David Cayley is a Toronto-based Canadian writer and broadcaster, who is known for documenting the philosophies of prominent thinkers of the 20th century - among them, the work of Ivan Illich. Recently, Cayley has been written several powerful works on the Pandemic, including the Prognosis, which was published in Literary Review Canada. He joined me on my podcast to discuss the philosophy of Ivan Illich and how it might be understood in light of recent developments.