Pops on Hops

In this long-awaited jukebox episode, Barry and Abigail are joined by Dr. Alinor “Lucky” Mezinord to dig into J. Cole’s 2014 Forest Hills Drive—an album Lucky considers one of the greatest of all time and one that deeply resonated with his own experience growing up. The group also rated two beers from Magic 13 Brewing Company in Miami, Florida: Islander and American Dream.

 The conversation quickly becomes much more than a discussion of hip-hop: it explores ambition, identity, family, community, race, success, and the choices that shape a life. Lucky explains why J. Cole’s conscious, story-driven style connected with him, particularly as someone who grew up reading and looking for a different path out of his community. Barry and Abigail are struck by the album’s unusually strong narrative structure. Rather than simply being a collection of songs, 2014 Forest Hills Drive follows an arc from J. Cole’s childhood and aspirations, through his emergence as a successful rapper, to his growing discomfort with the persona and lifestyle that accompany fame—and ultimately his return to his roots. The title itself becomes part of that story: 2014 Forest Hills Drive was the address of the home his mother lost to foreclosure, which Cole later purchased and repurposed as housing for single mothers in his community.

They then explore how songs such as “January 28th,” “Wet Dreamz,” “03’ Adolescence,” “A Tale of 2 Citiez,” and “Fire Squad” portray the competing pressures facing young people: the desire to escape poverty, the lure of money and status, limited opportunities, and the importance of supportive people who encourage you to pursue a different path.

 Lucky brings a particularly personal perspective to these themes, connecting the album to his own experiences growing up in Miami and eventually becoming a physician. The discussion also considers how seemingly small decisions accumulate over time—and how circumstances, family support, opportunity, and adversity can be just as important as individual choices.

As Cole achieves the success he dreamed about, the album’s tone changes. “Saint Tropez,” “G.O.M.D.,” and “No Role Modelz” become launching points for a discussion about what happens when ambition turns into ego and when success creates distance from the people and places that shaped you. Abigail also took the opportunity to share the sample from Berta, Berta by Branford Marsalis, highlighting the slavery imagery used in the music video for “G.O.M.D.”

The emotional heart of the album—and the episode—comes with “Hello” and “Apparently.” Barry sees “Hello” as a continuation of the story begun in “Wet Dreamz,” while Abigail and Lucky offer different interpretations of whether Cole ultimately chooses to return to the relationship represented in the song. “Apparently,” meanwhile, brings the story back to Cole’s mother, his childhood home, and the sacrifices and love that helped make his success possible. The hosts discuss how repeated lyrics gain new meaning as the album progresses, reinforcing their appreciation of Cole’s songwriting and sequencing.

The discussion closes with “Love Yourz” and the controversial “Note to Self.” The hosts debate whether “Love Yourz” offers an empowering message about appreciating what you have or risks sounding like a prescription for complacency. Abigail also enters “Love Yourz” into The Abigail Hummel School of Speaking Smartly About Music by comparing elements of the song to “Same Love” by Macklemore.

“Note to Self,” a lengthy spoken-word set of credits and thank-yous, produces perhaps the episode’s funniest disagreement: Barry wants to skip it, while Abigail and Lucky love the personality and behind-the-scenes glimpse it provides.

And, after nearly a year of waiting to record this episode, Lucky gets the honor of choosing the next jukebox album, “Criminal Minded” by Boogie Down Productions, submitted by Barry’s brother (and Abigail’s uncle) Derek Hummel.

Barry, Abigail, and special guest Jack Cornell discuss I’ve Got My Own Album to Do by Ron Wood and sample Magic Totem, Acres and Acres, and Motorik Marzen from Wye Hill Kitchen & Brewing in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Now-five-timer Jack has surprisingly never before joined us to discuss music he didn’t write! He previously shared original music on both of our Christmas bonus episodes, Bonus: Greet the Hummels! Original Songs by Friends of the Pod! and Bonus: A Christmas Day's Eve! Original Songs by Our Friends, and joined us to discuss his work on Bonus: Friendship Wins (Jack Cornell &Tripping Animals Brewing) and Bonus: Cornell Exchange Hops (The OAK Team and Oktoberfest Beers). Give his previous appearances some love; they are a lot of fun! Also check out Jack’s solo work and his work with Terry Anderson and the Olympic Ass Kickin Team.

The Wikipedia article for this album has a great summary of the fun story and impressive personnel list behind the album.

Barry suspected that Far East Man (written by Ron Wood and George Harrison) is about Pattie Boyd, Harrison’s wife and widely speculated to be the most written-about woman in rock ‘n’ roll (Abigail mentioned Layla by Derek and The Dominos as an example). Jack shared that Layla was also inspired by the Persian love story Layla and Majnun.

We played a bit of Freddie Scott’s version of Am I Grooving You

Abigail entered Sure the One You Need (written by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards) into the Abigail Hummel School of Speaking Smartly About Music with a comparison to Takin’ Care of Business by Bachman-Turner Overdrive. We reasoned that this similarity came from a “common musical ancestor”; Jack pitched Chuck Berry. Evidently, an early arrangement of Takin’ Care of Business strongly resembled The Beatles’ Paperback Writer, which was inspired by Chuck Berry’s Johnny B. Goode. Later, Keith Richards played in Berry’s band for two 1986 concerts in St. Louis that were recorded in the film Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll.

We closed with (I Wanna Be) The Drummer for the Gap Band from Terry Anderson and the Olympic Ass Kickin Team’s latest EP, Yeah Wooooo!

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

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Barry, Abigail, and special guest Nick Martino discuss Ozomatli by Ozomatli and sample Sole of the Sea (collaboration with Rockport Brewing Company in Rockport, Massachusetts), Drip, and girl, so confusing from Lost Shoe Brewing and Roasting Company in Marlborough, Massachusetts.

Nick is now a four-timer, having previously appeared on our second Christmas bonus episode, Bonus: A Christmas Day's Eve! Original Songs by Our Friends, and both of our live episodes: Bonus: LIVE from Stand Up! Pod Jam 2024: Pops on Hops Friend Exchange (New York Funk Exchange and Able Baker Brewing) and Bonus: LIVE from Stand Up! Pod Jam 2025: Neon Desert Challenge (the latter of which he also produced for us!). Give his previous appearances some love; they are a lot of fun!

Nick, in part, chose to assign us this album because of Abigail’s beef with He’s the DJ, I’m the Rapper by DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince as displayed in Jukebox: He’s the Drinker, We’re the Talkers (DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince and Evil Genius Beer Company). Coincidentally, this album reminded Abigail of a different Derek Hummel, Sr., Jukebox selection, Make Yourself by Incubus, as discussed in Jukebox: Make Your Flight (Incubus and Hell 'n Blazes Brewing Co.).

Both DJ Cut Chemist and MC Chali 2na left Ozomatli after this album because their other group, Jurassic 5, was blowing up.

We found a great blog with additional information about and clips of Nick’s favorite “trumpet battle” between Wynton Marsalis and Trombone Shorty at the House of Blues in New Orleans, Louisiana, in 2009. Evidently, trumpet battles have been going on for over 100 years!

Watch Chali 2na and New Orleans-based jazz band Naughty Professor perform Cut Chemist Suite live at the Culture Room in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, in 2018!

Oh look, more self-promotion! O Le Le names Edie Brickell, whom we have previously reviewed (see Using Honeybees for the Meads [Edie Brickell & New Bohemians and B. Nektar]). We could think of at least one other time an artist we reviewed explicitly names an artist we’d previously reviewed: Crash Test Dummies (see Pops Shuffled His Flight [Crash Test Dummies and Toll Road Brewing Company]) names David Bryne (see Byrned-Again [David Byrne and Lincoln & South Brewing Company]) in When I Go Out with Artists. These two latter albums are both among Abigail’s top five favorite albums we’ve ever reviewed, as revealed in our Pops on Hops Hot 100 Special!

Super Bowl Sundae contains a sample that sounds very similar to a sample previously discussed on the podcast: Hip Hop Dancer’s Theme by DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince samples Peter Piper by Run-D.M.C., which sampled Take Me to the Mardi Gras by Bob James.

Abigail plugged The Manifesto (feat. Trueno and Proof) off of Gorillaz’ recently released The Mountain, a song featuring both Indian influence and a Spanish-language rapper!

girl, so confusing was brewed with the 2026 Pink Boots hop blend from Yakima Chief Hops. Sales of this hop blend benefit the Pink Boots Society, which supports women and non-binary individuals in the fermented and alcoholic beverage industry!

Up next… I’ve Got My Own Album to Do by Ronnie Wood

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

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Barry, Abigail, and special guest Kim Nyborg discuss Fruitcakes by Jimmy Buffett and sample Sour Lemon Lime, Sour Cranberry, and Sour Cherry Pineapple from Edmund’s Oast Brewing Co. in Charleston, South Carolina.

Barry and Kim both have key memories involving Why Don’t We Get Drunk; it was the song that really made Barry understand the extent of Buffett’s influence in Florida, and it was the first song Kim ever remembers singing!

Abigail’s first memories of Jimmy Buffett were of The Parakeet Album - Songs of Jimmy Buffett, a collection of family-friendly Buffett songs sung by students at the W.O. Smith Music School in Nashville, Tennessee.

Abigail shouted out the backup singers in Jimmy’s Coral Reefer Band, known as the Reeferettes. Although Nicolette Larson was never an official member of the Coral Reefer Band, she appeared on three Buffett albums (including Fruitcakes!) and is considered an honorary Coral Reefer. We played a snippet of her most famous song, Lotta Love. We’ve previously spoken about Nicolette Larson in the context of her guest appearance in The Creature From the Tub from Andrew Gold's Halloween Howls: Fun and Scary Music; in fact, she and Gold were briefly engaged in the early 1980s, over a decade before the release of Halloween Howls! Listen to our review of Halloween Howls, Halloween Hops (Andrew Gold and Aardwolf Brewing).

Harpoon Brewery in Boston, Massachusetts, seems to have done the most collaborating with Dunkin’ Donuts over the years. However, Abigail’s claim of donut-chain-branded lube has been debunked by Snopes.

Buffett covered The Kinks’ Sunny Afternoon, which shares with Taxman by The Beatles and Exile on Main St. by The Rolling Stones a common theme in 60s and 70s British rock: the exorbitant taxes musicians faced in the UK, leading many to become “tax exiles.”

Buffett covered She’s Got You, originally written (as He’s Got You) by Hank Cochran and made famous by Patsy Cline. Buffett paid tribute to both versions by switching between different gendered pronouns throughout the song.

Up next… I’ve Got My Own Album to Do by Ronnie Wood

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group

Barry and Abigail discuss Touch by Eurythmics and sample Hawaiian Sling, Worms Don’t Have Bones, and Between Two Tides from Two Tides Brewing Co. in Savannah, Georgia.

We played a sample of So Good to Be Back Home Again by The Tourists, where Dave Stewart and Annie Lennox got their start.

Annie Lennox co-wrote Into the West for The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) and won the Oscar for it! Watch her Oscars performance of the song.

Abigail took a moment to plug Billbuds, a pop music podcast with strong opinions about fadeouts at the end of songs.

Barry compared Annie Lennox’s look to David Bowie’s, especially in the Let’s Dance music video.

Barry plugged the music video for Who’s That Girl?

Inspired by The First Cut, we went down a small rabbit hole exploring three different versions of The First Cut is the Deepest by Cat Stevens, Rod Stewart, and Sheryl Crow, respectively.

Aqua reminded Barry of the sensory deprivation tanks in Altered States (1980). (The music video for Take On Me by A-ha also nods to this film!)

Barry entered Paint a Rumour into the A.H.S.O.S.S.A.M. with a comparison to Popcorn by Hot Butter (featured in Hummel family home video Hot Balloon (2000)!).

Up next… Fruitcakes by Jimmy Buffett

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group

Abigail had the pleasure of joining our friend and frequent guest Matt Carlson on the podcast portion of his project, ⁠What Am I Making⁠, back on August 10, 2025.

Now 14-timer Matt is the undisputed king of the Pops on Hops multiple guest club. He is a talented musician and songwriter from East Lansing, Michigan, whom Barry met as part of an online community created by Pete Dominick, the host of the ⁠Stand Up With Pete Dominick⁠ podcast. During one of their weekly hangouts, Matt shared the name of his latest band, ⁠Harborcoat⁠. Barry caught the R.E.M. connection, which led to a ⁠Pops on Hops episode⁠ to discuss the album ⁠Joy is Elusive⁠. The outtakes alone from that conversation also led to a POH bonus episode⁠ to discuss Matt's top five R.E.M. albums. Matt has contributed songs to our Christmas bonus episodes in both ⁠2021⁠ and ⁠2022⁠, and he served as the beertender for our first live episode. Most recently, Matt and longtime collaborator Jeff Gower appeared on POH to talk about their 2018 album Ways to Hang On.

So, obviously, when Matt asked Abigail to participate in Six Questions with Matty C, she jumped at the chance! Enjoy!

Learn about Matty’s plans for 2026!

Up next… Touch by Eurythmics

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group

Barry had the pleasure of joining our friend and frequent guest Matt Carlson on the podcast portion of his project, ⁠What Am I Making⁠, back on May 25, 2025.

Now 13-timer Matt is the undisputed king of the Pops on Hops multiple guest club. He is a talented musician and songwriter from East Lansing, Michigan, whom Barry met as part of an online community created by Pete Dominick, the host of the ⁠Stand Up With Pete Dominick⁠ podcast. During one of their weekly hangouts, Matt shared the name of his latest band, ⁠Harborcoat⁠. Barry caught the R.E.M. connection, which led to a ⁠Pops on Hops episode⁠ to discuss the album ⁠Joy is Elusive⁠. The outtakes alone from that conversation also led to a POH bonus episode⁠ to discuss Matt's top five R.E.M. albums. Matt has contributed songs to our Christmas bonus episodes in both ⁠2021⁠ and ⁠2022⁠, and he served as the beertender for our first live episode. Most recently, Matt and longtime collaborator Jeff Gower appeared on POH to talk about their 2018 album Ways to Hang On.

So, obviously, when Matt asked Barry to be the debut guest for his brand-new format, Six Questions with Matty C, he jumped at the chance! You’ll get to hear Abigail’s answers to Matty’s six music questions in two weeks! Enjoy!

Learn about Matty’s plans for 2026!

Up next… Touch by Eurythmics

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group

Dear listeners, we come to you today with a short admin update. Abigail has officially been accepted to law school and will have a busy year, to say the least.

We plan to release six episodes in Season 6 - Touch by Eurythmics, 2014 Forest Hills Drive by J. Cole (submitted to our Virtual Jukebox by Alinor Mezinord), and four Phone-a-Friend episodes. We may throw in some ad hoc bonus content or experiment with some different formats along the way. Long story short, our release schedule will be erratic.

We will continue to re-share our backcatalog of episodes weekly on Substack, and Barry may share some essay-format brewery reviews there as well.

In the meantime, we now have an extensive backcatalog of 109 episodes and numerous bonus episodes. We hope you will revisit some of your old favorites, listen to an episode you haven’t heard before, or share us with a friend! We are excited for what 2026 will bring, and we hope you will come along on the ride with us.

Happy New Year, and we’ll see you… sometime!

Up next… Touch by Eurythmics

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group

Barry and Abigail discuss This Warm December and sample März of the Penguins, No Country For Old Penguins, and Midnight Waddle from Sneaky Penguin Brewing Company in Raleigh, North Carolina.

We briefly discussed Eggnogorant by friends of the pod Terry Anderson & The Olympic Ass-Kickin Team. You can listen to Eggnogorant in our first-ever Christmas bonus episode, Bonus: Greet the Hummels... and Friends! (Original Holiday Songs by Friends of the Podcast).

We acquired this beer while we were in Raleigh in October, when we had the opportunity to see Brandy Clark and Mary Chapin Carpenter in concert, featuring both friend of the pod Jon Carroll and the legendary Don Dixon in Carpenter’s band. See the setlist of the show we saw!

We played a sample of Stevie Wonder’s original Someday at Christmas, covered by Jack Johnson on this album. Barry mentioned that Wonder’s version should have made his personal Christmas music compilation - and he would probably remove Xmas at K-Mart by Root Boy Slim.

Bruce Springsteen’s live version of Santa Claus is Comin’ to Town is the definitive version in Barry’s eyes.

Barry plugged the recent Beer in Front episode 276 Fresh Wet Hopped Episode, where he learned about wet hopping, which uses freshly picked hops in the brew and is not the opposite of dry hopping - learn more here. The most famous and mass-produced wet-hopped beer is Celebration from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. Dave interviewed Bruz Beers and FlyteCo Brewing, both in Denver, Colorado, who collaborate annually on a wet-hopped beer called Hop Is My Co-Pilot. The brewing of this beer involves an airplane trip across the Rockies to collect freshly picked hops from Billy Goat Hop Farm in Montrose, Colorado. Read more about the incredible journey here!

Abigail and Barry both declared that Zee Avi’s No Christmas for Me is a modern Christmas Wrapping by The Waitresses (and that both of those songs are modern O. Henry stories).

Abigail mentioned that Stuck at the Airport by Money Mark is thematically similar to I’ll Be Home for Christmas by Bing Crosby. This is one of the songs Abigail will frequently be compelled to listen to when her life circumstances match the lyrics of the song - the other one is It’s Only Wednesday by Crash Kings.

The Man in the Santa Suit by Neil Halstead reminded Abigail of Father Christmas by The Kinks. We played a little sample of Matt Nathanson’s cover of Father Christmas, which appears on our 2022 Christmas playlist!

Abigail did not recognize that Rogue Wave’s Christmas was a cover of the Who song from Tommy. She compared the lyrics to Do They Know It’s Christmas? by Band Aid.

Barry compared Jack Johnson’s variant lyrics in Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer to many of the songs on the Straight No Chaser album we reviewed in last year’s Christmas episode, Christmas Beers (Straight No Chaser and Gifted Beers).

Abigail, per usual, got Silent Night confused with O Holy Night.

Listen to our 2025 Christmas playlist!

Up next… Touch by Eurythmics

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group

Barry, Abigail, and special guest Carlo “from Canada” Sgro discuss Carlo’s Phone-a-Friend selection, Version 2.0 by Garbage, and sample Carlo’s choice of three Canadian porters: Stranger Than Fiction from Collective Arts Brewing in Hamilton, Ontario; Clifford Porter from Clifford Brewing Co. in Hamilton, Ontario; and Vanilla Porter from Side Launch Brewing Company in Collingwood, Ontario.

Abigail always gets Collective Arts confused with Untitled Art in Waunakee, Wisconsin. Barry always gets it confused with Counterpart Brewing in Niagara Falls, Ontario.

Carlo told the story of Shirley Manson calling Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders to ask permission to use the lyrics “We were the talk of the town” in Special, since Manson had pulled those lyrics from The Pretenders’ Talk of the Town. Hynde agreed, and did not ask for any credit or royalties, before even having heard Special, and rumor had it she was flattered by the ask.

Hammering in My Head reminded Barry of Leave by R.E.M.

Barry heard elements of both The Munsters theme and The Beach Boys’ Don't Worry Baby in Push It. Unfortunately, he cannot claim credit at the AHSOSSAM for this find, as Garbage credited The Beach Boys for those lyrics and melody. Listen to our exploration of The Munsters Theme’s many different iterations in last year’s Halloween episode, New Belgium Halloween (New Wave Halloween & New Belgium Brewing)!

Listen to Carlo’s cleaning playlist!

The Trick Is To Keep Breathing reminded Barry of Try Not to Breathe by R.E.M. Listen to the fabulous Song Exploder episode on Try Not to Breathe!

Carlo was the only one to complete the resequencing homework assignment! Listen to Carlo's resequencing of Version 2.0!

Up next… This Warm December

Jingles are by our friend Pete Coe.

Visit Anosmia Awareness for more information on Barry’s condition.

Follow Barry or Abigail on Untappd to see what we’re drinking when we’re not on mic!

Leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

Facebook | Instagram | Bluesky | YouTube | Substack | Website | Email us | Virtual Jukebox | Beer Media Group