In this episode, Nick speaks with Dr. Susan Nicholas, who shares her journey of spiritual awakening and the crisis that led to it. She discusses the deep sadness and existential crisis she experienced and how she learned to transform and navigate those emotions. They get into the importance of recognizing and understanding the energy within us and how to transform it. Dr. Nicholas also highlights the need for awareness and the responsibility we have to make changes at a soul level. Listen in as the conversation explores the process of self-mastery and transformation and the importance of becoming aware of the deeper desires and needs of the soul, rather than following societal expectations.

What to listen for:

“I felt a visceral sadness that nothing could lift, a sadness so deep it hurt my soul.”

“We carry some burdens generationally, even ancestrally, in our DNA.”

“Our feelings are the language of the universe, and they will be felt, cycling through until we transform them.”

About Dr. Susan Nicholas

Susan Nicholas, MD, is a former surgeon and founder of the Human Consciousness Consortium. She is a six-time author of conscious books for adults and children, a quantum energy healer, a TEDx presenter, and an international speaker. Susan hosts the Be Conscious Podcast and the Money Consciousness Show. Her diverse works awaken humanity to consciousness.

Resources:

Check out these other episodes about our soul’s journey

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.543)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self -Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Dr. Susan Nicholas. Susan, how are doing today?

Susan Nicholas (00:14.187)
I’m doing well Nick, thank you for having me.

Nick McGowan (00:16.385)
Absolutely. I’m excited for you to be on. We were in that spot where were talking about a lot of different things we’d both said as podcast hosts, like, we should probably just record this thing. Don’t forget to hit record. I think there’s a whole lot that we’ll be able to get into. Obviously, you have a podcast and you’ve done your podcast for many years. I have mine and we both have touched on different topics. But before we go deeper into that, let’s take a little bit of a step back.

Tell us, what do do for a living? What’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Susan Nicholas (00:50.69)
Okay, well, I am a former physician. I trained as a surgeon, specifically in cardiothoracic surgery. But I had, guess what people would call a spiritual awakening. I call it a crisis awakening or an existential crisis of existence back in 2012. And at that time, I began leaving out of my body and really discovering

I guess who I really am. And in that process, I began writing an author of six books I write for adults and children. I host the podcast called the Be Conscious podcast. I’m also an energy healer. One of the things that I guess many people know if they’re familiar with my work, but wouldn’t be, you know, overly apparent is that I have the ability to move energy.

And that came about, that was awakened in me with my conscious awakening in 2012. So I’m also an energy healer. along with my, I guess, other work is I still dabble in healthcare consulting that pays the bills sometimes. And I’m the creator, I’m a content creator in the realm of human consciousness. And you and I spoke about it earlier, but I’m a…

creating a show called the Money Consciousness Show.

Nick McGowan (02:18.24)
So there is a lot to try to unpack just from that little bit of what you said. I think the thing that stood the most stood out the most to me was the crisis that you had gone through. That was kind of that pivotal moment or at least one of them it seems like throughout life that really shifted and changed you to where you’re at now. I think it’s interesting when those things happen because it’s not just like something happens and then immediately something else happens. There’s so many other layers and other things that go along with it.

Susan Nicholas (02:21.11)
Yes.

Susan Nicholas (02:39.468)
Yes.

Susan Nicholas (02:45.087)
You

Nick McGowan (02:47.795)
So give us some context. Let’s take a step back to that crisis.

Susan Nicholas (02:53.25)
So in 2012, I was the mother of a toddler. I had a two -year -old going on three years old. And I had left my medical career a handful of years before that in 2007. And between 2007 and the crisis awakening, I had changed careers. I moved to a different part of the country and I gave birth to my son. And I

believed at the time that those changes were necessary because I didn’t know what was happening to me. It took hindsight to show me that I had been on this awakening journey much longer than 2012. 2012 was kind of like the straw that breaks the camel’s back kind of moment. But this had been happening for many years. I just didn’t have any language for it. I just knew something

Nick McGowan (03:42.301)
Hmm.

Susan Nicholas (03:52.832)
wasn’t right inside of my bones, inside of my soul. And I’ll say this, Nick, I knew something had to change for me to go on living. That’s that when I say a existential crisis of existence, I didn’t believe I could go on living in this embodiment on this planet that we call Earth any longer unless I got this sorted, like whatever was happening inside of me.

And now, of course, it’s crystal clear that in the moment it feels, I would say, very defeating and painful, very painful. So I was in just like this tremendous amount of pain. And the way that I described it at the time was I felt that I was functionally depressed, meaning that I could

I could operate at a very high function. I could be a doctor or a surgeon. I ended up being an entrepreneur. I ended up, you know, founding a healthcare company. But when I was alone, I would, I was dying inside and I had this visceral kind of sadness that nothing could touch. So no matter what I accomplished,

The remodeled kitchen didn’t do it. The kid, know, the relationships, the Mercedes -Benz in the garage, the titles, degrees. I tried everything, I believed that, and I worked very hard trying everything to find this fulfillment in my soul, something that would lift the sadness or lift that grief that I was carrying that I could not put my finger on. felt that.

Nick McGowan (05:35.123)
Hmm.

Susan Nicholas (05:52.36)
I’m, let me put it this way. I had that feeling in me for so long. I didn’t know what it was to be without it. I don’t know when it started. I just, it’s, I always felt a certain way, which was.

like I had this undercurrent of sadness, no matter what the achievement, would come back down to that sadness. And I was at my end, like I literally thought I’ve done everything, I’ve tried everything and it’s still with me. And that sadness was so deep that it hurt my soul, like I was hurting and I did not know why. And so I believe that is what

was the tipping off point of my spiritual awakening. I got to the point where I thought I used to weep all the time. I would take a shower and I just start crying. I would lay down to bed at night and I would just… One night I just said, know, Nick, just said…

Susan Nicholas (07:02.038)
I want to go home and I did not know where home was or what it was, but it wasn’t here on the planet. And then I believe I was given a gift and I call it the gift of awareness where I kind of came out of my body and I saw that my life or my existence was more than what I was experiencing. in that, like lifting out like that coming out of myself,

Nick McGowan (07:14.931)
Hmph.

Susan Nicholas (07:29.504)
the saddened, like the saddest wasn’t there. Like I felt free. I felt free, you know, for the first time, like free of the burdens, free of the pain, free of the heaviness. And so naturally I wanted to stay out of myself. And I thought that this is what it must be like before you die.

You start getting glimpses of what it is to be free of this life. And so I was finally at peace. I was like, okay, I’m gonna go now. And that began what I call my spiritual awakening. Now that was 12 years ago now and I’m still here, but that’s where I was. That was, I would say, the time of the dark night of my soul, not wanting to exist any longer.

Nick McGowan (08:24.454)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (08:28.163)
One of the reasons why I really appreciate that you’re on this show and that we were talking beforehand are the things that you’re pointing out that are so true for most everybody. We talked a little bit about social media before and how it’s very surfacey and how it can trigger different people. It can trigger even if you feel super healthy in all the different ways, it can still trigger you in different ways because of jealousy and because of maybe I should do this, maybe I should do that.

I’ve noticed over 130 some odd episodes, kind of at this point, I think you’re 141 or something like that. there are different patterns that come from conversations with people and different things that people point out, but not even just on the podcast, just different conversations with people outside of that. think a lot of people are in similar spots and don’t know what to do.

They don’t know why they feel a sort of way that they do. They have no idea what it is. Some of it could be, I think a lot of it goes back to childhood trauma, the situations that happened as a child that just became a story and that’s how we live life at that point. I also believe that a lot of it has to do with our winning strategy of how we stay safe, how we stay away from that core wounding. Then there’s also just a deep, deep void that’s out there.

Susan Nicholas (09:24.619)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (09:52.621)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (09:52.729)
that I think some people can live in. Some people can like bounce around in. I like to get into the Enneagram as well. Are you familiar with the Enneagram?

Susan Nicholas (10:02.978)
Not really if you could share with me

Nick McGowan (10:04.449)
So personality test in a sense. There are different types of people. On the Enneagram, I’m a four. So I feel a lot. I have deep emotions. Fours and fives are really close to the void. And we can step in and outside of that void. My partner, she’s a four with a five wing, and she can live in the void. Like she can just stay down there for hours and days and years if left.

Susan Nicholas (10:29.623)
you

Nick McGowan (10:33.134)
you know, and then come back up. And I think that’s one of the things that you’ve experienced where there’s so much of that void that’s there and to understand that there’s a deep, just running river of sadness. I think a lot of people don’t really want to talk about that because like we talked about social media wise, yeah, it’s heavy, but it also makes them look a way that they don’t want to look. And I think there’s a balance to that, which is a reason why I really appreciate that we have the platform of podcasts from another host. You get that.

Susan Nicholas (10:36.085)
Mmm.

Susan Nicholas (10:45.13)
Yeah.

Susan Nicholas (10:49.506)
It’s heavy.

Susan Nicholas (11:01.397)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (11:02.587)
We can talk about these things. There’s that deep level of sadness. There’s the uncomfort. There’s also like sometimes you just got to fucking do shit you don’t want to do because you’re an adult. Here you are in this capitalist world and like all the different things that are going on. But that to be set aside is much different than this deep soul wound. And when your soul is telling you, we need to do something different. So let’s get a little practical with it. Here you are 12 years later. First off, I’m glad that you’re still here.

Susan Nicholas (11:22.624)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (11:32.954)
I think there are different people that listen to this show that are either Suicide survivors have tried and attempted or have thought about it. I’ve I’ve struggled with both of those different times and I’ve been open about that but that along with the sadness and with the Uncomfort of life and just not being sure of what do we do with life? How am I supposed to be? I think that’s really when you get into deep deep conversations with people that they open up and go

Susan Nicholas (11:33.484)
Thank you.

Nick McGowan (12:02.939)
All right, look, I’m not good. And here’s where I’m at right now. So yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s real. Most people aren’t. So looking back at that and seeing that there were things that happened and you can look back and say, well, know, hindsight being 20, 20, what are some of the practical pieces of advice would you give to somebody that’s literally in that spot right now where they’re like, something just doesn’t feel right. There’s just a deep sadness.

Susan Nicholas (12:07.06)
Right, right, right. And it’s okay not to be good.

Right, right.

Nick McGowan (12:32.443)
which is different than like you get over 40 or even 30 something and like you watch commercials and you start crying because you’re more emotional or whatever. That’s different than just having this deep sadness that comes up and oozes out of you. So what sort of advice would you give to somebody who’s going through that right now?

Susan Nicholas (12:39.532)
You

Susan Nicholas (12:51.67)
Well, that…

Susan Nicholas (12:57.25)
Let me, I’ll just share this first off. I actually did a podcast episode with a monk and we had a very deep conversation about suicidal ideation. So just want to address that because it’s important. I’ve experienced that for most of my life. The desire to not be here or not exist. And it’s been like a battle.

Okay, it’s been part of my journey. believe we carry some burdens generationally. And I’ll even go as far as to say ancestrally. I believe we carry it in our DNA. And one of the things that…

helped me was the idea that whatever is going on within you, like whatever that energy is, because it’s a vibration, like it is felt as what somebody caught a feeling and feelings at the very core energy. So whatever that energetic thread that you carry into this embodiment is not dissolved by taking yourself out of your embodiment.

that maybe in another lifetime that I don’t remember, maybe I did that because I can still feel it. can still, like there are things that don’t make sense in this life. Like I had this very deep seated fear homelessness. And I was like, but I’ve never spent a day unsheltered in this life. What is that? And so there likely was a time or an existence that I did experience that. And I call it a carryover.

Like it’s something that I came to this life still with that energy. And I believe we do that because in a past existence, didn’t, okay, we didn’t transform it. We didn’t overcome it. And when it comes to energy,

Nick McGowan (14:58.477)
Hmm.

Susan Nicholas (15:04.662)
We don’t apply the same laws of energy on the planet to ourselves as energetic beings. So the law of energy on the planet follows the very first law of thermodynamics, which is the law of conservation, which is energy is not created nor destroyed by us, but it can only be changed or transformed. And so if we carry a feeling, which at its very core is energy, it’s a vibration.

just like the feeling of love. It is felt. It’s a feeling within us. It’s very intangible, but we know when we feel it. And so the idea is every feeling has an energetic basis. And if there are feelings that do not feel good, or the feelings that are so heavy that it takes us out of living, out of the game of life, then I believe that feeling is beckoning.

to be transformed. You may have carried it for generations or lifetimes and be unaware of its longevity because we come into this life, I believe, with a severe case of amnesia of who we’ve been and what we’re here to do. And so…

Nick McGowan (16:04.27)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (16:19.02)
the

Susan Nicholas (16:25.954)
Let me say this, intellectualizing this doesn’t take that feeling away, right? But what it can do is to change your perspective on it. And if we can then, if we can say, wait a second, so this is energy and we know, we know we have some understanding through our, I believe these are universal laws, not just,

Nick McGowan (16:39.341)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (16:55.906)
third dimensional physical laws, but this is energy. This transcends time and space. So if we have an understanding of how energy works on the planet, then we can apply those same principles to ourselves. And so we can say, well, then if this is with me or this is within me, I love how you call it the void. I’ve talked, call it, there’s a saying in French called Le Pellet de Vides, the call of the void.

Nick McGowan (17:23.21)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (17:24.278)
And I talk about that in my first book called The Duality of Being. That when you feel like you’re in that space, that uncomfortable space, then what it’s asking is for you to bring awareness to it so you can ultimately transform it so you don’t have to live there. Or that’s not your base or set point that you could, you you could come off of your highs and lows up to a higher place.

And when I say a higher place, I’m talking about vibrationally, where you come to a higher place, it could be acceptance, could be gratitude, that’s a very high place to be. Vibrationally, you could come to a place of courage. You could come to a place of, I would say, like an observer, where you can simply observe, like observe that…

experience you’re having and say, well, this is interesting. Here this is again. What’s this about? And so when you get to that place, it’s a place of removing judgment. Right. So it’s not good or bad that I have this experience. It’s not in or out or up or down. It just is. This is a part of me. And the idea is, can it be a smaller and smaller

Nick McGowan (18:23.724)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (18:50.422)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (18:50.9)
and incrementally smaller to get to this fractal or this infinitesimal piece of you. Yes, it still exists. You can still have feelings of.

not wanting to be, but it’s more remote or it’s a smaller part of you. Just like, let’s say we all have the capacity to, let’s say kill somebody like out of rage, you know, or fear. But that’s not how we operate on a daily basis, right? It’s like, you may go through an entire lifetime and not kill anybody, but does that exist within you, the capacity? Of course it does. And so,

Nick McGowan (19:22.041)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (19:34.442)
It’s just given the right set of circumstances that that will come out. And so the same thing with this energy of the void or this energy of deep visceral sadness or this energy of suicidal ideation, what we call suicidal ideation. It can just become a very small or more remote piece of you. I don’t know that it ever goes away because

It could just be the right confluence of storms and circumstances where you say, you know what, it’s enough. Maybe it’s a terminal diagnosis and there’s nothing more that can be done. And you’re like, well, am I just gonna wait this out or am I just gonna let myself go now? So it still might be with you given the right circumstances, but it’s not where you live. It’s not the energy, your vibration day in and day out, right? And so that’s to me,

Nick McGowan (20:08.884)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (20:32.288)
what we don’t learn well, why we’re embodied on this planet. We learn a lot about the physical laws of the world and how to operate in our constructs, our money construct, our religious constructs, our social constructs, our gender constructs. We learn how to live on this planet from the prevailing laws and rules and I guess ethos, societal type of things, cultural things. But we don’t learn about

the energy of us. And in some cultures we downright reject it. We don’t even speak of the soul or the spirit. so thus we never learn about it. We never learn how to deal with it. We never learn how to interpret it. We never learn how to transform it. And so the basis of the work that I do now from 12 years ago when I’m trying to leave my body for good,

Nick McGowan (21:06.291)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (21:30.114)
permanently is now all of my work is to help humanity, to learn how to recognize these energies and ultimately how to transform it.

but all the things that don’t feel good.

Nick McGowan (21:55.465)
wondering where to start with this because even like with that with the things that don’t feel good, it’s like how emotions kind of just signals to let you know there’s something going on. I know for me, I’m a very emotional person. I’m very, I can be attached to those emotions, but I can also feel them intensely. And those signals in a sense, being intelligent about it, are just louder or brighter than they may be in somebody else.

Susan Nicholas (22:06.774)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (22:16.002)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (22:23.69)
But that also kind of stems back to other situations. You’d brought up generational trauma, historical trauma. I had a conversation with somebody recently where we’re talking about even regional trauma. I’m originally from the Northeast and I’ve joked with people my energy and the way that I am and how I get fucking hyped about things at times. I’m like, I blame Philly. And in some ways that’s not wrong because there’s a lot of regional and trauma.

that has come from those families that were there, the people that were there. You started to get into system issues. there are systemic problems that are family problems, educational problems, all these different things. I think if we take that and just kind of clump it all together, in some ways are often very just distracting. They’re just a distraction to us of something else that’s actually really going on something. It’s much deeper.

Susan Nicholas (22:51.33)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (23:18.771)
and for us to be able to work through those things. But you pointed out being aware of it. That’s one of the coolest things that I’ve noticed with the people I’ve talked to on the podcast, I can see the pattern of the different things that kind of makes sense. Like if you think like the word bubbles in a sense, awareness is the biggest one that’s there. Because if you’re not aware of something, how the fuck are you supposed to do anything? Yeah, you can’t. You have no idea. And it’s like one of those like duh moments where you’re like,

Susan Nicholas (23:19.314)
Yeah.

Susan Nicholas (23:38.454)
You cannot change it. Yeah, yeah.

Right, right.

Nick McGowan (23:45.918)
Duh, if I’m not aware of it, I can’t do anything with it. But once you’re aware of something, you then have the responsibility, the opportunity to be able to do something with it or not. Like as grown ass people at this point, you can go, I don’t want to do anything with this. Like somebody’s like, you have this major problem. It’s like stop drinking or stop doing this. Like, nope, don’t want to. And then you can kind of keep going down that path or you can make the change. At something deeper, like a soul level.

Susan Nicholas (23:48.214)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (23:57.214)
Right, right, right, right.

Susan Nicholas (24:07.702)
Right.

Nick McGowan (24:13.532)
where your soul is saying there has to be something there’s something different here and it’s trying to get your attention. I do believe that that’s part of where your purpose lives and where it resides, letting you know it’s here. In fact, even as you talk about it, I can tell that there have been a few times where you’re like, I have to hold the waterworks back because they want to just come out. But it feels different than what it was that you had said before, where the waterworks would come out because you were like, there’s just a deep pain where now it’s like

Susan Nicholas (24:24.37)
Absolutely.

Susan Nicholas (24:42.475)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (24:42.579)
There’s so much that can be done to be able to help people. And I want us to break this up a little bit because there are the things that we don’t know, that we’re unaware of that are stopping us. The generational traumas, the bullshit that have just been tradition. Like we don’t do that in this household or this is how we do with this family or this is what it should look like for a college grad to do or whatever those things are. That’s different, much different.

then what your soul is saying that there’s something that has to be changed or you’re going the wrong direction shift a little bit, but that awareness is crucial. So how does one then become aware if they know there’s something inside of them could just be like, I don’t feel right. It’s probably not just indigestion. Like it’s not because of the pizza you had or whatever. It’s like there’s something much deeper than that. But a lot of people will get into a spot where they go 20, 30, 40 years.

Susan Nicholas (25:14.953)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (25:28.407)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (25:39.717)
into a career, into a life, into relationships, they have kids, they have all these things, and then they go, well, I’m so far, I can’t go back, or I can’t do anything different, and they just live with that pain and that pit in their, let’s say, the stomach of their soul, in a sense, for the rest of their lives. I’ve had conversations with people where they’re like, fuck, what if everything I’ve done needs to change? I’m like, well, what if? And that can be easy for a third party to be like, yeah, you’re right, what if?

Susan Nicholas (25:54.112)
Mm -hmm.

Right?

Susan Nicholas (26:04.214)
No. Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (26:09.031)
But really from that perspective of that person, sounds like you were in that spot too, where you were like, I’ve got the Mercedes, I’ve got the family, I’ve got this, I’ve got that, and I’ve got all these different titles. That doesn’t actually bring fulfillment, especially if your soul is saying none of that shit fucking matters. What really matters is what’s deep inside here. So give us some tangible things for somebody that’s like literally listening right now going fuck you both, I hear you, but you don’t get it. You don’t get what I’m going through.

Susan Nicholas (26:25.057)
Matter, yeah.

Nick McGowan (26:38.384)
What advice would you give to somebody that’s actively trying to figure out how do I deal with this? How do I grip with it? How do I do something with it?

Susan Nicholas (26:38.55)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (26:48.716)
Well…

Susan Nicholas (26:52.054)
I believe it boils down to a choice. And you said it, you know, some people recognize that there’s something going on within them and they make the choice to, I would say, I call it like distract themselves, numb themselves, intoxicate themselves. And it just eats at them. Like they get ulcers, they’ve got tumors and cancers, you know, they have these crises of existence, heart attacks, you name it. You know, things building up only just to fall down.

like they cannot hold that vibration and everything falls down. So it’s just like these cycles of boom and bust. And they’ll do that. They’re cradle to grave. recognizing that they, they don’t believe that either they don’t have the tools, the willpower, the desire to change it. Some people would rather just take a bunch of pills and just keep doing what they’re doing because it tastes good or it looks good or whatever. it feels good. Even though that.

feel good may be fleeting and very temporary. And so the idea is.

First and foremost, not everyone that becomes aware will make the shift in this lifetime. Who knows? know, Nick, it seems like, you know, we’re in our middle age, perhaps in this lifetime, but who’s to say that it didn’t take us 10 lifetimes to come to this place where we say, we’re gonna do something about it. We could have been feeling this 10 lifetimes ago. And…

So some people may be embodied right now and they’re like we were 10 lifetimes ago. And so one thing about the universe is it’s infinite. let me put it this way, all paths, no matter how circuitous or long lead to eternity, Like however you’re gonna get there, you’re gonna get there. If it’s a hundred lifetimes, if it’s five lifetimes, whatever, you’re gonna get there.

Susan Nicholas (28:56.294)
I made a choice. This became so dire. This transformation, my awakening, I believe, came in this lifetime because I’m finally ready to do the work of it. To let go of this stuff. Let go of the titles. Let go of alcohol. Let go of numbing myself. To literally take this head on.

I’ve like, I used to say that me and the universe are like this going head to head because I was like, this is it. I’m not doing this anymore. It’s like I became the more spiritually enlightened I came, the more like of a toddler I became. was like, I’m out of here. I’m not doing this anymore. Fuck this. You know, like I’m out of here. And like me threatening the universe and I’m out of here, you know, and of course that sounds funny, but that’s, that’s who I was. Like I was like in a fight, like,

Nick McGowan (29:31.131)
the

Nick McGowan (29:39.942)
hehe

Nick McGowan (29:43.578)
Yeah.

Susan Nicholas (29:55.372)
I had an internal conflict. When I say the universe, I’m talking about the universe that’s within you. You know, that we are connected to that omnipotent source of life and existence. And we’re a part of it. You know, we’re all a part of it. And some will say we’re all connected. It’s kind of the, it’s the awareness of the oneness that we are connected. It doesn’t matter what you look like.

Nick McGowan (30:17.584)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (30:22.178)
or where you’re born, or what language you speak, or what you believe. It’s like we’re on a soul level, we’re all connected. And we’re the human, you know, we’re in a human form and we’re having, we have a collective consciousness and we’re all contributing to it. And so some of us have lived enough or fed up enough that we’re gonna make the change. And it is huge. It’s, I mean, it changes.

Everything changes what you believe, how you perceive your relationships, the work that you do, your thoughts, your vibration, your energy, it changes everything. And some people aren’t willing to give up some things to make the change. So you know what, no judgment. I’m sure there was a time that I wasn’t ready to give up or else I wouldn’t have it now.

Nick McGowan (31:13.892)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (31:21.494)
Let me tell you secret. think there’s a secret about our feelings that never gets talked about. And that is that our feelings, they’re meant to be felt. And that those feelings of ours, I believe, are the language of the universe. And our feelings will be felt, like we’ll cycle through the same old tired feelings, there’ll be all sorts of fancy triggers that the universe creates to raise up that feeling, to give you an opportunity, transform it. But what we end up doing is we numb ourselves and distract ourselves and harm ourselves and do all this stuff. So just so not to deal with this thing, you know? And so it keeps coming up again and again and again and again. And then finally you’re like, God, what the fuck? You get tired of it. You know, there’s gotta be a point when you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired. And then you’re open to ways to transform it. And it goes back to an old adage that when the student is ready, the teacher appears. So when you… when you say I’ve had enough, other higher possibilities, alternate possibilities begin to open up for you. But as long as you’re gonna keep on your old tired patterns and cycles, it’s kind of like the matrix. It’s like the blue pill and the red pill. It’s like when you decide to take the blue pill, is it the blue pill that takes you out of the matrix? The red one. Right, because if you don’t.

Nick McGowan (32:41.549)
Mm -hmm

Nick McGowan (32:52.752)
think it was the blue one.

Susan Nicholas (32:54.752)
Yeah, if you take the blue pill and you come out, you you’re like, you can never go back. Like, like once you come out and you see like the world as it’s designed to do, which is to, it’s designed to help you evolve and all these things, it’s a game. I believe it’s a game. And we take it real seriously because we have these, these bodies that are, that hurt, like, you know, that causes pain. And, but these bodies are, are unique in that

They’re the vehicle that allows us to transform energy. And the reason I say that is just imagine if we just came as spirit or energy or souls or whatever, we would just be like, we couldn’t create any of this stuff, right? You know, we would just be like the wind. And so we come into these embodiments as creators.

And these embodiments not only allow us to build things and create things and think and desire things and imagine, but these bodies also are vehicles for energy transformation. So it’s through this embodiment or having this embodiment that is the vehicle for the transformation. And so they’re not by, they’re by design. There’s no accidents here, you know, it’s by design. And so,

Nick McGowan (34:17.851)
the

Susan Nicholas (34:20.406)
You’re like, okay, so I got an embodiment. So this thread of ancient, like the thread that is me in the fabric of the universe can raise its vibration. some of us come to the point where like, okay, I’ve got this time on the planet, I’ve got this embodiment. I’m gonna transform the fuck out of this. I’m gonna do it. And it’s not easy to do it, but it’s like any skill.

The more you do it, the easier it becomes. The more you transform. And all of us are like a big blooming onion. We get the outer layers, the things that we can remember, things like, yeah, so and so said this, person, I got that person fired me, that person stole from me, that person betrayed me, that person broke my heart. Those are the outer layers, things that we can remember. Then we get to the stuff that we maybe had from.

we’re born with that we don’t have a corporal memory of, but maybe it did happen in this lifetime. Stuff from infancy, early childhood. And then get deeper layers to generational stuff. Where you’re like, this is part of a bigger story. And you talked about it already. There can be community trauma. There can be geographic regional trauma. There can be like whole societal traumas.

Nick McGowan (35:24.503)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (35:46.656)
And so then we get out into those layers. And then we get out into these like ancestral threads of times and civilizations that we don’t even recognize or we don’t even have names for. And that type of energy, those are broader cycles. Like I work with other energetic, I would guess spiritual leaders and

I have learned that I have been transforming energies eight, nine generations out where I won’t know or have any idea about it in this embodiment, but those threads are long and you won’t have any memory of it here. You won’t be able to put your finger on anything that started it or some infraction or something someone did or said, it will be like,

Nebula should be like, what is this? And it’s a much larger, grander cycle that you are now charged with transforming. And so what can happen in that space is you can become angry because you’re like, what the fuck? I didn’t do this. This isn’t me or I don’t know what this is or why me? Why am I?

And I tell you what, once you begin this process of transformation and elevating your own frequency, you are actually transforming energies forwards and backwards, not just for yourself anymore, not for your life, but for your children’s life, for your grandparents life, for your great grandchildren, your great grandparents. Like it keeps going out and out and out that you now stand as light, like as a beacon.

And what people will begin to, I’ll tell you when you know when you come to this place, is people will begin to ask you what you’re doing. They’ll notice something’s different about you. Like you may be the only person in your family or your community or your society. You don’t know, there’s no one else that is as, let’s just say enlightened as you. Or no one that…

Susan Nicholas (38:10.508)
has been able to overcome X, Y, Z thing, family thing, generational thing, traumatic thing. And so they’ll begin to ask you, what are you doing or what are you doing differently? And your mere presence will begin to help them to transform their own lives. They’ll just notice that they feel better when you’re around and people will be attracted to you. They’ll wanna be around you. Even like physically touching you or…

you know, holding on to you because you carry a higher energetic frequency and people are unconsciously attracted to you because you are carrying light, higher, higher vibrations of light. And so I think it’s when you get up to a bigger game. Yeah, the stakes are higher. It’s harder to do. But all those

previous trials, all the things that you were able to overcome, actually prepare you for it. Now there are some times, I’ll be honest, where you’re like, can I get a fricking breakthrough? know, like it’s, it feels like it’s too much. Well, I would say, you know, by the, by this time you’ve probably have some relationship with whatever you want to call it, guardian angels, guides, ascended man, masters, know, who, whoever, whatever you want to

Nick McGowan (39:20.198)
you

Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (39:37.846)
whatever name you wanna give to it, angels, whatever it is, you have some sort of connection with your higher self and that those higher realms of existence that you can begin to ask more directed questions and say, hey, this is a little bit too much right now. And ask for a reprieve because

Nick McGowan (40:00.352)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (40:07.522)
to those who have been given much, much is asked.

Susan Nicholas (40:17.374)
Once you take this on, then the idea is like, you might not know it, but your higher self knows that you can handle it. You might not feel like you can at times or that you can come through it, but actually you can. But sometimes it’s your mind and your psyche has to get on board with it. You know, that you can feel these frequencies and feel these energies or begin to see these very

like these big cosmic patterns that you realize you’re trying to break something that’s ancient, break through something that’s ancient. And those energies have been with you so long. They don’t want to let go, you know, there it’s like, cause those, those things that we don’t like, those lower frequency energies, they’re alive. You know, it’s like they, they, they are energy too. And

just because it’s an energy that you prefer not to deal with, it’s a living thing and it doesn’t want to let go. Especially when you’ve carried it for so very long.

Nick McGowan (41:31.051)
Sure. Not even knowing that you’re carrying some of that. Then you’re fighting something that’s been around much longer than you and has more strength in that sense. I do think it’s interesting how stuff compounds too, because you’ll make a decision and you’ll do something and go, okay, I can do that. Cool. And I can do a little bit more. Just like being a little kid, like you learn different things and you’re like, I shouldn’t put my hand on that thing that’s…

Susan Nicholas (41:35.65)
Exactly.

Susan Nicholas (41:41.982)
Mm -hmm. Yes.

Susan Nicholas (41:55.477)
Right, right.

Nick McGowan (41:59.271)
a foot taller than me and has flame shooting out of it. You’re like, now I know. So don’t touch the stove. Okay. Fair enough. but learning and compounding upon that and understanding how those pieces work as we get older and as we get deeper into all of this, we then look and see there’s much more connected than what really ever meets the eye that we need to be able to be aware of. And it can be really difficult to be able to work through that.

Susan Nicholas (42:03.265)
Right.

Nick McGowan (42:27.797)
but it can be even more difficult to even just get to the precipice of it, just to be at the door and be aware of it and go, here’s where I’m at. So with somebody that’s on their path towards self mastery, what sort of advice would you give to them as they’re working toward that?

Susan Nicholas (42:32.406)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (42:36.503)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (42:44.522)
Number one, that you’re never given more than you can handle. Even if it feels that way initially, you actually are not given more than you can handle. And there are ways to transform energy that is simple as focusing on your breath. One thing that I like to tell people is that there are many, many modalities for, I would say, higher awareness.

If you can just remember that as long as you’re embodied, you always have your breath. Then that’s to me that is just as like a foundational tool of how to transform energy. It’s by taking the focus off of here out of the mind, which is in service to the body, not good or bad, you know, just is. And then bringing that from here down to here, you know, into the chest and to the heart.

And the idea behind that is if I’m, let’s say I have a mental kerfuffle and it keeps going around traumatizing me, drama, trauma, and I don’t know how to get rid of it. One thing that I, because I recognize it’s energy, I’m not going to get rid of it anyway. I can avoid it and numb myself and intoxicate myself, but I’m not going to get rid of it. It’s going to come back. And so the idea is like, well, how do I…

transform it. And the easiest way to interrupt the thought is with a higher vibrational thought. And so if I’m having a thought, can interrupt it right there and just acknowledge it. Say, I hear you. Well, we’re not going there. Yeah, right. And then the way to interrupt this in us, would say a higher awareness or conscious way is through breathing. So if I

have a thought, it’s triggering me, it’s upsetting me, it’s harming me, literally, I can acknowledge it, and then I can begin to focus on my breathing. So I can narrow that thought to two words, like in, out, or one, two, in coordination with my breath. And in that process of interrupting the thought and narrowing my words and focusing on in and out, it brings it from here down into the chest, into the heart area, and you can begin to

Susan Nicholas (45:08.982)
feel that energy dissipating. Now we just talked about this can be a very long thread and there can be a lot of stuff that you’re bringing into this embodiment. And so it won’t be the last time that you get the trigger, right? But the idea is now you have a tool, you have a tool in your toolbox that you can bring it into the breath, bring it into the breath. Now then,

Nick McGowan (45:27.741)
Hehehe.

Susan Nicholas (45:37.824)
we get to larger orders of patterns and cycles, things that are ancient, that it’s not as easy to pinpoint or forgive or whatever we need to do. Then that’s when we can go into meditation, you learn how to, and you and I both know how powerful sound is. So go into sound frequencies, I recommend the sulfegio frequencies.

Nick McGowan (45:52.467)
Mm

Nick McGowan (46:03.4)
Hmm.

Susan Nicholas (46:03.714)
Those are the frequencies, the 528 -hertz frequency that resonates on the heart center, for example. Those frequencies are felt by the soul. And so…

Our music, the way that it is, is out of tune with harmony in our soul. So the idea is come back to some ancient frequencies and meditations that are based on those. I’ve created a few of those myself. And then when you need even a bit more, because it’s heavier and heavier stuff that you’re doing, you’re being asked to do more and more energy transformation, then we can look to energy healers, people that

Nick McGowan (46:40.05)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (46:45.259)
are able to channel very high frequency love, I call it the highest frequency love and light energy to help with that type of transformation. And then as you get more and more into your spiritual path, then your gifts begin to show up. And so it’s much easier to transform things or interpret things or comprehend things or bring awareness to things because as you’re doing this work,

your attunements are raising, believe literally at the level of your DNA, things are latent genes are being activated to assist you on this path. And so it is a process. I don’t believe that as long as we’re embodied, we’re ever finished. So you can have the most, what you would think is enlightened person, guru, whatever they call themselves, they still have stuff to do. They still have energy to transform. They have healers, right?

Nick McGowan (47:24.775)
Mm

Susan Nicholas (47:45.878)
And so it’s kind of like Oprah Winfrey has a success coach. It’s like, it doesn’t matter what high level you get, there’s still more. You’re doing it at a much higher level. And so it requires a little bit more, I would say assistance from whether they’re embodied beings or spiritual beings that are higher than where you are to assist you. And then it’s having enough

Nick McGowan (47:51.335)
Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (48:15.68)
I would say awareness to know when to call on them.

Nick McGowan (48:19.353)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, there are things you can do on your own and there are things that you absolutely need other people’s help with Yeah, and to be smart enough I guess you can intellectualize that enough to go. All right I can I can do this on my own, but I can’t do it all the way that I need I had a podcast guest I don’t know like a year or so ago that brought up that somebody said to him. It’s like well Michael Jordan has a coach Do you think you’re better than Michael Jordan? It’s like

Susan Nicholas (48:25.41)
You cannot.

Susan Nicholas (48:37.814)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (48:47.742)
Right, right, right.

Nick McGowan (48:47.897)
Solid point, you know, like not only do you need coaches, but you need other people to mentor and all of that. But as you get deeper and deeper and further into this stuff, the more that you actually want those things is what I found and what other people have shared with me too. It’s like you want to learn. And we also get to a point where, and I, you’ve brought this up really well done with bringing this up of how you get frustrated at times where it’s like, just can this be done? Can you give me the answer?

Susan Nicholas (48:54.368)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

Susan Nicholas (49:13.802)
Mm -hmm.

Right. Right, right.

Nick McGowan (49:17.169)
Can I just move through it? And you can still feel that, but you can also go, all right, I need help with this. Help me work with me through it, all of it. This has been great. There’s been a lot of stuff that we’ve gotten into. I’m sure we could probably even take several of the topics and expand them into three hour long conversations. There’s just a lot to it. But before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Susan Nicholas (49:24.052)
Mm -hmm. Right. Right.

Susan Nicholas (49:43.872)
Yes, you can find me at susannicolas .org. I’m the founder of the Human Consciousness Consortium. I have several books, of that stuff, podcasts, speaking type of reels, all that can be found at susannicolas .org. I also have a nonprofit that I work with with my father called One World Nonprofit Network. And we have an over -the -top media channel, an OTT platform.

And one of those channels is for my Be Conscious content. And so you can find that at the app store. We have an app called OWN, O -W -N -N. You can download that app and right now you can find Conscious content on there. And that’s also where my Money Consciousness show will be broadcast.

Nick McGowan (50:32.199)
It’s awesome. There’s so many different ways to be able to get the information, but just having the awareness to be able to start to get out there and ask those questions and seek out those different answers will help people kind of move through. I appreciate that you do what you do and you have the platforms that you have and that you keep pushing with that for what you feel called to do. Susan, it’s been awesome to have you on. I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

Susan Nicholas (50:56.652)
Thank you, Nick. It’s been a great pleasure.