In the first Act of this week’s conversation Jonny talks to the pride of Nempnett Thrubwell, the internationally renowned director of Mamma Mia on stage and screen, Phyllida Lloyd. Phyllida directed Meryl Streep to an Oscar for playing Margaret Thatcher in The Iron Lady but her visionary work in the theatre long preceded that. Phyllida’s remembers Jonny in a pond, talks about her most recent stage production at the National Theatre in 2023- a verbatim play based on the testimony of the survivors of the Grenfell fire-and how theatre can play a part in bringing a public outrage to account. They also discuss how Mamma Mia was a cultural disrupter, Phyllida’s problem with spreadsheets, the power of art in prison and what it takes for an actor to endure through a lifetime.

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