PrOTect It All

PrOTect It All

By Aaron Crow | Operational Technology & Cybersecurity HostBusinessTechnologyEducation
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PrOTect It All episodes

  • AI Is the New Shadow IT: Why Blocking It Never Worked with Jack Smith

    Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

    The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
    This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep126/
    The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

    Shadow IT used to be a server in a closet. Today it is Linda from sales uploading confidential quotes to whatever AI tool she found first, and your corporate data leaving with it.

    Jack Smith has spent more than 25 years in enterprise IT, across infrastructure, networks, datacenters, cloud and incident management, and he hosts the IT Horror Stories podcast. His argument is that AI is not a new problem, it is the latest version of an old one, and that the reflex to block it at the firewall has never worked and will not work now.

    Aaron and Jack get into where AI genuinely helps, where it quietly does not, and the question of what happens when a system that gives a different answer every time is asked to make a decision that has to be the same every time.

    What you will take away
    • Why blocking AI tools fails the same way blocking USB sticks and webmail failed
    • The difference between a tool that optimises your work and a tool you hand your work to
    • Why analytics and diagnosis are the strong case for AI, and treatment is not
    • The training gap: staff get GDPR training and security training, and no AI training at all
    • A one question test anyone can apply before pasting company data anywhere
    • In this episode
      • 1:19 Twenty five years, from floppy disks to AI
      • 10:45 Shadow IT used to be a box in a closet
      • 12:31 Why blocking it never works
      • 19:53 You cannot throw people in the deep end
      • 21:48 When a wrong answer can kill someone
      • 25:40 The answer everybody hates: training
      • 27:54 Never give AI your production environment
      • 41:20 Ask who owns your AI policy
      • 44:38 Who actually gets rich
      • 47:08 The Times Square test
      • About the guest

        Jack Smith has spent more than 25 years working in enterprise IT across infrastructure, networks, datacenters, cloud and incident management. He hosts IT Horror Stories, a weekly podcast about real-world IT incidents, what went wrong, how they were fixed, and what we can learn from them.

        • IT Horror Stories podcast: https://ithorrorstories.eu/
        • "AI Is The New Shadow IT": https://ithorrorstories.eu/#rant07
        • Jack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/franky/
        • Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

          Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

          The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
          This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep126/
          The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
          YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
          X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
          Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

          To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

          Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

          Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
          Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

          57 min
        • Own Your Industrial Airspace: Wireless, Vendors, and the Parking Lot Crane Hack with Scott McNeil

          Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

          The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
          This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep125/
          The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

          A wireless engineer sat in a parking lot, connected to a plant's crane anti-collision network, and had everything he needed to stop the cranes inside 20 minutes. Nobody inside the fence ever knew he was there.

          In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow talks with Scott McNeil, Industrial Network and Security Architect II at Global Process Automation (GPA), about the part of the OT network most plants never look at: the airspace. Scott has spent more than 20 years in networking and wireless, the last ten of them entirely in OT, and he sits in the integrator's seat, working across every manufacturer's gear without a product to sell.

          The conversation starts where most plants actually are: one flat network, off the shelf gear on the floor, and no budget. Scott's argument is that the low hanging fruit costs time and effort, not money, and that a stable network is the foundation for everything security asks for later: segmentation, inventory, monitoring, then a firewall between OT and IT. He walks through war driving your own plant, why a hidden SSID is not security, the wild west of industrial wireless protocols, wireless that was abandoned in power plants years ago and is still on the air, and where wireless earns its place.

          The second half is about vendors and access. Do not take the vendor's word for it, ask the questions before the gear ships, and treat every third party connection as your own exposure. Scott's rule for remote access is simple: this is my house, vendors connect on my terms, every session logged, with an approve or deny button before anyone gets in. Aaron adds the zip tie in the fan story, a backup switch that had silently failed months earlier and nobody knew until monitoring went on, and the two close on shrinking the wireless footprint that leaves your site and on Scott's podcast, The Industrial Wi-Fi Shop.

          In this episode, you'll learn:
          • Why a stable network comes before any security project, and what to fix first
          • How to war drive your own plant and what a passive scan of your airspace tells an attacker
          • Why hiding the SSID and relying on obscurity is not a control
          • Which industrial wireless protocols are standards based and which are proprietary risk
          • The questions to ask a wireless vendor before you sign
          • How to run vendor remote access on your terms: logged sessions, approve or deny, no standing tunnels
          • Why monitoring finds failures you did not know you had
          • Tune in to hear why your industrial airspace deserves the same design, monitoring, and ownership as any wired connection.

            About the guest:

            Scott McNeil is an Industrial Network and Security Architect II at Global Process Automation (GPA), where he helps manufacturers design, secure, and modernize the OT networks that keep critical processes running: architecture, IT/OT convergence, segmentation, resilient connectivity, and industrial wireless. A longtime wireless engineer, he created and co-hosts The Industrial WiFi Shop Podcast with Jeremy Baker, speaks regularly at OT and industrial cybersecurity events, holds a bachelor's degree in Industrial Technology from East Carolina University with multiple wireless and network certifications, and serves on the UNC Wilmington Cybersecurity Advisory Board.

            Important Links:
            • LinkedIn of Scott McNeil: https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
            • The Industrial Wi-Fi Shop Podcast: https://industrialwifishop.com/
            • The Industrial Wi-Fi Shop on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@IndustrialWi-FiShop
            • Scott on X: https://x.com/americanmcneil
            • Global Process Automation (GPA): https://www.globalprocessautomation.com/
            • Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

              Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

              The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
              This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep125/
              The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
              YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
              X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
              Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

              To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

              Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

              Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
              Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

              1 hr 6 min
            • Regulation Is the Budget Unlock OT Has Been Waiting For: NIS2, the CRA, and Getting the Basics Right with Tobias Nitzsche

              Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

              The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
              This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep124/
              The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

              NIS2, the EU Cyber Resilience Act, and CIRCIA are converging between now and 2027, and for the first time the law is pushing cybersecurity requirements upstream into product design and supply chain. What does that actually change on the plant floor?

              In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow talks with Tobias Nitzsche, Head of Legislation and Technology for Cybersecurity at ABB Energy Industries, about the shift regulation is driving in OT: responsibility moving from the server rooms into the boardrooms, and from the operator to the manufacturer.

              Tobias makes the case that what gets regulated are fundamentally the basics: risk assessment, asset inventory, cyber hygiene, and detection. The industry has preached these for a decade. Now the law demands them, which makes compliance the business case that finally unlocks long-overdue modernization budget. His advice: do not treat legislation as a paper exercise. Treat it as a utility.

              The second half is about recovery, the foundation most plants skip. Aaron and Tobias dig into the vendor-install backup that has never been tested, recovery targets that ignore how long a plant really takes to come back, retain values operators tuned for years that live nowhere else, redundant controllers that are not cyber resilience, and vendor SLAs that send a system engineer when you needed a cyber expert. Tobias's practical pattern: keep a replica of your critical systems, restore into the bubble, and be as intrusive as you like there, scanners and all, without touching production.

              Also in this one: NIS2 Article 20 and personal liability for executives, why a cyber incident does not need a nation state (bad firmware counts), where AI belongs in the Purdue model and where it does not, AI as the daily brief for the one-person water utility, Aaron's Exchange 5.5 story about the week the executives lost their email, borrowing the safety engineers' hazard studies as risk input, and why you should never fire up a wireless pineapple on an airplane.

              In this episode, you'll learn:
              • How NIS2, the Cyber Resilience Act, and CIRCIA move accountability to executives and manufacturers
              • Why 24-hour incident reporting starts with detection, and why you can't wing it
              • How to reframe your next modernization budget ask around compliance
              • What a real recovery plan needs: tested backups, plant-realistic RPO and RTO, and captured retain values
              • Why redundant controllers protect against failure, not compromise
              • How to test restores and run scanners safely in a replica instead of production
              • Where AI helps an understaffed operator and where it should never take control
              • Tune in to hear how the biggest regulatory wave in industrial cybersecurity history can become the budget unlock OT has been waiting for.

                About the guest:

                Tobias Nitzsche is Head of Legislation and Technology for Cybersecurity at ABB Energy Industries, where he translates the fast-moving regulatory landscape, including NIS2, the EU Cyber Resilience Act, and CIRCIA, into how products are designed and projects are delivered for critical infrastructure. Before this role he was ABB's Global Cyber Security Practice Lead, capping more than 20 years across IT and OT security. Having sat on both sides of the table, first delivering cybersecurity services to critical infrastructure operators and now shaping how legislation lands in engineering practice, he brings a combined view of policy, technology, and plant-floor reality that few in the industry carry. Tobias is based in Germany.

                Important Links:
                • LinkedIn of Tobias Nitzsche: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobias-nitzsche-37339735/
                • ABB Energy Industries: https://global.abb/group/en/organization/energy-industries
                • Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                  Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                  The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                  This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep124/
                  The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                  X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                  Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                  To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                  Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                  47 min
                • AI in OT: Why Humans Stay in the Loop and the Junior Problem with Jori VanAntwerp

                  Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                  The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                  This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep123/
                  The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                  AI is a consensus engine, and consensus on the internet is frequently wrong. So what does that mean for the people defending power plants, water systems, and factories with it?

                  In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow welcomes back Jori VanAntwerp, CEO and founder of EmberOT, for a completely unscripted conversation on AI in OT. Two practitioners who use AI aggressively every day make the case for restraint in exactly the places that matter.

                  Jori explains why human in the loop is non-negotiable: AI shapes a junior's output to look senior without the understanding underneath, so you have to be able to interrogate it. Aaron walks through his own sandbox discipline, where AI gets a folder and not the keys, and nothing goes in that he would not publish on the internet.

                  The conversation then turns to the OT reality behind AI-found vulnerabilities, why an attacker who can reach your HMI or PLC does not need your unpatched CVE, teaching AI your voice with markdown primers, the build-versus-buy MVP trap, the submarine principle for modular defense, and why an operator flipping to manual is still the save of last resort.

                  Underneath all of it is the workforce math nobody is doing on air: if one person plus AI does the work of five, nobody is training juniors, and no juniors today means no seniors in ten years. OT's aging-out workforce is the preview.

                  In this episode, you'll learn:
                  • Why AI is a consensus engine, and why that framing predicts where it fails
                  • Why human in the loop is not optional for anything that matters
                  • How to sandbox AI in real workflows: a folder, not the keys
                  • How to rank AI-found vulnerabilities against what an attacker in your OT network can actually do
                  • How primers teach AI your voice, brand, and rules
                  • The build versus buy trap: if a power company builds its own software, it is now a software company
                  • The submarine principle: compartments, modular tooling, and swapping tools without ripping out the estate
                  • Why analog fallbacks and operators keep saving critical infrastructure
                  • The junior pipeline problem: no juniors today means no seniors in ten years
                  • Why the entry-level job for OT cybersecurity is IT
                  • Tune in for the most honest AI conversation the show has had, from the people who actually run it in OT.

                    About the guest:

                    Jori VanAntwerp is a two-time cybersecurity founder and CEO who has spent over two decades helping industrial and IT/OT organizations reduce risk, strengthen compliance, and mature the way they defend critical infrastructure. He has held executive and leadership roles at McAfee, FireEye, CrowdStrike, Dragos, and Gravwell before stepping into the founder seat, first at SynSaber and now as the Founder and CEO at EmberOT. The result is a vantage point that runs from the boardroom to the packet capture, from silicon to the cloud. At EmberOT, he is focused on bringing visibility, security, and risk quantification to the critical infrastructure the rest of the world takes for granted.

                    From EmberOT:

                    Want to see what is really happening in your OT environment? EmberOT provides flow-first, passive OT visibility and threat detection without requiring proprietary hardware.

                    Learn more about EmberOT: https://emberot.com/

                    Request a demo: https://www.emberot.com/request-a-demo/
                    Want to explore your own OT network traffic right now? Download the free EmberOT PCAP Analyzer: https://www.emberot.com/ot-pcap-analyzer/

                    Important Links:
                    • Jori VanAntwerp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jvanantwerp/
                    • EmberOT: https://emberot.com/
                    • Jori's previous episodes: Ep 49, The Intersection of IT and OT: Highlights from S4 Conference: https://youtu.be/OuocvnZsKwU and Ep 29, Bridging IT and OT in Cybersecurity for Power Plants: https://youtu.be/0stFEr6krbY
                    • Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                      Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                      The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                      This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep123/
                      The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                      YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                      X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                      Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                      To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                      Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                      Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                      Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                      1 hr 6 min
                    • Building the Cybersecurity Community: From 120 People to 3,000 at CYBR.SEC.CON

                      Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                      The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                      This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep122/
                      The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                      Get your tickets for CYBR.SEC.CON., a two-day cybersecurity conference, here: https://www.cybrseccon.com/

                      What started with 120 people and a homemade Word flyer has grown into a cybersecurity community of more than 3,000. So what does it take to build a community that can scale without losing its personal connection?

                      In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Michael Farnum, CEO and co-founder of CYBR.SEC.Community, and Sam Van Ryder, co-founder and an OT sales expert, to explore the story behind the growth of CYBR.SEC.CON and the community surrounding it.

                      Michael and Sam share how they went from a grassroots cybersecurity gathering to a thriving community while keeping the relationships and sense of connection that made the event special in the first place.

                      The conversation goes beyond conferences. Aaron, Michael, and Sam discuss the challenges facing people trying to break into cybersecurity and OT, why entry-level opportunities can be difficult to find, and what experienced professionals can do to help develop the next generation of cyber defenders.

                      They also share their hands-on efforts to introduce young people to cybersecurity, including bringing 75 high school students into the community, with plans to reach 150.

                      From hiring and firing lessons to career advice, community building, and the future of OT cybersecurity, this episode offers practical insight for anyone looking to grow their career, build meaningful connections, or help strengthen the cybersecurity workforce.

                      In this episode, you'll learn:
                      • How CYBR.SEC.Community grew from 120 people to more than 3,000
                      • What it takes to scale a cybersecurity community without losing its personal feel
                      • Why conferences can play an important role in cybersecurity careers
                      • How to break into OT and cybersecurity when you're just starting out
                      • The challenges surrounding entry-level cybersecurity jobs
                      • How community and mentorship can help develop the next generation of cyber professionals
                      • What CYBR.SEC.Community is doing to engage high school students in cybersecurity
                      • Coming September 15 and 16, 2026

                        CYBR.SEC.CON 2026 brings the cybersecurity community together again on September 15 and 16 at the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston, Texas.

                        If you're looking to connect with cybersecurity professionals, expand your network, learn from practitioners, discover career opportunities, and be part of a growing cyber community, CYBR.SEC.CON 2026 is an event worth checking out.

                        Tune in to hear the story behind CYBR.SEC.CON, the people building the community, and why the future of cybersecurity depends on bringing more people into the conversation.

                        About the guests:

                        Michael Farnum is the CEO and co-founder of CYBR.SEC.Community and has worked in IT and cybersecurity since 1994. He founded HOU.SEC.CON. in 2010, which evolved into CYBR.SEC.CON., now attracting more than 3,000 cybersecurity professionals annually. Michael is passionate about cybersecurity community building, workforce development, education, and career development, and is a frequent speaker and podcaster on security leadership and industry trends.

                        Sam Van Ryder is the CoFounder of CYBR.SEC.Community and Director of Strategic Accounts at Dragos. With more than 20 years of experience spanning mechanical engineering and technology sales, including over a decade focused on ICS and OT security, Sam brings deep industry expertise and a strong passion for cybersecurity community building. He is also a co-founder of HOU.SEC.CON., now CYBR.SEC.CON., which has grown into a major regional cybersecurity gathering.

                        Important Links:
                        • LinkedIn of Michael Farnum: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfarnum/
                        • LinkedIn of Sam Van Ryder: https://www.linkedin.com/in/svanryder/
                        • CYBR.SEC.CON: https://www.cybrseccon.com/
                        • CYBR.SEC.Community: https://www.cybrsec.community/
                        • CYBR.SEC.Careers: https://www.cybrseccareers.org/
                        • CYBR.SEC.Events on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cybrsecevents/
                        • Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                          Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                          The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                          This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep122/
                          The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                          YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                          X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                          Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                          To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                          Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                          Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                          Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                          47 min
                        • What Makes a Cybersecurity Startup Valuable in the AI Era? A VC's Perspective

                          Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                          The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                          This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep121/
                          The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                          AI has made it easier than ever to build a cybersecurity product. But has it also made it harder to build a valuable cybersecurity company?

                          In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Ken Elefant, Founding Managing Director of the venture group at Sorenson Capital, for a candid conversation about what really makes cybersecurity startups succeed.

                          Ken shares a venture investor's perspective on the rapidly changing security market, including why simply wrapping a product around an LLM may not create lasting value, how AI is accelerating commoditization, and what founders need to do to build a meaningful competitive advantage.

                          The conversation goes beyond technology to explore the often-overlooked role of people, process, market positioning, and execution. Aaron and Ken discuss the importance of finding the right "wedge" into enterprise security, solving real customer problems, differentiating in crowded markets, and building companies that can create lasting value rather than chasing the latest technology trend.

                          They also draw on lessons from successful cybersecurity exits and the changing threat landscape to examine what investors are looking for as AI reshapes both cybersecurity products and the businesses behind them.

                          Key Learning: 

                          • What venture investors look for in cybersecurity startups
                          • Why AI-powered security products can quickly become commoditized
                          • How founders can find a strong market wedge
                          • Why solving a real customer problem matters more than adding AI
                          • The role of people and process in building successful security companies
                          • How cybersecurity startups can differentiate in an increasingly crowded market
                          • What founders and operators can learn from successful security exits
                          • Where AI is creating genuine opportunity and where the hype may be ahead of the value
                          • Key Moments: 

                            03:43 Using AI in podcasting

                            07:41 Trusting vendors and cybersecurity risks

                            10:59 Building Connections for Early Investments

                            15:19 Investing in emerging tech markets

                            17:45 Supporting AI-based startup growth

                            20:19 Building simple websites for businesses

                            26:03 Attracted to boring, overlooked markets

                            27:21 Building compliance products at Industrial Defender

                            30:16 Investing in defense tech startups

                            33:20 Experienced founders leveraging AI for products

                            38:32 Navigating fast-changing tech landscape

                            40:09 Importance of Building Trust in Business

                            Whether you're a cybersecurity founder, investor, security practitioner, technology leader, or entrepreneur, this episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at how experienced investors evaluate innovation in one of the fastest-moving areas of technology.

                            Tune in to hear what separates a promising cybersecurity idea from a company capable of creating lasting value.

                            DISCLAIMER : "Any portfolio companies mentioned in this episode are investments of Sorenson Capital funds and do not represent all fund investments. A complete list of investments is available upon request. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute an offer to sell or solicitation to buy securities."

                            About the guest : 

                            Ken Elefant is a forward-thinking venture investor with a deep interest in how artificial intelligence is transforming society and business. Ken has focused on vertical applications of AI, like Jump.ai, a portfolio company that streamlines manual work for wealth managers. By backing companies that implement AI in targeted, thoughtful ways, Ken aims to help professionals become more efficient and better prepared, reflecting his belief that AI’s true value lies in practical, well-executed solutions.

                            How to connect Ken:

                            LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenelefant/ 

                            Kencrypted newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/kencrypted-7307431988703940608/  

                            Sorenson team page: https://www.sorensoncapital.com/team/ken-elefant/

                            Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                            Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                            The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                            This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep121/
                            The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                            YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                            X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                            Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                            To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                            Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                            Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                            Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                            46 min
                          • Million-Dollar Buttons: How Offshore OT Is Embracing Containers and Modern Cybersecurity

                            Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                            The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                            This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep120/
                            The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                            Offshore oil and gas operations don't have the luxury of simply shutting everything down and starting over.

                            In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Josh Herr and Matt McLendon to explore the real-world challenges of modernizing cybersecurity and technology in offshore operational technology (OT) environments.

                            From million-dollar equipment and aging control systems to virtualization, containers, and edge computing, this conversation reveals what it actually takes to keep critical industrial operations running when technology fails, hardware is difficult to replace, and downtime can come at an enormous cost.

                            Aaron, Josh, and Matt share stories from the field, including the creative decisions operators sometimes have to make to keep one rig running when another goes down. They also explore the gradual shift from legacy Windows and Sun workstations toward Linux, containerization, and newer approaches to managing industrial systems.

                            But this isn't simply a conversation about replacing old technology with new technology. It's about understanding the realities of OT cybersecurity, where reliability, availability, safety, cost, and security all have to work together.

                            Key Learning: 

                            • Why offshore OT environments present unique cybersecurity challenges
                            • How legacy systems continue to influence modern industrial operations
                            • Why containers and virtualization are gaining ground in OT
                            • How operators balance cybersecurity with uptime and reliability
                            • The surprising realities of maintaining aging industrial hardware
                            • What the shift from Windows to Linux can mean for OT environments
                            • How creative problem-solving can keep critical operations running
                            • Where AI, containers, and modern infrastructure could take OT next
                            • Key Moments:
                              06:16 Frustrations with vendor costs and delays

                              09:34 Offshore connectivity and autonomy challenges

                              13:02 Managing power plants across Texas

                              16:19 Challenges with industrial HMIs and alarms

                              19:40 Vendor control and security policies

                              21:16 Component delays and industry characters

                              24:08 Final integration testing and safety factors

                              28:20 Vendor management challenges with outdated tech

                              34:02 Missing sysadmin skills in industry

                              35:59 Challenges with ARM architecture

                              41:09 Managing hardware life cycles

                              44:23 Concerns about AI and open source

                              45:43 Future of JavaScript and integration

                              Whether you work in oil and gas, industrial cybersecurity, critical infrastructure, engineering, or OT operations, this episode offers an honest look at the gap between cybersecurity theory and what actually works in the field.

                              Listen in for the war stories, lessons learned, and "art of the possible" approaches helping bring modern technology into some of the world's most challenging OT environments.

                              About the guests: 

                              Matt is a multidisciplinary team leader and technology practitioner with experience spanning electrical systems, controls, automation, data systems, and IS/IT. His background includes offshore oil and gas electronics, systems administration, and computer hardware, with a strong emphasis on troubleshooting and component-level repair. Matt has led diverse technical teams in fast-paced, mission-critical environments, where collaboration, clarity, and effective problem-solving are essential.

                              Contact Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewamclendon/

                              Josh is a software engineer and technology architect with more than a decade of experience designing and building systems across desktop applications, cloud infrastructure, and modern cybersecurity environments. His background spans multiple technology verticals and industries, giving him a practical, cross-functional perspective on how organizations secure complex systems at every layer of the technology stack. Josh brings deep expertise in software engineering, cloud architecture, and cybersecurity strategy, with a focus on helping organizations navigate evolving security challenges without sacrificing operational performance. His work combines hands-on technical knowledge with a strong understanding of how security, infrastructure, and business priorities intersect in real-world environments.

                              Contact Josh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-herr-ba4bba54/

                              Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                              Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                              The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                              This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep120/
                              The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                              YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                              X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                              Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                              To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                              Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                              Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                              Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                              51 min
                            • AI Agent Security: How to Stop Autonomous AI from Becoming Your Biggest Insider Threat

                              Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                              The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                              This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep119/
                              The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                              AI agents are becoming more autonomous - but are they becoming more secure?

                              In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow welcomes David Girvin for a timely discussion about one of the fastest-growing challenges in cybersecurity: AI agent security and governance.

                              From an unconventional career as a ship captain to building one of the first governance platforms for AI agents, David shares why organizations must begin treating AI agents as powerful digital coworkers with permissions, identities, and risks that require the same level of oversight as human employees.

                              Together, Aaron and David explore how autonomous AI systems can unintentionally create business risk, why credential starvation, execution-layer security, and human-in-the-loop controls are becoming essential, and how organizations can safely adopt AI without sacrificing security.

                              In this episode, you'll learn:

                              • Why AI agents should be treated like insider threats
                              • The biggest security risks of autonomous AI
                              • How guardrails prevent costly AI mistakes
                              • Why human oversight still matters in an AI-driven world
                              • What credential starvation means and why it's effective
                              • Practical governance strategies for enterprise AI adoption
                              • Key Moments: 

                                05:31 Career paths and diverse experiences

                                06:24 Startup experiences and mentoring journey

                                09:30 Exploring a career shift to marketing

                                15:30 Building a Successful Career

                                18:20 Governance and AI risks

                                19:24 Early AI research and presentation

                                23:19 Just-in-time tokens discussion

                                27:52 Balancing work, family, and startup challenges

                                30:48 Transitioning from Operations to Events

                                35:18 Industry friendships and shared experiences

                                36:04 Work stress and job challenges

                                39:49 Securing AI systems and LLM inputs

                                43:46 Developing AI observability tools

                                47:56 Managing session risk and autonomy levels

                                51:14 Security and file management controls

                                55:34 Cybersecurity awareness chat

                                Whether you're building AI applications, leading cybersecurity programs, or simply exploring how AI will change your business, this episode offers practical insights into securing the next generation of intelligent systems.

                                Tune in to learn how organizations can embrace AI innovation while keeping people, data, and critical systems protected.

                                About the guest :
                                David Girvin is a cybersecurity leader, security architect, and Founder & CEO of Assury.ai, where he is building execution-level governance for AI agents. With leadership experience at companies including 1Password, Red Canary, and Sumo Logic, David has spent his career helping organizations strengthen security, architecture, and AI strategy. He specializes in making complex cybersecurity and AI concepts practical and accessible, helping businesses adopt emerging technologies securely and responsibly.


                                Links to connect David: 

                                LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-a-girvin/ 

                                Website: https://assury.ai

                                Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                                Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                                The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                                This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep119/
                                The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                                YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                                X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                                Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                                To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                                Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                                Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                                Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                                58 min
                              • AI & Cybersecurity: Why People, Accountability & Resilience Still Matter

                                Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                                The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                                This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep118/
                                The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                                AI is changing cybersecurity at an incredible pace. But are organizations prepared for the risks that come with it?

                                In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow sits down with Brian Schleifer, an industry veteran with decades of experience spanning the military, technology, consulting, defense, and critical infrastructure.

                                Aaron and Brian explore what it really takes to adopt AI responsibly across IT and OT cybersecurity. Beyond the technology itself, they examine the human side of security, including communication, collaboration, accountability, and the skills needed to make new technologies work in the real world.

                                The conversation also tackles the growing challenges of AI governance, shadow AI, continuous monitoring, and cyber-physical resilience. Rather than treating AI as a magic solution, Brian offers a practical perspective on how organizations can be intentional about where and how they use AI while preparing for the disruptions it may create.

                                Key Learnings: 

                                • How organizations can approach AI adoption in IT and OT cybersecurity
                                • Why communication and collaboration are critical to successful security programs
                                • The growing risks of shadow AI and AI governance
                                • Why human accountability remains essential as AI becomes more capable
                                • How continuous monitoring can strengthen cyber-physical security
                                • Why organizations need to think beyond prevention and prepare for resilience and business continuity
                                • How people, process, and technology must work together in an AI-driven environment
                                • Key Moments: 

                                  05:22 Working in tech and cybersecurity

                                  07:23 Importance of people skills in business

                                  10:20 Importance of Listening First

                                  14:31 Implementing Machine Learning Thoughtfully

                                  16:44 Importance of Human Oversight in AI

                                  20:21 Discussing security and human accountability

                                  24:24 Publishing a book with AI tools

                                  27:47 Future of computing technology

                                  31:39 Focusing on disaster recovery strategies

                                  35:27 Budgeting Challenges with Emerging Tech

                                  38:00 Focus on proactive security planning

                                  40:40 Evaluating cybersecurity effectiveness

                                  45:49 Challenges in incident response logistics

                                  47:33 Talking about Security Week events

                                  Whether you're a cybersecurity leader, OT professional, technology executive, or simply trying to understand what AI means for the future of security, this episode offers practical perspectives on navigating the change without losing sight of what matters most.

                                  Listen to the latest episode of Protect It All and discover how organizations can embrace AI while building the trust, accountability, and resilience needed to protect what matters.

                                  About the Guest : 

                                  Brian "SchleiF" Schleifer is a retired United States Air Force veteran, cybersecurity professional, content leader, and owner of PAVE Consulting LLC, which provides digital content creation and cybersecurity consulting. Through PAVE Consulting, he currently supports SecurityWeek as Director of Content and Events, helping lead conferences, podcasts, webinars, and executive-level cybersecurity programming. Brian previously served in senior cybersecurity engineering and leadership roles at Modern Technology Solutions Inc. His experience includes cyber-physical and weapon systems security, security control assessment, cyber testing, risk management, and AI governance. He is pursuing a Doctor of Technology at Purdue University, where his research focuses on adaptive cybersecurity policy for AI-enabled systems. He is also the creator of the Adaptive Artificial Intelligence Risk and Assurance Framework, or AAIRAF. With more than 10,000 hours of public speaking, instruction, and panel moderation experience, Brian is known for making complex cybersecurity, technology, and risk topics practical and accessible.

                                  Important links to connect Brian: 

                                  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-schleifer/ 

                                  SecurityWeek: https://www.securityweek.com/ 

                                  SecurityWeek TV: https://www.youtube.com/@SecurityWeek-TV 

                                  PAVE YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@P.A.V.E. 

                                  AI Risk Summit: https://www.airisksummit.com/ 

                                  ICS Cyber Conference: https://www.icscybersecurityconference.com/ 

                                  PAVE email: [email protected]

                                  Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                                  Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                                  The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                                  This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep118/
                                  The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                                  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                                  X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                                  Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                                  To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                                  Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                                  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                                  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                                  52 min
                                • OT Pen Testing: Why Trust, Culture & Hands-On Experience Matter Most

                                  Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                                  The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                                  This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep117/
                                  The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/

                                  Effective OT penetration testing isn't just about finding vulnerabilities, it's about building trust.

                                  In this episode of Protect It All, host Aaron Crow is joined by Oren Niskin and Reynaldo Gonzalez for an engaging discussion on the evolving role of penetration testing in operational technology (OT) environments.

                                  Drawing from years of experience in industrial operations, IT, and OT cybersecurity, Oren and Reynaldo explain why successful OT security assessments require far more than technical expertise. They explore how trust, communication, and collaboration help bridge the gap between security teams and operations, making penetration testing a valuable business tool rather than something to fear.

                                  The conversation also highlights the importance of diverse career paths, hands-on learning, and mentoring the next generation of cybersecurity professionals. From network segmentation and risk communication to creating realistic lab environments, this episode offers practical lessons for anyone responsible for securing critical infrastructure.

                                  Key Learnings: 

                                  • Why trust is essential for successful OT penetration testing
                                  • How IT and operational experience strengthen OT security teams
                                  • The value of network segmentation in reducing cyber risk
                                  • Why "doing nothing" is no longer an acceptable cybersecurity strategy
                                  • How organizations can bridge the gap between safety, operations, and security
                                  • Practical ways to develop the next generation of OT cybersecurity professionals
                                  • Key Moments: 

                                    07:00 Oren's technology and security approach

                                    15:04 Discussing network security measures

                                    19:16 Building Trust in Business Relationships

                                    26:17 Understanding and planning security architecture

                                    30:16 Network management and rule assessment

                                    33:39 Managing and Assessing Tool Overload

                                    38:39 Analyzing tool overlap and complementarity

                                    48:41 Building a trusting team culture

                                    49:48 Encouraging Open Communication

                                    56:34 Getting into cybersecurity without IT experience

                                    01:04:56 Entry-level ICS training courses

                                    Whether you're an OT engineer, penetration tester, security leader, or just beginning your cybersecurity journey, this episode delivers practical insights into protecting industrial environments while building stronger relationships across teams.

                                    Tune in to discover why the most successful OT penetration tests don't just identify vulnerabilities they build trust, strengthen teams, and improve security for the long term.

                                    About the guests: 

                                    Oren Niskin is Principal OT Security Engineer at GuidePoint Security. His 20-year arc runs from the US Navy as a Nuclear Electrician's Mate, to Electronics Technician on offshore drilling rigs, to office OT/IT management, to OT cybersecurity consulting at EY, and now into OT cyber engineering at GuidePoint. He also runs Packets Or It Didn't Happen, a YouTube livestream where he builds a factory-realistic PLC and HMI training kit on camera (the open-source PLC Trainer Kit), aimed at helping newcomers get hands-on with OT for under $500.

                                    Link to connect Oren Niskin:

                                    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/orenniskin/

                                    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PacketsOrItDidntHappen

                                    PLC Trainer Kit (GitHub): https://github.com/oniskin/PLC-Trainer-Kit

                                    LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/17708001/

                                    Reynaldo Gonzalez is a recognized cybersecurity thought leader with 18+ years of experience helping organizations strengthen cyber resilience and secure critical infrastructure. His expertise spans cybersecurity strategy, IT/OT security, AI security, risk management, and digital transformation, complemented by a passion for education, innovation, and industry collaboration.

                                    Link to connect Reynaldo Gonzalez: 

                                    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reynaldoglz/

                                    Learn more about PrOTect IT All:

                                    Work with Aaron: https://protectitallpod.com/work/

                                    The book: https://protectitallpod.com/book/
                                    This episode: https://protectitallpod.com/ep117/
                                    The OT Security Starter Kit: https://protectitallpod.com/starter-kit/
                                    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PrOTectITAll
                                    X: https://twitter.com/protectitall
                                    Facebook: https://facebook.com/protectitallpodcast

                                    To be a guest or suggest a guest or episode, email [email protected].

                                    Please leave us a review on Apple or Spotify:

                                    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/protect-it-all/id1727211124
                                    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Vvi0euj3rE8xObK0yvYi4

                                    1 hr 11 min

                                  About PrOTect It All

                                  From the publisher's feed

                                  PrOTect IT All with Aaron Crow delivers weekly episodes focused on cybersecurity and operational technology, tackling emerging threats across industrial control systems, AI security, and IoT threats.…

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