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"If you don't hurt letting people go — large amounts of people — if that doesn't hurt you anymore, it's time to get out."
In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Jon Chee continues his conversation with Martin Brenner, CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of iBio, tracing his career through Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Merck. From re-engaging demoralized scientists after layoffs to a Moderna encounter when the company was just eight people strong, Martin offers a rare insider view of what it actually takes to drive innovation from within Big Pharma.
Key Topics Covered:

• Leaving Eli Lilly: A painful Hamburg site closure and the leadership instincts it forged.
• Pfizer vs. Lilly: Same targets, different machine — what the Wyeth acquisition revealed about scale.
• Cultural Fit: Why every rejection is a bullet dodged.
• Rebuilding After Layoffs: The biotech playbook Martin used at Pfizer Groton to re-engage scientists.
• The Moderna Spark: Eight-person Moderna outpacing AstraZeneca's 150-person team ignited Martin's biotech drive.
• Building a Biotech Inside Merck: The vision, the wins, the politics — and the Keytruda mic-drop that pushed him out.

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Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Martin Brenner at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinbrenner/ Website: https://ibioinc.com/ 
Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee/ 
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com 
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 
Resources & Articles:Why Biotech Startups Struggle to Scale: https://www.excedr.com/resources/why-some-biotech-startups-struggle-to-scale Common Biotech Startup Mistakes: https://www.excedr.com/blog/common-business-mistakes When & How to Pivot a Biotech: https://www.excedr.com/blog/when-how-to-pivot-a-biotech-startup Biotech vs. Big Pharma — Which Is the Better Place to Work?: https://www.biospace.com/biotech-vs-big-pharma-which-is-the-better-place-to-work Chagas Heart Failure in Latin America: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5490952/ The History Behind Merck's Keytruda: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidshaywitz/2017/07/26/the-startling-history-behind-mercks-new-cancer-blockbuster/ 
Companies, Universities & People Mentioned:Eli Lilly: https://www.lilly.com Pfizer / Wyeth: https://www.pfizer.com AstraZeneca: https://www.astrazeneca.com Merck: https://www.merck.com Moderna: https://www.modernatx.com iBio: https://ibioinc.com Kobe University: https://www.kobe-u.ac.jp/en/ University of Tokyo: https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/en/ UT Southwestern: https://www.utsouthwestern.edu Columbia University: https://www.columbia.edu UC San Diego: https://ucsd.edu 
Markus Schindler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcus-schindler-phd Saswata Talukdar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saswata-talukdar-3b20942a Roger Perlmutter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-m-perlmutter-73033920a Mark Ahern: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markeahern 
Timestamps:00:00 Intro01:44 The Hamburg Site Closure and What It Takes to Lead Through Loss08:17 Pfizer vs. Lilly: Same Targets, Different Animals10:04 Finding Cultural Fit: Why Rejections Are Bullets Dodged12:11 Re-Engaging a Demoralized Team After a Layoff17:23 Why Big Pharma Stumbles More Than You'd Think18:35 AstraZeneca Gothenburg: Tearing Down Silos and Ringing the Cowbell22:21 The Moderna Spark That Changed Everything24:58 When Personal Life Forces a Professional Pivot25:40 Building a Biotech Inside Merck30:19 The Chagas Mic Drop: When Keytruda Killed a Promising Program32:14 Smallest Teams, Bottom-Up Culture Change

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.