It was my great pleasure to sit down (virtually) with James Avery and talk about learning and making. And specifically about the huge project we both spend the majority of our time working on together: growing Kevel (formerly Adzerk), the company we both work for.

James is more than just an employee, though: he is the founder, and had a host of interesting things to say about the things he has learned and his approach to leadership. I have always been impressed with him, and after our conversation that is only more true. I hope you will enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed having it!

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This episode is also available on YouTube. View it there for a transcript and subtitles.

• Our guest, James Avery
• Dunbar’s Number, which I incorrectly described as a set of numbers.