

• Take What You Need: Soft Words for Hard Days by Aundi Kolber
• Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation by Martin Laird
• The Selfless Way of Christ: Downward Mobility and the Spiritual Life by Henri Nouwen
• Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nestor
• Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes: Cultural Studies in the Gospels by Kenneth E. Bailey

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

“People aren’t to be fixed. That’s not why we’re there. We’re there to connect. We’re there to connect with people and with God.” -Rachel Miller

Have you ever longed for deeper relationships? Are there parts of your story—or of yourself—that you keep from others because you don't know how they'll respond if you show up fully? Do you wonder if it's possible to truly experience the abundant life described by Jesus? This episode is for you.

Join me as my friend, Rachel Miller, talks about her experience in a confessional community—an intentional group of people who are "practicing for heaven" by telling their stories more truly. We talk about what it's like to be fully known by others, and the ways we've both been transformed by the compassionate presence of people who help us see ourselves through their eyes.

Listen to as we discuss things like:

• The terrifying vulnerability and healing power of sharing our stories with others
• Describing the confessional community model and the storytelling liturgy
• The power of being present to our emotions, bodies, and one another
• Permission to ask, "Will you tell me again?" when we're struggling to believe what others see in us
• How receiving compassion from our community helps us imagine the compassion of Jesus
• Invitations to practice giving and receiving love—imperfectly—over and over again

RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE

• Join a Confessional Community through the Center for Being Known - thecbk.org/ccs
• Being Known Podcast - Season 7: Confessional Communities 
• Being Known Podcast - Season 11: Rupture and Repair
• The Soul of Desire by Curt Thompson, MD

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

“God wants to enlarge our terrain of freedom. He wants to bring us through so he can set us free.” -Susan Bouterse

What if paying attention to our delight is part of how we notice God's invitation into a deeper journey with him?

This conversation with Susan Bouterse will invite you to expand your imagination for how God might be at work in your life, wooing you and stirring your heart in ways that "expand your terrain of freedom." Listen to Susan's journey through an unexpected career transition (from pediatrics to ministry?!), and to insights about the stages of faith—including encouragement for anyone facing their own "unraveling" or dark night of the soul. We hope you'll get a taste of the kindness of God through this honest, vulnerable conversation about how we've each experienced his love in tangible, embodied ways.

Susan Bouterse is the Pastor of Spiritual Formation at Anchor Church in Tacoma, Washington and the Executive Director of Anchor School of Discipleship & Ministry. She trained as a spiritual director through Soul Formation Academy and delights in seeing the One she loves reveal his love to another. Susan has a master’s degree in theological studies from Multnomah University. She is also an M.D. and practiced pediatrics for over 20 years before being called to ministry. Susan and her husband Phil have three grown children and enjoy the beauty and activities of the South Sound in the PNW. 

RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE:

• Anchor Church: https://anchortacoma.org/
• Anchor School: https://anchortacoma.org/anchorschool
• Previous episode - Soul Companionship for Your Spiritual Journey // Kari Mirro
• Soul of Shame by Dr. Curt Thompson
• Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Peter Scazzero
• Practicing the Way by John Mark Comer
• The Critical Journey by Janet O. Hagberg and Robert A. Guelich

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!

"He can use our failures, he can use our insecurities, he can use our parenting mistakes. He can use all of it. We just have to believe that he can and that’s where we have to start.”

For those who feel called to lead but wonder if they have what it takes, those who are weary from the costs of leadership, those with a vision for where they want to go but feel stuck in small beginnings—this conversation is for you. Join us me as I talk with Willow Weston about her leadership journey, and hear her invitation to collide with Jesus right where you are—believing he'll meet you, heal you, and use what you have in unexpected ways.

Willow Weston is an author, speaker, podcast host, conference curator and the Founder and Director of Collide, a nonprofit ministry based in the PNW with a national reach impacting thousands of women. She has been in ministry for 25 years and loves bringing passion, truth, and story into every room she walks into. She authentically shares her story of pain, and the beauty that comes out of it, in a way that inspires and encourages people to bravely invite Jesus into their own brokenness so they can experience hope and healing too. 

Willow, a mom and wife for over 25 years, is as real as it gets, obsessed with throwing parties, coffee, the beach, sunsets, kid cuddles, and a good, good story.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE:

• Connect with Willow on her website or Instagram 
• Listen Willow and Jillian on the Collide Podcast
• Pre-order Willow's book Collide: Running Into Healing When Life Hands You Hurt or the companion Bible study
• Check out the Yes, You Bible study from Collide
• Learn more about The Intentional Life course with Jillian starting October 14! 

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STAY CONNECTED

• Connect with Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliandebritz/
• Want to reach out to Jillian about speaking or coaching? Learn more on her website: https://jilliandebritz.com/
• Sign up for the monthly Permission Slips email newsletter: https://jilliandebritz.myflodesk.com/subscribe
• Subscribe to Permission Slips on Substack: https://substack.com/@jilliandebritz
• Be sure to subscribe to Permission Slips so you never miss an episode, and please share or review this podcast to help others find it!