In this episode, Ryan and Cliff go deep into the real-world realities of pack animals — goats, llamas, horses, and mules — and why experience, animal behavior, stress, and decision-making matter far more than gear specs or romantic ideas of “backcountry horsepower.”

Ryan and Cliff also discuss the drop testing of optics and the myth that most modern rifle scopes hold zero.

Ryan's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/avery_adventures
Rokslide: https://www.rokslide.com/

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

Real-world discussion on hunting bullets, suppressor design, long-range ethics, thermal optics, and how modern technology is changing effective range, shot selection, and fair-chase decisions in Western big game hunting.

Ryan's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/avery_adventures/
Rokslide Forum: https://www.rokslide.com/

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

What actually separates a professional guide from a good hunter?
Cliff and Jay Scott break down how real experience changes judgment. Calm under pressure, controlling variables, and why most missed shots are process failures. Not shooter failures.

The Tricer micro-panning device we discuss at the end of the video, Use CLIFFG for 10% off: https://tricer.com/products/tricer-360

From there, the discussion moves into distance, animal awareness, and the concept of the “bubble.” Cliff and Jay explain why getting closer is not always better, especially for wary species like Coues deer. Staying outside an animal’s awareness buys time, reduces mistakes, and creates higher-probability shots. This is not about extreme distance. It is about efficiency and control.

The back half of the episode shifts into gear and optics. They break down real use cases for image-stabilized binoculars and spotting scopes, where they help, where they don’t, and why tripods are not going anywhere. The conversation stays grounded in actual field application, not marketing claims.

The episode closes on perspective. Experience, restraint, and patience are skills built over decades, not seasons.

00:02:00 – Guiding Experience and Perspective
00:06:20 – Booking Hunts and Downside Protection
00:09:20 – What Makes a Professional Guide
00:17:20 – Staying Outside the Animal's Bubble
00:38:10 – Managing Age Class Over Antlers
00:40:55 – Harvest Limits and Real Results 
00:49:40 – Tag Filling and Modern Pressure
00:52:00 – Social Media and Validation
00:59:20 – Judging Animals With Confidence
01:04:20 – Underrated Hunts and Value
01:07:40 – Image Stabilized Optics Use Cases
01:14:30 – Tripods, Glassing, and Field Judgment

Resources from Jay Scott
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayscottoutdoors/?hl=en
Website: http://jayscottoutdoorspodcast.com/
Scoring App: https://hornscore.com/

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

Trends and gear relevant to hunters from SHOT Show 2026.

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

Tim Sundles and I rip through member-submitted questions, then go deep when it matters. The back half turns into a dark-timber masterclass: tracking old bulls in snow, reading intent from tracks, avoiding back-trail traps, and making a high-percentage shot in tight timber.

Tim and Kim Sundles run a great YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@buffaloboreammo

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

In this episode, I sit down with Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore for a wide-ranging, no-filter conversation that goes where most hunting podcasts won’t.

We start with elk cartridges and shot placement. Real-world experience killing elk in dark timber, at bad angles, under pressure. We dig into why larger cartridges matter, how bullet construction and penetration actually work, and why “perfect broadside shots” are often a fantasy for serious elk hunters.

From there, the conversation expands into wolves, wildlife management, and what Tim has personally witnessed over decades living and hunting in Idaho and the Frank Church. We talk wolf reintroduction, elk and moose population collapse, government agencies, the Forest Service, and how public land management has drifted far from actual land stewardship.

Tim and Kim Sundles run a great YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@buffaloboreammo

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

Most hunters train hard. Very few train right. In this episode, Cliff sits down with Scott Johnston, co-author of Training for the Uphill Athlete and founder of Evoke Endurance, to break down why high-intensity training actually works against mountain hunters.

They unpack the biggest misconception in hunting fitness: trying to train exhaustion instead of capacity. Scott explains, in plain language, why endurance is a metabolic problem, not a grit problem, and why zone-2 aerobic development is the foundation for moving better, recovering faster, and shooting more accurately under fatigue.

They connect the dots between mountain hunting, special operations selection, and endurance sports, showing why aerobic capacity directly impacts decision-making, fine motor skills, recovery between stalks, and multi-day performance. Cliff ties it back to real guiding experiences with elk, goat, and sheep hunters who simply could not recover once they went anaerobic.

This is not about suffering more. It’s about building a system that actually works when it matters.

Evoke Endurance Backcountry Hunting Program: https://evokeendurance.com/training-plans/backcountry-hunting-training-plan/

TrainingPeaks Marketplace: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/training-plans/other/tp-611567/backcountry-hunting-training-plan

00:00:56 The fitness problem in hunting
00:02:00 Who Scott Johnston is
00:07:00 Why training transfers across sports
00:10:20 Fitness as the only controllable
00:18:30 Aerobic vs anaerobic systems
00:31:30 Aerobic deficiency explained
00:37:30 Time commitment realities
00:45:15 Why hill sprints fail hunters
00:52:00 Recovery and multi day hunts
01:11:00 Fitness impact on shooting accuracy

Resources from Scott and Evoke Endurance:
Evoke Endurance: https://evokeendurance.com/
Training For the Uphill Athlete: https://amzn.to/4qgQ1WQ

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

Most animals aren’t lost because of bad tracking — they’re lost because of bad decisions made in the first few minutes after the shot. In this podcast, Bob Terwilliger and Cliff Gray break down real-world animal recovery, blood trailing, and the ethics of finishing what you start.

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period. Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

In this episode, I sit down with Eric Wilson to break down one of the most common questions I get within the context of his recent successful hunt. DIY vs guided elk hunting.

Eric runs the podcast Do Not Go Quietly - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/do-not-go-quietly-w-eric-wilson/id1675558101

Eric did a full DIY public land elk hunt last year. This season, he went guided. Same hunter, same mindset, completely different experience.

His first hunt was debriefed in this interview - https://youtu.be/SKwO7beqytI

We talk honestly about what changed. The learning curve. Shot opportunities. Elk behavior during the rut. Patience versus forcing moves. Why calling herd bulls is usually overrated. And how having a constant feedback loop with an experienced guide can accelerate your understanding of elk hunting in ways that years of solo hunts often can’t.

This is not a sales pitch for guided hunts. It’s a real conversation about expectations, decision making, ego, social pressure, and how hunters actually get better over time.

If you’re trying to decide whether to stay DIY, go guided, or mix both into your hunting life, this conversation will help you think clearly about what you want out of a hunt and how to get there faster.

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period.

Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter

Looking for Christmas gifts for the hunter or outdoorsman in your life, or just want an excuse to buy yourself more gear you’ll actually use? In this video I walk through my annual hunting gift list built from a full season of guiding and personal hunts. This is stuff that has been beat up in the field and earned its place. 

The Fastest Way to Get Good at Elk Hunting. Period.

Cliff's In-Person Elk Masterclass - https://pursuitwithcliff.com/ElkCourse

---
FOLLOW CLIFF
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/CliffGray
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/Cliffgry/
Facebook - https://facebook.com/PursuitWithCliff

Pursuit With Cliff Podcast
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/interviews-and-podcasts/

Cliff's Hunt Planning and Strategy Membership
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/membership/

Hunt. Fish. Spear. (Experiences, Courses and Seminars)
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/Experiences

Merch
https://pursuitwithcliff.com/shop/

SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
https://PursuitWithCliff.com/#Newsletter