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What if the key to property management success isn't adding more doors, but creating deeper relationships with the right clients? Tony Cline and Mark Brower challenge conventional wisdom about growth in property management with surprising mathematical insights about client retention and business value.

The traditional model of chasing door count at all costs often leads to what Mark calls "high-stress, low-touch relationships" built on manipulation rather than trust. Instead, these industry veterans advocate for a fundamentally different approach centered on maximizing value creation by "mining the diamonds under your feet" with existing clients.

Mark reveals a powerful mathematical revelation: adding just 10 doors monthly with a 10% churn rate (clients staying 10 years on average) creates a more sustainable 1,200-door business than adding 30 doors monthly with a 20% churn rate. This insight completely transforms how forward-thinking property managers should measure success—shifting focus from doors added to relationship depth and client lifetime value.

Tony reinforces this concept through his experience creating a specialized downtown loft and condo management business. By getting crystal clear about who he served, he commanded premium fees while confidently guiding clients with specialized knowledge. Both experts emphasize that this approach requires courage—having potentially transformational conversations with owners that invite them to "level up" rather than simply placating them.

Ready to transform your property management business by going deep instead of wide? Listen now to discover how to identify which clients belong in your "crockpot" versus your "blender," and why courage may be the most important skill in your business toolkit. Don't miss the upcoming episode where Mark reveals specific tools for identifying ideal clients and discusses the surprising ways ChatGPT is already changing our industry!

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Sometimes the most meaningful adventures arise when everything falls apart. This candid conversation between Tony and Mark reveals what happened when they led 25 property managers on what was supposed to be a carefully planned Grand Canyon rim-to-rim hike, only to face a cascade of unexpected challenges.

The adventure began with months of preparation as participants trained for what would be, for many, the most physically demanding challenge of their lives. Then came the curveballs: a critical trail closure forced a route change to a more difficult path with zero water sources; a power outage hit the North Rim; and just as their shuttle was arriving, their lodging reservations were suddenly canceled.

Rather than abandon the journey, the group demonstrated remarkable problem-solving skills that mirror what makes successful property managers. As Tony wisely noted, "Ultra running is more about problem solving than it is about running" – a philosophy that translates perfectly to property management. The group pivoted with creative solutions, including a midnight departure and innovative transportation arrangements.

What makes this story particularly compelling is how it transformed what could have been a disaster into a profound bonding experience. Through rain, challenging terrain, and unexpected detours, participants forged connections that transcended typical networking. The journey culminated with a spectacular double rainbow greeting them at the South Rim, nature's perfect symbol for the beauty that emerges after weathering a storm together.

This episode offers valuable lessons about adaptability, resilience, and the power of shared challenges to build meaningful relationships. As one participant reflected, it was "life-changing, not just for what we did, but for who we did it with." Tony hints at future adventure events, recognizing that sometimes the most valuable professional development happens outside the conference room when facing challenges together.

Have you ever found that your greatest professional insights came from unexpected challenges? Share your story with us and subscribe to catch our next adventure!

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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Have you ever found yourself working until 3 AM, drowning in property management tasks, wondering if there's a better way? That breaking point is exactly where our discussion begins as Mark shares his powerful story of hitting the wall and finally hiring his Director of Operations even when he couldn't afford it.

The breakthrough came with a counterintuitive discovery: "Every time I bought back my time, I magically found a way to create more value with that time and energy." This principle, highlighted in Dan Martell's book "Buy Back Your Time," reveals why smart property managers invest in high-level team members rather than continuing to handle everything themselves.

We dive deep into opportunity cost, the hidden enemy of most property management business owners. If you're capable of $100/hour work but spending your day on $20/hour tasks, you're not saving money rather you're losing $80/hour in potential value creation. This economic blindspot keeps countless property managers stuck in the self-employment trap rather than truly becoming business owners.

The most profound challenge, however, isn't logistical but psychological. Many property managers build their entire identity around being indispensable: "I'm the only one who can process rents... bring on new doors... coordinate maintenance." Tony shares his personal journey of building a brand as "the downtown guy" in Denver, and the identity crisis that followed when growth required rebranding and expansion. The uncomfortable truth? Detaching your self-worth from your specific role in the company is painful but absolutely necessary for freedom.

This identity attachment even prevents many owners from selling their businesses when the time is right. They get close to a transaction but back away because "they were selling their baby." The healthier perspective? Your business should serve you and fuel your personal goals—not define who you are.

Ready to stop being the bottleneck in your own company? Listen now to discover how to break free from the self-employment trap and build a property management business that works for you, not the other way around.

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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Why is it so hard to scale a property management company beyond a few hundred doors? In this episode of the Property Management Success Podcast, Mark Brower and Tony Cline go deep into the biggest obstacles holding property managers back from real growth—and why so many operators stay stuck at 200–500 units. From irrational landlord expectations to the dangers of one-off client exceptions, they break down the systemic reasons scaling is so elusive in this industry.

You’ll learn:

• Why low barriers to entry are actually hurting the PM industry
• The difference between creating options vs. exceptions for clients
• How to structure your team to grow without burning out
• Whether expanding to new markets makes sense—or if you should go deeper locally
• Why creating a wealth builder program might be smarter than you think

This conversation blends sharp insights with real-world experience from two leaders in the property management space. If you’re serious about scaling your PM business the right way, this episode is a must-listen.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and write a review!

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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What separates thriving property management companies from those merely surviving? According to recruiting expert Dylan Scroggins, it often comes down to how strategically they build their teams. 

Dylan draws a powerful distinction between simply hiring (a reactive process) and true recruiting (a proactive strategy). Too many property management entrepreneurs wait until they're drowning in work before scrambling to find help, only to hire someone who ends up drowning alongside them. The championship approach? Build your bench before you need it.

Through his work with industry leaders like Evernest (formerly GKHouses), Dylan has observed how the most successful property management companies maintain ongoing relationships with potential talent. They're constantly connecting with impressive professionals both inside and outside the industry who might become future team members. This proactive approach transforms how companies handle underperformance and creates the confidence to make necessary changes.

For property management companies approaching growth milestones (300, 500, or 1,000 doors), strategic role planning becomes crucial. Dylan cautions against common pitfalls like title inflation and instead advocates for an output-focused approach to defining positions. Rather than automatically creating director-level roles, smart companies first identify exactly what outcomes they need, then determine the most effective structure to achieve those results.

Perhaps most challenging for property management entrepreneurs is learning to let go. Many founders have built their identity around being the hero who solves every crisis. Yet as discussed, "Every time you solve a problem for your team that they could have solved themselves, you do damage." True leadership means defining clear policies, then stepping back to give your team the autonomy to develop their own processes and solutions.

The most compelling property management companies don't just offer jobs—they present meaningful challenges tied to an exciting vision. Beyond compensation, top talent seeks purpose and the opportunity to contribute to something significant. By clearly articulating both your company's trajectory and the meaningful impact of providing homes while building wealth for investors, you position your company to attract people who want to join your championship team.

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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Tony Cline explores the concept of building "pallbearer" relationships in business - the deep, meaningful connections that transcend typical networking and become life-changing bonds. We discuss how focusing on depth rather than breadth creates exponential growth and transformation in both personal and business relationships.

• The Bhutanese people think about death three times daily, normalizing it and making it part of life
• Creating meaningful connections means identifying who would "carry your casket" - the ultimate honor 
• Men in business often struggle with creating deep connections, causing us to suffer alone in silence
• Tony's experience with his ultramarathon pacer Scott demonstrates the evolution of a deep relationship
• Vulnerability is the key to building pallbearer-level relationships
• Meaningful transformation happens in one-to-one connections, not in large group settings
• Consider making a list of your potential "pallbearers" and intentionally deepen those relationships

If you got something valuable from today's episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, subscribe, and leave a review so you never miss future insights and strategies.

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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Have you ever wondered if you could successfully run a property management company from 2,000 miles away? Liz Cleyman has done exactly that, and she's just getting started.

Former NARPM President Liz Cleyman takes us on her remarkable journey from marketing professional to multi-state property management entrepreneur. Starting as a licensed real estate broker in Florida in 2012, Liz eventually relocated to Colorado while continuing to build her industry knowledge and connections. What makes her story truly fascinating is how she launched Blue Sail Property Management in Florida in 2021—operating it remotely from Colorado—and is now expanding with a new office in Denver.

Throughout our conversation, Liz shares wisdom from her extensive leadership experience within NARPM, revealing that most successful property managers operate with portfolios of just 100-150 doors. She distinguishes between courage and bravery in business decisions: "Bravery is charging into battle and not being afraid. Courage is feeling the fear and doing what must be done anyway."

For property managers looking to grow their businesses, Liz offers practical strategies that have proven successful across markets. She emphasizes the importance of building referral networks with realtors and neighboring property management companies, staying visible in your community through organizations like BNI and Chamber of Commerce, and positioning yourself as an expert on local legislation. Her insights on maintenance reserves, habitability laws, and building trust with owners provide actionable takeaways for property managers at any experience level.

Whether you're managing properties in one neighborhood or contemplating expansion across state lines, Liz's approach to relationship-building and risk management offers a blueprint for sustainable growth in the property management industry. Listen now to learn how courage, expertise, and strong networks can help you build a thriving property management business anywhere.

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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What happens when you narrow your focus from impacting many to serving just one? In this deeply personal episode, Tony Klein and Mark Brower reveal transformative insights about business, purpose, and life priorities that transcend property management.

Tony shares his recent experience at the grueling Cocodona 250-mile ultra race, where after completing 214 miles, a cardiac event forced him to make the difficult decision to withdraw. This challenging moment mirrors business decisions we all face—knowing when to push through versus when to step back. The value of having team members who will speak difficult truths becomes clear as Tony explains how his crew helped him make the right call when he couldn't see it himself.

Meanwhile, Mark unveils his journey from frustration to fulfillment through content creation. His newsletter, which began with just six subscribers and has grown to over 155, took off only after a profound shift in perspective—writing for specific individuals rather than trying to please everyone. This counterintuitive approach led to deeper connections and accelerated growth, demonstrating how focusing on "the one" can paradoxically help you reach many more.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when Mark discusses putting his businesses on pause for several weeks to help his neurodivergent son through a crisis. This poignant story highlights perhaps the most compelling reason to build systems and teams in your company: creating the freedom to be present when life calls you to focus on what truly matters.

Both hosts explore the concept of "imposter syndrome" from a fresh angle, suggesting that feeling like an impostor might actually signal growth rather than inadequacy. As Tony puts it, "If you're not experiencing imposter syndrome, you're probably coasting."

Whether you're managing properties or pursuing any entrepreneurial venture, this episode offers profound insights on building businesses that serve your life's purpose rather than consuming it. Listen for actionable wisdom on creating impact, finding meaning, and designing systems that provide true freedom.

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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What separates those who merely survive in business from those who truly thrive? Drawing from his experiences running 250-mile ultramarathons, Tony Cline reveals powerful mindset principles that apply directly to entrepreneurial success in property management.

The journey of an entrepreneur mirrors that of an ultrarunner in surprising ways. Both require extraordinary mental fortitude, strategic thinking, and the ability to overcome seemingly impossible challenges. Tony shares how he frames difficulties as valuable training opportunities rather than setbacks—whether it's running through unexpected blizzards or handling difficult clients and business emergencies.

Tony introduces the concept of "relentless forward progress" as a cornerstone philosophy. Just as ultrarunners continue moving toward the finish line regardless of pace, entrepreneurs must focus on consistent daily progress toward their goals, especially when challenges arise. He emphasizes the critical importance of fixing problems early, whether it's a pebble in your shoe at mile five or an underperforming team member causing workplace friction.

The distinction between setting goals and making true commitments emerges as a crucial difference between average and extraordinary performers. A goal is something you'd like to achieve, while a commitment means you'll do whatever it takes to succeed. This mindset shift transforms how you approach challenges and fuels persistence when obstacles inevitably appear.

Perhaps most compelling is Tony's reflection on his two greatest fears: dying with unrealized potential and waking up to find his best days behind him. These powerful motivators drive his approach to both ultrarunning and business, pushing him to constantly test limits rather than playing it safe.

Listen as Tony explains how these principles can help you develop extraordinary resilience, strategic thinking, and determination in your property management business. Follow Tony's progress in the Cocodona 250 race at https://www.aravaiparunning.com/cocodona2/, where you can track runners and watch the live stream of this incredible challenge.

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

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Standing at the start line of a 250-mile desert ultramarathon reveals profound truths about entrepreneurship, success, and human potential. As dawn breaks over the Arizona desert, I'm about to embark on the Cocodona 250—a journey that will push my body and mind to their limits while traversing 42,000 feet of elevation gain through some of America's most challenging terrain.

The relationship between extreme endurance events and business mastery isn't immediately obvious to most. Yet after completing multiple 200+ mile races and building successful companies, I've discovered that the mental frameworks required for both are remarkably similar. The fourteen principles I share in this episode—from finding your sustainable pace to reframing failure as a necessary component of success—apply equally to crossing finish lines and achieving business breakthroughs.

Perhaps the most counterintuitive insight comes from understanding that growth happens precisely when we're most uncomfortable. Those four inevitable moments in every ultra race when quitting seems rational mirror the breaking points entrepreneurs face when scaling their businesses. The difference between those who succeed and those who surrender comes down to mindset—seeing these moments as essential parts of the journey rather than indications you don't belong. Whether you're at mile 200 of a desert race or navigating a business transition, the principles of sustainable progress, community support, and embracing discomfort will determine your ultimate success. Follow my journey in the Cocodona 250 and discover how the lessons from the trail can transform your approach to business, relationships, and personal growth. Subscribe now to continue exploring the surprising connections between endurance athletics and entrepreneurial excellence.

Follow the race at https://www.aravaiparunning.com/cocodona2/

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.