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Shadow IT used to be a server in a closet. Today it is Linda from sales uploading confidential quotes to whatever AI tool she found first, and your corporate data leaving with it.
Jack Smith has spent more than 25 years in enterprise IT, across infrastructure, networks, datacenters, cloud and incident management, and he hosts the IT Horror Stories podcast. His argument is that AI is not a new problem, it is the latest version of an old one, and that the reflex to block it at the firewall has never worked and will not work now.
Aaron and Jack get into where AI genuinely helps, where it quietly does not, and the question of what happens when a system that gives a different answer every time is asked to make a decision that has to be the same every time.
Jack Smith has spent more than 25 years working in enterprise IT across infrastructure, networks, datacenters, cloud and incident management. He hosts IT Horror Stories, a weekly podcast about real-world IT incidents, what went wrong, how they were fixed, and what we can learn from them.
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
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A wireless engineer sat in a parking lot, connected to a plant's crane anti-collision network, and had everything he needed to stop the cranes inside 20 minutes. Nobody inside the fence ever knew he was there.
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow talks with Scott McNeil, Industrial Network and Security Architect II at Global Process Automation (GPA), about the part of the OT network most plants never look at: the airspace. Scott has spent more than 20 years in networking and wireless, the last ten of them entirely in OT, and he sits in the integrator's seat, working across every manufacturer's gear without a product to sell.
The conversation starts where most plants actually are: one flat network, off the shelf gear on the floor, and no budget. Scott's argument is that the low hanging fruit costs time and effort, not money, and that a stable network is the foundation for everything security asks for later: segmentation, inventory, monitoring, then a firewall between OT and IT. He walks through war driving your own plant, why a hidden SSID is not security, the wild west of industrial wireless protocols, wireless that was abandoned in power plants years ago and is still on the air, and where wireless earns its place.
The second half is about vendors and access. Do not take the vendor's word for it, ask the questions before the gear ships, and treat every third party connection as your own exposure. Scott's rule for remote access is simple: this is my house, vendors connect on my terms, every session logged, with an approve or deny button before anyone gets in. Aaron adds the zip tie in the fan story, a backup switch that had silently failed months earlier and nobody knew until monitoring went on, and the two close on shrinking the wireless footprint that leaves your site and on Scott's podcast, The Industrial Wi-Fi Shop.
Tune in to hear why your industrial airspace deserves the same design, monitoring, and ownership as any wired connection.
Scott McNeil is an Industrial Network and Security Architect II at Global Process Automation (GPA), where he helps manufacturers design, secure, and modernize the OT networks that keep critical processes running: architecture, IT/OT convergence, segmentation, resilient connectivity, and industrial wireless. A longtime wireless engineer, he created and co-hosts The Industrial WiFi Shop Podcast with Jeremy Baker, speaks regularly at OT and industrial cybersecurity events, holds a bachelor's degree in Industrial Technology from East Carolina University with multiple wireless and network certifications, and serves on the UNC Wilmington Cybersecurity Advisory Board.
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
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NIS2, the EU Cyber Resilience Act, and CIRCIA are converging between now and 2027, and for the first time the law is pushing cybersecurity requirements upstream into product design and supply chain. What does that actually change on the plant floor?
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow talks with Tobias Nitzsche, Head of Legislation and Technology for Cybersecurity at ABB Energy Industries, about the shift regulation is driving in OT: responsibility moving from the server rooms into the boardrooms, and from the operator to the manufacturer.
Tobias makes the case that what gets regulated are fundamentally the basics: risk assessment, asset inventory, cyber hygiene, and detection. The industry has preached these for a decade. Now the law demands them, which makes compliance the business case that finally unlocks long-overdue modernization budget. His advice: do not treat legislation as a paper exercise. Treat it as a utility.
The second half is about recovery, the foundation most plants skip. Aaron and Tobias dig into the vendor-install backup that has never been tested, recovery targets that ignore how long a plant really takes to come back, retain values operators tuned for years that live nowhere else, redundant controllers that are not cyber resilience, and vendor SLAs that send a system engineer when you needed a cyber expert. Tobias's practical pattern: keep a replica of your critical systems, restore into the bubble, and be as intrusive as you like there, scanners and all, without touching production.
Also in this one: NIS2 Article 20 and personal liability for executives, why a cyber incident does not need a nation state (bad firmware counts), where AI belongs in the Purdue model and where it does not, AI as the daily brief for the one-person water utility, Aaron's Exchange 5.5 story about the week the executives lost their email, borrowing the safety engineers' hazard studies as risk input, and why you should never fire up a wireless pineapple on an airplane.
Tune in to hear how the biggest regulatory wave in industrial cybersecurity history can become the budget unlock OT has been waiting for.
Tobias Nitzsche is Head of Legislation and Technology for Cybersecurity at ABB Energy Industries, where he translates the fast-moving regulatory landscape, including NIS2, the EU Cyber Resilience Act, and CIRCIA, into how products are designed and projects are delivered for critical infrastructure. Before this role he was ABB's Global Cyber Security Practice Lead, capping more than 20 years across IT and OT security. Having sat on both sides of the table, first delivering cybersecurity services to critical infrastructure operators and now shaping how legislation lands in engineering practice, he brings a combined view of policy, technology, and plant-floor reality that few in the industry carry. Tobias is based in Germany.
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
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Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
AI is a consensus engine, and consensus on the internet is frequently wrong. So what does that mean for the people defending power plants, water systems, and factories with it?
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow welcomes back Jori VanAntwerp, CEO and founder of EmberOT, for a completely unscripted conversation on AI in OT. Two practitioners who use AI aggressively every day make the case for restraint in exactly the places that matter.
Jori explains why human in the loop is non-negotiable: AI shapes a junior's output to look senior without the understanding underneath, so you have to be able to interrogate it. Aaron walks through his own sandbox discipline, where AI gets a folder and not the keys, and nothing goes in that he would not publish on the internet.
The conversation then turns to the OT reality behind AI-found vulnerabilities, why an attacker who can reach your HMI or PLC does not need your unpatched CVE, teaching AI your voice with markdown primers, the build-versus-buy MVP trap, the submarine principle for modular defense, and why an operator flipping to manual is still the save of last resort.
Underneath all of it is the workforce math nobody is doing on air: if one person plus AI does the work of five, nobody is training juniors, and no juniors today means no seniors in ten years. OT's aging-out workforce is the preview.
Tune in for the most honest AI conversation the show has had, from the people who actually run it in OT.
Jori VanAntwerp is a two-time cybersecurity founder and CEO who has spent over two decades helping industrial and IT/OT organizations reduce risk, strengthen compliance, and mature the way they defend critical infrastructure. He has held executive and leadership roles at McAfee, FireEye, CrowdStrike, Dragos, and Gravwell before stepping into the founder seat, first at SynSaber and now as the Founder and CEO at EmberOT. The result is a vantage point that runs from the boardroom to the packet capture, from silicon to the cloud. At EmberOT, he is focused on bringing visibility, security, and risk quantification to the critical infrastructure the rest of the world takes for granted.
Want to see what is really happening in your OT environment? EmberOT provides flow-first, passive OT visibility and threat detection without requiring proprietary hardware.
Learn more about EmberOT: https://emberot.com/
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
Get your tickets for CYBR.SEC.CON., a two-day cybersecurity conference, here: https://www.cybrseccon.com/
What started with 120 people and a homemade Word flyer has grown into a cybersecurity community of more than 3,000. So what does it take to build a community that can scale without losing its personal connection?
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Michael Farnum, CEO and co-founder of CYBR.SEC.Community, and Sam Van Ryder, co-founder and an OT sales expert, to explore the story behind the growth of CYBR.SEC.CON and the community surrounding it.
Michael and Sam share how they went from a grassroots cybersecurity gathering to a thriving community while keeping the relationships and sense of connection that made the event special in the first place.
The conversation goes beyond conferences. Aaron, Michael, and Sam discuss the challenges facing people trying to break into cybersecurity and OT, why entry-level opportunities can be difficult to find, and what experienced professionals can do to help develop the next generation of cyber defenders.
They also share their hands-on efforts to introduce young people to cybersecurity, including bringing 75 high school students into the community, with plans to reach 150.
From hiring and firing lessons to career advice, community building, and the future of OT cybersecurity, this episode offers practical insight for anyone looking to grow their career, build meaningful connections, or help strengthen the cybersecurity workforce.
CYBR.SEC.CON 2026 brings the cybersecurity community together again on September 15 and 16 at the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston, Texas.
If you're looking to connect with cybersecurity professionals, expand your network, learn from practitioners, discover career opportunities, and be part of a growing cyber community, CYBR.SEC.CON 2026 is an event worth checking out.
Tune in to hear the story behind CYBR.SEC.CON, the people building the community, and why the future of cybersecurity depends on bringing more people into the conversation.
Michael Farnum is the CEO and co-founder of CYBR.SEC.Community and has worked in IT and cybersecurity since 1994. He founded HOU.SEC.CON. in 2010, which evolved into CYBR.SEC.CON., now attracting more than 3,000 cybersecurity professionals annually. Michael is passionate about cybersecurity community building, workforce development, education, and career development, and is a frequent speaker and podcaster on security leadership and industry trends.
Sam Van Ryder is the CoFounder of CYBR.SEC.Community and Director of Strategic Accounts at Dragos. With more than 20 years of experience spanning mechanical engineering and technology sales, including over a decade focused on ICS and OT security, Sam brings deep industry expertise and a strong passion for cybersecurity community building. He is also a co-founder of HOU.SEC.CON., now CYBR.SEC.CON., which has grown into a major regional cybersecurity gathering.
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
AI has made it easier than ever to build a cybersecurity product. But has it also made it harder to build a valuable cybersecurity company?
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Ken Elefant, Founding Managing Director of the venture group at Sorenson Capital, for a candid conversation about what really makes cybersecurity startups succeed.
Ken shares a venture investor's perspective on the rapidly changing security market, including why simply wrapping a product around an LLM may not create lasting value, how AI is accelerating commoditization, and what founders need to do to build a meaningful competitive advantage.
The conversation goes beyond technology to explore the often-overlooked role of people, process, market positioning, and execution. Aaron and Ken discuss the importance of finding the right "wedge" into enterprise security, solving real customer problems, differentiating in crowded markets, and building companies that can create lasting value rather than chasing the latest technology trend.
They also draw on lessons from successful cybersecurity exits and the changing threat landscape to examine what investors are looking for as AI reshapes both cybersecurity products and the businesses behind them.
Key Learning:
Key Moments:
03:43 Using AI in podcasting
07:41 Trusting vendors and cybersecurity risks
10:59 Building Connections for Early Investments
15:19 Investing in emerging tech markets
17:45 Supporting AI-based startup growth
20:19 Building simple websites for businesses
26:03 Attracted to boring, overlooked markets
27:21 Building compliance products at Industrial Defender
30:16 Investing in defense tech startups
33:20 Experienced founders leveraging AI for products
38:32 Navigating fast-changing tech landscape
40:09 Importance of Building Trust in Business
Whether you're a cybersecurity founder, investor, security practitioner, technology leader, or entrepreneur, this episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at how experienced investors evaluate innovation in one of the fastest-moving areas of technology.
Tune in to hear what separates a promising cybersecurity idea from a company capable of creating lasting value.
DISCLAIMER : "Any portfolio companies mentioned in this episode are investments of Sorenson Capital funds and do not represent all fund investments. A complete list of investments is available upon request. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute an offer to sell or solicitation to buy securities."
About the guest :
Ken Elefant is a forward-thinking venture investor with a deep interest in how artificial intelligence is transforming society and business. Ken has focused on vertical applications of AI, like Jump.ai, a portfolio company that streamlines manual work for wealth managers. By backing companies that implement AI in targeted, thoughtful ways, Ken aims to help professionals become more efficient and better prepared, reflecting his belief that AI’s true value lies in practical, well-executed solutions.
How to connect Ken:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenelefant/
Kencrypted newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/kencrypted-7307431988703940608/
Sorenson team page: https://www.sorensoncapital.com/team/ken-elefant/
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
Offshore oil and gas operations don't have the luxury of simply shutting everything down and starting over.
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Josh Herr and Matt McLendon to explore the real-world challenges of modernizing cybersecurity and technology in offshore operational technology (OT) environments.
From million-dollar equipment and aging control systems to virtualization, containers, and edge computing, this conversation reveals what it actually takes to keep critical industrial operations running when technology fails, hardware is difficult to replace, and downtime can come at an enormous cost.
Aaron, Josh, and Matt share stories from the field, including the creative decisions operators sometimes have to make to keep one rig running when another goes down. They also explore the gradual shift from legacy Windows and Sun workstations toward Linux, containerization, and newer approaches to managing industrial systems.
But this isn't simply a conversation about replacing old technology with new technology. It's about understanding the realities of OT cybersecurity, where reliability, availability, safety, cost, and security all have to work together.
Key Learning:
Key Moments:
06:16 Frustrations with vendor costs and delays
09:34 Offshore connectivity and autonomy challenges
13:02 Managing power plants across Texas
16:19 Challenges with industrial HMIs and alarms
19:40 Vendor control and security policies
21:16 Component delays and industry characters
24:08 Final integration testing and safety factors
28:20 Vendor management challenges with outdated tech
34:02 Missing sysadmin skills in industry
35:59 Challenges with ARM architecture
41:09 Managing hardware life cycles
44:23 Concerns about AI and open source
45:43 Future of JavaScript and integration
Whether you work in oil and gas, industrial cybersecurity, critical infrastructure, engineering, or OT operations, this episode offers an honest look at the gap between cybersecurity theory and what actually works in the field.
Listen in for the war stories, lessons learned, and "art of the possible" approaches helping bring modern technology into some of the world's most challenging OT environments.
About the guests:
Matt is a multidisciplinary team leader and technology practitioner with experience spanning electrical systems, controls, automation, data systems, and IS/IT. His background includes offshore oil and gas electronics, systems administration, and computer hardware, with a strong emphasis on troubleshooting and component-level repair. Matt has led diverse technical teams in fast-paced, mission-critical environments, where collaboration, clarity, and effective problem-solving are essential.
Contact Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewamclendon/
Josh is a software engineer and technology architect with more than a decade of experience designing and building systems across desktop applications, cloud infrastructure, and modern cybersecurity environments. His background spans multiple technology verticals and industries, giving him a practical, cross-functional perspective on how organizations secure complex systems at every layer of the technology stack. Josh brings deep expertise in software engineering, cloud architecture, and cybersecurity strategy, with a focus on helping organizations navigate evolving security challenges without sacrificing operational performance. His work combines hands-on technical knowledge with a strong understanding of how security, infrastructure, and business priorities intersect in real-world environments.
Contact Josh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-herr-ba4bba54/
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
AI agents are becoming more autonomous - but are they becoming more secure?
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow welcomes David Girvin for a timely discussion about one of the fastest-growing challenges in cybersecurity: AI agent security and governance.
From an unconventional career as a ship captain to building one of the first governance platforms for AI agents, David shares why organizations must begin treating AI agents as powerful digital coworkers with permissions, identities, and risks that require the same level of oversight as human employees.
Together, Aaron and David explore how autonomous AI systems can unintentionally create business risk, why credential starvation, execution-layer security, and human-in-the-loop controls are becoming essential, and how organizations can safely adopt AI without sacrificing security.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Key Moments:
05:31 Career paths and diverse experiences
06:24 Startup experiences and mentoring journey
09:30 Exploring a career shift to marketing
15:30 Building a Successful Career
18:20 Governance and AI risks
19:24 Early AI research and presentation
23:19 Just-in-time tokens discussion
27:52 Balancing work, family, and startup challenges
30:48 Transitioning from Operations to Events
35:18 Industry friendships and shared experiences
36:04 Work stress and job challenges
39:49 Securing AI systems and LLM inputs
43:46 Developing AI observability tools
47:56 Managing session risk and autonomy levels
51:14 Security and file management controls
55:34 Cybersecurity awareness chat
Whether you're building AI applications, leading cybersecurity programs, or simply exploring how AI will change your business, this episode offers practical insights into securing the next generation of intelligent systems.
Tune in to learn how organizations can embrace AI innovation while keeping people, data, and critical systems protected.
About the guest :
David Girvin is a cybersecurity leader, security architect, and Founder & CEO of Assury.ai, where he is building execution-level governance for AI agents. With leadership experience at companies including 1Password, Red Canary, and Sumo Logic, David has spent his career helping organizations strengthen security, architecture, and AI strategy. He specializes in making complex cybersecurity and AI concepts practical and accessible, helping businesses adopt emerging technologies securely and responsibly.
Links to connect David:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-a-girvin/
Website: https://assury.ai
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
AI is changing cybersecurity at an incredible pace. But are organizations prepared for the risks that come with it?
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Brian Schleifer, an industry veteran with decades of experience spanning the military, technology, consulting, defense, and critical infrastructure.
Aaron and Brian explore what it really takes to adopt AI responsibly across IT and OT cybersecurity. Beyond the technology itself, they examine the human side of security, including communication, collaboration, accountability, and the skills needed to make new technologies work in the real world.
The conversation also tackles the growing challenges of AI governance, shadow AI, continuous monitoring, and cyber-physical resilience. Rather than treating AI as a magic solution, Brian offers a practical perspective on how organizations can be intentional about where and how they use AI while preparing for the disruptions it may create.
Key Learnings:
Key Moments:
05:22 Working in tech and cybersecurity
07:23 Importance of people skills in business
10:20 Importance of Listening First
14:31 Implementing Machine Learning Thoughtfully
16:44 Importance of Human Oversight in AI
20:21 Discussing security and human accountability
24:24 Publishing a book with AI tools
27:47 Future of computing technology
31:39 Focusing on disaster recovery strategies
35:27 Budgeting Challenges with Emerging Tech
38:00 Focus on proactive security planning
40:40 Evaluating cybersecurity effectiveness
45:49 Challenges in incident response logistics
47:33 Talking about Security Week events
Whether you're a cybersecurity leader, OT professional, technology executive, or simply trying to understand what AI means for the future of security, this episode offers practical perspectives on navigating the change without losing sight of what matters most.
Listen to the latest episode of Protect It All and discover how organizations can embrace AI while building the trust, accountability, and resilience needed to protect what matters.
About the Guest :
Brian "SchleiF" Schleifer is a retired United States Air Force veteran, cybersecurity professional, content leader, and owner of PAVE Consulting LLC, which provides digital content creation and cybersecurity consulting. Through PAVE Consulting, he currently supports SecurityWeek as Director of Content and Events, helping lead conferences, podcasts, webinars, and executive-level cybersecurity programming. Brian previously served in senior cybersecurity engineering and leadership roles at Modern Technology Solutions Inc. His experience includes cyber-physical and weapon systems security, security control assessment, cyber testing, risk management, and AI governance. He is pursuing a Doctor of Technology at Purdue University, where his research focuses on adaptive cybersecurity policy for AI-enabled systems. He is also the creator of the Adaptive Artificial Intelligence Risk and Assurance Framework, or AAIRAF. With more than 10,000 hours of public speaking, instruction, and panel moderation experience, Brian is known for making complex cybersecurity, technology, and risk topics practical and accessible.
Important links to connect Brian:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-schleifer/
SecurityWeek: https://www.securityweek.com/
SecurityWeek TV: https://www.youtube.com/@SecurityWeek-TV
PAVE YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@P.A.V.E.
AI Risk Summit: https://www.airisksummit.com/
ICS Cyber Conference: https://www.icscybersecurityconference.com/
PAVE email: [email protected]
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
Effective OT penetration testing isn't just about finding vulnerabilities, it's about building trust.
In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow is joined by Oren Niskin and Reynaldo Gonzalez for an engaging discussion on the evolving role of penetration testing in operational technology (OT) environments.
Drawing from years of experience in industrial operations, IT, and OT cybersecurity, Oren and Reynaldo explain why successful OT security assessments require far more than technical expertise. They explore how trust, communication, and collaboration help bridge the gap between security teams and operations, making penetration testing a valuable business tool rather than something to fear.
The conversation also highlights the importance of diverse career paths, hands-on learning, and mentoring the next generation of cybersecurity professionals. From network segmentation and risk communication to creating realistic lab environments, this episode offers practical lessons for anyone responsible for securing critical infrastructure.
Key Learnings:
Key Moments:
07:00 Oren's technology and security approach
15:04 Discussing network security measures
19:16 Building Trust in Business Relationships
26:17 Understanding and planning security architecture
30:16 Network management and rule assessment
33:39 Managing and Assessing Tool Overload
38:39 Analyzing tool overlap and complementarity
48:41 Building a trusting team culture
49:48 Encouraging Open Communication
56:34 Getting into cybersecurity without IT experience
01:04:56 Entry-level ICS training courses
Whether you're an OT engineer, penetration tester, security leader, or just beginning your cybersecurity journey, this episode delivers practical insights into protecting industrial environments while building stronger relationships across teams.
Tune in to discover why the most successful OT penetration tests don't just identify vulnerabilities they build trust, strengthen teams, and improve security for the long term.
About the guests:
Oren Niskin is Principal OT Security Engineer at GuidePoint Security. His 20-year arc runs from the US Navy as a Nuclear Electrician's Mate, to Electronics Technician on offshore drilling rigs, to office OT/IT management, to OT cybersecurity consulting at EY, and now into OT cyber engineering at GuidePoint. He also runs Packets Or It Didn't Happen, a YouTube livestream where he builds a factory-realistic PLC and HMI training kit on camera (the open-source PLC Trainer Kit), aimed at helping newcomers get hands-on with OT for under $500.
Link to connect Oren Niskin:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/orenniskin/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PacketsOrItDidntHappen
PLC Trainer Kit (GitHub): https://github.com/oniskin/PLC-Trainer-Kit
LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/17708001/
Reynaldo Gonzalez is a recognized cybersecurity thought leader with 18+ years of experience helping organizations strengthen cyber resilience and secure critical infrastructure. His expertise spans cybersecurity strategy, IT/OT security, AI security, risk management, and digital transformation, complemented by a passion for education, innovation, and industry collaboration.
Link to connect Reynaldo Gonzalez:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reynaldoglz/
Learn more about PrOTect IT All:
Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/
To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].
Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:
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