As Americans watched the murder trial of Derek Chauvin unfold, after the killing of unarmed Black man George Floyd last year, several new cases of the police killing minorities – one as young as 13 years old – were unfolding.

The United States is in the middle of an honest debate about the intersection of racism and policing, but reform for the sake of better race relations and more stable communities is elusive.

In this episode, host Steve Clemons speaks with Nana Gyamfi, the president of the National Conference of Black Lawyers, and James Forman, Jr, a professor of law at Yale University, and finds that change is happening - slowly but surely.

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