Recorded November 7 2025 | 39 min 00 sec | Guest: Rebecca Mbaya

Highlights

• Agency, ownership, and belonging in African AI futures

• Why representation and authority matter in data work

• The hidden costs of AI: Congo, cobalt, and systemic inequality

• Rebalancing the WEIRD default (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic)

Summary

In this powerful conversation, Rebecca Mbaya — social innovator, researcher, and creator of The African Innovators Series — joins Jax and Erik to explore AI through an African lens.

Rebecca works in data and evaluation to bridge historical context, lived experience, and systemic analysis. From the DRC’s role in powering global technology to the erasure of African realities in AI systems, she brings clarity to issues too often hidden behind the curtain.

Together, we unpack agency, language, representation, and responsibility — and what it means to shape AI futures for the next generations. The conversation ranges from colonial legacies to data annotation, mothering to mentorship, and colonial memory to collective action.

As Rebecca closes with a simple, powerful invitation to always ask who is left out of this conversation, she offers that we have a choice to be on the right side of history.

Takeaways

• Agency is foundational: African communities must not wait for permission to shape AI futures.
• Language shapes reality: AI is built on WEIRD assumptions — and that must shift.
• Representation is not enough: Data workers need authority, voice, and fair conditions.
• AI reveals structural cracks: Technology pulls back the curtain on systems we can no longer ignore, but the onus still falls on us.




🔗 Links & ResourcesFeatured

• Rebecca’s Substack

• The African Innovators Series (TAIS)

• LinkedIn — Rebecca Mbaya

  
  

  Referenced

• WEIRD framework (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic)

• “54 Shades of Africa” Substack series (link)

• Work on data annotation and global south labor

• PLANET Framework (People, Language, Agency, Need, Environment, Technique)




Sound Bites / Quotes

• On Agency: “Agency is really about a sense of ownership, understanding that. So a sense of ownership and a sense of belonging, right? Understanding that I belong to this conversation. I have a part to play. I also own a part of this space, right?”

• On AI colonialism: “It was gunpowder against arrows. Now it’s infrastructures, data infrastructures against us.

• “In the Western side of the world is more about efficiency and optimizing and speed and scale. That’s not really what we focus on here. We have systemic issues that we’re trying to deal with. We have wars that we’re trying to stop. So we’re not trying to scale anything here. We’re trying to fix a broken system. So how would AI be applied in our context?”

• “The DRC is the producer of over 70 % of global reserves when it comes to Colton and Cobalt. But yet I couldn’t get why would the people on the ground not even understand what is AI and how it affects us?”

• “WEIRD, which is Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic. That’s how the language of AI is built, right? In other words, it does not see anything else that’s not Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic. …

  You know, so for me is the language that built AI, the language on which AI is built, the language logic of AI just doesn’t see any other reality than the weird one. So how do I, how do we as people understand that we have agency to shift the language of AI, right? So we can address our needs.”

• “I hope that they open their minds to other realities that are not always reflected in their own context, that they always ask the question: who is left out of this conversation?”

• “I really wanted to be able to tell my kids, because I have children, one day if they do ask me, instead of complaining about this issue, what did you actually do about it? So that’s how I had to really first of all understand that I have a voice that can be heard, I have a part to play.”

  Full transcript and show notes

Highlights

• Jerry’s 1994 rejection of the word “consumer”
• Why trust is the missing link in AI
• What 28 years of continuous memory looks like
• Cyborgs, curiosity, and “Upkido” as everyday practice

Summary

In this conversation, Jerry Michalski—founder of the Relationship Economy eXpedition (REX) and curator of Jerry’s Brain—traces his path from tech analyst to trust-centric systems thinker.

He explains how rejecting the word consumer led him to explore the deeper social contracts shaping technology and work.

Together with Jax NiCarthaigh and Erik Sanner, Jerry unpacks what it really means to be cyborgs in practice (humans fused with software), why agency and culture matter more than any tool choice, and how reflection and intuition can keep us grounded as AI accelerates.

They discuss TheBrain (Jerry’s 28-year continuous-memory practice), the pressures of workplace automation, and practical ways to reclaim trust. The episode closes with Jerry’s invitation to “improve everything you touch” via Upkido, and to rethink constraints so we can re-humanize systems.

Takeaways

• Trust precedes technology: AI’s impact depends on the social contract between people—especially employer ↔ employee.

• Agency is non-negotiable: We’ve drifted from citizens to consumers; reclaiming agency is essential.

• Cyborgs are here (quietly): We already fuse with software (Excel, Photoshop, TheBrain); the question is how consciously we do it.

  Reflection + intuition are superpowers: They anchor learning and creativity amid rapid change.

  Find your “sense of up”: Grounding practices (Aikido, note-taking, journaling and “following the bubbles”) help orient us when everything shifts.

• 
  

  🔗 Links & Resources

  Featured

  🧠 Jerry’s Brain: https://bra.in/Jerry

  🌐 Jerry’s website (Speaking & Consulting): https://jerrymichalski.com

  🤝 Design from Trust: https://designfromtrust.com

  🧩 TheBrain software: https://www.thebrain.com

  🌈 TheJoyLine: https://thejoyline.com

  ⬆️ Upkido: https://upkido.com

  
  

  Referenced

  📘 Donella Meadows – “Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System”

  🌊 InnSæi – The Power of Intuition (Hrund Gunnsteinsdóttir, book & film)

  🧵 Quote by Joanna Maciejewska:
  “I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes.”

  💡 Ethan Mollick — Co-Intelligence: https://www.oneusefulthing.org

  🧠 DeepMind AlphaGo / AlphaZero: https://deepmind.google/discover/alphago/

  🧩 Kyle Shannon’s AI Salon: https://aisalon.ai

  🖼️ Gary Larson “Crisis Clinic” cartoon:
  https://store.gocomics.com/product/the-far-side-comic-art-print-crisis-clinic

  🪴 Karen Smiley – “AI, Software, & Wetware” Interview Series: https://sixpeas.substack.com/p/aisw-interviews
  

  🌀 PLANET Framework hub: https://planetcollab.substack.com

  
  

  
  

• “The consumer mass-marketing bargain involves a series of breaches of trust which we have normalized.”

• “Agency glowed bright fluorescent yellow for me — it’s what citizens have, not consumers.”

• “You’re already a cyborg. You’ve fused with some sort of software; the question is how consciously you do it.”

• “Things that don’t pass through your wetware — that don’t shake your neurons — you don’t know exist.”

• “Find something that gives you a sense of up — a way to orient when everything’s changing.”

• “If you can’t be hopeful, try curiosity.” — April Rinne (via Jerry)

• “How did we lose faith in humans? and how do we get it back?”

• On Upkido: “What would a practice look like where you improve everything you touch?”

• “We’ve consumerized everything. AI could actually liberate us from that trap — give us back a sense of agency.”

• “Curiosity is also the path to making friends with people who disagree with you.”

Karen Smiley, an AI leader and author, discusses her extensive background in AI and data strategy, her commitment to ethical AI, and the importance of amplifying underrepresented voices in the tech community. She shares insights on building the SheWrites AI community, the ethical implications of AI, and practical applications of technology in everyday life. Karen emphasizes the need for personal AI use policies and the importance of agency in navigating the evolving landscape of AI. Her upcoming book, ‘Everyday Ethical AI,’ aims to provide guidance for families and small businesses on using AI responsibly.

Takeaways

• Karen Smiley has over 30 years of experience in AI and engineering.

• She leads the SheWrites AI community to promote women and non-binary voices in AI.

• Ethical AI is crucial for ensuring diverse perspectives are heard.

• Karen’s podcast amplifies voices from underrepresented demographics in AI.

• The PLANET Framework helps people think responsibly about AI.

• AI can solve real-world problems without being overly complex.

• Personal AI use policies can help individuals navigate technology ethically.

• Community support is vital for emerging writers in the AI space.

• Karen’s upcoming book focuses on practical AI guidance for everyday people.

• The future of AI should prioritize ethical choices and individual agency.

• Everyday Ethical AI: A Guide For Families & Small Businesses

• “We shouldn’t give up our agency so easily.”

• “We need to have more ethical choices so that anybody could get the benefits of all these powerful tools without having to feel like they’re compromising their values. I’m not interested in shaming people for what they’re doing. I’m interested in finding ways that they can protect themselves and putting pressure on the companies to give us better ethical choices.”

• “We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors. We borrow it from our children.”

Featured

• 📖 Everyday Ethical AI: A Guide For Families & Small Businesses by Karen Smiley: mybook.to/everydayethicalai | Buy book

• 🌐 Karen Smiley’s site: everydayethicalai.com

• ✍️ Karen on Substack: Karen’s Substack

Communities

• 👩‍💻 SheWrites AI Directory & Community

• 🤝 AI Vanguard Society (Mighty Networks) – sponsored by Michael Spencer

Projects & Tools

• 🛰️ Keeper Space – space situational awareness startup

• 🗺️ Human–AI Boundary Map – by Daria Cupareanu

• 📰 Stack Digest tool – by Karen Spinner

People Mentioned

• Michael Spencer – AI Vanguard

• Suzi Travis – AI community writer

• Karolina Zieminski – “Karo (Product With Attitude)”

• Jing Hu - interviewed here on Karen’s 6 ‘P’s in AI Pods (AI6P)

Frameworks

• 🌍 PLANET Framework – People, Language, Agency, Need, Environment, Technique (more on this soon)

Other episodes

• 🎙️ PLANET Collab Podcast (on Spotify)

00:00 - Introduction to Ethical AI and Inclusion

00:46 - Karen Smiley’s Journey into AI

04:27 - Building Community and Amplifying Voices

08:05 - The Importance of Ethical AI

11:40 - Exploring the PLANET Framework

15:45 - Long-term Thinking and Future Implications

16:28 - The Realistic Benefits of AI

22:49 - Creating Personal AI Use Policies

25:04 - Staying Grounded in AI Advocacy

30:41 - Future Projects and Collaborative Efforts

32:27 - Everyday Ethical AI: A Practical Guide

Follow and subscribe for more at PLANETcollab at Substack

Internet technologist, entrepreneur, consultant and Silicon Valley veteran Peter Kaminski joins Jax NiCarthaigh and Erik Sanner for the inaugural episode of the PLANETcollab podcast. Pete shares an insiders view of emerging technologies from the early days of the Internet arcing through to today's exploding AI scene and beyond. We explore the significant intersection of AI, technology, and human collaboration, emphasizing the potential benefits of AI. This rich conversation highlights the importance of our language in AI interactions, the environmental impact of AI, and the need for thoughtful engagement as humanity navigates the future with technology.

https://peterkaminski.ai/

https://planetcollab.substack.com/