Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health

By Dr. Johnny Lieberman

Welcome to Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health—a podcast for smart, curious listeners who are tired of being misled by clickbait headlines and not always sure which headlines to believe. Hosted b

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FAQs about Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health:

How many episodes does Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health have?

The podcast currently has 32 episodes available.

Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health episodes:

August 19, 2026 Where Do Pet Store Puppies Really Come From? | Ep. 26
EPISODE SUMMARY
Every puppy sold in a pet store or online has parents living in misery somewhere you'll never see. Lori Greenstone spent 15 years fighting to shut down the pipeline between puppy mills and pet stores in Colorado, and she finally won. This is the story of what puppy mills actually look like, why the industry stays hidden, and how a state-level law can save thousands of dogs from lives of suffering.
IN THIS EPISODE
- What a puppy mill actually is: factory farms for dogs with no vet care, no socialization, and no escape
- The hidden lives of breeding dogs who never touch grass, never see a toy, and are discarded when they can no longer produce
- How puppy mills connect directly to pet stores and online puppy sales
- Lori's path from "What's a puppy mill?" to leading a 15-year legislative campaign
- The federal Pups Bill and why state-level action became the real strategy
- Colorado's new law banning pet stores from selling puppy mill dogs and kittens
- Mill dog rescues and what recovery looks like for dogs who've never known kindness
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. When you buy a puppy from a pet store or online, you are funding the suffering of the breeding dogs who live and die in puppy mills.
2. Puppy mills operate in the shadows on purpose, keeping consumers unaware of conditions that would horrify them.
3. Dogs rescued from mills often take years to recover, and some never learn to trust humans or understand basic comforts like grass or blankets.
4. State-level legislation can succeed where federal bills stall, and Colorado just proved it.
5. You can still find the puppy you want without supporting this industry.
KEYWORDS
Lori Greenstone, Colorado Voters for Animals, puppy mills, pet store puppies, animal welfare legislation, breeding dogs, mill dog rescue, Pups Bill, humane pet adoption, Colorado animal laws, commercial dog breeding, puppy mill reform, National Mill Dog Rescue
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45min
August 05, 2026 From Animal Researcher to Animal Advocate: One Scientist's Journey | Ep. 25
EPISODE SUMMARY
A biomedical scientist who spent 14 years experimenting on animals now runs Canada's first centre dedicated to replacing them. Dr. Charu Chandrasekera explains why the animal research you assume is necessary may not be, and what that means for the drugs you take.
IN THIS EPISODE
- How heart failure is artificially induced in dogs and rats through surgery, pacemakers, and arterial restriction
- The four primary methods used to create disease in lab animals: surgical removal, chemical destruction, genetic modification, and dietary manipulation
- Why results from animal models often fail to translate to human treatments
- Dr. Chandrasekera's personal shift from cardiovascular animal researcher to advocate for human-based methods
- The difference between basic biomedical research and safety testing in animal use
- How the culture of science pressures researchers to validate human data using animal models
- What it means that animal experiments taught us the limits of animal experiments
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. Every animal experiment labeled "necessary" by ethics boards and peer reviewers is not automatically necessary. The approval process does not guarantee scientific value.
2. Animal models of disease are artificially induced, which means researchers are studying a manufactured condition, not the same disease process that develops naturally in humans.
3. The technologies available in 2025 are not the technologies of 1921. The argument that we needed animals to discover insulin does not mean we need them now.
4. Acknowledging the historical contributions of animal research and acknowledging its colossal limitations are not contradictory positions.
5. The scientific culture itself, not just individual researchers, drives continued animal use through funding structures, validation requirements, and training norms.
KEYWORDS
Dr. Charu Chandrasekera, animal testing, animal research alternatives, Canadian Centre for Alternatives to Animal Methods, heart failure research, drug development, translational research, biomedical ethics, lab animals, human-based methods, cardiovascular research, scientific culture, research regulation
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50min
July 22, 2026 Good Intentions, Permanent Harm. Rethinking How We Care for Pets | Ep24
EPISODE SUMMARY
Most people who bring pets into their homes consider them family. But some of the choices we make, from where we get our animals to procedures we assume are harmless, cause real suffering. Megan Senatori breaks down what cat declawing actually does to cats, why pet stores are a problem, and how the law is starting to catch up with what the science already knows.
IN THIS EPISODE
- What cat declawing really involves and why it's not like trimming nails
- Long-term consequences of declawing, including chronic pain, biting, and litter box avoidance
- How declawing can lead to pet surrenders and shelter overcrowding
- The eight states that have banned cosmetic declawing
- Why landlords requiring declawing is a policy problem, and Delaware's response
- The hidden cost of buying pets from pet stores and supporting puppy mills
- How well-meaning people cause harm through lack of information
- The role of veterinarians in perpetuating or preventing these procedures
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. Cat declawing is amputation at the first knuckle, not a nail trim, and it causes lifelong pain and behavioral problems.
2. Where you get your pet matters. Buying from pet stores often supports puppy and kitten mills.
3. Laws banning harmful cosmetic procedures are growing, with eight states now prohibiting non-therapeutic declawing.
4. Landlord policies requiring declawing push pet owners into harming their animals, and only one state has addressed this.
5. Loving your pet like family means making informed choices, even when vets or landlords suggest otherwise.
KEYWORDS
Megan Senatori, cat declawing, animal law, Lewis & Clark Law School, companion animal welfare, puppy mills, pet store regulations, veterinary ethics, animal protection, tail docking, ear cropping, shelter surrenders, pet ownership, animal cruelty laws, Center for Animal Law Studies
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37min
July 08, 2026 Animal Testing: The Science Has Changed. Has the Public? | Ep23
EPISODE SUMMARY
For 40 years, governments have quietly acknowledged that animal testing often fails to predict what medicines will do to humans. So why does the public still believe it's the gold standard? Jeffrey Brown, an epidemiologist who advises on animal-free testing methods, explains why the science has moved on, even if the narrative hasn't.
IN THIS EPISODE
- Why animal testing results often don't translate to human safety outcomes
- The 1986 European Union directive that called for moving away from animal methods
- How basic cell and molecular biology research differs from regulatory safety testing
- The latest EU data showing animal use in research is declining
- What the FDA and other regulatory agencies actually need from safety testing
- How to evaluate conflicting messages from research institutions and advocacy groups
- The gap between public perception of animal testing and what scientists know
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. Animal testing is not the reliable safety check most people assume it is, and scientists who work in regulatory affairs know this.
2. The European Union has tracked animal use in research for decades, and the numbers keep dropping as better methods take hold.
3. Moving away from animal testing is not just an ethical position. It is a scientific one, backed by 40 years of regulatory policy.
4. When governments and drug approval agencies push for non-animal methods, they are trying to get more accurate data, not less.
5. You do not have to be an expert to ask better questions about where safety data comes from.
KEYWORDS
Jeffrey Brown, animal testing, non-animal methods, FDA, drug safety, epidemiology, cell biology, medical device testing, European Union animal research policy, regulatory science, public health, animal-free research, toxicity testing, Science Consortium
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40min
June 24, 2026 Factory Farming Is Polluting America’s Water and Nobody’s Stopping It | Ep22
EPISODE SUMMARY
Factory farming produces 98% of the meat Americans eat, and its environmental damage runs far deeper than most people realize. Ken Swensen, founder of Inside Animal Ag, breaks down how industrial animal agriculture has become the primary driver of water pollution in the United States, contaminating drinking wells, killing aquatic life, and creating dead zones in our oceans.
IN THIS EPISODE
- Why 98% of animal products in the U.S. come from factory farms, despite misleading packaging
- How concentrated manure and fertilizer runoff cause nutrient pollution in waterways
- The link between factory farming and the Gulf of Mexico dead zone
- Nitrate contamination in private wells and why 1.5 million Americans drink unsafe water
- Health effects of nitrate exposure, including blue baby syndrome, cancer, and birth defects
- Agricultural exceptionalism and why regulators look the other way
- How meat labels deceive consumers into thinking they're buying humane products
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. Factory farming is the primary cause of water pollution in the United States, driven by excess manure and fertilizer from feed crops.
2. Even nitrate levels at half the EPA's legal limit can cause serious health problems, including cancer and birth defects.
3. Most consumers believe they're avoiding factory farm products, but deceptive labeling keeps them in the dark.
4. Aquatic species are the most threatened animals in the U.S., largely because of nutrient pollution from industrial agriculture.
5. The health and environmental costs of factory farming are quietly transferred from corporations to rural communities who never agreed to bear them.
KEYWORDS
Ken Swensen, Inside Animal Ag, factory farming, industrial animal agriculture, water pollution, nutrient pollution, nitrates in drinking water, Gulf of Mexico dead zone, manure runoff, feed crops, agricultural exceptionalism, food labeling, public health, environmental health, rural communities
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49min
June 10, 2026 Behind the Label: How Industries Shape What We Believe About Animals | Ep21
In this episode of Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Dr. Johnny Lieberman talks with Ashley Frohnert, Director of Social Media at PETA, about humane-washing, consumer psychology, and the hidden realities behind products marketed as ethical, humane, or compassionate. From her childhood in 4-H to leading one of the world’s most influential animal advocacy social media teams, Ashley shares how questioning deeply held beliefs can lead to unexpected discoveries about animals, industry, and ourselves.
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41min
May 27, 2026 Humane Washing: The Labels Consumers Trust and the Truth Behind Them with Amber Canavan | Ep20
Amber Canavan joins Dr. Johnny Lieberman to discuss humane washing, the marketing tactics used to make industrial animal agriculture appear ethical and compassionate. Together, they explore consumer psychology, public perception, animal advocacy, and the growing role of social media in exposing hidden realities behind food labeling and animal welfare claims.
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43min
May 13, 2026 Why Animal Testing Is a Broken System and What's Replacing It with Mackensey Alexander | Ep19
What if the biggest obstacle to curing Alzheimer's, ALS, and cancer isn't funding or effort, but the model we've been using for 2,000 years? Mackensey Alexander, bioethicist and law student at Lewis & Clark, makes the case that animal testing isn't just ethically wrong, it's scientifically broken. With a 90% failure rate in translating results to humans and $23 billion in taxpayer dollars spent annually on animal models, Mackensey and Dr. Lieberman break down the growing field of New Approach Methods (NAMs), from tumor organoids to organ-on-a-chip technology, and why the science of the future is already here. Plus: what's happening right now in Washington D.C. that could change everything.
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36min
April 29, 2026Animal Research: Bad Science, and A Broken System: A Former Lab Researcher Speaks Out | Ep18
What if the system we rely on to develop life-saving medicines is fundamentally flawed, causing immense animal suffering while failing to produce reliable results for humans?
In this powerful episode of Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Dr. Johnny Lieberman speaks with Dr. Emily Trunnell, Director of Science Advancement and Outreach at PETA. A former neuroscience researcher who conducted experiments on rats and mice during her PhD, Dr. Trunnell reveals the shocking realities of lab animal research from dehydrated rats dying due to basic care failures and rats being forcibly intoxicated while lab workers joke about it, to Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees (IACUCs) acting as little more than rubber stamps.
You’ll hear why more than 90% of drugs that pass animal tests still fail in human trials, the massive reproducibility crisis in animal research, species differences that make translation unreliable, and exciting non-animal methods (like organs-on-chips and AI modeling) that are already proving more human-relevant. This episode exposes a broken, self-regulated system and highlights the momentum toward modern, animal-free science that could accelerate medical progress while reducing harm.
Top 3 Takeaways:
The Animal Research Oversight System Is Broken and Self-Regulatory IACUCs are dominated by animal researchers who “police themselves.” They check minimal boxes under the Animal Welfare Act (which excludes 95–99% of animals like mice and rats), rarely question justifications for pain or multiple surgeries, and provide almost no real protection.

Animal Experiments Are Poorly Reproducible and Rarely Translate to Humans Up to 89% of preclinical studies cannot be reproduced. 95% of drugs that succeed in animals fail in human clinical trials due to vast species differences, unnatural lab conditions, and publication bias that hides negative results.

Modern Non-Animal Methods Are Superior and Already Available Technologies like organs-on-chips, organoids, and AI-driven in silico modeling use human cells and biology, deliver faster and more accurate results, and can replace animal tests with agencies like the FDA now actively working to make animal testing the exception rather than the rule.
About the Guest: Dr. Emily Trunnell
Dr. Emily Trunnell graduated Magna Cum Laude from the University of Georgia with a degree in Nutrition Science and earned her doctorate in Neuroscience from the University of Georgia in 2016. She is currently the Director of Science Advancement and Outreach at PETA, where she works to modernize science policy, scientific publishing practices, and university education to support the transition to animal-free research methods. A former animal researcher who conducted experiments on rats and mice during her PhD, Dr. Rinne lives with a passion for advancing human-relevant science that benefits both people and animals.
🔗 Learn more: scienceadvancement.org.
About the Show:
Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health explores the intersection of animal welfare, public policy, and human health. Hosted by Dr. Johnny Lieberman, each episode invites changemakers, legal experts, and health advocates to shed light on what really impacts our communities and what we can do about it.
About the Host:
Dr. Johnny Lieberman is a physician, public health advocate, and lifelong animal lover with a passion for connecting the dots between animal welfare, human behavior, and the systems that shape our lives. With a background in both medicine and public health policy, Johnny brings a unique lens to conversations about how our treatment of animals impacts human health, the environment, and social justice.
In Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Johnny brings warmth, curiosity, and a dash of wit to tough conversations that matter. From exposing the realities of factory farming to uncovering the links between zoonotic diseases and our food systems, his goal is to empower listeners to be informed, compassionate, and engaged citizens while still keeping it real (and sometimes bringing in puppies).
Whether he's discussing legislative loopholes or snuggling his rescue dog between recordings, Dr. Lieberman believes that creating a healthier world starts with how we treat its most vulnerable beings.
Email: [email protected]
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52min
April 17, 2026Flawed Animal Models in Biomedical Research: Why It's Time to Switch to Human Relevant Methods | Ep20
What if the $23 billion we spend every year on animal research is mostly wasted because animal models simply cannot predict what will happen in humans?
In this powerful episode of Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Dr. Johnny Lieberman speaks with Mackensey Alexander, a law student at Lewis & Clark Law School and passionate advocate for ending animal use in biomedical research. Mackenzie breaks down the deep scientific limitations of animal models, especially non-human primates, the rise of superior human relevant New Approach Methods (NAMs), and why the transition away from outdated animal testing is not only ethical but urgently needed for better human health outcomes.
You’ll hear why animal models have a ~90% failure rate in translating to humans, real world successes of organoids and organs-on-a-chip (including in COVID, cancer, and cystic fibrosis research), the massive taxpayer cost, and exciting developments like the potential transition of primate research centers toward sanctuaries. This is a hopeful, evidence-based conversation about how science can evolve beyond flawed systems to deliver treatments faster and more reliably while reducing animal suffering.
Top 3 Takeaways
Animal Models Are Deeply Flawed and Poorly Predictive Decades of research show a massive lack of translatability. Drugs that cure diseases in animals frequently fail or cause unexpected harm in humans, especially for uniquely human conditions like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and autism spectrum disorders. Non human primates show failure rates around 90%.

Superior Human Relevant Technologies Already Exist New Approach Methods (NAMs) such as human derived organoids, organs on a chip (lung, brain, liver, etc.), in silico computational models, and direct human research provide more accurate, faster, and ethically sound results without harming animals. These tools are already succeeding in cancer, COVID, Zika, and cystic fibrosis research.

It’s Time to Redirect Taxpayer Dollars Nearly half of the NIH’s ~$40 -47 billion budget (roughly $23 billion annually) funds animal experiments with poor returns. Shifting funding to NAMs would accelerate treatments, save money, reduce delays in patient care, and align with both ethics and better science. Public pressure on lawmakers and institutions can speed this transition.
About the Guest
Mackensey Alexander is a law student at Lewis & Clark Law School in Portland, Oregon, where she works with the Animal Law Clinic. She holds an MSc in Bioethics from King’s College London, with research focused on the ethics and scientific limitations of using non-human primates to study human cognitive disorders. Mackenzie previously clerked on veterinary malpractice and dog bite cases in Florida. Her current work centers on legal and ethical strategies to strengthen protections for animals in research and accelerate the shift to non animal methods.

About the Show
Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health explores the intersection of animal welfare, public policy, and human health. Hosted by Dr. Johnny Lieberman, each episode invites changemakers, legal experts, and health advocates to shed light on what really impacts our communities and what we can do about it.
About the Host
Dr. Johnny Lieberman is a physician, public health advocate, and lifelong animal lover with a passion for connecting the dots between animal welfare, human behavior, and the systems that shape our lives. With a background in both medicine and public health policy, Johnny brings a unique lens to conversations about how our treatment of animals impacts human health, the environment, and social justice.
In Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Johnny brings warmth, curiosity, and a dash of wit to tough conversations that matter. From exposing the realities of factory farming to uncovering the links between zoonotic diseases and our food systems, his goal is to empower listeners to be informed, compassionate, and engaged citizens while still keeping it real (and sometimes bringing in puppies).
Whether he's discussing legislative loopholes or snuggling his rescue dog between recordings, Dr. Lieberman believes that creating a healthier world starts with how we treat its most vulnerable beings.
Email: [email protected]

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32min

FAQs about Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health:

How many episodes does Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health have?

The podcast currently has 32 episodes available.