What does it take to finally change? For Matt, it was losing his dad, his second wife walking out, and 30 years of alcohol — all colliding at once. He checked himself into a hardcore six-month program in the Arizona mountains, fought it every step of the way, relapsed, and got back up anyway. Eight years later, he's sitting in detention centers telling his story to men who are right where he used to be. 

In this episode, Matt, Brent, and Jonathan get real about the things nobody wants to talk about — the rage that's just as addictive as the bottle, the childhood wounds that don't show up until you're sober enough to feel them, and the difference between being clean and actually being at peace. Matt opens up about deep therapy work he only started this past year, and what he's still uncovering about himself nearly a decade into recovery. 

They also talk about what it's like to walk into the most hopeless place in the world and try to sell hope — one conversation, one lost sheep at a time. And Jonathan, the self-described "normie" of the group, shares why he keeps showing up, and the friend he lost to addiction that he'll never stop trying to honor. 

If you've ever wondered whether it's too late, or whether change is even possible for someone like you — this one's for you.

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She parked a blue minivan with fake wood panels on the street outside his apartment and sat there. He watched her through the window for thirty minutes, too ashamed of what he'd become to walk down the steps. She wasn't leaving. Fifteen minutes later, he came down — and the next day, at 19, he was in rehab.

That was 1993. What followed was a psychology degree, a master's in social work, an MBA, a stage-four cancer diagnosis at 28, "non-addictive" OxyContin handed to a former heroin addict, and eleven years of trying to think his way out of a disease that doesn't respond to thinking. His sobriety date is August 24, 2017. 

Today John R. co-owns Reprieve Recovery Center, a women's residential program in Mountain Green, Utah. In this conversation with Brent and Jonathan, he talks about getting honest with a Costco manager, why recovery is more unlearning than learning, what his kids said the morning he left for treatment, and the second cancer diagnosis he met with a very different prayer. "Congratulations on God moving you where you couldn't move yourself." 

Stay through the end for a behind-the-scenes conversation after the episode wrapped.

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Brent had never really prayed. When a counselor told him to get on his knees and ask for help, he thought it was ridiculous — but at the bottom of the barrel, he did it anyway. He closed the door, got on the floor, and all he could muster was one word: "Help." Nothing happened. No trumpets, no rush. Then 30 days later he picked up his chip and realized he hadn't thought about drinking once — after years of not being able to go six hours without a drink. 

In this episode, Jonathan and Brent dig into Step 11 — "sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God" — and what it actually looks like to build that connection day by day. They talk about surrender, humility, free will, and the stubborn human habit of grabbing the wheel back the moment things start going well. Along the way: the guy who threw his keys under the bed so he'd have to kneel every morning, a squeegee, a bucket, and the simple truth that showing up is where the miracle starts. 

If you're struggling right now, this one's for you. Because if it worked for Brent, it can work for anybody.

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A psychologist once told Brent he had a fatal disease, handed him a copy of the Big Book, and said, "Don't come back." It took years, but that seed eventually saved his life. In this Father's Day episode, Brent and Jonathan open up about the fathers who shaped them, the fishing trips they still remember, and what it really means to show up sober. Then they dig into Step 9 — making amends — and why it's the hardest step for a reason. It's not step one for a reason: you have to do the work first. And here's the twist most people miss — the amends aren't for the people you hurt. They're for you. Along the way: the "bag of rocks" you've been carrying, why guilt and shame fester like an infection, the courage it takes to face someone you've wronged, and the little seeds people planted that grew years later. If you're wondering how to take that first step, reach out — check the show notes and website. You're not alone.

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Recording from a beautiful island in Thailand, Brent joins Jonathan for a candid conversation about how to protect your sobriety when alcohol is everywhere — summer barbecues, weddings, work trips, casinos, and a condo with a full wall of booze. Brent shares the hard-won tools that keep him grounded: working Step One and truly conceding you're powerless, making a plan before you walk into a tough situation, and never being afraid to pull the rip cord and leave. 

He opens up about his sponsor Horace's brutal honesty ("You're not a dad, you're a drunk"), the terror and freedom of asking for help, and the night he almost "soaked up the atmosphere" at a hotel bar — and called his sponsor instead. Along the way: Bill W. and Dr. Bob, a tuk-tuk driver in Bangkok with a line that changed how Brent handles resentment ("they're in your life, they're out of your life"), and the realization that we're all the same distance from grace. 

Plus, the line at the heart of it all: "Drinking wasn't the problem — drinking was a lot of the answer. When I finally drank enough, I found God." 

If you or someone you love is struggling, this one's a reminder: if Brent can do it, you can too. Reach out. You're not alone. Stay for the behind-the-scenes chat at the end.

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You've been carrying it so long you forgot it was even there. A bag full of rocks slung over your shoulder, one for every resentment, every fear, every thing you swore you'd never tell a soul. 

This week Brent and Jonathan dig into Step Five: admitting to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. Brent shares what it was like walking guys through it at the detention center. The fear in the room, his buddy Matt's challenge that the thing you don't want anyone to know is the thing you need to talk about, and why, the moment it finally comes out of your mouth, half the weight is already gone. 

It's about confession, cleaning the slate, and the freedom of finally setting the bag down. Raw, honest, and full of hope. This one might just help you walk a little lighter.

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It's Memorial Day, and Brent and Jonathan take a moment to reflect on the people who made their lives possible — not just the service members who fought for their freedom, but the mothers, sponsors, and strangers who showed up when they needed it most. 

In this episode, they dig into gratitude as more than a feeling — it's an action. They talk about what it means to break out of autopilot, whether that's in recovery, in a prayer you've said a thousand times, or in the face of a stranger at a checkout counter. Brent shares the story of losing his mom, a dream that gave him peace, and a marble bag full of sobriety chips she'd been quietly saving for years. 

They also get into the hard stuff: job loss, isolation, the moment you realize you're not the only one who's ever felt completely alone — and why that realization can change everything. If you've ever wondered whether things can actually get better, this one's for you.

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What do you say to someone who might be about to kill you? 

Brent found out the hard way on a 12-step call he probably shouldn't have taken alone. Rick was a 275-pound bodybuilder, no shirt, glaring from his bed, looking like he was ready to come through the wall. Brent talked him down slowly, carefully, until Rick finally agreed to go to the hospital. When Rick threw back the blanket to get up, there were ten large knives underneath him. He could have ended it at any moment. He didn't. That's the thing about this work: you never know which conversation is the one that changes everything. 

That thread runs through the whole episode. Jonathan shares a story from his prison ministry about a volunteer named Dave who gets exactly one hour with newly sentenced inmates, sixteen men in one small chapel, and nearly all of them sign up to keep meeting. Brent reflects on Harold Sandoval, the recovering alcoholic who saw straight through his defenses decades ago and planted the seed that eventually took root. And then there's Corey, a brilliant and charismatic guy who kept losing everything to heroin, then walked into five different courtrooms and told judges the flat-out truth, watching each one respond with more grace than either of them expected. 

The conversation lands on willingness: where it comes from, why you can't manufacture it, and why the steps only work when you do them in order. Don't skip to amends. Don't be too smart for this. The dumb ones get sober.

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Growing up in an alcoholic home, Brent knew fear before he knew much else — hiding when his dad came home drunk, holding his breath through holidays. He also knows that the kids watching their parents struggle right now feel exactly the same way.

In this episode, Jonathan shares what happened during his latest Thursday night prison outreach — nine men, one makeshift translator, and a conversation about Step 2 that stopped everyone cold when someone asked, "What does atonement even mean?" Then Brent opens up about the counterintuitive advice he gives families of addicts, why strangers are often better at helping than loved ones, and what it felt like to nearly relapse over a cigarette on a street in Thailand — after 37 years sober.

At the heart of it all: hope. Where it comes from, who gives it, and why one honest conversation with the right person can be more powerful than the disease itself.

Recovery isn't always logical. But it is possible. And we're gonna show up for you.

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After a break, Jonathan and Brent are back—and the conversation goes deep right away. They explore how both of them unexpectedly found themselves working in addiction recovery, the power of spiritual guidance, and what it really means to help people change. From prison classrooms to family interventions, this episode is about hope, hard truths, and the surprising paths that lead us to purpose.

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🙏 If this episode spoke to you, share it with someone who needs a little hope today.