Join me, Dr. Charles Handler, for the latest episode of Science 4-Hire as I engage in a fascinating conversation with Neil Morelli, lead IO psychologist at Codility, a global provider of coding assessments.

Our discussion centers around LLMs, such as GPT, and the dangers they present to test security and honesty when taking assessments. We agree there can be no bad without good, so we also talk about the positive side of LLMs and their role in helping us be more productive while evolving the nature of work itself.

Join us as we explore both sides of the “GPT good or bad?” debate.

We begin by exchanging ideas about the transformative nature of GPT in general. We both agree that it is a significant paradigm shift that seems to have come out of nowhere.

We then get into a really important conversation about the various use cases of GPT in the world of pre-hire talent assessment. We discuss both positive use cases and negative ones such as cheating.

According to Morelli, “cheating” should be defined as:

“a no or low knowledge candidate who wouldn't be successful otherwise is now using this to basically impute knowledge that they don't have and signal that they're qualified for a job that they're not qualified for.”

But there are many use cases where it is perfectly normal for IT candidates to use tools to support their efforts. For instance, developers use outside tools such as Stack Overflow on a regular basis and this type of outside assistance is 100% accepted. So how is using GPT to assist with writing code any different? According to Morelli,
“It's a supercharged version of the knowledge repositories that most developers rely on every day to do their jobs.”

We agree that, when it comes to talent assessment tools outside the realm of coding (i.e., personality, cognitive, simulations, etc.), the format of the questions themselves make it much harder to use GPT to cheat. Self-report tools use item formats that are more difficult to feed into GPT and they are often more subjective in nature, creating an entirely different paradigm from coding simulations.

Our conversation then arrives at the idea that solutions should focus more on how we weave GPT into the assessment tools we are using or building instead of simply assuming it is a tool for cheating.


We arrive at shared speculation around the exact role of GPT in shaping the future of hiring assessments. Can it be a force for good, or will it be our downfall?

Neil notes:
“So, I can see the worry. I can see the anxiety that, hey, this is forcing assessment creators, writers, people that are in this business or do this type of work. It's forcing us to adapt very, very quickly. And that level of change, the pace of change can feel super overwhelming and scary.”

We finish out our discussion with a focus on the idea that LLMs alone will not get our work done for us. Its effective use still requires human intelligence and oversight to both ask the right questions and manage the output to support our end goal. Cheating is no exception here. Those who rely soley on LLMs to do their work for them or to help them be someone they are not, will likely fail to meet their end goal of putting one over on a potential employer.

To quote the singer Rick Springfield, “We all need the human touch!”

Join me, Dr. Charles Handler, and Neil Morelli on this thought-provoking journey as we explore the potential of LLMs to impact the safety and security of talent assessment, now and in the future.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

In the latest episode of Science 4-Hire, I had a fascinating conversation with Steve Hunt, Chief Expert of Technology & Work at SAP. Together, we discussed
Steve’s latest book, Talent Techtonics, which provides a framework for our conversation. As he notes...

“I wanted to talk about how work is changing, but not just trends like how hybrid work, but why is it changing? And that's where the phrase talent tectonics comes from, that the nature of work is fundamentally altered by underlying shifts like the tectonic plates. We can't see 'em move, but they're constantly moving. They change the surface of the earth and may create new experiences or topography such as earthquakes or mountain ranges. “

We discuss how these shifts can be viewed from a combination of elements that form a unique perspective. Namely, the role of humans in choosing and implementing HR technology and the impact these actions will have on the future of work. Steve offers his take on this in our latest episode:

“From a psychological perspective So, the book goes through and looks at the perennial work challenges of how do we staff jobs, how do we design jobs, how do we pay people, how do we develop people? How do we engage people? But it looks at how do we need to do this more effectively leveraging technology to create more human environments, more supportive environments.”

But the crux of Steve’s unique perspective lies in the role that technology plays in achieving a more humanistic and productive workplace. In the episode, Steve emphasized the importance of using technology to augment human abilities and design job roles that align with individual skills and strengths. We delved into the application of assessment tools and machine learning in talent acquisition, development, and employee engagement.

We also examined the role of operational and collaboration technologies in optimizing work environments. Steve highlighted the need for organizations to stay abreast of technological advancements and regularly reassess their HR processes to effectively leverage available tools.

Throughout our conversation, we underscored the significance of considering individual differences, traits, and abilities. Steve explained how technology enables better assessment and understanding of employee attributes, leading to more tailored job roles and fostering employee growth within the company.

As we wrapped up the episode, I emphasized the importance for HR professionals to stay informed about emerging technologies and critically evaluate their existing processes. We encouraged listeners to embrace technology's capabilities to drive positive change in HR practices, while never losing sight of the value of human connections and interactions.

Join me in this thought-provoking episode of Science 4-Hire as Steve Hunt and I explore the transformative potential of HR technology in redefining work for the modern era.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

In the latest episode of Science 4-Hire, I have a refreshing and relaxing conversation with Fred Oswald, an esteemed industrial-organizational psychologist and professor at Rice University. Fred is extremely active in the area of AI ethics and governance, especially with regards to hiring. Fred has served on many committees addressing these issues such as the National AI Advisory Committee and is a regular contributor at the SIOP (Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology) conference.

We called our conversation, “SIOP decompression” as the conference was 100% information overload. Fred and I sift through the mountain of information we consumed to focus on some of the topics we found to be most important to businesses and society at large.

It is no surprise that the topics we choose to focus on all fall under AI and Hiring. We distill topics such as legislation and ethics for AI and hiring, the impact of Chat GPT and large language models on the world of work, and cool stuff like Fred’s work with performance management programs for the US Space Force.

We look at these issues from many points of view including those of the law, computer science, psychology, and business. Our message is that the future is starting to look pretty crazy, and it is going to take a blend of many perspectives and disciplines to ensure we are navigating it ethically while still building a free market economy.

At the core of all this are humans. Fred emphasized the need for human involvement, stating,

“Like any algorithm, you have to have humans there to manage every aspect of its use and interpretation.”

Listen to the full episode now and join us as we explore the great stuff from SIOP 2023 as it related to the intersection of AI, psychology, and the future of work.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

On today's episode of Science 4-Hire, I welcome Christy Smith and Lauren Robertson for an enlightened discussion about the importance of skills identification and assessment on the future of talent acquisition and development.

Christy is the central market leader for career products at Mercer, supporting the commercial strategy for Mercer's skills products in the US and Canada. Lauren is an organizational psychologist working with Mercer on developing and implementing their skills-focused products and programs.

In our conversation, we explore a full range of topics related to the challenges and rewards of skills identification and assessment, and the role they play in creating and evolving talent acquisition and development strategies.

Our chat begins with a discussion of the definition of “skills”, suggesting it should be broad based and include the individual differences that make each human unique (aka, traits, skills, knowledge, competencies, abilities, etc.).

Such a broad-based definition supports the critical importance of skills identification as a foundation for talent acquisition and talent mobility programs. My guests share the work Mercer has been doing creating such a foundation through its development of a comprehensive skills taxonomy.

From here Lauren, Christy and I really dig into a review and discussion of the many talent processes that benefit from a skills-based approach, including the importance of skills-based hiring, how to overcome skills gaps, and the role of skills identification and assessment in fostering diversity and inclusion in the workplace.

We also dive into the specific skills that are in high demand in today's job market, and how organizations can leverage skills identification and assessment to stay ahead of the curve. From emerging skills in technology and data analysis to soft skills like communication and collaboration, we explore the trends and insights that are shaping the future of work.

If you're interested in learning more about the importance of skills and how to build out skills-based programs in your organization, this episode is a must-listen!




This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

My guest for this episode is Collin Hawkes, Senior Lead I/O Psychologist at Lumen Technologies, an internet services company whose mission is to connect people with technology. Join us today for an interesting conversation that focuses on the use of AI and machine learning to break jobs into a variety of elements, a process also known as “Job Analysis”. We share our experiences in this nascent, but important area and use them as a bridge to other topics that relate to the use of AI in IO psychology.

Our discussion begins with the sharing of our mutual admiration for job analysis as both an art and a science. We have both spent countless hours laboring over the tedious aspects of this essential tool of the trade.

This crucible has led us both independently to the idea that there must be a better way to tackle the critical but painful minutia while still staying true to the art of the whole thing.

Collin notes:
I'd literally go line by line and these tasks and say, okay, what task, this task statement, this specific one task statement, what does this line up to in terms of a competency? And so, I have this Excel sheet with all these tasks in one hearing, and I would go down and I was like, what am I doing this for? Why am I doing this every single time? And so, it sort of created a thought in my mind, well dang, I could train an AI to do the same thing that I'm doing all time and it would probably be better than me at doing it.

We then discussed Collin’s pet project, the T stat, which is an automated tool that automatically categorizes task statements which are essentially the “atoms” of a job because they identify each and every task that is required to perform a job. These tasks are then aggregated into higher level factors such as competencies. I then shared my own experience in building an AI based tool that can take transcripts of job analysis interviews that when aggregated can identify the competencies and traits that are most important for a job.

Through our discussion of these projects, we find common ground in the use of AI in other areas of our trade, including assessments, video interviews, and job matching tools.

The discussion is definitely worth a listen!

For anyone interested in learning more about Collin’s app- check out t-stat.com

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

In this episode I welcome two different but complimentary perspectives on the legal aspects of employment testing that are happening in an ambiguous and seemingly ever-changing environment. While the conversation is oriented towards the ever controversial and somewhat frustrating NYC algorithmic hiring law that has recently gone into effect (?), it is really a much deeper and headier conversation about the use of AI models in employment decision making. More specifically, about the legal responsibilities of those who provide and use these tools.

There is no one better to hash over these important topics than my two guests- Dr. Richard Landers, a professor of IO psychology at the University of Minnesota who also specializes in computer science and legal audits of selection systems. And- Mark Girouard- a lawyer at Nilan Johnson Lewis who specializes in employment law as it relates to hiring and the use of predictive decision-making tools.

I have worked with both of my guests on various projects related to our topics today and can assure you that they are on the top of the heap when it comes to expert, practical, and credible advice on these extremely complex and ever evolving issues.

To really absorb all the wisdom on the controversial but critical topic of legal compliance in today’s crazy world, you really have to listen to this episode. So, what are you waiting for, tune in now!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

My guest for this episode is Dr. Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic. Besides his role as the Chief Innovation Officer at Manpower Group, Dr. Tomas is a world-renowned IO psychologist, educator, entrepreneur and author. He joins me today to discuss his new book, I, Human: AI, Automation, and the Quest to Reclaim What Makes Us Unique.

We use the big picture principles of this book to frame up an invigorating conversation about ChatGPTand its impact on humankind, jobs, and hiring. If you have been tuned in to the hype around ChatGPT and have been wondering if it is good or bad for humans, jobs, and work our discussion is definitely worth a listen.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

On this episode my guests Dr. Amy Dufrane, SPHR, Andre Allen and I discuss the value of HR certification for both individuals and businesses, as well as the role certification plays in current business trends. Amy is the CEO of the Human Resources Certification Institute and Andre is its Chairman of the Board. Not only do these two know the ins and outs of HR certification, but they are also seasoned assessment specialists who are wired into global business trends.

Join us to learn all about HRCI’s certification and learning programs and how they are directly dialed in to the trends that are shaping our current and future business environment.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

My guest for this episode, Mike Campion, is one of the most respected and prolific IO psychologists around. With hundreds of publications and over a thousand consulting projects under his belt, when it comes to predictive hiring tools, Mike has seen and done it all. It is a real honor to have him on the show to discuss the responsible use of AI and machine learning in hiring systems.

This is an important topic – According to Mike,

“I see it (AI) as probably the biggest trend in the profession of personnel selection. Probably the biggest influence since the Equal Rights Act in terms of its overwhelming impact that it will have on the field. So I changed all my research pretty much to focus on artificial intelligence these days.”

While AI in hiring is certainly controversial, as our conversation reveals, if done right there is a bright future for it. BUT- ensuring this future is one that we can be proud of requires a great deal of foresight and responsibility.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

On this episode of Science 4-Hire, I’m joined by none other than Kevin Grossman, president and board member at Talent Board and expert on all things candidate experience. Every year, Grossman leads Talent Board’s benchmark research to identify trends and best practices in what makes a good candidate experience journey.

What does Talent Board’s research reveal about candidate experience? There are three essential elements: Sending timely rejections, providing consistent communication and offering feedback. Want to learn how these things are best reflected in your talent assessment program? Listen to the full conversation to learn more about the candidate experience.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com