Five years ago, the National Australia Bank was in deep damage control after losing both its chief executive Andrew Thorburn and chairman Ken Henry who were forced to resign after the banking royal commission.
The board of Australia's second biggest bank turned to banking veteran Ross McEwan to rescue the N-A-B and somehow restore it's smashed reputation.
Now Ross McEwan's time is up.
The 66 year old is retiring and making way for Andrew Irvine currently the head of the N-A-B's business bank.
The ABC's senior business correspondent Peter Ryan spoke to both bankers .. about scams, cheques and the future of cash .. but began with Ross McEwan about the early dark days after the Royal Commission.