Football and racism have been making headlines lately, and thanks to social media, players are beginning to speak up against racism. Is football just another workplace where modern racism is prevalent? How can we make sure that this discussion doesn't end up as meaningless hashtags and campaigns, but translate into action? Vivienne Aiyela, Tajean Hutton and John Barnes all join me for this passionate and fascinating discussion.

"Pivotal parts of history have never been addressed, never been answered. People are expected to just move on with it." – Tajean Hutton

Vivienne Aiyela is a diversity & inclusion consultant and Non Executive Director at the London Football Association. Tajean Hutton is the grassroots manager at the anti-discrimination campaign and charity Kick it Out, and the president of the local grassroots club AFC London. John Barnes MBE, a Former England international, joined me for the second part of the podcast.

We cover a wide range of topics, including:

• How much sport mirrors society
• Is there is undue public pressure on this particular sport?
• The lack of visibility in women's sport
• How should sportspeople respond to racism?
• Is the lack of BAME representation at management level a clear evidence of modern racism in football?
• Would it be fair to say that racism in sport is more readily noticed than racism in business?
• The 'black sporting role model' and how it can be problematic
• How talent can get separated from the person

"If you speak up you're considered to be a troublemaker. " – Vivienne Aiyela

And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of Racism at Work: The Danger of Indifference and connect with Professor Binna Kandola OBE on LinkedIn to join the conversation or share your thoughts.

• Grassroots football [1:15]
• ACAS disciplinary investigation [1:35]
• Non-executive director [1:55]
• Paul Canoville: Chelsea pioneer on racism, rehab and redemption [3:07]
• John Barnes [3:09]
• Raheem Sterling, Danny Rose [4:55]
• Women's football ban [11:50]
• FIFA Conference for Equality and Inclusion [12:20]
• Discrimination reports continue to rise in English football, Kick it Out [13:30]
• The glass ceiling in European football report [19:35]
• Chris Hughton's Brighton sacking, Darren Moore's West Brom sacking [23:10]
• 'Rooney rule' introduced to 'address under-representation' of BAME managers [30:52]

Harry and I discussed the role AI has to play in the future of our workplaces and how our bias (conscious or unconscious) can be directly transferred into its algorithms. We also asked how, in order to combat this growing threat, we can all improve our knowledge of the issue and reduce the likelihood of these biases taking hold.

"We've got to ensure that when we're training algorithms to make decisions on our behalf that we're not giving it biased training that we can't undo. " - Harry Gaskell

Harry Gaskell is the Chief Innovation Officer and a Partner at EY UK&I. He is also a Chair at the Employers Network for Equality & Inclusion (enei). You can follow Harry on LinkedIn.

We cover a wide range of topics, including:

• How AI can be used to empower our workplace.
• Could be AI be fairer than humans?
• Sources of bias for AI we need to combat
• What is required to properly train unbiased AI
• Challenges of undoing bias in AI
• Can AI facilitate a fair selection of senior leaders?
• Examples of how AI can fail to tell differences
• Who should be held responsible for AI from a legal perspective
• Potential actions we can implement to make AI systems more accurate
• Is an international standard required to regulate AI?
• Social responsibility and AI

"If we're not careful we might start building AI which is around for decades that was never built around principles such as ethics, social responsibility, accountability, explainability, reliability, lineage." - Harry Gaskell

And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of Racism at Work: The Danger of Indifference and connect with Professor Binna Kandola OBE on LinkedIn to join the conversation or share your thoughts.

• History of AI in healthcare [9:35]
• Amazon scraps secret AI recruiting tool that showed bias against women [11:50]
• Google 'fixed' its racist algorithm by removing gorillas from its image-labeling tech [13:32]
• Is this a wolf? Understanding bias in machine learning [25:03]
• AI is the future – but where are the women? [31:45]
• Trusted AI – IBM Research [34:15]
• Putting artificial intelligence (AI) to work by EY [34:20]

Jason and I discussed how racism is still shockingly prevalent on university campuses and is keenly felt by both students and staff. Increased reporting and social media access may even make it feel as though it's getting worse. With simple, clear steps towards progress, funding in the right areas, collective awakening to the extent of the problems, it's something that can be addressed in an intersectional way.

"You're asking the oppressed to relieve themselves of their own burden. It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever." - Dr. Jason Arday

Dr Jason Arday is a Senior Lecturer in Education at Roehampton University, School of Education, a Visiting Research Fellow at The Ohio State University in the Office of Diversity and Inclusion and a Trustee of the Runnymede Trust, the UK's leading Race Equality Thinktank.

We cover a wide range of topics, including:

• Why is racism at universities still so prevalent, what are the conditions that allow this to happen?
• What's the impact of racism on BAME students?
• The role of the curriculum and why it should reflect the lived experience of a much broader range of students than a largely Euro-centric one.
• Why is there such an attainment gap?
• Staff in academia; the shockingly low levels of BAME representation and the impact of racism and bias on staff wellbeing, including lack of opportunity for BAME students to progress beyond degree level and into academia.
• The importance of intersectionality when addressing equality and how different groups have different funding attached to its progress is problematic.

"There's responsibility on us as individuals to equip ourselves with the best knowledge available to navigate a multi-cultural society." - Dr. Jason Arday

And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of Racism at Work: The Danger of Indifference and connect with Professor Binna Kandola OBE on LinkedIn to join the conversation or share your thoughts.

• The Macpherson report [1:49]
• The Runneymede report [2:16]
• Advanced HE Race Equality Charter [21:31]
• Athena Swan – Equality Challenge Unit [22:36]
• Black in Academia [25:40]

When should we start teaching children about racism, is it ever too early? Young people are living in the same world; they learn about racial difference regardless. Is proper education about racism and its origins the key to unpicking it? Karen Murphy and I discussed how racism shaped history and how it permeates our lives as adults.

"In history there are victims, there are perpetrators, and there are people who don't do anything. Bystanders have shaped history by their inaction." - Karen Murhpy

Karen Murphy is the Director of International Strategy for Facing History and Ourselves. Karen is immersed in a longitudinal study of adolescents from divided societies with identity-based conflicts (South Africa, Northern Ireland, and the United States), and the ways these young people develop as civic actors, including the factors that impede and support their development.

We cover a wide range of topics, including:

• Identity and belonging: the role they play in the development of societies.
• The idea of racism throughout history in different places across the world.
• Informal or formal rules of membership in our communities and countries.
• Where should facing history in ourselves begin.
• The importance of trusting young people with the truth about history and how to approach the conversation.
• Creating an environment which facilitates discussion about race.
• Is it possible to simply "get over" acts of abuse throughout our history?
• The role each of us plays in our own communities to combat acts of racism.

"We do have to trust children with hard conversations. There's this idea that they are innocents and by delaying a conversation is somehow protecting them." - Karen Murphy

And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of Racism at Work: The Danger of Indifference and connect with Professor Binna Kandola OBE on LinkedIn to join the conversation or share your thoughts.

• US modern era [2:25]
• Amendment XIV [2:30]
• Amendment XIII [2:40]
• Jim Crow laws [3:00]
• Eugenics [6:05]
• Apartheid [6:55]
• Northern Ireland sectarian conflict [7:38]
• Treyvon Martin [18:10]
• Democratic citizenship [21:05]
• History of slavery, the Atlantic slave trade, American Civil War, British Empire [24:45]
• How slavery shaped American universities [26:45]
• Voting Rights Act of 1965, Shelby County v. Holder [27:32]
• Affirmative action [29:00]
• Murder of Kitty Genovese, Genovese syndrome/bystander effect [32:00]
• Srebrenica Genocide, Rwandan genocide, Samantha Power's work about genocide [33:50]

In the second episode of the Racism at Work podcast we discussed the qualities, stereotypes and accountability associated with leadership, before delving into the lack of BAME representation at senior level. The role organisations need their leaders to play to drive the vital change we need to have the right conversations, treat diversity as a priority and how effective things like mentorships, sponsorship and networks can be in accelerating development.

"Stereotypical image of a leader? We call them 'snowy white peaks'. People working in that organisation must see those images and think one has to be like that to make it." – Tola Ayoola

Tola Ayoola, is the META Programme Lead at the Cabinet Office. You can connect with Tola on LinkedIn. Chika Aghadiuno, Group Risk Strategy & Analysis Director at Aviva and you can follow her updates on LinkedIn as well.

We cover a wide range of topics, including:

• "Leadership prototypes: how they shape our expectations and assumptions in terms of how leaders should be role models
• Why is there such a lack of BAME people in leaderships roles?
• What tangible changes can or should happen at both an individual level, or a systemic level in order for us to see progress in the future for equal opportunities?
• Why diversity is of staff is a strategic imperative for businesses
• How we can apply a Diversity and Inclusion lens to all steps of the recruitment processes
• Do BAME employee devlopment programs work in accelerating development?
• What can be done to enable BAME people to be more confident in putting themselves forward for more leadership roles
• The legacies that leaders leave behind them
• What's the role of networks, mentors and sponsors in progression of our talent"

"You can tell the difference between an organisation that truly 'gets it', and one where they're just complying and paying lip service. One will have traction and the other will not." – Chika Aghadiuno

And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of Racism at Work: The Danger of Indifference and connect with Professor Binna Kandola OBE on LinkedIn to join the conversation or share your thoughts.

Micro-incivilities by their name are small but have a cumulative effect on the individual. Kiran, Rob and I talk about and how they affect self-esteem, how perpetrators may not even realise they're doing it, making them problematic to identify, report and address. Is the workplace ready - equipped with the knowledge, understanding and language - to even have this conversation yet?

"Until we regard our BAME staff networks as business-critical entities, we will fall short of what our business is capable of." - Rob Neil OBE

Kiran Daurka is a Discrimination & employment lawyer and Partner at Leigh Day. You can connect with her on LinkedIn. Rob Neil OBE is the Chair of the Ministry of Justice UK Diverse Leaders Taskforce. Rob is present on LinkedIn.

We cover a wide range of topics, including:

• Kiran and Rob's witnessing or experiencing this type of behaviour in and outside the workplace.
• How aware people in the workplace usually are about micro-incivilities.
• Are BAME people more likely to be aware of them?
• Are micro-incivilities proactively counteracted in your workplace or industry?
• The effectiveness of current measures meant to address workplace micro-incivilities.
• What has the potential to stop people from reporting these incidents?
• How damaging this type of behaviour could be compared to more overt acts of racism.
• Short and long term effects of being subjected to micro-incivilities as an individual.
• How do we bring unconsciousness or benevolent behaviour into or consciousness.
• Changes which should happen at individual and systemic level to progress in this area.

"If your non-white friends are not talking to you about race, it doesn't mean there's not a problem, it means you're not part of that conversation. They are talking about it elsewhere." - Kiran Daurka

And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of Racism at Work: The Danger of Indifference and connect with Professor Binna Kandola OBE on LinkedIn to join the conversation or share your thoughts.

• Bias in Britain [23:30]
• Let's Talk Race [28:10]
• Complaint as Diversity Work [37:50]
• Race Disparity Unit [45:15]