🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr's partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.

"A financial model is the strategy of a business expressed in numbers."
In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Jon Chee sits down with Mike Stadnisky, Managing Director of Thielsen Capital, a seed-stage life science tools syndicate. A veteran of four-plus M&A cycles as CEO of FlowJo and Phytonix, Mike walks through the mechanics founders most often get wrong: when to call in partnership favors, how shared customers become acquisition seeds, what IP and cap table hygiene should look like before a deal, and why a rigorous financial model is your most powerful negotiating tool.
Key Topics Covered:

• Patience in BD Partnerships: Why the right time to call in a favor is rarely when you're stressed — and how to use conference deadlines as quiet leverage.
• Shared Customers as M&A Seeds: How raving fans in a shared customer base are both your best BD signal and the earliest seed of an acquisition.
• Corporate and IP Hygiene: What to fix before anyone opens your data room — cap tables, NDA labeling, trade secrets, and VDR discipline.
• Financial Models for Acquirers: Why top-down TAM slides kill deals, how to hire a de facto CFO, and how to reveal scale breaks and pricing leverage.
• Thielsen Capital's Picks and Shovels Thesis: Why life science tools are the Gold Rush infrastructure play and why the power law VC model fails commercial biotech.
• Default Alive and Incentive Alignment: Charlie Munger's "show me the incentives" — and why the right cap table is a founder's most powerful lever.

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Mike Stadnisky at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikestadnisky/ Website: https://www.thielsencapital.com/ 
Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee/ 
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com 
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 
Resources & Articles:What Is Financial Modeling & How Can It Help with Fundraising?: https://www.excedr.com/resources/what-is-financial-modeling Exit Strategies in Life Sciences Venture Capital: https://www.excedr.com/blog/exit-strategies-in-life-sciences-venture-capital Intellectual Property Strategy for Biotech Companies: https://www.excedr.com/resources/intellectual-property-strategy-for-biotechs How Biotech Partnerships Support R&D: https://www.excedr.com/blog/how-biotech-partnerships-support-research Why Some Biotech Startups Struggle to Scale: https://www.excedr.com/resources/why-some-biotech-startups-struggle-to-scale Default Alive or Default Dead? (Paul Graham): https://paulgraham.com/aord.html 
Companies, Universities, & People Mentioned:FlowJo: https://www.flowjo.com Phytonix: https://phytonix.com 
Frank Slootman (CEO, Snowflake): https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankslootman Carl June (Pioneer of CAR-T Therapy, University of Pennsylvania): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_H._June Charlie Munger (Vice Chairman, Berkshire Hathaway): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger Steven J. Visco (Co-founder & CEO, PolyPlus Battery Company): https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-j-visco-2910b57 

Timestamps:00:00 Intro01:36 Patience and Asymmetry in BD Partnerships02:44 Using Conferences to Create Partnership Urgency08:53 Shared Customers and the Seeds of M&A12:41 Strategic Optionality and the FlowJo Acquisition Story16:06 Corporate, IP, and Cap Table Hygiene for Exit Readiness20:25 Building a Financial Model That Moves Acquirers27:46 Thielsen Capital: The Life Science Tools Thesis37:11 Power Law VC and the Overfunding Problem42:09 Default Alive, Incentive Alignment, and Charlie Munger54:42 Advice to Your 21-Year-Old Self56:24 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr's partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners
"Startups don't partner with startups, okay? Let's just get that out of the way right now."
In this episode, Jon Chee continues his conversation with Mike Stadnisky, Managing Director of Thielsen Capital, on his transition from academic scientist to BD leader. Mike unpacks what business development really means in life science, why chasing "the decision maker" is the wrong frame, and how to identify the technical and business champions who actually move deals inside large organizations.
Key Topics Covered:

• Informational Interviews: The career advice Mike once dismissed — and why he now evangelizes it to every scientist he meets.
• What BD Really Means: How scientists break into business development and why technical credibility is the key entry point.
• Startups Don't Partner with Startups: Why small-to-large is the only structure that works — and the asymmetry that drives it.
• Decision Makers vs. Champions: Why the most common BD advice is wrong and how to find the champions who actually move deals.
• Semantic Hacking: How mining earnings calls for a company's own language transforms a pitch into a strategic fit.
• The Human Side of Entrepreneurship: Why your significant other, peer group, and mentors are the overlooked scaffolding behind every founder's success.

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Mike Stadnisky at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikestadnisky/ Website: https://www.thielsencapital.com/ 
Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee/ 
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com 
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 
Resources & Articles:How to Bootstrap a Biotech Startup: https://www.excedr.com/resources/how-to-bootstrap-biotech-startup The Ins and Outs of Informational Interviewing: https://www.berkeleysciencereview.com/article/2020/12/15/the-ins-and-outs-of-informational-interviewing The People Side of Biotech Deals: https://lifescivc.com/2013/07/the-people-side-of-biotech-deal-making/ Champion vs. Decision Maker in B2B: https://www.frederikvosberg.de/blog/champion-vs-decision-maker-whom-to-target-in-b2b-customer-discovery How to Read Earnings Reports: https://bookmap.com/blog/how-to-read-earnings-reports-a-guide-for-traders The Lean Startup Principles: https://theleanstartup.com/principles 
Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:FlowJo: https://www.flowjo.com 

Timestamps:00:00 Intro01:41 Informational Interviews04:58 Job Search as a Sales Pipeline09:13 Significant Others & Entrepreneurship11:56 The Power of Your Peer Group14:10 Wearing Many Hats at FlowJo16:58 What Business Development Means18:22 Startups Don't Partner With Startups20:22 The Value Proposition Pitch22:33 Big Game Hunting & Semantic Hacking25:48 Decision Makers vs. Champions33:44 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr's partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners
"I always joke — I got my MBA from my dad before I ever even considered what the heck I wanted to do with it."
In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Jon Chee sits down with Mike Stadnisky, Managing Director of Thielsen Capital — a seed-stage life science tools syndicate. Before Thielsen, Mike was CEO of Phytonix (acquired by Thermo Fisher) and FlowJo (acquired by BD Life Sciences), and has taught at MIT Sloan. In Part 1, Mike traces his path from growing up with a chemical engineer father who gave him early exposure to business strategy, to studying biochemistry at Clemson, to working as a Red Bull Student Brand Manager — a role that shaped his enduring "care before you share" philosophy: meeting people where they are, not where it's convenient. He carried that mindset into grad school at UVA, where he joined Michael Brown's lab to study NK cells and innate immunity, fell in love with flow cytometry, and had his first (tearful) encounter with FlowJo.
Key Topics Covered:

• Business at the Dinner Table: How his chemical engineer father gave him an early, unfiltered business education
• Red Bull Brand Manager: Lessons in authentic connection and meeting people in their "moment of need"
• Biochemistry at Clemson: How a high school biology-chemistry program and Gattaca locked in his life science path
• Choosing Brown's Lab at UVA: Why lab culture matters as much as the science, and how small labs mirror startups
• NK Cells & Flow Cytometry: His PhD research focus and the origin story of a tools obsession that defined his career
• The PhD as an Ultra-Marathon: Why sustainable effort beats sprinting, and how grad school stress-tests you for every business ahead

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.
Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Mike Stadnisky at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikestadnisky/ Website: https://www.thielsencapital.com/ 
Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee/ 
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com 
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin

Resources & Articles:What Is Flow Cytometry & How Do Flow Cytometers Work?: https://www.excedr.com/blog/what-is-flow-cytometry-how-do-flow-cytometers-work How to Break Into Biotech BD as a PhD Student: https://www.excedr.com/blog/how-to-break-into-biotech-bd-as-a-phd-student How to Spin Out of Academia & Into a Startup: https://www.excedr.com/resources/how-to-spin-out-of-academia-and-into-a-startup Why Some Biotech Startups Struggle to Scale: https://www.excedr.com/resources/why-some-biotech-startups-struggle-to-scale Gattaca (1997): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/ Hidden Talents of Natural Killers: NK Cells in Innate and Adaptive Immunity (EMBO Reports): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2759738/ How Experts Practice Better Than the Rest — Deliberate Practice & the 10,000 Hour Rule: https://jamesclear.com/deliberate-practice-strategy 


Companies, Universities, & People Mentioned:

Companies & Universities:Thielsen Capital: https://www.thielsencapital.com FlowJo: https://www.flowjo.com BD Life Sciences: https://www.bd.com Thermo Fisher Scientific: https://www.thermofisher.com Red Bull: https://www.redbull.com/us-en Clemson University: https://www.clemson.edu University of Virginia: https://www.virginia.edu MIT Sloan School of Management: https://mitsloan.mit.edu 
People:Michael Brown, Ph.D. (Professor of Medicine – Nephrology, UVA; Principal Investigator, Brown Lab): https://med.virginia.edu/faculty/faculty-listing/mgb4n/

Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:28 Growing Up at the Intersection of Business and Science07:52 The Science Obsession: Chemistry Textbooks and Secret Knowledge10:13 Biochemistry at Clemson: Earning the Hard Course16:09 Becoming a Red Bull Student Brand Manager on Campus18:31 Care Before You Share: Selling to Engineers at Midnight24:46 Leaving Red Bull Behind: The Pull Back to the Lab31:16 Michael Brown's Lab at UVA: NK Cells and Lab Culture39:12 Falling in Love with Flow Cytometry and Crying Over FlowJo41:31 The PhD as an Ultra-Marathon: Finding Your Sustainable Pace48:45 The Lab as a Startup: Skin in the Game Science49:55 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.

"Trust yourself, trust your instincts, and also the relationships and partnerships that you build along the way — because at the end of the day, it's all about the people."

In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, we dive into how Nalu Bio CEO and co-founder Caitlyn Krebs is harnessing AI and the largely untapped endocannabinoid system (ECS) to build the first nonhormonal therapeutic for the two hundred million women living with endometriosis, while running an ultra-lean company with no lab, no university royalties, and a fully outsourced CRO/CMO model. She explains why CB1 and CB2 GPCRs are among pharma’s most druggable targets, how Nalu’s platform has sped drug development by 5x while doubling phase one success rates, and why the ECS may be medicine’s most overlooked frontier amid a women’s health landscape still dominated by opioids, chemical menopause, and invasive surgery.


Key topics covered:

• Capital Efficiency in Biotech: Why your next value inflection point matters more than a two-year runway
• Founding Nalu Bio: How two VC cofounders built a lean, lab-free CRO/CMO-driven company from day one
• The Endocannabinoid System: Why CB1 and CB2 GPCRs are among pharma's most druggable — and most ignored — targets
• Endometriosis & the Unmet Need: The brutal reality of treating 200 million women with opioids, hormones, and surgery
• AI-Driven Drug Discovery: 5x faster development, 2x better phase one success rates — before a molecule is ever made
• Pipeline vs. Platform: Feeding the engine while bringing your drug assets to market
• Global CRO Strategy: Picking the best partners worldwide for speed, quality, and cost efficiency
• IP Strategy: Why Nalu guards its platform as a trade secret — not a patent
• Women's Health as an Investment: $100 billion in exits over 25 years — women are not a niche market

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.


Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Caitlyn Krebs at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitlynkrebs/Website: https://www.nalubio.com/ Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 

Resources & Articles:The Endocannabinoid System: Essential and Mysterious https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-endocannabinoid-system-essential-and-mysterious-202108112569Review of the Endocannabinoid System – NIH/PMC https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7855189/CB1 & CB2 Receptor Pharmacology – NIH/PMChttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5812699/Endometriosis Treatment Options – Franciscan Healthhttps://www.franciscanhealth.org/community/blog/endometriosis-treatment-optionsThe Four Stages of Endometriosis – CCRM Fertility https://www.ccrmivf.com/blog/four-stages-of-endometriosis/The Role of AI in Biotech and AI-Driven Drug Discovery https://cbdw.ai/the-role-of-ai-in-biotech-and-ai-driven-drug-discovery/AI in Pharma and Biotech: R&D Case Studies & Trends https://intuitionlabs.ai/articles/ai-pharma-biotech-drug-discovery-case-studies

Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:BlueStar Genomics: https://spirolab.com/project/bluestar-genomics/Rock Health: https://rockhealth.comNVIDIA Inception Program: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/startups/Silicon Valley Bank (SVB): https://www.svb.comFounders Fund: https://foundersfund.com
Phyllis Whiteley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phyllis-whiteley-phd-b5821317Ken Mackie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ken-mackie-2602057


Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:24 Capital Efficiency and Getting to the Next Inflection Point05:39 The Origin of Nalu Bio and the Endocannabinoid System07:32 Co-founding Nalu Bio with Phyllis and Randall08:07 Early Days: Building the Team and Technology10:08 Endometriosis: The Market, the Problem, and the Patients17:05 Balancing Pipeline vs. Platform Development18:57 Business Model: Licensing Assets at Phase Two20:53 Company Structure: CROs, CMOs, and Capital Efficiency22:37 Choosing CRO Partners by Region and Size25:38 From Platform-Building to the Clinic: Nalu Bio's Evolution27:14 IP Strategy: Patents vs. Trade Secrets31:10 Looking Ahead: Phase Two, Pharma Partnerships, and AI34:47 Shout-Outs and Closing Advice37:55 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.
"You just don't know where these people will play a role in your life, but also, you don't know who they know. Business is a small community, and the journey's long."

In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Caitlyn Krebs traces her path from a gut-punch company shutdown on maternity leave — which unexpectedly forged a key cofounder relationship — through the digital health boom at Rock Health, to her role as COO at Neurotrack, where an eye-tracking Alzheimer's test launched to 137 countries within days and led to selling cognitive risk scores to Japanese life insurers as the only woman in the room. She closes out her pre-Nalu journey at BlueStar Genomics, where hard lessons in capital discipline and the dangers of scope creep shaped the focused, founder-ready mindset she brings to building Nalu Bio today.

Key Topics Covered:

• Turning Adversity into Opportunity: How a shutdown on maternity leave sparked an unexpected cofounder relationship
• VC Mindset at Rock Health: What VCs really look for — team, traction, market size, and the D2C trap
• Neurotrack & Cognitive Health: Going global in days with an eye-tracking Alzheimer's test and selling risk scores to Japanese life insurers
• Cross-Cultural Enterprise Sales: Holding her ground in high-stakes negotiations in Japan as the only woman in the room
• Capital Discipline & Focus: Why staying in your lane — and resisting the urge to do it all — is a startup superpower
  
  

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.
Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Caitlyn Krebs at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitlynkrebs/Website: https://www.nalubio.com/
 Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 

Resources & Articles:Eye Tracking as a Tool for Alzheimer's Detection https://www.tobii.com/resource-center/learn-articles/4-methods-to-assess-alzheimers-with-eye-trackingIs D2C in HealthTech a Viable Business Model? https://healthtechd2c.substack.com/p/is-d2c-in-healthtech-a-viable-businessHealthTech Business Models Explained: The Case for B2B2C https://htdhealth.com/insights/healthtech-business-models-explained-benefits-of-b2b2c/A Guide to the Venture Capitalist Decision-Making Process https://www.excedr.com/resources/guide-to-the-venture-capitalist-decision-making-process VC Funding 101 https://www.excedr.com/blog/vc-funding-101 

Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:Rock Health: https://rockhealth.comNeurotrack: https://www.neurotrack.comGRAIL: https://grail.com

Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:20 Lessons from Tethys: Reimbursement Risk and Commercialization Challenges04:29 Shutting Down on Maternity Leave and Turning a Wind‑Down into a Cofounder Relationship08:28 Long‑Game Relationship Building and Why You Don’t Burn Bridges10:26 Selling “Your Baby”: Finding a New Home for Tethys’ Technology12:28 Entering the Digital Health Boom at Rock Health14:38 How VCs Evaluate Startups: Team, Traction, Market, and Business Model17:02 The D2C Pendulum and Emerging Women’s Health Channels19:40 Joining Neurotrack: Eye‑Tracking to Detect Early Cognitive Decline22:31 Launching a Web‑Based Alzheimer’s Risk Test in 137 Countries and D2C Lessons24:09 Selling Cognitive Risk Scores to Japanese Life Insurers as a Female Executive34:18 Epigenetics and Early Cancer Detection at BlueStar Genomics, Focus, and Capital Discipline37:05 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.

"If you are capable of acquiring knowledge, of applying the knowledge, and you like it, you can succeed. It doesn't matter what it is."
In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Caitlyn Krebs, co-founder and CEO of Nalu Bio, traces her path from building the Bay Area's biotech ecosystem to operating at the cutting edge of science and business. She shares how launching BayBioNEST taught her what it really takes—beyond great science—to build durable companies, before diving into her time at Entelos, where she helped pioneer virtual patients and digital twins nearly twenty years before AI became a buzzword, and unpacks what BD actually means in biotech, from navigating black-box skepticism to running "bake-off" pilots that let the data speak for itself. The conversation then shifts to Tethys Bioscience, where Caitlyn helped bring a prediabetes diagnostic to market—winning over physicians, employers, and major payers like Aetna, United, and Cigna—only to watch a single Medicare/CMS misstep shutter a well-funded company, and what every founder can learn from that hard-won experience.


Key topics covered:

• Building BayBioNEST: Launching a scrappy pre-accelerator to give academic scientists the business skills they never learned at the bench.
• Pioneering virtual patients: Building biological models and digital twins decades before AI hype to reshape drug development.
• What BD really is in biotech: Structuring deals, overcoming skepticism, and using “bake-off” pilots so the science sells itself.
• Selling prediabetes diagnostics: Winning physicians and employers over to a predictive test for an under-recognized disease.
• The power and peril of reimbursement: How one Medicare/CMS call can wipe out strong data, major payers, and massive funding.
  
  

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Caitlyn Krebs at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitlynkrebs/Website: https://www.nalubio.com/ Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 

Resources & Articles:What Is Business Development in Biotech & Pharma? https://chivanta.com/what-is-business-development-biotech-pharma/What Is Quantitative Systems Pharmacology (QSP) Modeling? https://www.news-medical.net/life-sciences/What-is-Quantitative-Systems-Pharmacology-(QSP)-Modeling.aspxHow CMS/Medicare Reimbursement Works for Diagnostic Lab Tests https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medical-devices/diagnostics-companies-strike-back-at-cms-lab-test-ruleTop Biotech Accelerators and Incubators in 2026 https://www.peony.ink/blog/top-10-biotech-startup-acceleratorsQuantitative Systems Pharmacology (QSP) Modeling – University of Florida Course Overviewhttps://onlinepc.pharmacy.ufl.edu/programs/courses/quantitative-systems-pharmacology-qsp-modeling/US Medicare Sets Reimbursement Price for PromarkerD — A Case Study in Diagnostic Reimbursementhttps://biotechdispatch.com.au/news/us-medicare-sets-reimbursement-price-for-promarkerd-paving-way-for-major-commercial-rollout

Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:Entelos: https://mtec-sc.org/life-sciences/entelosPfizer: https://www.pfizer.comAetna: https://www.aetna.comUnitedHealthcare: https://www.uhc.comCigna: https://www.cigna.comGeorge Rathmann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Rathmann
Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:16 Fundraising and Running BayBio's Membership Organization02:30 Launching BayBioNEST: A Pre-Accelerator for Academic Scientists06:55 The Rise of Biotech Incubators and Early Ecosystem Building09:50 Transitioning from Ecosystem Builder to Operator10:36 Entelos: Pioneering Virtual Patients and Digital Twins11:52 What Business Development (BD) Really Means in Biotech15:44 The "Bake-Off" Strategy: Letting the Models Speak for Themselves18:51 Moving On: The Pull Toward a Product Company19:36 Joining Tethys Bioscience and Selling Prediabetes Diagnostics21:52 Mapping the Healthcare Ecosystem: Patients, Physicians, and Employers22:52 The Medicare/CMS Misstep That Shut Down a $200M Company23:32 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.


“There are many different ways to get into leadership roles in biotech — there is not one door.”

In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Caitlyn Krebs, co-founder and CEO of Nalu Bio, traces her journey from tagging endangered sea turtles on the Big Island of Hawaii to leading an AI-powered company designing novel cannabinoid-inspired small molecules for pain, inflammation, endometriosis, and metabolic disease. She reflects on being humbled at Brown University, where she fell in love with data analysis while studying leptin and early obesity science, then recounts jumping into the Bay Area’s dot-com boom as the third employee at a startup before, at just 27, taking the helm of BayBio and managing a 26-person board of biotech leaders—along the way crossing paths with a 20-year-old Stanford dropout named Elizabeth Holmes.

Key topics covered:

• Growing Up in Hawaii: Tagging endangered sea turtles and discovering a lifelong passion for science
• Brown University & Early Humility: Getting humbled at an Ivy, doubling down on orgo, and falling in love with data
• From .com to Biotech: Jumping into a dot-com startup and learning entrepreneurship the hard way
• Running BayBio at 27: Leading a biotech trade group and a 26-person board long before most peers managed a team
• Board Management Lessons: Keeping board meetings focused, aligning motivations, and leveling up with modern tools like Zeck
  
  

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Caitlyn Krebs at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitlynkrebs/Website: https://www.nalubio.com/ Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 

Resources & Articles:Hawaiian Green Sea Turtle Conservation: https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/green-turtleThe Endocannabinoid System Explained: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5576607/Endometriosis: A Chronically Underserved Condition: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/endometriosisOrganic chemistry explained: https://www.britannica.com/science/organic-chemistryThe Dot-Com Boom and Its Legacy on Silicon Valley: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dotcom-bubble.aspAI-Powered Drug Discovery in Biotech: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-023-01693-z​Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:Brown University: https://www.brown.edu/Zeck: https://www.zeck.app/
John C. Martin: https://www.gilead.com/news/news-details/2021/gilead-sciences-comments-on-the-passing-of-john-c-martin-phdElizabeth Holmes: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-holmes-bb7326238Edward Norton: https://fortune.com/2024/04/29/zeck-cofounded-by-edward-norton-raises-7-million-board-meetings-software/

Timestamps: 00:00 Intro05:02 Growing Up on the Big Island of Hawaii06:37 Tagging Endangered Hawaiian Green Sea Turtles08:01 Choosing Brown University Over the West Coast10:26 Culture Shock: From Hawaii to Providence14:01 Undergraduate Lab Experience and Falling in Love with Data17:09 Moving to San Francisco During the Dot-Com Boom18:40 Joining Zedo as a Third Employee and Learning Entrepreneurship21:46 Managing Engineers for the First Time24:14 Transitioning Into the Biotech World via BayBio26:18 Becoming President of BayBio at 2728:38 Key Lessons and Pitfalls in Board Management31:59 Using Zeck to Streamline Board Meetings33:52 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.

"Not wrapping your entire self-worth up in whether or not your company works — that is a learned skill."

In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Siren Biotechnology CEO & Founder, Nicole Paulk unpacks why being a first-time female technical academic founder CEO — "the worst possible thing you could be" — was actually the best CEO training imaginable. She breaks down how her scrappy academic mindset stretched a $6M seed round across three and a half years, why going all-in on unglamorous CMC optimization was Siren Biotechnology's most important early decision, and why capital efficiency is a company-defining mindset, not just a financial strategy. Nicole also opens up about the loneliness of the founder CEO role, the toxic culture of "competitive complaining" at industry meetups, and the profound weight of Siren's recent FDA IND clearance — and what it means to be on the verge of dosing the very first brain cancer patient at UCSF.


Key topics covered:

• Academic Founders as CEOs: Why scrappy scientists make the best capital-efficient startup builders
• Stretching Capital: How Siren's $6M seed lasted three and a half years — and why a long runway forces better science
• CMC as a Competitive Advantage: Why early investment in unglamorous manufacturing optimization can make or break your company
• Founder Mental Health & Loneliness: The risks of tying your identity to your company and why "competitive complaining" is toxic for the industry
• Siren's FDA IND Milestone: The profound weight of becoming clinical-stage and nearing the first brain cancer patient dose
  
  

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Nicole Paulk at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolepaulk/Website: https://sirenbiotechnology.com/ Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 
Resources & Articles:Lean Startup Principles for Founders:https://hbr.org/2013/05/why-the-lean-start-up-changes-everythingIND (Investigational New Drug) Application Basics:https://www.fda.gov/drugs/types-applications/investigational-new-drug-ind-applicationFounder Burnout and Mental Health in Startups:https://www.ycombinator.com/library/6i-how-to-deal-with-founder-depression
Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:Silicon Valley Bank (SVB): https://www.svb.comFounders Fund: https://foundersfund.com
Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:24 Why Being a First-Time Female Academic Founder CEO Is the Best CEO Training09:59 Making a Small Seed Round Last: How $6M Stretched Three and a Half Years11:00 The Case for Capital Efficiency and Thoughtful Science16:23 The Problem with Founder "Bitch-Fest" Meetups19:16 A Better Model: Solution-Focused Founder Gatherings22:11 The Loneliness of the Founder CEO and Mental Health23:54 Knowing When to Dial It Up and Dial It Back26:23 Building Community Without Competitive Complaining29:54 Advice to Her 21-Year-Old Self: Follow the Weird Little Sprites33:04 Shoutouts and Gratitude34:20 Siren's FDA IND Clearance and the First Patient on the Horizon38:40 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.

"Just that ability to have pure, unfettered, unbothered, and undistracted time to just really go hard and let the science take you where it will. I think that could be transformative."

In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, Nicole Paulk recounts her unlikely evolution from frustrated academic to biotech founder — driven by years of watching gene therapy companies wastefully rebuild the same tech stack from scratch, a pandemic lockout that barred her from her own UCSF lab, and a sneaky incorporation scheme that was less grand vision, more workaround to get back to the bench. She shares how a frantic three-day cancer grant, a fever-dreamed logo, and a Best Startup win at UCSF's entrepreneurship course led to a $6,000,000 Founders Fund seed with no board attached, and how Siren's unconventional early bet on unglamorous CMC manufacturing optimization — paired with years of deliberate stealth — became the company's most powerful and defensible competitive advantage.

Key Topics Covered:

• The Gene Therapy Tech Stack Problem: Every AAV company rebuilding the same wheel — and the bold idea that sparked Siren
• Founding Siren: How a pandemic lockout, a brain tumor grant, and a sneaky incorporation gave birth to a biotech company
• Founders Fund & the Boardless Seed: $6M, no board, no permission needed — and why Nicole thinks more startups should start this way
• The Unglamorous CMC Bet: Going all-in on manufacturing optimization from day one — boring on purpose, defensible forever
• Stealth, IP, and Operating in an Accelerating World: Why the old rules on patents and publishing are dead — and what founders should do instead
  
  

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Nicole Paulk at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolepaulk/Website: https://sirenbiotechnology.com/ Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 
Resources & Articles:AAV Gene Therapy Overview: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5548848/AAV as a Clinical Gene Therapy Vector: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-024-01780-wWhat Is AAV Gene Therapy?: https://www.creative-diagnostics.com/what-is-aav-gene-therapy.htmViral Vectors in Gene & Cell Therapy (AAV included): https://patienteducation.asgct.org/understanding-cell-gene-therapy/viral-vectorsThe Age of AAV in Gene Therapy: https://wyss.harvard.edu/news/gene-therapy-the-age-of-aav/CMC Requirements for Gene and Cell Therapy INDs: https://pacificbiolabs.com/gene-therapy-cmc-requirements/

Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:Founders Fund: https://foundersfund.comBayer (Collaborator incubator context): https://www.bayer.comNIH (National Institutes of Health): https://www.nih.gov/
Jennifer Doudna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-doudna-79b63527/ Scott Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottpnolan/ 
Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:19 Frustrations with Gene Therapy's "Reinvent the Wheel" Problem03:41 The Vision for a Universal AAV Gene Therapy07:00 Ballooning Costs and the Perverse Incentives of the Gene Therapy Market09:31 The UCSF Brain Tumor Gift and a Frantic Three-Day Two-Pager11:55 COVID Shuts Down the Lab: Industry vs. Academia as Essential Workers12:27 Incorporating Siren as a Sneaky Way to Get Back to Work14:16 UCSF Entrepreneurship Course, Winning Best Startup, and Landing Founders Fund16:02 The Freedom of $6M with No Board: Moving Fast and Doing Better Science24:15 Going All-In on CMC: The Unglamorous but Smart Early Move28:41 Staying Stealth: When to Come Out and When to Stay Hidden34:49 The Future of Biotech: Small, Nimble, and Focused Teams37:33 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.

🧬 The Biotech Startups Podcast is powered by Excedr—helping life science startups accelerate R&D and commercialization with founder-friendly equipment leasing. Skip the upfront costs, stay lean, and focus on breakthrough science.
As a TBSP listener, you can get exclusive perks through Excedr’s partner network—special savings, promotions, and more. Explore these offers today: https://www.excedr.com/partners.

"Your life doesn't have to be scripted. Really cool things can happen in an unscripted life if you're open to opportunity and willing to take risks and do cool stuff."

In this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast, we continue founder, CEO, and president of Siren Biotechnology, Nicole Paulk's journey from small-town farm kid to pioneering gene therapy scientist. Nicole recounts how a Craigslist ad landed her in the lab of one of the most celebrated stem cell scientists in the country, Markus Grompe — blissfully unaware of his fame, she spent months calling him "Marky Mark," planting whoopee cushions under his chair, and filling donut holes with Sriracha, only to discover he was the stem cell adviser to the President of the United States. She reflects on her PhD years as the "golden, pure, best days" of her scientific life, then contrasts that with the culture shock of Stanford's relentless postdoc hustle, a world of constant CV-optimization and pressure to pursue academia at all costs. Nicole shares how landing a coveted K01 grant gave her the credentials to walk through any university door she wanted, eventually bringing her to UCSF just nine months before COVID would turn everything upside down.

Key topics covered:

• The Craigslist Lab Discovery: How one unscripted career move led Nicole to one of the most celebrated stem cell labs in the country
• Working With Markus Grompe: Pranks, camaraderie, and world-class science in a lab that had culture before culture was a thing
• PhD vs. Postdoc: Free-spirited curiosity versus the relentless CV-optimization grind of Stanford
• Academic Pressure & Identity: Why postdoc culture pushes trainees toward academia at all costs — and why that needs to change
• From Stanford to UCSF: A K01 grant, a bold leap to UCSF, and then COVID hits
  
  

If you enjoy The Biotech Startups Podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biotech-startups-podcast/id1679591994Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2PSL162R2s0zOwU5913Zv4Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thebiotechstartupspodcast Website: https://www.thebiotechstartupspodcast.com/ 
Find our guest, Nicole Paulk at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolepaulk/Website: https://sirenbiotechnology.com/ Find our host, Jon Chee, at these links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonchee
Learn more about Excedr:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/excedr/ Website: https://www.excedr.com
Intro & Outro Songs Created by OkKyojin, Owned by Excedr:Website: https://flow.page/kyojin 
Resources & Articles:AAV (Adeno-Associated Virus) Gene Therapy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeno-associated_virusStem Cell Research in the 2000s: https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/stem-cell-research-2000sThe Oregon Stem Cell Center at OHSU: https://www.ohsu.edu/stem-cell-centerNIH K01 Mentored Research Scientist Development Award: https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/pa-files/PA-24-176.htmlPhD vs. Postdoc: Mental Health & Pressure in Academia: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11693439/COVID-19's Impact on Academic Research Labs: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00663-2
Companies, Universities, & People mentioned:OHSU (Oregon Health & Science University): https://www.ohsu.eduStanford University: https://www.stanford.eduUCSF (University of California, San Francisco): https://www.ucsf.edu
Markus Grompe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markus-grompe-m-d-66211273/ Mark A. Kay: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-kay-md-phd-41a7313/ 

Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:21 Finding a Lab Job on Craigslist and Landing at OHSU05:31 Discovering Markus Grompe Was Famous (All Along)07:01 Whoopee Cushions, Sriracha Donuts, and "Marky Mark"10:01 Joining Grompe's Lab and the Golden Days of the PhD13:06 Life Advice: You Don't Have to Script Your Journey15:46 Transitioning from PhD to Postdoc at Stanford19:11 Stanford's Hustle Culture: Loved It and Hated It21:21 The Pressure of the Postdoc: Finding a Real Plan22:31 Academia's "Professor or Failure" Mentality24:26 Earning the K01 Grant and Moving to UCSF25:51 COVID Shuts Down the Lab — and Sparks the Founding of Siren26:12 Outro

The Biotech Startups Podcast gives you a front-row seat to the business and science of building a biotech. Hosted by Jon Chee, CEO of Excedr, the show features honest conversations with founders, execs, and investors about their work, their companies, and how they got there. From scientific breakthroughs to startup lessons, each episode explores what it really takes to grow a life science company—from pre-seed to IPO.