In this episode of Provoking Peace, we are joined by Dr. Celene Ibrahim, scholar of Islamic intellectual history and gender studies, and Vanessa Avery, interfaith leader and Executive Director of Sharing Sacred Spaces, for a rich and wide-ranging conversation on interfaith dialogue, deep listening, sacred space, and rebuilding community in polarized times.

Celene and Vanessa share their personal journeys into interreligious work. Shaped by multifaith upbringings, academic study, and lived experience navigating religious identity across Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other traditions. Both reflect on how interfaith engagement is not just an intellectual pursuit, but a deeply embodied, relational practice rooted in listening, vulnerability, and dignity.

The conversation explores practical tools for interfaith dialogue, including structured story-sharing, deep listening exercises, and awareness of the emotional and bodily responses that arise in difficult conversations. 

Key Takeaways

• Interfaith dialogue is most effective when grounded in deep listening, empathy, and structured storytelling.
• Sacred spaces and architecture provide powerful entry points for understanding religious meaning and shared humanity.
• Media representations play a significant role in shaping stereotypes about religious communities—and can be challenged through awareness and advocacy.
• “Brave spaces” require trust, dignity, and shared norms for navigating productive disagreement.
• Young people are often eager to engage across difference but may feel skeptical about systemic change without lived examples of hope.
• Religious and secular worldviews alike are shaped by moral frameworks, values, and assumptions that benefit from honest dialogue.
• Faith-based communities play a crucial role in rebuilding social fabric through care, service, and belonging.
• Interfaith work is as much about self-reflection as it is about understanding others.

About the Guests

Dr. Celene Ibrahim
Dr. Celene Ibrahim is a multidisciplinary scholar specializing in Islamic intellectual history, gender studies, comparative religion, and ethics. She is the author of Women and Gender in the Qur’an and a trusted media voice on Islam and interreligious relations, with appearances on NPR, PBS, and Netflix. She is a faculty member at Groton School, where she teaches Religious Studies and Philosophy and serves as Muslim Chaplain.

Vanessa Avery
Vanessa Avery is a longtime interfaith leader, religious studies scholar, and advocate for religious diversity and inclusion. She is the Executive Director of Sharing Sacred Spaces, an organization dedicated to building interfaith community through visits to sacred spaces, dialogue training, and relationship-building. Vanessa lectures on interfaith engagement and has authored numerous articles on world religions, nonviolence, and peacebuilding.

Notable Quotes

“Listening deeply is a spiritual practice. When we recreate someone’s story, we recreate their world.”

Resources Mentioned

Books

• Women and Gender in the Qur’an — Dr. Celene Ibrahim
  https://www.routledge.com/Women-and-Gender-in-the-Quran/Ibrahim/p/book/9780367507768

Organizations / Initiatives

• Sharing Sacred Spaces
  https://www.sharingsacredspaces.org
• Groton School – Religious Studies & Philosophy
  https://www.groton.org/academics/religious-studies-philosophy
• Spiritual Playdate
  https://www.spi

In this inspiring episode of Provoking Peace, we sit down with Nina Fernando, Executive Director of the Shoulder to Shoulder Campaign, to explore the real work of peacebuilding at the intersections of religion, identity, and justice. Nina shares how her Sri Lankan Catholic upbringing shaped her understanding of faith, how she finds beauty and complexity in all religious traditions, and why she believes human dignity must be at the center of confronting rising anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-Arab, and anti-Palestinian bigotry.

Nina offers a powerful look into what it means to build trust across communities, hold difficult conversations with compassion, and expand coalitions beyond “the choir.” She also opens up about her creative life as a musician.

Key Takeaways:

• Human dignity is non-negotiable, and must ground all responses to intersecting bigotries. 
• Peace work requires meeting people where they are, even when disagreements run deep. 
• Trust is built long before moments of crisis, through consistency, presence, and authentic relationship-building. 
• Coalitions grow through voice-to-voice and face-to-face connection, not through email or social media alone. 
• Women are central faith leaders, even in traditions where clergy roles are male-dominated. 
• Art and music can agitate, heal, inspire, and create new paths forward, especially when institutions fall short. 

About Shoulder to Shoulder

The Shoulder to Shoulder Campaign works to counter anti-Muslim discrimination and build a more pluralistic America. Their work centers on equipping, connecting, and mobilizing communities through trainings, faith-rooted partnerships, national networks, and resources like their new primer on anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-Arab, and anti-Palestinian bigotry. 

About Nina Fernando:

Nina is a Sri Lankan Catholic, community organizer, musician, and interfaith leader. Her work spans labor rights, faith-rooted justice initiatives, and national coalition building. With a deep belief in human dignity, relationship-building, and creative engagement, she leads Shoulder to Shoulder with compassion and clarity. She is also a singer-songwriter whose music reflects love, longing, and commitment to a better world. 

Notable Quotes:

• “Human dignity… it’s not conditional. There’s no ifs and whens.” — Nina Fernando
• “We can work shoulder to shoulder, dream shoulder to shoulder… even disagree shoulder to shoulder.” — Nina Fernando

Resources Mentioned:

Organizations:

• Shoulder to Shoulder Campaign
• Unity Productions Foundation (producers of The Sultan and the Saint)
• Parents Circle – Families Forum (referenced as part of broader peace-related conversations)
• Interfaith Alliance
• Evangelical Lutheran Church of America
• U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
• Union for Reform Judaism

 Initiatives + Tools:

• I Still Love You on Youtube
• Faith Over Fear: a national training program for clergy and lay leaders to counter anti-Muslim discrimination 
• Annual Interfaith Ramadan Iftar Map<

In this episode of Provoking Peace, we sit down with Dr. Daisy Khan—founder of WISE (Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality), global interfaith leader, and author of 30 Rights of Muslim Women—for a wide-ranging and deeply honest conversation about media narratives, faith, gender justice, and the urgent work of peacebuilding in divided times.

Daisy reflects on how 40 years of negative media imagery—from televised violence under the Taliban to the absence of Muslim voices during coverage of ISIS—have profoundly shaped public perception of Muslims, particularly Muslim women. She explains how Orientalism and politically expedient framing have positioned Muslims as a permanent national security threat, enabling war, dehumanization, and the erosion of press independence.

The conversation explores how Muslim women are persistently portrayed as oppressed despite historical and contemporary evidence to the contrary. Daisy points to Islamic scripture granting women rights to education, inheritance, property, and leadership as early as the 7th century—and highlights the civic, professional, and political leadership of Muslim women today in the United States.

Daisy also discusses why she wrote 30 Rights of Muslim Women: as a faith-based resource for Muslim women reclaiming their rights, and as a myth-busting reference for broader audiences. Drawing on shared narratives across Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, she emphasizes that women have always been central spiritual actors—co-stewards of prophetic missions rather than sidelined figures.

Throughout the episode, Daisy returns to the idea that peace is not passive. It is sacred, difficult, and urgent work. From Islamophobia trainings in corporate spaces to interfaith dialogue rooted in active listening, she calls for honest conversations that humanize rather than divide. Peace, she argues, begins when we refuse fear-based narratives and commit to understanding one another without demanding agreement.

Key Takeaways:

• Media framing has played a central role in shaping anti-Muslim bigotry, particularly through decades of unbalanced and dehumanizing imagery.
• Muslim women’s rights are deeply rooted in Islamic scripture, including rights to education, inheritance, property, and leadership.
• Political agendas often drive media narratives, enabling war, fear, and the demonization of entire communities.
• Women have always played central spiritual and leadership roles in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity—history has simply been selectively told.
• 30 Rights of Muslim Women serves both as a faith-based reference for Muslim women and an educational tool for non-Muslims.
• Religion is frequently weaponized for political ends, affecting women’s rights across cultures and faiths.
• Peacebuilding requires honest dialogue, active listening, and the courage to engage across differences.
• Peace is sacred work rooted in urgency, service, and responsibility to one’s community and humanity.

About the Guest

Dr. Daisy Khan is a globally recognized interfaith leader, activist, and founder of WISE (Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality). Her work focuses on women’s rights within Islam, countering extremism, and building bridges across faiths. She is the author of 30 Rights of Muslim Women, a comprehensive reference on women’s rights grounded in Islamic theology and history.

Notable Quotes:

“Forty years of negative imaging has consequences. When you only show one story, people believe that’s the truth.”

Organizations / Initiatives Referenced

• WISE (Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality)
• Interfaith dialogue and Islamophobia ed

*RECORDED IN DECEMBER 2024*

In this episode of Provoking Peace, we sit down with two remarkable women doing interfaith justice work in one of the most painful political moments of our time: Rabbi Nancy Kreimer, founder of the Department of Multi-Faith Studies & Initiatives at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College, and Samah El-Haj Ibrahim, a Palestinian refugee, scholar, and professor of political theory.

Samah shares the lived reality of being born a stateless Palestinian refugee in Lebanon, with no political or civil rights — unable to vote, own property, or even travel freely. She describes how Palestinian culture survives through family, food, language, art, and the yearning for a homeland that “lives in us, rather than us living in it.”

Rabbi Nancy reflects on growing up in post-Holocaust America, how her understanding of Jewish identity shifted over decades, and why she now speaks out against white Christian nationalism and the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Jewish bigotry.

Together, they share how they met, how they grieve all children lost — Israeli and Palestinian — and why building an interfaith group during a genocide is both painful and necessary. Their collaboration models what it looks like to refuse enemy narratives and instead choose shared mourning, shared humanity, and shared action.

Key Takeaways:

• Cultural identity survives in diaspora through language, food, art, family stories, and intentional teaching across generations.
• Being a Palestinian refugee means inheriting statelessness — no citizenship, no political or civil rights, and constant barriers to work, travel, and belonging.
• Identity evolves over time. Rabbi Nancy’s understanding of Jewish identity shifted as she witnessed the rise of white Christian nationalism and the politicization of “anti-Semitism.”
• White Christian nationalism poses a profound threat to both Jewish and Muslim communities in the U.S.
• Interfaith solidarity during genocide is painful but healing. Creating spaces to mourn all lives lost — without false equivalences — is radical and restorative.
• Interfaith work matters. Both women have seen moments of hope through community building, shared vigils, and witnessing each other’s grief and humanity.

About the Guests

Rabbi Nancy Kreimer

Rabbi Nancy Kreimer is a pioneer in interfaith dialogue and multi-faith education. She founded the Department of Multi-Faith Studies and Initiatives at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College in Philadelphia, where she served for nearly 30 years. 

She is co-author of:
Strangers, Neighbors, Friends: Muslim, Christian, Jewish Reflections on Compassion and Peace. Her work centers on justice, shared humanity, and challenging nationalist or supremacist interpretations within faith traditions.

Samah El-Haj Ibrahim

Samah is an adjunct professor at Moore College of Art & Design specializing in political theory, citizenship, statelessness, and the Middle East. Born a Palestinian refugee in Lebanon, she brings personal and academic insight into questions of identity, displacement, and belonging. She is currently writing a book on citizenship in unrecognized states.

Notable Quotes:

• “Palestine has always lived in us, rather than us living in Palestine.” — Samah
• “White Christian nationalism is a much greater threat to Jews than anti-Zionism.” — Rabbi Nancy

Resources Mentioned:

Books

• Strangers, Neighbors, Friends: Muslim, Christian, Jewish Reflections on Compassion and Peace — Rabbi Nancy Kreimer & co-authors

Organizations / Groups Referenced

• Departme

Welcome to the Provoking Peace Podcast! In this powerful debut episode and timely conversation, the hosts speak with award-winning filmmakers Julie Cohen and Mo Husseini about their new documentary The Path Forward. The film gives voice to Jewish and Palestinian individuals who, despite loss and division, choose empathy and dialogue over despair.

Julie and Mo share how storytelling can heal, challenge bias, and remind us of our shared humanity—even amid conflict. This episode invites listeners to see acknowledgment not as agreement, but as a radical act of understanding.

Key Takeaways:

• Empathy builds bridges where politics divide.
• Acknowledgment heals—understanding someone’s pain doesn’t mean surrendering your beliefs.
• Brave spaces allow discomfort that leads to truth and growth.
• Peace is a process, not a destination.
• Small acts matter; one gesture of kindness can start reconciliation.

About the Film:

The Path Forward follows three pairs of Jewish and Palestinian individuals who’ve each lost loved ones to the conflict. Instead of turning toward hate, they choose connection and empathy. Filmed across the U.S. and Europe, the documentary proves that peace begins with people, not politics.

About the Guests:

Julie Cohen – Oscar-nominated co-director of RBG and Everybody, Julie is known for stories that explore empathy, justice, and identity.

Mo Husseini – Palestinian-American filmmaker, writer, and musician whose viral essay 50 Completely True Things and current work bridge cultures through humor and vulnerability.

Notable Quotes:

“You don’t have to agree with me to understand me.” — Mo Husseini

“Acknowledgment is not an apology—it’s respect.” — Julie Cohen

“Peace is not a destination—it’s a path we walk, even when it’s hard.” — Julie Cohen

Resources Mentioned: 

Organizations:

• Parents Circle – Families Forum
• Breaking the Silence
• Field Bait (shared community initiative)

Other Works by the Guests:

• RBG (2018) My Name Is Pauli Murray (2021), Everybody (2023) – Julie Cohen
• 50 Completely True Things (essay) – Mo Husseini

The Path Forward is available to rent on Amazon Prime and Grasshopper film: https://watch.grasshopperfilm.com/films/the-path-forward.