This week, Ashley and Bailee continue their conversation about 9/11, getting into the attacks themselves and the enormous cultural impact they had on a generation of Americans. They talk about how September 11th changed the way Americans understood safety, terrorism, patriotism, and the world around them, and how the aftermath shaped American and Evangelical culture for years to come.

Together, they explore the War on Terror, Islamophobia, surveillance, and the ways 9/11 became woven into American politics, media, religion, and everyday life. They also dig into the evangelical response to the attacks and how growing up evangelical shaped the stories, fears, and beliefs they absorbed in a post-9/11 world.

References: 

Anti-Defamation League. (2023, February 21). The significance of the Oklahoma City bombing. https://www.adl.org/resources/news/significance-oklahoma-city-bombing

Avalon Project, Yale Law School. (n.d.). Military-industrial complex speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/eisenhower001.asp

Bar-Lev, A., & Chermayeff, M. (Directors). (2021). Turning Point: 9/11 and the war on terror [TV series]. Netflix.

Bill of Rights Institute. (n.d.). Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing. https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/timothy-mcveigh-and-the-oklahoma-city-bombing/

Britannica. (2026a, June 24). Military-industrial complex. https://www.britannica.com/topic/military-industrial-complex

Britannica. (2026b, July 17). Pat Buchanan. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Patrick-J-Buchanan

Common Dreams. (2025, November 19). "Trillion dollar war machine": Understanding US militarism and how to dismantle it. https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/trillion-dollar-us-war-machine

Council on Foreign Relations. (2021, August 31). How 9/11 reshaped foreign policy. https://www.cfr.org/articles/how-911-reshaped-foreign-policy

EBSCO Research Starters. (n.d.). Patrick "Pat" Joseph Buchanan. https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/biography/patrick-pat-joseph-buchanan

Federal Bureau of Investigation. (2022, May 10). Oklahoma City bombing. https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/oklahoma-city-bombing

Foreign Policy in Focus. (2013, May 8). Defense conversion. https://fpif.org/defense_conversion/

González, R. J. (2010). Militarizing culture: Essays on the warfare state. Left Coast Press.

In These Times. (2020, August 17). How pro sports became part of the U.S. military's war machine. https://inthesetimes.com/article/sports-military-patriotism-corporate-war-baseball-football-hockey

Miller Center. (2025, May 28). Oklahoma City bombing. https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/oklahoma-city-bombing

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. (2004). The 9/11 Commission report: Final report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. 

U.S. Government Printing Office. https://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Pew Research Center. (2023, November 8). The changing face of America's veteran population. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/08/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/

Political Research Associates. (1999, April 1). Clinton, conspiracism, and the continuing culture war: What is past is prologue. https://politicalresearch.org/1999/04/01/clinton-conspiracism-and-the-continuing-culture

U.S. Department of State Archive. (n.d.). 1989–2000: The post-Cold War era. https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/pcw/index.htm

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This week, Ashley and Bailee begin a two-part conversation about 9/11 and the American evangelical response to one of the most defining events of their generation. But before getting into what happened after September 11th, they take a step back to look at the political, historical, and social climate that led up to the attacks.

Together, they unpack the history of U.S. involvement in the Middle East, the legacy of the Cold War, the rise of Islamic extremism, American foreign policy, and the complicated relationship between the United States and the Middle East. They also dig into Osama bin Laden’s origin story and radicalization, and the events and ideologies that shaped his path toward becoming the leader of al-Qaeda.

They talk about what Americans understood about Islam and terrorism before 9/11, the cultural narratives that were already taking shape, and how all of this context shaped the way Americans would eventually understand the attacks.

References:

• Anti-Defamation League. (2023, February 21). The significance of the Oklahoma City bombing. https://www.adl.org/resources/news/significance-oklahoma-city-bombing
• Avalon Project, Yale Law School. (n.d.). Military-industrial complex speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/eisenhower001.asp
• Bar-Lev, A., & Chermayeff, M. (Directors). (2021). Turning Point: 9/11 and the war on terror [TV series]. Netflix.
• Bill of Rights Institute. (n.d.). Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing. https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/timothy-mcveigh-and-the-oklahoma-city-bombing/
• Britannica. (2026a, June 24). Military-industrial complex. https://www.britannica.com/topic/military-industrial-complex
• Britannica. (2026b, July 17). Pat Buchanan. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Patrick-J-Buchanan
• Common Dreams. (2025, November 19). "Trillion dollar war machine": Understanding US militarism and how to dismantle it. https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/trillion-dollar-us-war-machine
• Council on Foreign Relations. (2021, August 31). How 9/11 reshaped foreign policy. https://www.cfr.org/articles/how-911-reshaped-foreign-policy
• EBSCO Research Starters. (n.d.). Patrick "Pat" Joseph Buchanan. https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/biography/patrick-pat-joseph-buchanan
• Federal Bureau of Investigation. (2022, May 10). Oklahoma City bombing. https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/oklahoma-city-bombing
• Foreign Policy in Focus. (2013, May 8). Defense conversion. https://fpif.org/defense_conversion/
• González, R. J. (2010). Militarizing culture: Essays on the warfare state. Left Coast Press.
• In These Times. (2020, August 17). How pro sports became part of the U.S. military's war machine. https://inthesetimes.com/article/sports-military-patriotism-corporate-war-baseball-football-hockey
• Miller Center. (2025, May 28). Oklahoma City bombing. https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/oklahoma-city-bombing
• National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. (2004). The 9/11 Commission report: Final report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. U.S. Government Printing Office. https://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
• Pew Research Center. (2023, November 8). The changing face of America's veteran population. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/08/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/
• Political Research Associates. (1999, April 1). Clinton, conspiracism, and the continuing culture war: What is past is prologue. https://politicalresearch.org/1999/04/01/clinton-conspiracism-and-the-continuing-culture
• U.S. Department of State Archive. (n.d.). 1989–2000: The post-Cold War era. https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/pcw/index.htm

Connect with Us:
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This week, Ashley and Bailee continue their conversation with Mike Maeshiro – delving into what it’s like being LGBTQ+ in an evangelical world where your sexuality is treated as an affliction to overcome. Mike opens up about how being closeted made it nearly impossible to imagine a future for himself, and how pouring himself into ministry served as a distraction from his sexuality and from the possibility that God might actually accept him for who he is.

Together, they explore what happens when the promise of “deliverance” never comes, and how Mike’s experiences eventually led him to question the theology he once devoted his life to as well as the institutions upholding it. Along the way, they talk about the Bible, Jesus, having a Jezebel Spirit, and what dating men has honestly been like post-deconstruction and coming out.

Our Guest, Mike Maeshiro: 

Mike Maeshiro is the founder of Numa, an organization dedicated to supporting individuals recovering from religious toxicity, particularly within the LGBTQ+ community. A prominent voice in both the LGBTQ+ and deconstruction movements, Mike draws on his experiences as a gay man navigating his Christian upbringing and ministry to share profound insights about faith and identity.

As a former instructor at Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, known for his class "Discerning of Spirits," Mike now focuses on emotional health and redemptive deconstruction. He serves as a consultant and coach for gay men transitioning away from evangelicalism, leading a team of coaches who assist those whose faith is evolving.

In addition to his advocacy, Mike is a social media influencer and thought leader, emphasizing the transformative power of living authentically and reclaiming spirituality in affirming ways. 

“HUMANS MATTER MORE THAN THEOLOGY.” - MIKE MAESHIRO

Find More from Mike

• Numa: https://www.mikemaeshiro.com/
• Podcast: Confessions of a Reformer
  • Episodes Mentioned with Tyler Williamson on Spiritual Abuse: 
    • Part 1
    • Part 2
• Mike’s Coming Out Story on Youtube: God Wants Me To Be Gay - A Christian Pastor’s Coming Out Story
• Instagram: @mikemaeshiro
• Youtube: @mikemaeshiro3965

Connect with Us:
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🎵 TikTok: @praisebetopod
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This week Ashley and Bailee kick things off with the politics of expensive desk chairs, the two hours Bailee lost Uncle Marty, and her unexpected new love affair with baseball (much to Ashley's disapproval). Jacob weighs in with his signature distaste for Rotten Tomatoes ratings.

In our Part 1 interview with Mike Maeshiro, founder of Numa, we go back to the beginning. Mike opens up about knowing he was gay from a young age, and what it was like navigating that reality inside an evangelical world that offered him conversion therapy instead of acceptance. He walks us through his years at Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, teaching "Discerning of Spirits" and how that same season eventually planted the seeds for what would become Numa, the organization he now leads to help others recover from religious toxicity.

_____

Mike Maeshiro: 

Mike Maeshiro is the founder of Numa, an organization dedicated to supporting individuals recovering from religious toxicity, particularly within the LGBTQ+ community. A prominent voice in both the LGBTQ+ and deconstruction movements, Mike draws on his experiences as a gay man navigating his Christian upbringing and ministry to share profound insights about faith and identity.

As a former instructor at Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, known for his class "Discerning of Spirits," Mike now focuses on emotional health and redemptive deconstruction. He serves as a consultant and coach for gay men transitioning away from evangelicalism, leading a team of coaches who assist those whose faith is evolving.

In addition to his advocacy, Mike is a social media influencer and thought leader, emphasizing the transformative power of living authentically and reclaiming spirituality in affirming ways. 

“HUMANS MATTER MORE THAN THEOLOGY.” - MIKE MAESHIRO

Find More from Mike

• Numa: https://www.mikemaeshiro.com/
• Podcast: Confessions of a Reformer
• Mike’s Coming Out Story on Youtube: God Wants Me To Be Gay - A Christian Pastor’s Coming Out Story
• Instagram: @mikemaeshiro
• Youtube: @mikemaeshiro3965
• Episodes Mentioned with Tyler Williamson on Spiritual Abuse: 
  • Part 1
  • Part 2

Connect with Us:
📸 Instagram: @praisebetopod
🎵 TikTok: @praisebetopod
▶️ YouTube: @praisebetopod
💻 Web: www.praisebetopod.com
💸 Patreon: patreon.com/praisebetopod

This week Ashley and Bailee break down the Five Love Languages: where they actually came from (hint: it's more churchy than you think), why zero peer-reviewed studies back them up, and how a 1992 Christian Literature release somehow out-lasted Myers-Briggs as our go-to personality rubric. 

The author, Gary Chapman, was a Baptist marriage counselor with a Ph.D. in adult education. Somehow his little notebook became the defining relationship framework of the last three decades — and neither of us can figure out how "physical touch" ended up in every guy's Hinge bio.

We're talking origin story, slow-burn rise to fame, the actual science (or lack thereof), and a full Hall of Grievances.

Plus: what's on our hearts this week, our own love languages laid bare, and a few more thoughts of course.

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This week, join Ashley and Bailee for a full-length “What's on Your Heart?” episode. From our thoughts on Lindsey Graham to Ashley’s trip to Kenya to Minnesota’s abysmal air quality, we're spending the entire episode catching up on everything that's happened over the summer, sharing what's been on our minds (and hearts), and following every tangent that inevitably comes with it.

What we talk about:

• Bailee's move
• Ashley's trip to Kenya
• How Lindsay Graham’s Death brought self-reflection
• Our most embarrassing summer moments
• Marmot OnlyFans
• Reviewing The Odyssey
•      …And more!

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This week, Ashley and Bailee continue their conversation on heaven by exploring how the beliefs they inherited about the afterlife shaped the way they lived, loved, and understood the world around them.

Together, they reflect on how evangelical Christianity informed the way they imagined heaven, discussing how those beliefs influenced everything from fear and purpose to relationships, justice, and caring for the present world. They explore what (if anything) about belief in the afterlife they've found meaningful on the other side of deconstruction, and how reimagining heaven has transformed the way they think about what it means to live life in the present.

What we talk about:

• Bailee’s tornado chasing aspirations.
• Ashley finally saw Obsession.
• What we were taught about heaven.
• The surprising consequences of Evangelical afterlife theology.
• So what’s the deal with ghosts?

References: 

• Boyer, P. (1992). When time shall be no more: Prophecy belief in modern American culture. Harvard University Press.
• Collins, J. J. (2016). The apocalyptic imagination: An introduction to Jewish apocalyptic literature (3rd ed.). William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
• Dante Alighieri. (2003). The divine comedy: Paradiso (A. Mandelbaum, Trans.). Bantam Classics. (Original work published ca. 1321)
• Darby, J. N. (1974). The hopes of the church of God. Bible Truth Publishers. (Original work published in the 1830s–1840s)
• Ehrman, B. D. (2020). Heaven and hell: A history of the afterlife. Simon & Schuster.
• LaHaye, T., & Jenkins, J. B. (1995). Left behind. Tyndale House Publishers.
• Levenson, J. D. (2006). Resurrection and the restoration of Israel: The ultimate victory of the God of life. Yale University Press.
• McDannell, C., & Lang, B. (2001). Heaven: A history (2nd ed.). Yale University Press.
• Michelangelo Buonarroti. (1536–1541). The Last Judgment [Fresco]. Sistine Chapel, Vatican City.
• Russell, J. B. (1997). A history of heaven: The singing silence. Princeton University Press.
• Sandeen, E. R. (1970). The roots of fundamentalism: British and American millenarianism, 1800–1930. University of Chicago Press.
• Segal, A. F. (2004). Life after death: A history of the afterlife in Western religion. Doubleday.
• The Holy Bible, New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition. (2021). National Council of Churches.
• Wright, N. T. (2008). Surprised by hope: Rethinking heaven, the resurrection, and the mission of the church. HarperOne.

Connect with Us:
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This week, Ashley and Bailee kick off a two-part conversation exploring the origins of heaven and revisiting one of the foundational beliefs they were taught growing up in evangelical Christianity.

Together, they reflect on the version of heaven they inherited from the church, and explore how that picture was shaped by centuries of history, theology, and cultural influence. They discuss the historical evolution of beliefs about the afterlife, the surprising impact of Dante's Divine Comedy on modern Christian imagination, and what Jesus may have actually meant when he proclaimed that "the kingdom of heaven is at hand." 

What we talk about:

• War crimes
• Ashley visit to Azusa Street
• How “All Dogs Go to Heaven” saved Ashley’s life
• Origins of the Christian belief in heaven
• Dante’s influence on Heaven imagery
• What does “The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand” actually mean?

References: 

• Alighieri, D. (1308–1321). The Divine Comedy [Poem]. (R. Kirkpatrick, Trans.). Penguin Classics.
• Blue Letter Bible. (n.d.). H8064 – shamayim – Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV). https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h8064/kjv/wlc/0-1/
• Champlin, E. (2003). Nero. Harvard University Press.
• Christianity.com. (2023, February 24). Who are the four living creatures in Revelation? https://www.christianity.com/wiki/end-times/who-four-living-creatures-revelation.html
• DeMars, D. (2020, September 22). Who are the elders and living creatures in Revelation 4? Theology Pathfinder. https://derekdemars.com/2020/09/22/who-are-the-elders-and-living-creatures-in-revelation-4/
• Hebrew for Christians. (2026). Shamayim (שָׁמַיִם): How to say heaven in Hebrew. https://learnhebrewforchristians.com/hebrew-words/heaven-shamayim
• Jewish Virtual Library. (n.d.). Sadducees, Pharisees, and Essenes. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
• My Jewish Learning. (n.d.). Jewish views on the afterlife. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/afterlife/
• Religion Wiki. (n.d.). Heaven in Judaism: Shamayim. https://religion.fandom.com/wiki/Heaven_(Judaism)
• Walls, J. L. (2002). Heaven: The logic of eternal joy. Oxford University Press.
• Wright, N. T. (2008). Surprised by hope: Rethinking heaven, the resurrection, and the mission of the church. HarperOne.

Connect with Us:
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This week, Ashley and Bailee continue their conversation with their friend Scip as she reflects on growing up in 90s evangelical culture and her journey through deconstruction.

Together, they explore Scip’s upbringing in the Assembly of God church, her experience attending an evangelical Bible college, and the ways those environments shaped (and challenged) her faith. They unpack the unique culture and politics of evangelical higher education, revisit the unforgettable world of puppet teams and human video competitions, and reflect on what it means to untangle the traditions, beliefs, and communities that shaped you while finding your own way forward.

What we talk about:
- Special guest Katherine Scipioni
- The gatorade wars
- Being embarrassingly earnest
- Church skit human video competitions
- Going to a conservative Bible College
- Lying for fun
- Tricky timing with purity culture

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This week, Ashley and Bailee are joined by their friend Katherine Scipioni “Scip” to respond to a parishioner question about navigating family relationships when faith and identity collide.

Together, they discuss the pain of conditional acceptance, responding to a parishioner’s story about her conservative Christian family members choosing not to fully support her upcoming wedding to her fiancée. They explore how evangelical beliefs about marriage shape these responses, the role complementarian marriage can play in reinforcing harmful dynamics, and the complicated work of maintaining relationships with conservative family while honoring your own boundaries.

What we talk about: 

- Ronald Reagan therapy intervention
- We were given a Free Mason bible
- Boston Hagus
- Fake recipe rage bait
- Parishioner write-in
- Trying to reach people who are committed to misunderstanding you

Connect with Us:
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