Protecting your VALUE

Matthew Wahlrab, founder and CEO of Rapid Alpha on an episode on how building the right IP foundation can set you up for success.

Whether you are a tech company looking to penetrate into the US market and leverage what you already own or if you are a younger company building your core or foundational tech, this episode will hopefully give you some insights on how to look at your IP and intangible assets.

The post The Ultimate IP Strategy first appeared on AppeIfeld&Co..

Whether you are young or mature company and in the process of filing your patent applications, listen to Guy Levi talk about what your focus should be when filing patent applications and what to think about when tossing your marketing plans into dumpsters.

ilanit Appelfeld Hi guy. Welcome to protecting your value podcast. Thank you for joining us today.

Guy Levi Thanks for having me.

ilanit Appelfeld For those who don’t know you. I would love you to explain a little bit about what you do how you got to doing what you’re doing. I mean I know you used to work at Unilever and in PepsiCo as a process engineer. But tell us a bit.

Guy Levi I started my career in the United States in accounting a small company called General Foods it is a part of a huge conglomerate by the name of Altria which used to be Philip Morris. I got my first job in 1989 . So I think and um I finished my bachelor’s degree in food science in Rutgers University and I passed the interview and later on I found out that the only reason I got my job was because I could lift a bag of flour from a 50 pound bag of flour above my head. Nothing to do with mental capacity. I continued to do directly for my PhD in  physical chemistry of bio polymers after which I came back to Israel and worked for Teva Pharmaceuticals for a while .Um sitting on the seam between R&D and the production doing mostly scale up work .How do you go from you know 300 tablets an hour of acamol and how do make it about three hundred thousand tablets of acamol per hour.

ilanit Appelfeld So a lot of a lot of industry experience.

Guy Levi Yeah. Sixteen years plus as a process engineer proper.

ilanit Appelfeld very impressive.

Guy Levi In the chemical and pharmaceutical industry chemical processing industry and PhD in P Chem 

ilanit Appelfeld An MBA in technology management and you haven’t mentioned.

Guy Levi A degree in a JD. I’m an attorney U.S. attorney.

ilanit Appelfeld Okay. So. So I want to tell our listeners very briefly how we met because it was very scary for me at the time. I was a partner in another law firm and I was beginning a new way. And I was looking for someone who could assist my clients in drafting patent applications. That was uh I had um well I what I was looking at the US because we were buying and selling patents and the quality of the patents was critical in that way. It had to be strong enough to withstand litigation. And I was looking at what am I going to do with clients who had good inventions mostly medical devices and I was introduced to you we met and it was a strange meeting. I remember asking you about your experience and you mentioned you know all your experience seems to be all over the place and we just said hey let’s start to work together and let’s see how it goes with this client of mine that needs help in drafting a U.S application and I remember I was really worried about how someone who writes a patent in the U.S. Can work with an Israeli inventor. Well we know that inventors need help handholding over Skype to discuss the invention and you know start brainstorming about the patent strategy and what happened in that call was it was magic because I realized that you can be a far better listener. Um when you’re on the phone you don’t necessarily need to sit in front of the person and sometimes it actually helps the less distracted. Right. So, I think what happened in that call is that my mind opened to the idea of it’s not important where we sit. And I loved the way that you think and we’ve been working together ever since and I think that I can only do what I have said to me. So yeah. Seven or eight years and I can tell you that my clients are really happy with the work that you’ve done so far and I want to thank you for that.

ilanit Appelfeld What I thought we could do today is talk about the mistakes that companies do from our experience so that maybe through the mistakes our listeners can hear our practical tips for our listeners. I feel that when I hear stories, I get the most insight because I see you know I learned through a story. what do you think are the most common mistakes companies do when it comes to you know for example just the other day we saw a company going into a financing round not ready unprepared for what was. um disclosed to investors and we had to rush things for the company we had to sit with the founders and tell them what they’re going to look at in terms of the timeline of the patent, so. let’s take that example. You know preparing for an investment round for a finance round. what do you think the mistake companies do with that?

Guy Levi You know we’ve been on both sides of due diligence an investor or a potential purchaser looks at the company. I have several questions that come to mind. Question number one is obviously leading people what is their experience in creating equity for the company and. What’s the need for the product and what is unique about the company? what’s a business model that will help them get to where they need to be.

Guy Levi One of the things that can be improved is for those companies to have a very clear idea of where their added value is to the market and from that derive everything else. what is their core strength? Well when it comes to these things so and. it doesn’t matter if it’s a startup or a mature company though they will all have to do the same thing and decide. This is where we add value to the market. Whether it’s a product whether it’s service whatever it is what do we do better than anybody else.

Guy Levi And the issue is that what you think as the company is your added value is not necessarily the right thing. What you should do is find out from your competitors. What they think you do better than anybody else that is your core strength.

ilanit Appelfeld But what if you’re a startup?

Guy Levi If you’re a startup. Exactly. So, if you’re a startup. Try and focus on the market need that brought you to the solution that you have.

ilanit Appelfeld That’s Excellent.

Guy Levi So if you know where was the gap what is the current state of affairs. What is the issues with the current state of affairs and where do you fit exactly that. That solves some whole of them. That particular gap that technology gap whether again whether it’s services or whether it’s a product that is what you should protect.

ilanit Appelfeld Excellent. So, you’re saying forget about the patent. Define first what your core strength is.

Guy Levi Yes. And where’s the gap. And how you how you address that particular gap and align your IP and align your unique solution.

Guy Levi Unique solution. So again. The wider scope of protection for the longest time. At the cheapest possible cost too.

ilanit Appelfeld Right, Of course that is it.

Guy Levi And based on that. See. See if you are going to file a patent. Not going to file a patent trademark trade secret design.

ilanit Appelfeld So this is this is almost impossible to do when you have a financing round and your patent attorney asks you questions like well what is your core strength. the court strength is to get this finance round to bring the money into the bank. And don’t be in that situation. Plan ahead and your IP is going to be much stronger as a result.

Guy Levi Yeah. Or go to your department heads if you have any if not as a founder you decide. This is my core strength. This is what I need to protect and going into the financing round. Have that defined somehow. and at least at the very least create yourself some sort of a trade secret. That is where you think your idea your concept your device your service gives you a competitive advantage.

ilanit Appelfeld Right. Yes. I was going to I was going to get into trade secrets but maybe if we if we complete the finance round preparing your company for a round also means getting your paperwork in place getting your employment agreements and the assignments and what have you for the investors the attorneys to dig into. What do you think about the startups that you or bigger companies that you work with that come into the investment round?

Guy Levi Oh yeah. Again, here depends which investment round it is. Okay so if we’re talking about like seed money, we’re talking about you know first the first investment round. So that needs in terms of IP and the first investment rounds are a foundation or what are your foundation or if you have a foundational patent which pretty much. He’s sort of. Let’s take um. If you’re a chemical company what is the principle of the principle of whatever it is that you’re doing that. Get it the way you need to be in terms of the result. If it is artificial intelligence again what defined the narrow what improvement seeking. Whether you with your solution even if it is artificial intelligence it’s a medical device.

Guy Levi Not so much. I’m not looking for a particular indication in terms of whether it’s epilepsy or multiple sclerosis or something like that but have a defined broadly as much as you can on a foundational patent do not the narrow will come much later on services same story. Try and think the widest array that you can because that will define your so the boundaries of where you’ll need to narrow down based on the feedback that you’re going to get from investors.

ilanit Appelfeld Right to find foundational do the foundational work. Define your IP in terms of uh you know my my Seed IP which can be narrowed down later. And you’re ready to go when you’re in foundational stage of your company life and then companies um a company.

Guy Levi At a later stage then your IP should protect. Shall we say that the product that are in the market I think there is a statistic now saying that the number of patents that are uh the percentage of patents that are protecting products in the market is around between 3 and 5 percent.

ilanit Appelfeld Which is unbelievable which is unbelievable because it means that patents are filed irrespective to the product. Yes. And it means that company files patents that are not highly correlated to the products that they file it for the sake of filing them.

Guy Levi one thing to remember though that um that it includes IBM and that and no not just that. But if we take a startup company and that that’s another mistake that we see by the way and that is the um. Not always the IP prosecution. Well you know they’re in the process of obtaining their IP is aligned with the product development. And one of the mistakes or one of the issues that we see is that. Especially when using large firm is that there is sort of a diversion during the prosecution and the product development stage.

Guy Levi So that you end up with a product which is not covered by the IP.

ilanit Appelfeld I totally agree.

Guy Levi And a huge problem because this cycle. Let’s look at this this way. Um.

ilanit Appelfeld We can we can give an example of.

Guy Levi Several any medical devices. We’ve done this with dental implants that we found out that you know the um the product of um. Well we won’t mention names but we have that the. We had to file a continuation in part on a patent because of the product development did not come from the patent that we actually got the first.

ilanit Appelfeld The way it happens is the investor does his due diligence on the company he wants to invest it. Now it’s a snapshot and it’s a snapshot. And then he asks us as the team representing the investor to see whether the patents have real commercial value and then we look at the patents we interview the inventors and we see that there is a gap between what the inventors wanted the products to be and what the product is at R & D wise and what the patent office records show. Yes.

Guy Levi Um happens more than once.

ilanit Appelfeld So I think that the practical tip here would be make sure that the patent is aligned in some foundational aspect with the with the product.

Guy Levi Product development.  Just it’s all a question of communication. That’s another thing that we I think we should talk about and communicate with your patent attorney. Yeah. In other words, it’s not release and forget it’s not a third generation missile. You know once you got it you’ve got to maintain communication especially if during the product development there’s uh. You see a major change just talk. On one hand on the other hand as companies you have to insist or insist as may or may be a strong buy try the preference should be for the same patent attorney to handle your prosecution. Throughout the development process otherwise you’ll lose the institutional memory. Oh, and your um. And the probability that something will go awry.

ilanit Appelfeld Increase don’t switch between patent attorneys. Uh too much.

Guy Levi Not even within the same firm. If you’re dealing with the same firm. Try and ask them whether it’s us or somebody else trying to ask to make sure that it’s the same pattern attorney that is handling your prosecution.

ilanit Appelfeld So let’s talk about your experience of diving into dumpsters.

Guy Levi for um I guess exposure reasons I will need to refrain from mentioning the companies but let’s say a major international conglomerate A and of the major international conglomerate B is a competitor and I was sitting on the seam between our R&D and legal for that for corporation A and um as an assignment we were looking to do competitive intelligence we were looking actually at marketing plans not necessarily you know formulation secrets but if you know one of the biggest issues in competitive intelligence is to find out what are the plans of your competitors going forward so you can prepare for them.

Guy Levi So there is a law in the United States saying that a trash can on a curb is free for all. It does in other words you don’t have property rights. So there was a large dumpster of cooperation B.  right next to the corporate headquarters and we essentially jumped in it and started looking for corporate plans. It was November and we found it and it was a great success. Now. What it does is what it does is it pretty much it opens your eyes to to how little attention people give to the whole concept of um of trade secrets and all that.

ilanit Appelfeld Hold on. I want to you were asked to look into marketing plans of competitors or information regarding.

Guy Levi To collect competitive intelligence.

ilanit Appelfeld Okay. So, you jump into the you dive into the dumpster. Yes.

ilanit Appelfeld What do you wear when you dive into dumpsters.

Guy Levi Mm hmm. Well you come in with street clothes you don’t you don’t put masks or anything like that. You come in the street clothes usually late afternoon uh not wearing your Sunday best but you going in. The interesting thing is this is you know this is the United States that nobody pays attention to this nobody paid attention to us. It was amazing.

ilanit Appelfeld So you should dive into the dump. What do you find?

Guy Levi Well. It’s not exactly that you do this out of the blue. Just come in. You know usually you do it like Friday afternoon. Okay. Oh well Friday afternoon and I’ll tell you I think you do it Friday afternoon between September and November because corporate plans start in August. The budget is being closed around November. So imagine. Between September and November. Every Friday you dive into the dumpster and you collect. You know you’re looking for very shiny brochures because in these high large corporations you know you get to you do presentations. And the key to you haven’t given a lot of them. The key to a good to a good presentation when you’re presenting to upper management is A, be there early B finish early. Leave them time for questions which they never do because they want to leave on Friday afternoon. They want to leave. Go home and give them handouts. Okay so they print a lot of handouts so they print a lot of handout very shiny very you know. This is corporate So budgets are all there. Were. I don’t know what’s happening now but. Very shiny. So, you got yourself and you always print out more than you need because you never know who’s going to show up in terms of upper management. So, you print on more and then when you’re done. The proper way of doing this to shred it. But no they just somebody you know a lot of these upper management types also you know just dump it in the bio waste basket on the way out and the cleaning lady has no idea about trade secrets so she goes and shoot them she throws it outright. When we come in. Okay so we come in we collect marketing plans. And very interesting if you do this in sequence you also see the development of the plan. So, you may find out where it’s going where the plan is going and you can have a better assessment of where it’s going to end up.

Guy Levi That’s going a bit in the weeds but one of one thing that you always look for when you’re doing competitive of intelligence is the. Your competitor threshold return on investment what they are looking for. Because that will educate you on exactly how much risk they are going to take how much budget they are going to put into certain marketing for instance of things that compete directly with your product. This sounds like a manual on how to do competitive intelligence but that’s not the issue. The issue is that the awareness of the importance of maintaining and Keeping trade secrets. Is lacking in many companies that we deal with.

ilanit Appelfeld I agree which is a which is why statistics show that around 80 percent of the claims brought against current and former employees. Well it’s 80 percent of cases brought in in the field of trade secrets are against employees or contractors and we see that a lot. We see companies spending a lot of money on patents but not taking care of their trade secret protection plan which is how do we say. Which is.

Guy Levi Unfortunate. So that’s why again I have to say that. It’s not so much and we can discuss the difference between know how and trade secrets and there is a major difference. Trade secrets does not contain what a person learns in them. In the framework of their work in the framework of their experience. Trade secret does and that’s the major difference. Right. An employee would not have the knowhow that encompasses trade secrets but for their exposure to that trade secrets vs. know how. Um which in terms of strategy is very important especially when you get into collaboration with other company.

ilanit Appelfeld Well I think that we share this experience from companies not keeping their trade secrets. And we’ve recently done a trade secret protection plan for a company who had a very bad experience in. With one of its contractors I think a practical tip here would be create a trade secret plan that employees would be aware of one of the reasons why we want employees to be aware of is that to help them understand the difference between their know how. What they are allowed to keep and what they have every right to go to it to care or to go to the next place with you and the company’s trade secrets which is the company’s asset. And the times this difference is the line between these trade secrets and know how is blurry. And we’ve developed this strategy on how to create the difference between knowhow and trade secrets. Right. How do we create that separation between know how and trade secrets.

Guy Levi I think it all goes to communication and awareness. Then like you said there is no there’s no way you can. It’s known the freedom of employment. You cannot stop people from using their experience when they move between companies.

ilanit Appelfeld Correct. Say I’m a CTO I come for advice I’m a CTO I have a company I have ten employees I have a lot of technology being developed most of my budget goes to R&D we have a few patents pending and we have a lot of technology being developed what do I do.

Guy Levi First of all. I guess the first thing is when any employee coming in in order to reduce the company’s exposure to third party claims on trade secret misappropriation you have to ask the employees on their entrance to the company to sign a statement saying they have not brought one they have not taken any trade secrets from the previous company. That’s number one. Number two you have to you should I guess. Explain to the employees that during their employment they will be exposed to trade secrets and the company’s expectation is that while we will not stop you from moving should you want to. You have to understand that those are our trade secrets and we expect you not to take it with you either. And when you leave you’ll have them signed another statement saying I haven’t taken anything. Third thing is any processes within the with during employment. Any processes whether it’s a service company or a manufacturing company. As a manager of this thing. So whoever manages it should manage it in such a way that an employee could not be exposed to the whole process or to the whole service unless they absolutely need to be.

ilanit Appelfeld So. So, we create the trade secret.

Guy Levi We create the trade secret we um and we make sure that only those Only those parts they uh that they need to be exposed to because that’s part of the um part of the requirements of maintaining a trade secret legally.

ilanit Appelfeld Okay. Okay. Yes. So. The CTO. Who manages the team of developers? Here is about the termination of one of the employees a key developer. what do we do.

Guy Levi Well one thing is there’s two ways of doing this and that depends on the company policies ahead of time. For instance. Was it the company or was it um BYOD Bring Your Own Device. Or was it Don’t bring your own device. So, assuming it’s Bring Your Own Device then I cannot clean their device or take that device or anything like that so they’ll need to sign a statement saying I haven’t taken anything with me. Now all I have destroyed or I have wiped out anything that I did take. So, you have to get that because you have to establish a baseline for the employee moving out. That’s number one. Number two. I have to review. Employees activities to this point. You know those the wiping off of e-mails immediately as possible. And also review the process which this employee was exposed to and then see if the next employee that’s coming in. If they’re coming in at the same level make sure that they’ll be exposed exactly to the same material no more no less. Or actually less it is possible.

Guy Levi So you’re compartmentalizing each person’s influence on the whole process.

ilanit Appelfeld So as little as people as possible see the whole process. OK I think that’s an that’s an excellent strategy. I think that for companies choosing not to take the patent Road which happens a lot. I think the companies need to be aware of the human factor involved in misappropriation of trade secrets. And I saw a report of this cyber cybersecurity company saying that there is a feeling of ownership when it comes to top level employees ownership over the IP assets because they feel that you know they feel that they’re part of the company and part of their knowledge is used to creating that value for the company. So, when they leave they almost feel that is also theirs. It’s also theirs to use. So, what you’re saying makes a lot of sense in terms of the process. And I think that awareness is key in that area.

Guy Levi One other thing to remember when it comes to these kinds of Especially in very complex processes that involved a lot of software. They cannot they cannot be a situation in which only one person knows the whole process. Because then you’re open to challenges regarding whether or not this is a this was a trade secret there was not trade secret. So, for each and every process there has to be a group of people. Depends on the size obviously but two and about at least two that know the whole process one which is let’s say issue the document that says um this is our trade secrets that defines a trade secret and another one that says another person that can sign off on this and say Yeah I read this I understand this and yes this is a trade secret only once only once those two right sign off on that particular document. Does it become the company’s trade secret and then from that you can derive the processes that will keep it as such.

ilanit Appelfeld I think that the trade secret part is uh critical. My only addition to what you’re saying and I love to hear what you think about that. I feel that sometimes managers. Themselves feel that they have no right to exclude an employee from owning stuff that he created. I see that I’ve seen that in a couple of cases where they almost feel uncomfortable enforcing some policy that actually says to an employee which they work closely with. Yes. You created this for the company but no this is the company’s asset and I think that. Once the manager understands the difference between the trade secret and the know-how. Yes, I think it’ll become easy for everyone.

Guy Levi some companies have um an incentive program in place. And if you want we can discuss incentive programs but they have incentive programs for people who contribute to trade secrets just as they do for inventors of patents.

ilanit Appelfeld That’s a great idea. I think everyone should do that.

Guy Levi Well again there’s research after research after research that says that the notion which we also experience a lot of my paying their salary therefore they should feel they should feel committed to the good to the cause and invent for us. That is not always the case especially when it’s a fast-growing startup.

ilanit Appelfeld I guess it’s challenging to incentivize on an ongoing basis.

Guy Levi Exactly. But you see the thing is the thing is that companies need to understand the incentive program does not necessarily always mean money. I mean it’s not always financial it’s recognition it’s it is buy them a meal every now and again let’s give them some money to go and get a meal someplace uh mention them in some assembly or stuff like that. incentives do not necessarily need to be financial though work. But going back to the trade secret I think that will go a long way for managers to say look thank you very much. Here’s our incentive program you’re a part of it. We really appreciate what you’re doing. Um. But you have to understand that contribution to trade secrets are different than ownership. And we are the owner of that particular contribution to the intellectual property of the company.

ilanit Appelfeld Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s all we have time for today. So, thank you so much for coming today. Guy I really appreciate it. Um if you have any questions about my interview with Guy please write to us [email protected] go to our Web site. It’s been a real pleasure having you guy. And um see you soon.

Guy Levi Thank you.

The post IP Protection and Dumpster Diving first appeared on AppeIfeld&Co..

This episode was recorded in Hebrew. Ronen Chen, CEO of Albe and examiner in the Israeli Chief Scientist in the areas of machine learning and deep learning talks about his experience, insights and mistakes companies do when asking for funding.

The post Technology Pitching: The Biggest Mistakes (He) first appeared on AppeIfeld&Co..

Great advice from Olivia M. Gonzalez, Brand Messaging and Development Strategist. Olivia talks about the human element that should go into the branding of every product.  This is a must-listen for anyone who is thinking about branding and filing trademarks.

Olivia M. Gonzalez I’m doing wonderfully well. How are you?

ilanit Appelfeld Excellent. Thank you. We are here in Shenkar Center of innovation today, which is a part of Shenkar College is a well known for its design, art and fashion department. So we’re excited to be here. No better location to talk about branding and messaging. So, we’re going to hear about Brand story and messaging and story development, I’m really glad that you’re here.

Olivia M. Gonzalez I’m happy to be here.

ilanit Appelfeld Absolutely. You help organizations shape their brand stories to engage with their audiences. You have previously worked with TGI Fridays, which is great because I love that restaurant.

Olivia M. Gonzalez That’s a great place. They are a lot of fun.

ilanit Appelfeld I remember waiting for Friday so we could go out in London to TGI Fridays.

Olivia M. Gonzalez They’re the best. They really are.

ilanit Appelfeld They actually waited for Friday to go there, which is a little strange because I’m sure the messages that come every day.

Olivia M. Gonzalez It’s Friday. It’s always Friday and they’re at Fridays.

ilanit Appelfeld I don’t miss that.

ilanit Appelfeld OK. So let’s dive into our questions. Tell us a bit about yourself, Olivia, I mean, I’ll tell you our clients usually come in to protect their brands, and we always feel that we don’t want to be disconnected from the process itself. Because, when the protection resonates with the underlying story, it’s always much better. So people like you fascinate me. Well, they know what to do. What, I don’t know how to do. I only get the feeling when branding happens. That it needs some more work before it’s protected. So I think that’s the space I would like to talk to you today about.

Olivia M. Gonzalez OK, great.

ilanit Appelfeld So I guess it would be good to hear a bit about your experience. How do you work? How does the process start? What do you do?

Olivia M. Gonzalez Absolutely. Well, my first order of business is always to take a deep dive into the business of my clients through their story. So when a client books a strategy session with me, what they’ll do is, they’ll fill out an intake form. And that intake form really walks them through every single aspect of their brand story from the creative inception of their brand all the way to where they are now. The ideas and the reason why I want to do this is because I’m looking for a few specific things. I’m looking for the “Why” behind their business, why did they start their company to begin with? And who exactly is their target audience? Who were they trying to reach? And on top of that, what problem are they trying to solve for their target audience? That’s really, really important. And next thing is, especially when if I’m working with a technology company or a food industry or an innovation company, I want to know where is that human connection? Because that’s critical when we’re talking about developing a brand story. And then the final thing, as I do an analysis of everything that they’ve kind of uploaded or during our discussion is how can I build that bridge between their unique aspects or the elements of their particular brand story with that human element in order to create a reason for your audience to engage with you, because that’s really what we’re looking for. So no matter where you are on the spectrum of industry or business, those elements will always come into play. Why you build your brand, who you’re building it for. What problem are you trying to solve? Where’s that human connection and how can I make that bridge so that we create that automatic connection between your audience and your business? So that’s really kind of a high level overview of what you can expect if you book a strategy session with me or if I’m working with you one on one as a client with a corporate organization as well.

ilanit Appelfeld So let’s let’s suppose I am a client. I have my technology, I’m thinking of a name. OK. That’s our world. Is the brand or the name or the trademark The end of the process. Or is it the beginning uses a starting point? Or will you just keep an open mind?

Olivia M. Gonzalez I think you have to keep an open mind. And the reason is, is that, you know, we talk about what is a great way. Right. What’s the direction that you need to go through in order to select something to move forward? First of all, you need to know who you are. That’s first and foremost. You need to know who you serve. Again, it goes back to those original questions that I kind of look when I take the deep dive. But when you talk about what problem you’re trying to solve, all of those things play into a brand name. They play into what you want to communicate to your audience. What’s critically important is, as you are thinking about your brand name, you’re thinking about your brand. You have to understand that there is a lot of psychology behind the building of brands. There’s psychology behind the colors. There’s psychology behind the naming your brand position. There are a lot of archetypes when you build your brand. And I know it can sound overwhelming to kind of put it that way, but just break it down a little bit and have a better understanding going into the process as to what you’re looking for. And again, know who you are and that you have to understand and identify that you do solve a specific problem. And sometimes we have a lot of multi passionate, you know, areas, especially like technology can solve so many issues, so many problems across the board. But what are you good at? What problem can you solve? First and foremost, what can you hone in on and then identify that and then understand your audience, this problem that you’re solving. You have to learn to speak their language a little bit. You have to understand what are they searching for when they go to Google, when they go to look in their social media and they’re trying to find an answer. What questions are they asking? You know, just like Google prompts, right, whenever you type in the question that you’re about to ask. That’s how you have to be thinking. What are the questions that people are prompting in order for you to develop a brand name? Especially if you think about SEO and you think about how your brand name is going to come up based on what people are searching for. So you really have while it’s fun, the colors and the names and everything is a very creative part of the process and very enjoyable. There’s a method to the madness in psychology. When you think about the brand colors, for instance, maybe you will find very frequently in technology or even in banking institutions, because that is representative of trust. That’s representative of someone who you can trust – honesty. Red is very bold. You think of big international brands like Coca-Cola, who’s really out there in bold and you know, and big. When you think about yellow, you think about positivity, happy, fun energy. So if you have a splash of yellow in your branding colors, that may mean that you’re taking a positive spin on something or perhaps you don’t take everything so quite so seriously. But there’s something a little more positive. But do you see all the different colors and there’s, you know, endless right information that you can find on the Internet about that type of branding. Just map out those keywords that you hear your audience speaking that you would identify when you’re looking to problem solve and then do a little research with regard to the psychology of the colors that you’re using, as well as don’t get so creative that in your name or in your branding that your audience can’t tell who you are or what you do. And if you want to have something unique, you know, if you want to have something unique that pulls together, have a sub header if you have something for me, mine is pretty direct OMG brand story. So OMG are my initials and I was very fortunate in that we can think my husband for the G at the end of my name for OMG. He completed it and brand’s story is what I do under the umbrella of brand story. I have a lot of strategic ways that I work with organizations on building their culture and engagement, messaging their internal messaging and communications, strategic, you know, communications with regard to leadership and brand positioning. But they all fall under that umbrella. So think of it that way. What’s your biggest promise? What is the thing that you are really, really an expert at when you lock, lock in there, identify what those things are, and then work your way there? People, once they get to know your brand and get to identify with your brand, then they’ll ask questions and then you’ll be able to kind of lead them into the other section of your business. But first and foremost, when you’re thinking about choosing that brand name, that definitely is kind of you want to make sure and develop your business. Of course, that’s the focus. You don’t want focus the whole thing on the brand name. You want to be purposeful and intentional in the names that you choose.

ilanit Appelfeld OK. So do I need to have my avatar in place? I mean, I know all my other theories and my branding. And you have this I sense a catch 22 situation. If I’m just starting out with questions that I don’t know how to answer, I don’t necessarily know who I am to begin with because it’ll take some trials now. So what is the ideal time to, you know, to consult with a specialist to start, filing for trademarks? Because at the end of the day, you need to test your market. You need to see what you’re good at. You need to focus on. So, What from your experience, is the best time?

Olivia M. Gonzalez That’s a great, great observation. You have to have an audience first before you can trademark a brand name. People get caught up. I need a business card. I need a Website. I need this and that. You know what? My name’s Olivia M. Gonzalez. This is how I can help you. These are the problems I can solve for you. Let’s work together. I’m going to build my strategy based on how I’m helping you as an independent individual. I can set up a business bank account way before I do anything else and get all of those things in order. On the business financial aspect, so that I’m, you know, set up financially and legally without doing the huge trademark things and the branding and things of that nature. Until to your point, I know my market. I understand what they need from me. And at that point I can then build. You are intentionally building solid stepping stones toward a successful business, because without a solid foundation, I can send I can hand out business cards all day long. But if I cannot deliver on my promise. I have nothing. I have nothing. And it doesn’t matter, you know.

ilanit Appelfeld So what would you say is the most common mistake that you see companies doing branding, I mean, is it usually around timing or is it going all over the place with a message?

Olivia M. Gonzalez Sometimes. Sometimes it is around timing because they’ll do things like promote, promote, promote and then launch something that collapses because they didn’t spend enough time on the back end of their technology. On the user facing testing on the focus groups in that particular area and they do a lot of marketing is just, you know, they can explode on the marketing scene. And then once they’re there, the question is, can they perform? Can they deliver? And so a great mentor of mine, who I love and adore. Nicole Walters always says functional, not fancy, because ultimately you can build the fancy around the functional if your product works. If you have worked out all of the back end issues that you need to tweak or make adjustments with, whether it’s in programing, whether it’s in user facing so that it’s user friendly where there’s, you know, three clicks or less things of that nature ironed those things out first and then you can promote and get into that space because think about all of the individuals who maybe were rushed into or launched into the stratosphere and did not have structure. They were not structurally sound. So building that map, identifying, you know, and knowing exactly what it is that you need to include in your in in the elements of your brand story. So when you talk about those common mistakes, lots of times companies will focus on the bells and whistles again, the marketing piece of it all the bells and whistles of it all and disregard the human element, the human connection. They’ll disregard the fact that they have to actually work. When somebody goes to your programmer, uploads your app or, you know, whatever the case may be, it has to work. Those things have to work. And so the common mistakes are A, they move too fast into the marketing arena before they actually have established a strong foundation. And B, they forget about the human element because ultimately that’s what it’s all about. I talk really in a lot of detail, my online courses, the brand magic map online course where I go through all of the different elements that need to be built within a brand story. And what’s funny is a lot of the stuff that you’re going that when you go into you’re thinking, I need to talk about, you know, who we are and, you know, how many, you know, shades of color we have and how many buttons we can push and how many what a win is when really and truly all of the greatest companies in the world have one thing in common. They’re all different with regard to their unique stories, their backgrounds. But every single successful company in the world has one thing in common, and that is the human element that’s interwoven throughout their brand story. And that’s the connecting factor. So as much as we are into whether it’s technology or food tech or maybe it’s app building or maybe it’s, you know, financial, you know, security or maybe, you know, it’s as any sort of those things. Those are amazing elements that solve problems for human beings. So tell me why it’s going to make me feel safe. Tell me why it’s going to make me feel better about trusting you with my information about trusting you with my restaurant business, without trusting you with my app.

ilanit Appelfeld Thinking about my clients. Most of them are startup companies. And let’s talk about technology, because I see what you’re saying about the human connection. But when you have a SAAS product But where do you so is when you have excess product, when you run your sitting, when you’re a start-up that you want to get to investors.

ilanit Appelfeld Right. You need to you need to get over your survival mode. You’re not in the market. I understand what you’re saying completely. But I’m asking, you know what? If we say, you know, we think this is ready, you is the richest third. It hasn’t. Right. What are it’s looking for investors. It has a business plan. It has developed. And then we don’t know what the end product is going to be like. And we need a good brand because without it, good run. I mean, of course, we’re not going to spend any money on one on branding or infringing on trademarks. But a lot of the companies have their branding in place very early on. I don’t have any I mean, I’ll tell you what, you said something the prison resonates with me. You said. You know, you can’t have the name being totally unconnected from what you’re doing because it can be very fanciful. We can invest a lot of money on marketing, but the people that people don’t know. Yeah. Oh, I always tell them I’m trying to not think of suggestive names.

Olivia M. Gonzalez Yeah. You wanted to play with words? Absolutely. Play with words. And that’s another thing to know when talking about those list of keywords, the things that suggest what you do and connects to what you’d list. You listed a lot of wonderful things when you’re talking about startups and what they have and they’ve got their business plan and they have their, you know, their brands set up and all of those things. My question is, it does not matter what is. You asked me earlier about the common mistake and what you’re mapping out right now is a perfect example of the one thing that is left out of all of those things is what problem are you solving for me? What problem are you solving for me? And why aren’t we focused on that? Because that’s actually where the attraction is. That’s where the engagement is going to be. People don’t people want to know the. Have you ever heard of it’s called WIIFM? It’s W I I F M what’s in it for me. All right. What. What’s in it for me. And they call it’s a very common kind of business strategy kind of term with a you get all of this stuff exactly what you just said. You’ve mapped it out. You have the brand strategy. You’ve got a brand name. You’re talking about your avatar. And I guess. And I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been in a corporate conference boardroom and they go through the whole presentation and someone will say WIIFM, what’s in it for me?

ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Olivia M. Gonzalez Because that’s what we want to know. That is the. But that’s why I talk about the human element so much. You’re absolutely right. They need investors. Sure they do. Guess what? investors are human beings. They need to know the bottom line. They also have needs. And yes, they need to have products that are going to have ROI, half that return on investment for them. Absolutely. That is no doubt at all whatsoever. The business plan. You need to be structurally sound. Absolutely. The brand name, when you’re starting to do brand messaging and and branding, you need to have something that’s relatable, that’s identifiable, that is unique and outside of the sea of sameness. Because a lot of people you’ll see, you know, you have to do your research, have some alignment with the psychology of your colors, the psychology of your fonts, for Pete’s sake. There’s all sorts of things that happen there as well. That with regard to like why you use the fonts that you use, some of them are more formal. Some of the more casual. Some of them are more technology driven. You have to be able to identify those things, but you also have to be accessible to your avatar, accessible to the individuals who need to use your product. So you’re correct. All these brands, startups, your clients specifically, they may have those things. And I will say this brands change right with the times. We have to understand that you’re going to have to be flexible as well. That’s very important, I think, to communicate with your branding and your brand name. And I’ll give you a perfect example. When I first started out individually, I started out as an independent contractor under my own name, just Olivia M. Gonzalez, because that a that’s the easiest thing to do. That’s how you get into networking. That’s how you get into the space and get people to know who you are and associate your name. And then I developed OMG brand story because that was the focus after I had done my work with my focus groups, my marketing groups. I did analysis with the direction of what exactly do I want to offer as the umbrella product and then work up everything else underneath that. And OMG brand story fit the bill. It fit if it who I am, what I do and what my expertise is. And so after I did that, you know, then we start building at that point. But every single part of the process was, how am I helping you? How am I helping you? What is the problem that I’m solving for you? I’m helping you identify the unique qualities in your brand stories in order to drive connection, in order to reinforce your company culture and in order to have profitability increased because of the connection between you and your audience.

ilanit Appelfeld It all comes back to the human factor then.

Olivia M. Gonzalez Yes. Yes, without a doubt. And that’s so difficult, especially in the technology arena, in the technology space. It’s very, very difficult, I think, because we’re so excited about the technology and about the wonderful things and the aspects in all areas that we soon we get really, really captivated with. You know, I’m going to go back to the bells and whistles. Right. Piece of things. But ultimately, I want to know, what do I get out of this? What’s in it for me?

Olivia M. Gonzalez So when you go back to that human element, you know, while every brand story, you know, is really unique. We talked about a little bit earlier that one human element I want to make an example. I want to give you give me example.

Olivia M. Gonzalez Even the brand stories of global icons, if you think about Toyota, they all have human elements. You know, Toyota was created basically by a son who wanted to make looming easier for his mom. That’s how Toyota started. So the focus is not the sleek car that’s going to be auto pilot in the future and have these new sleek using them in Japan where it’s like a single seater that kind of auto pilots and you can drive and navigate through the, you know, all of these new things that are coming out. That’s not where their story started. It’s built on a very solid foundation of a story about a son who just wanted to make work easier for his mom. And it and years, you know, hundred plus years or 60 plus. Well, in USA, 60 plus. But hundreds of us in Japan. Those things matter. Those things matter. If you think about Coca-Cola and the huge global international icon that it is, you know, had started, a pharmacist was curious about creating a differently flavored soda for the soda fountains where he was where he was working. So that’s what you have to remember. I love that we are so far advanced. But I want to also say that another huge person that I would actually share with your audience. Her name is Jen Kamm, who is also a brand strategist as well. She’s talking a lot recently about this analog revolution is kind of what she calls it. And it’s true. This is something that and I’ve said this in a couple of other interviews that I’ve had as well, is that I’ve always said she’s on point when she calls it the analog revolution. And I think that’s something that’s relatable to your technology clients and something that they could, you know, focus on, is that there must be a more basic with your mind being more basic with message and gulp.

Olivia M. Gonzalez And basically storytelling is having at a like a renaissance period. It’s coming back. It’s, you know, storytelling was, you know, forgotten about for a really long time. And businesses are realizing now, oh, we went so far away. We use marketing and so, so far away from the human element and that human connection that we are now no longer storytelling. We’re just pitching and pitching. And, you know, pitching doesn’t do. Yeah. So it’s. Matter of going back a little bit and understanding that we’ve got to talk about those stories, we’ve got to talk about those human elements and the basics of your stories, how you crafted your story. Again, why behind your business? Why did you start? Why did you. Something happened. Something happened. You have a personal story too Ilanit. I know you do. And I have one, too. Why did we start our businesses? What was the behind the scenes something that catapulted us into the areas that we are experts in now? People want to know.

ilanit Appelfeld Connect your “why” to the Story, connect your why to the message?

Olivia M. Gonzalez Yes.

ilanit Appelfeld Connect your why to the brand. but you are saying: look at the level of awareness of your customer/client.

Olivia M. Gonzalez Their language, your language.

ilanit Appelfeld They’re in a different place. You don’t get to the place. You’re never going to be able to communicate with them.

Olivia M. Gonzalez I go back to the whole idea about. Think about your person and what are they looking for on the Internet? What are they typing in? Think about that.

Olivia M. Gonzalez What are they typing in on that Google bar that they’re looking for? They need to find you. And if you think about it that way, they’re certainly not typing in 10, five fastest. You know what they’re looking for? Problem solving for my business. I need my computer to move at a rapid pace for the intake of orders that it’s receiving at this time. And I don’t know how to anticipate or I need to anticipate, you know, my marketplace. How do I do that? I need to protect my trademark that my ideation, my trade. But how do I do that? I need things like that where you have to think about your audience and what are they typing into that search bar? That’s how you’re going to get to the space of the mess. The type of messaging that’s going to resonate with your audience.

ilanit Appelfeld OK. Excellent. So I’m wrapping it up. I think that for me and what I’m taking from this interview, which is an eye opener, is that it all comes down to seeing who your market is understanding what their level of awareness is. Next thing into your story. Being authentic about your “why”. Packing it up and protecting it when you’re ready.

Olivia M. Gonzalez That’s right. Because that’s huge as well. Protecting who you are. You know, we talk about protect the asset. Protecting your value. It’s your ideas. It’s who you are. Once you have that aligned and in place and you know that you’re about to launch into the new level of your business, you have to protect yourself. Those are things that are absolutely necessary because you have to understand, you know, yeah it’s critical.

ilanit Appelfeld Greg, where I’m concerned is we know the trademark of the both and plus forever. Yeah, love it. You know, that’s why Apple is. Everything. You know, she you brought it right. Everything to the trademark world and even the trademark wonder on your store, on the design of their store. Yes. Well, once you get into the trademark for the human.

ilanit Appelfeld It is such a beautiful protection technology. And, you know, one of my mission, my points thinking, you know, think that one of, you know, the trademark side because trademark is going to last forever.

Olivia M. Gonzalez That’s exactly right. And I want to say, you said they trademark the Apple store. You’d think trademark that the Apple store and the way that it’s laid out because of the why they do it, because they’re, you know, that the value, their value, their worth is in how they feed people to the front, how it’s set up visually, the experience you’re protecting, the experience of your audience as well. Once you have those things mapped out, so do your research exactly like you said with the human element, understand exactly what it is that you have to offer and then protect it. That’s really important.

ilanit Appelfeld By the way, what’s Apple said in that judgment? Germany was that they see their store as a part of their packaging.

Olivia M. Gonzalez Yes. It really is. It’s something to think about. And I can’t tell you. Take deep dives into these huge global icons and get a better understanding of why they do what they do because they’re geniuses. You know, they didn’t forget about the human element. They tell their story very well. They grow. They’re very innovative. You have to grow with your you know, your clients. There’s a huge there’s a lot of, you know, brand takeaways that you can you can grab from doing a little research from them. And I do talk about that, by the way, a little bit on my online courses as well about those brand takeaways. So I loved this has been a wonderful conversation with you. I’ve enjoyed it very, very much.

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The impossible story of Rilbite’s founder Barak Melamed who developed a healthy vegan substitute for minced meat.

This episode is about how a company completes two impressive rounds of financing with trade secret protection as its IP strategy.

This is Impressive and exciting for two reasons. First because no other company has managed to come up with anything like Rilbite’s 6 ingredients formula. Second – while the competition is busy filing patents, Rilbite has not only realized that trade secret is the best strategy to protect that technology, but also managed to convince its investors that trade secrets was the way to go.

ilanit Hi Barak.

Barak Hi Ilanit.

ilanit Thank you for coming.

Barak Thanks for inviting me.

ilanit Today’s episode is about trade secrets and I could not think of a better example for listeners than Rilbite because Rilbite, is a huge success and it’s about food and when we talk about food there’s a lot of trade secrets. So what is Rilbite?.

Barak That’s a good question. And you know the funny thing is when you when you work on a company and you have a product or at least an idea for a product and you think you know what what the what the brand is what the product is but actually it’s it’s a little bit more complicated. Reminds me a bit of what they thought Facebook is, but as long as they went forward on and on and and they saw it’s successful they didn’t actually understand what it is. So I think it’s about what. About a year since we became an ltd company and about three years since I first thought about the product itself. That only now I think I know what Rilbite is. So I’ll start with a basic. The product is minced plants. It is the equivalent to minced beef,  but the beauty of it is that it’s only made of plants directly from plants fresh plants and just simple ingredients.

ilanit And it’s gluten-free, right ?.

Barak It is. It’s gluten-free.

ilanit which is Amazing.

Barak Yeah. It’s only simple ingredients which means just rice, tomatoes. onions lentils soy or pea and simple spices basically that’s it. So it’s a very simple ingredient list what we call clean label in the food tech industry or the food industry.

ilanit Which is the place to be.

Barak Which is. Yeah absolutely. Today you want to be in the clean-label food category.

ilanit OK. So most interesting question how did you think about how did it happen.

Barak I think they you know like mostly like all the best stories it has to do directly with what you are and who were who you are on a daily basis and basically at the time I was sick I was ill. Most of the time I had terrible headaches and I slept bad and well when I did sleep and digestion problems like everything and going to the doctors and blood tests and all those things came back fine. I was great. You know the patients find but he’s dead. And so I thought well the only thing I can I can do is start to eliminate. So I thought about everything that has to do about my life the way that I sleep. So I changed the mattress I you know I checked the few mattresses and the way that the body should be on it. I changed my insoles. Maybe I’m walking wrong the way I breathe. Just about everything and I kept food for last because food is just you know it’s just stuff. There’s so much to do. It’s just too much work and which it eventually became a lot of many years of work.

Barak So I open up an excel sheet and I put in everything that I ate, what time I ate and also when the food left my body and what time that happened etc.

ilanit Wow this is serious stuff.

Barak It was serious serious stuff and eventually came up to meat doesn’t agree with me parsley doesn’t agree with me. And basically, I went to the supermarket and I knew that I should eat a certain amount of protein and certain amount of etc….

Barak So I picked up the things that were on the shelves and I brought back home and I put it on the micro or pan whatever and it was it was terrible and it tasted terrible and that was you know a point in time that it’s it’s a life changer. I went to my wife and I told her. So listen I had goose bumps saying it. I have no idea why I told I don’t know what we’re gonna do but we are changing our entire diet and don’t ask me what or how but you know everything has to change completely.

ilanit Beautiful.

Barak and she said typical to my wife very very calm and smooth. OK but I want a burger.

Barak That was that and obviously my wife asks for something my wife gets. So I open up I opened up the Internet and I started flipping pages in what exactly the body needs. And and that’s the interesting part. I didn’t go for I need to make a burger for my wife that would emulate beef but I wanted something that would you know first answer my needs which is health and then would you know.

Ilanit Be tasty.

Barak Yeah. Be tasty and it’ll satisfy her. So, I start from the ground up designing the product from nutritional values. That’s what I cared about looking on the back of products that I bought from the supermarket. I couldn’t understand anything.

Barak It was it was methyl cellulose, cellulose that, sugars sugars sugars fats Fats Fats. It was just I couldn’t get where the food was.

Ilanit Welcome to my world.

Barak Yeah so. So that’s what I understood that I didn’t want to do. I wanted to do something that was very simple very you know something that someone anyone from the street would just look at at the back and would say Oh I know these foods.

Ilanit  Digestible.

Barak Yeah.

ilanit Understandable wise.

Barak  simple.  unprocessed if can if possible, as little processes as possible keeping all the vitamins or the micronutrients which very little people the industry barely discusses the micronutrients in the ingredients.

Barak And yeah I’m bout three years later and the thousand patties. At least she took a bite and she said this is good. What is it and that was the product. The product was a clean label religiously idealistic of making a healthy product that potentially could change the entire food industry.

Ilanit Unbelievable. I tasted it myself. So I know that.

Barak And you tried to reverse engineering as well.

ilanit Of course my family tasted it. My kids love it. They’re waiting for it to be mass produced because. They’re upset that it’s not in the freezer. And it’s so it’s unbelievably tasty. And fast forward one year later. And you’re looking at second investment round and there is a lot of hype and excitement around the product. And it’s it’s amazingly secret still because no one except you knows about the formula and the process. Which is I think is a huge achievement. Tell us  tell us about that. I mean you’ve been to the investment round. You’ve met with the investors. Obviously they’ve tasted the product. They loved it. You demonstrated how easy it was to prepare it. And did they ask you what’s the secret.

Barak Yeah, of course, sure.

Ilanit I mean how. I mean sure they need it. They sold a product but they actually were investing without the due diligence of knowing what the process was.

Barak That’s right. Yeah. Well the first thing that comes up to mind is when the anyone investors or you know regular people when they look at the ingredient list they say well this is really simple. I mean there’s nothing in here. What. How does it work. So it has to be probably something silly or something you know something obvious but it’s not. It is an entire unique process of preproduction of the ingredients themselves. We’re not going into RNA DNA or anything.

Ilanit I’ll tell you what. I was vegan. I tried making my own patties without eggs without bread. It doesn’t stick.

Barak Yeah that’s why.

Ilanit I tried.

Barak Yeah. You know that’s the beauty of it going into nutritional values you’re looking into designing a product in a completely different way. You’re not trying to imitate from the end and then building it. You know you were thinking well I need eggs and I need this to bind this and that.

Ilanit your are looking bottom up and not….

Barak I wasn’t looking at that I was looking first with the nutritional values and the funny thing is that when I looked at it it just happened. I mean it took me hundreds of trials but it did happen and when investors took a look and tasted the product. They loved it and they said well take us through the process will sign an NDA and obviously I said no that’s not going to happen because unlike with with tech food when you show someone a product that anyone can produce at home and they haven’t invested it’s just an NDA and it’s like a magic. You know it’s like a magical it’s a magician. It’s either you want to be a magician.

ilanit Right.

Barak And then you’re going into it or you just want to know what the trick is just to satisfy that emotion. So I’m up for if you want to be a magician join you know join the school join the group and then we can talk about letting you a few tips but that’s not about it. It’s about what I think what’s most important for investors is. How are you going to protect the IP is it even. Is it protectable and I think it is.

ilanit Absolutely.

Barak Yeah. You know basically at the moment we’re are a trade secret. Trade secret.

Ilanit Yes.

Barak Classical Coca-Cola.

Ilanit Right.

Barak and what we’ve done to satisfy those investor’s needs is basically brainstorming and doing a lot of a lot of thinking and redesigning. But what we did, essentially, I started in my home kitchen so I took all sorts of different appliances pro appliances that I have because I’ve been in the kitchen since the age of 6. So I have a lot of stuff and what we did is create a black box and put a lot of those well redesigned large scale into industry appliances and we put them we put them in the box and then the the entire process is a plug and play. You just feed the box with the ingredients. You press start and two hours later voila you have a product.

ilanit This is metaphorically, right?

Barak No. That’s actually what it is we’re even thinking about painting the box black.

Ilanit OK wait hold on. I’m taking a step back. The investors want to see OK. They know there is a trade secret. They understand the process is unique. They understand the product because they’ve actually tasted it and they loved it and they said OK we’re happy for you to tell us there’s a trade secret. We’re happy for the trade secret to know that the trade secret is kept somewhere. And now we need to feel comfortable that there is a process and it’s there right.

Barak That’s right.

Ilanit In the proccess you’re translating it into a black box or things happen inside this black box.

Barak That’s right.

Ilanit And that’s where everything is mixed up the process the magic happens. You know. And as an investor I don’t care what the magic is. But I know that it’s there and I know that my rights are protected.

Barak That’s right.

Ilanit And I know that Rilbite is able. Looking forward to keep that trade secret.

Barak And even duplicate and make even a larger scale. So. So yeah. So in that respect investors are happy and the process you discover you’ve described is hands on.

Barak Another thing that they wanted you know just to satisfy that curiosity is just you know what. Then don’t tell us exactly the process but what what what. You know whatever you can say say so. So I think you know if you have a basic like some sort of a focused tagline that explains in a nutshell what it is that you’re doing that satisfies that that you know that offers satisfaction to the investors or listeners or whoever that is.

Barak Otherwise if you’re if you’re being too hashable and everything is you know you’re not willing to discuss anything.   Then then you’re not going to get anywhere.  You have to you have to expose something. It doesn’t have to be you know the core.

Ilanit  give them something.

Barak You have to give them something. Absolutely. And if you’re. And then if if if you can’t put up if you can write a patent on it then you can do what I did. So the black box was finally you know the final nail in that coffin in which we’ve we were able to give them what they wanted.

Ilanit Excellent. And we know that it works because there is a second round of investment.

Barak We call preferred seed. We’re looking at round a in about four months. We’ve had our seed with the Strauss’s the kitchen. And then about six months later we just finished our preferred seed round where we raised one point five million dollars from an angel and Strauss’s group the Strauss group. And in about.

Ilanit Really excited.

Barak Yeah. Very exciting. It’s a lot of it shows faith. You know Strauss started with the kitchen and the whole innovation plan program that they have and then they said well a Rilbite is very interesting to us and we’re going to go forward and invest. And in about four months five months we’re looking at around a which would be extremely. Exciting.

Ilanit It’s exciting.

Barak yeah.

Ilanit I can just imagine. You mentioned patents. I can just imagine the nightmare of filing a patent for this.

Barak for food oh Yeah. Tell me about it.

Ilanit It is. It is literally a nightmare filing patents for food tech. I mean unless you take a certain substance and say OK out of 100 percent of my trade secret I can patent this small process which I know is inventive. I know I know I can’t.  I can’t congratulate you enough on the decision not to file a patent because there’s no upside to it.

Barak At the moment at the moment.

ilanit Right.

Barak Because the the black the black box does bring new a completely new design and approach to food preparation. It’s something that just does not exist in the industry today so we probably will eventually.

Ilanit But that’s different.

Barak Yes.  yeah.

Ilanit The actual process.

Barak Yeah.

Ilanit Recipe.

Barak That’s right.

Ilanit I’m sure they will be solid intellectual property down the line. But I think that you did extremely well with the IP so far.

Barak Thank you.

Ilanit I mean the Rilbite is already a trademark filed a trademark in the U.S. and in Europe.

Barak Yeah.

Ilanit I think that China will join the list soon. Because the Chinese are awful we trademark.

Barak Oh yeah.

Ilanit And I think that speaking of managing the trade secret I think the place to be is that when real bite has 20 and then 40 employees they’re all going to be somehow exposed to parts of the process and I think that the secret here is to expose whoever is working on the manufacturing process only to the to the extent that they need to know what they need to know in the black box that they would need to know a minimum.

Barak That’s right.

Ilanit Which is amazing because this is how the trade secrets could be sustained.

Barak Anyone on the floor on the production floor wouldn’t know anything that’s going on other than which ingredients they put in which is you know fine by the way who will find that’s great. Every anyone should see that we’re using only fresh or you know raw ingredients. But in terms of the actual process yeah. They won’t be exposed.

Ilanit Right. Because the secret is not the ingredients. It’s the actual process.

Barak Absolutely.

Ilanit We know that Kentucky Fried Chicken has their breadcrumb makes process. They divided into two separate companies where they mix it separately.

Barak yeah.

Ilanit we know that Coca-Cola has a process where every chain of the.

Barak It’S essentially just a bottling company.

Ilanit It’s a bottling they have the syrup they have the mixing they have….

Barak We are going there. We are definitely going there we’re thinking about getting. Eventually, after we finish our first pilot on the black box we’re going to make it larger and then we’ll be able to just chip black boxes to co-producers co-manufacturers around the world that already have the CapEx that they need in order to produce so they have the freezing. You know the freezing capacity they have the the the burger form machines or you know schnitzel or kababs or hotdogs or whatever. And but they lack the technology of the pre-processing. So that basically we’re definitely thinking about taking Coca Cola’s steps and doing the same.

Ilanit Excellent That’s the way to go.

Barak Yep.

Ilanit Yeah. Another thing that I think that you’ve done really well is encapsulated the message into the product and I’ve the reason it resonates with me because the podcast name is protecting your value. And I’ve been thinking ages about you know what the title is and how the title reflects my mission. So I know how difficult it is to.

Barak crazy. It’s crazy.

Ilanit create that message.

Barak Very very difficult.

Ilanit Tell us about that I mean how was it for Rilbite.

Barak Well like I said in the beginning of the podcast it took about four years of understanding how what is it because it’s a great tasting product. It’s a clean label product. But you know an important point to say is that we’re not vegan or it’s on a vegan company. We’re not looking to replace meat you know it is a tasty product. And eventually people could be horrified by how it’s produced, but when you put it in your mouth what can you do. People love eating meat. People love eating cheese milk et cetera so we’re not we’re not looking to replace we’re here to offer a wonderful alternative made out of plants.

Ilanit Which is tasty.

Barak Which is tasty and healthy to you. But we couldn’t put it in a line. I mean what. You know it’s six ingredients but people don’t understand is that not everybody knows that. A short short label is a better product for them. I mean do they care.  They don’t know.

Ilanit we know that a lot of vegans just eat a lot of bread.

Barak That’s right.

Ilanit potatoes.

Barak Yeah yeah yeah. I mean you take a look at the ingredient list of some of you know most. Popular brands out there today it’s 30 ingredients 40 ingredients of processed triggers fats you know etc… and how do you explain to the mass market that our product is a better product and it took us time and eventually actually because of a lot of the conventions and fairs that we attend. I guess that’s part of the catalyst that made us understand what Rilbite is and nd a lot to do also with the competition the UVP your unique value proposition comes from what it is that you do best what it is that your competition does and what the customer needs.

Barak So, everybody, has the burger crave and it’s a guilty pleasure getting eating burgers with all that fat and you know you crunch the bun with everything in it and it slides in drips and all those things that’s that’s guilty pleasure you can’t eat a burger every day you shouldn’t eat a burger every day especially because what a burger is made out of if it’s meat then it has way too much fat and cholesterol if it’s plant-based then again.

Ilanit It may not be tasty.

Barak It may not be tasty but if even if it is its candy food it’s candy you can’t eat it every day it’s two hundred and forty calories with an abundant 30 percent of fat and sugars and it’s just it’s not healthy for you it might be tasty it’s not healthy. So you have a lot of guilty pleasure and that’s what that’s the beauty of it Rilbite is the food you crave guilt-free you can eat real bite every day you can eat will buy twice or three times a day. It’s only 120 calories and it is so damn tasty.

Ilanit Amazing. I think the competition is impossible Burgur impossible foods?.

Barak Impossible Foods beyond a lot of major companies Nestlé just came up with with their own brand that McDonald’s is now serving in some selected countries but all of them are using basically the same approach. We want to imitate beef as much as we can and we don’t really care what it is that we put it in the product.

Ilanit Which is why they have like 50 ingredients inside their burger.

Barak Yeah between 30 to 40. You know they have a beauty something so something called natural spices or something like that which is nothing but natural. All right. They have all those methylcelluloses and processed the sugars.

Ilanit You don’t even know how to pronounce it.

Barak Yeah exactly and one other thing that we’ve excelled in being sustainable is first of all when you use fresh ingredients then you don’t need to supply. You don’t need that the whole supply chain of farm to another processing plants to another distributor etc. We’re just taking the raw material as-is fresh or frozen because of kosher issues. But because we’re using the raw materials we don’t add any water into our process there is no water.

Ilanit is that a big deal not to have water excuse my….

Barak you know what. Absolutely because 70 percent of the world’s population suffers at least one month of water scarcity per year. This is not some sort of a lost village in the Amazon. We’re talking about. But you know here in Israel Tel Aviv Jerusalem in California the United States in Japan in China anywhere in the world Africa. Not to mention South Africa with huge issues of water. Water is a huge huge problem that we can’t seem to figure out because there are just so many you know so many needs. We need water everywhere. Yes. So when you use fresh materials like onions like tomatoes there’s just so much water in it. Why use dehydrated onions. That’s because it’s it’s the old industry approach. So we’re taking the entire the entire product. We are a zero-waste plant. We’re using everything in the process. And yeah.

Ilanit Anyone listening to this episode you should go to Rilbite.com. You see the pictures and the videos and and I promise you one thing you’re going to want to do is taste this burger because it doesn’t look like anything healthy.

Barak Yeah but that’s important. Yeah it doesn’t look like anything healthy but it is it’s important to say that we’re not just making a burger right. Our minced product our minced plants is one to one switch ratio for minced meat beef. So you can make your own meatballs or put it you know just

Ilanit Bite sizes to the listeners..  when they are looking at it, you can actually make your own burger or minced or…

Barak Bolognese or stuffed or steamed or grill or anything that you can think of. You have a recipe of a great old grandmother from 100 years ago. I don’t know.

ilanit Right. Which is what I did. By the way. Yeah. I just took a very ancient Iraqi recipe I used Rilbite and it was amazing.

Barak Yeah the switches is simple.

Ilanit Excellent. Barak thanks for coming.

Barak Thank you.

Ilanit It’s been a pleasure to have you here. I think that. The amazing thing about our conversation is that could be translated to other types of innovation we see we see companies struggling to keep their intellectual property sometimes filing patents where they shouldn’t. Sometimes not being aware that they have so many trade secrets in-house. I mean in Rilbite I think it’s very apparent what the trade secret is. I mean everybody understands that Barak alone knows what the process is. You know sometimes managers are not sure what the trade secrets they have are in in-house.

Barak Yeah. And it’s important to note that there is a document of the whole process in a safe with our IP lawyers.

Ilanit Absolutely you wanna come work for Applefeld and company?

Barak I’m too busy.

ilanit well you’re accepted. You got the job. Thanks, Barak. OK see you soon.

Barak Thanks. Bye-bye.

The post The Real bite of Rilbite first appeared on AppeIfeld&Co..

Mel Rosenberg I think that foolishness is the mother of invention. It’s this childish wonder

Ilanit Appelfeld You are listening to Professor Mel Rosenberg inventor of the famous

Ilanit Appelfeld Hi Mel I’m very excited that you’re here. I’m excited. Thanks for coming.

Mel Rosenberg Hi listeners.

Ilanit Appelfeld You manage the Ketter Innovation Center at Shenkar college in Ramat

Mel Rosenberg I’m primarily a children’s book writer but I’m not discovered yet.

Ilanit Appelfeld And lately I’ve heard that you have been approached by one of the

Mel Rosenberg I can’t deny that but I’m not going to confirm it either.

Ilanit Appelfeld Well let’s just dive in.

Mel Rosenberg Dive away.

Ilanit Appelfeld How do you decide if and when to file a patent application.

Mel Rosenberg So of course not all ideas need to be patented. Not all ideas can be

Mel Rosenberg Yes but when you’re a small company you don’t know what your product

Ilanit Appelfeld So your advice would be wait as much as you can in filing your patent

Mel Rosenberg Well there’s there’s always a dilemma because you can’t tell anybody

Ilanit Appelfeld But what about investment processes I mean venture capitalists

Mel Rosenberg Sometimes this is a mistake. If you’re an investor and you’re looking at

Ilanit Appelfeld I think that when the technology is strong and the patents don’t drive the

Mel Rosenberg I’m a believer in provisionals. So I would say the following If the investor

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg And then if you can do about that turnaround within a year’s time or so

Ilanit Appelfeld Mm hmm. I know that you teach creative thinking oral presentations and

Ilanit Appelfeld Well when I started giving courses on creative thinking with Dr. Alon Amit

Ilanit Appelfeld Such as for example.

Mel Rosenberg Well we we teach them that creativity is a two step process. Most people

Ilanit Appelfeld So it is a necessity the mother of invention as they say or they create.

Mel Rosenberg No I think that I think that foolishness is the mother of invention.

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg It’s this childish wonder at the world and just noticing things and making

Ilanit Appelfeld Could you take us to that inventive moment in your company in your

Mel Rosenberg Well again it’s mostly discovery. It’s mostly noticing things that are

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg So I’m a very obstinate person. So yes I did stick with this from the

Ilanit Appelfeld Amazing.

Mel Rosenberg Why why shouldn’t they be but the other thing is that at some stage if

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. Yeah I’ve seen this with some of my clients. So if we go back.

Mel Rosenberg Well if it’s an Internet company perhaps never.

Ilanit Appelfeld No I totally agree.

Mel Rosenberg If it’s a tech not technology company then I think at this stage where you

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. Right.

Mel Rosenberg So it’s over. It’s important have a very good idea of what your technology

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg And I had one patent which I never told you about that. We got a patent

Ilanit Appelfeld To get the first patent without a proper examination.

Mel Rosenberg Now we have the examination he said OK this is new this is

Mel Rosenberg No we didn’t. In other words that patent went through first time.

Ilanit Appelfeld Excellent.

Mel Rosenberg There was no it was a lousy patent.

Ilanit Appelfeld Oh I see.

Mel Rosenberg Because the claim the first claim was so restrictive that it was new it was

Ilanit Appelfeld All right.

Mel Rosenberg Which would probably have been rejected the first first time round.

Ilanit Appelfeld That’s always a challenge.

Mel Rosenberg Because our patent was too narrow. So we got the path and brain

Ilanit Appelfeld Unbelievable. So in that example getting a patent quickly was a bad sign.

Mel Rosenberg Yes, but I didn’t see it at the time.

Ilanit Appelfeld Is that there is always a challenge between finding a patent that is not too

Mel Rosenberg Yeah. But if it’s a provisional you can afford to be wide.

Ilanit Appelfeld Of course.

Mel Rosenberg I would. In retrospect looking back at my career and all my failures and

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg I mean again.

Ilanit Appelfeld If you know provisional you have nothing to lose anyway but.

Mel Rosenberg If you’re a startup you don’t want the examination to go back and forth too

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg But that’s not a bad thing. You have the money.

Ilanit Appelfeld I’ll tell you what. In litigation the more times you go back and forth with the

Mel Rosenberg Yes, But if we’re talking about a small company.

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg And I only have experience with small companies you don’t want to reach

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. No absolutely.

Mel Rosenberg Litigation we were one of our patents was challenged by a multinational

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg You’re trying to fight off this humongous monster of a company.

Ilanit Appelfeld I guess there were no litigation funders at the time and no patent trolls.

Mel Rosenberg But it wouldn’t have helped us that much, because well it might have. But

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. So, as an inventor and prolific at that what would you say is the

Mel Rosenberg Pay them. It’s very expensive. And for startups it can be onerous. So you

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. Okay. But about companies who need the handholding I mean we

Mel Rosenberg I think that that’s a great tip. I certainly benefited over the years by having

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg And if the patent attorney has a lot of experience as you do it’s invaluable

Ilanit Appelfeld Absolutely. And as someone who has been part of a large corporation do

Mel Rosenberg It’s it’s a good question. Here in Israel as an employee of a company

Ilanit Appelfeld Because it would give you status and you would have a packed under

Mel Rosenberg Well Ilanit unless you work at a company that thrives on innovation loves

Ilanit Appelfeld Well let’s talk about Israeli startups. You know a startup.

Ilanit Appelfeld I want to talk about a big company.

Ilanit Appelfeld OK.

Mel Rosenberg Big companies are actually against innovation. They punish innovation.

Ilanit Appelfeld All right.

Mel Rosenberg Bark for an hour and then go home.

Ilanit Appelfeld All right. OK. We’ve seen that in Israel live. We’ve never managed to

Mel Rosenberg So I think in most companies the inventors are not priced. Quite the

Ilanit Appelfeld Really!

Mel Rosenberg Yeah I can tell you many discussions that I had with senior university

Ilanit Appelfeld All right.

Mel Rosenberg The fortune and fame that they were receiving because they weren’t

Ilanit Appelfeld Ilanit Appelfeld Well I’m very surprised to hear that.

Mel Rosenberg Mm hmm. But on the other hand it was an environment in which I could

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg And patents that didn’t go in. So I have this like dual citizenship at Tel

Ilanit Appelfeld How long.

Mel Rosenberg It has patent protection for the next year. Just by happenstance.

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg Everywhere else in the world the patents have expired ages ago. So if

Ilanit Appelfeld Absolutely. Yeah.

Mel Rosenberg So yes absolutely hasn’t been taken. I mean look if you’re the big drug

Ilanit Appelfeld Right there are CIP’s of this strategy is on.

Mel Rosenberg But and then. But if you’re a small company and you’re working on

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. The statistics are amazing. I mean if we look back to the history of

Mel Rosenberg I would and also we need to remember that very few patents succeed.

Ilanit Appelfeld Right. Yeah. Closer to 10…

Mel Rosenberg It hasn’t hasn’t. Everything’s been invented on. And I said to them Well

Ilanit Appelfeld Right.

Mel Rosenberg And that was all happenstance.

Ilanit Appelfeld So let’s touch the topic of trade secrets. I’m in love with trade secrets.

Mel Rosenberg And you should be. I thought you were in love with your husband and

Ilanit Appelfeld We meet a lot of companies that have these ideas for patents and we end

Mel Rosenberg And now you have to say what you’re doing really!

Ilanit Appelfeld Keep it as a trade secret.

Mel Rosenberg Yeah,.

Ilanit Appelfeld It’s not always the right way to go but if it’s something that’s not easily

Mel Rosenberg Yes I think that that is wonderful. And it’s even better alongside the

Ilanit Appelfeld Yeah absolutely. But we spoke about your future plans that you were

Mel Rosenberg So first of all as you know my dream is to be an acknowledged children’s

Ilanit AppelfeldAbsolutely.

Mel Rosenberg But even the ones that blew up on the way are no less fun and I want to

Ilanit Appelfeld Yeah. I’m really glad that you left Canada will be in Israel.

Mel Rosenberg That was also a quirky idea.

Ilanit Appelfeld Sure let’s share the knowledge or in your experience I think you’re a great

Mel Rosenberg Well I’m grateful but I can only tell you that Israel is a country that enables

Ilanit Appelfeld You wouldn’t be writing children’s books if you know.

Mel Rosenberg In Canada they wouldn’t look at it well.

Ilanit Appelfeld I get it. Thank you so much for coming. Really excited. That you’re here.

Mel Rosenberg I’m excited too and when’s lunch.

The post On creativity and Innovation first appeared on AppeIfeld&Co..