In this first installment of our three-part series unpacking Left to Chance: Student Outcomes in Seattle Public Schools (2024), hosts Christie Robertson and Jasmine Pulido sit down with report author Vivian Van Gelder to trace thirty years of reform and turmoil inside Seattle Public Schools.

The story begins in 1990 with the Cresap Audit, a state-commissioned report that deemed the district “nearly ungovernable,” and follows the arrival of Major General John Stanford, the charismatic outsider who redefined Seattle schools as a “market-based system.” Stanford’s three-year tenure (1995-1998) transformed governance, funding, and labor relations—introducing open-choice enrollment, principal “CEOs,” and the 1997 trust agreement between the district and the Seattle Education Association (SEA).

Drawing from Van Gelder’s decade-long research and Left to Chance (Southeast Seattle Education Coalition), this episode examines how these reforms—rooted in neoliberal management theory, school-based decision-making, and business-style accountability—continue to shape Seattle Public Schools today.

📖 Referenced materials

• Left to Chance: Student Outcomes in Seattle Public Schools (Vivian Van Gelder, 2024) 
  • Report Timeline
• Cresap Audit of Seattle Public Schools (1990)
• A Nation at Risk (1983, National Commission on Excellence in Education)

🎧 Listen and read the full transcript at rainydayrecess.org
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Kathleen Smith is running for Seattle School Board District 2, which covers Magnolia, Ballard, North Beach, and Green Lake. Her opponent is Sarah Clark. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Kathleen Smith

• Data scientist at Microsoft
• Parent of 5-year-old entering kindergarten in SPS
• Comes from family of educators
• Attended public schools, then Annie Wright School in Tacoma
• Endorsed by Seattle Education Association

Key Positions

First Priority:

• Add more ways for student school board directors to have power and contribute

On School Board Role:

• Board sets policy and holds district accountable through superintendent
• Currently a disconnect between board and district
• Need balance between micromanaging and providing clear guardrails
• Important to build strong working relationships for alignment

On Superintendent Search:

• Should consider hiring interim superintendent first
• Need someone who will truly listen to community
• Balance listening with leading with confidence
• Must understand Seattle's geographic and demographic diversity

On District Structure:

• Current balance is worst of both worlds
• Schools have accountability (funding tied to enrollment) but no control
• District should be more accountable for quality; schools have more control
• Allow for local differentiation

On When Goals Aren't Met:

• Getting new superintendent is biggest lever for change
• Board doesn't have power to force district to change
• Power is in finding superintendent who will guide needed changes

On Community Engagement:

• Ultimate power is finding right superintendent
• Board can help engage community to define expectations clearly
• If district won't listen, must replace superintendent

On Her Approach:

• Not a policy wonk; brings data analysis and science skills
• Wants clearer metrics for measuring equity
• Known for seeking different perspectives and listening
• Fast learner despite learning curve
• Wants to fight for educator living wages

Other Positions:

• Strongly supports Individuals with Disabilities Education Act
• Sees board role as accountable to voters

Educational Leader She Admires: Her mother (teacher)

Looking Forward to Working With: Liza Rankin

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Kathleen's campaign: https://www.smith-for-schools.com/
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

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Sarah Clark is running for Seattle School Board District 2, which covers NW Seattle including Magnolia, Ballard, North Beach, southern Greenwood, and Green Lake. Her opponent is Kathleen Smith. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Sarah Clark

• Currently serving as District 2 school board director (appointed April 2024, running to retain seat)
• Director of Policy at Seattle Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce
• Master's in Education Policy from University of Washington
• Graduate of Seattle Public Schools (Madrona Elementary, Washington Middle School, Garfield High School, Class of 2003)
• Serves as City of Seattle FEPP Levy and King County Liaison

Key Positions

On Why She's Running:

• Believes in coalition building and comprehensive policymaking
• Wants to involve community more in the work
• District is in crisis deeper than initially understood
• Sees opportunity to fix problems with new generation of collaborative board members
• Wants to set things up for success 10 years from now

On Budget:

• Current budget reflects hope for legislative support
• Also preparing for scenario without enough funding
• Many fixed costs (labor contracts, levies) limit flexibility
• Community engagement is critical part of budget process
• Hard decisions may be necessary if funding doesn't come through

On Student Safety:

• Experienced assault as sophomore at Garfield (drives dedication to this issue)
• Current approach has failed; past models weren't successful either
• Working to convene group of SPS/SPD leaders, community, city council, mayor's office
• Student safety policies need to be flexible and evolve
• Committed to restoring district's relationship with SPD for 2025-2026
• Can't promise school resource officers will return in previous form

On Her Background:

• Was in Highly Capable Program (APP) and experienced segregation by academic programs
• Shocked by difference between advanced classes and regular classes
• Studied equity and legacy of colonialism at UW
• Education opened doors and she wants that access for others
• Has two nieces in SPS

On Her Approach:

• Seeks to collaborate (shaped by playing sports and being on teams)
• Open to hearing from community (ideas, venting, questions)
• Takes responsibility seriously as part of her faith and values
• Hopeful that local action can make impact despite federal challenges
• Ready to develop fresh ideas to meet every student's need

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Sarah's campaign: https://www.sarah4schoolboard.org/
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

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Contact us at [email protected].
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Joe Mizrahi is running for Seattle School Board District 4, which covers Queen Anne, Fremont, Belltown, and South Lake Union. His opponent is Laura Marie Rivera. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Joe Mizrahi

• Secretary Treasurer of UFCW 3000 (represents 60,000 frontline workers)
• Currently serving as District 4 school board director (appointed)
• Parent of three daughters in Seattle Public Schools
• Co-chair of $2 billion pension fund
• Serves on multiple boards
• Has testified to state legislature annually since 2008

Key Positions

First Priority:

• Bring back committee structures for board members
• Need deeper dives on issues

On School Board Role:

• Hold district accountable to voters' values and strategic vision
• Approve budget with eye toward sustainability for next decade
• Be connective tissue with general public

On Superintendent Search:

• Need someone who can hold system accountable
• Strong communication skills and ability to draw in community
• Brings strong vision for district

On District Structure:

• Worst choice is operating halfway between systems
• Likes autonomy for different program choices
• Needs centralization for support and standards
• Every building should have its own feel

On When Goals Aren't Met:

• Hold superintendent accountable through evaluations
• Set meeting agendas to make staff explain issues
• Can reject plans and ask for better ones
• Be careful not to over-rely on standardized tests

On Community Engagement:

• Use board position to bring issues to meetings and agenda
• Example: forced district to address waitlists and enrollment
• Job is to carry community concerns, not tell educators how to do their jobs

Other Positions:

• Strongly supports special education inclusion and dual language immersion
• Sees board role as both trustee and representative

Educational Leader He Admires: His mother (special education teacher who fought for inclusion)

Most Aligned With: School Board President Gina Topp

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Joe's campaign: joe4schools.com
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
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Laura Marie Rivera is running for Seattle School Board District 4, which covers Queen Anne, Belltown, South Lake Union, Downtown to I-5, Pioneer Square area, and parts of Fremont and Wallingford (including Lincoln High School). Her opponent is Joe Mizrahi. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Laura Marie Rivera

• Recently completed Doctor of Education (defended dissertation during campaign)
• Two decades as educator, nonprofit professional
• Founded nonprofit on motherhood and leadership (first-of-its-kind study with nearly 1,000 responses)
• Parent of four: two recent SPS graduates, twins in elementary school
• Member of four unions throughout career
• Went to school in San Juan Unified School District, Sacramento, California

Key Positions

First Priority:

• Restore second school board meeting every month
• More public engagement and better communication with staff

On School Board Role:

• Directors need to be more flexible beyond policy-setting
• Should look at individual students and how they're reaching goals
• Board should facilitate responses when systems aren't working for students

On Superintendent Search:

• Need someone with experience managing large budget and deficit
• Want actual education experience to understand classroom impact
• Board needs to improve relationship with superintendent's office and public
• Concerned current board hasn't set up next superintendent for success

On District Structure:

• Flexibility is key
• Front-line educators and staff should make decisions (they see kids daily)
• All kids don't need same things—they're individuals
• Can't set one approach for 50,000 students at district policy level

On When Goals Aren't Met:

• Goals are modest; would like higher goals
• Must step down to individual level to understand what each child needs
• Could be classroom support, breakfast, undiagnosed learning disability
• Each individual child needs to meet standards for best chance at success

On Community Engagement:

• SPS has talked about engagement and communication for entire decade
• Reducing public engagement was a mistake
• Need to be thoughtful about what to do with community input
• Task force recommendations should not be ignored

Other Positions:

• Strongly supports SPS non-discrimination policy (though notes it doesn't always work in practice)
• Sees board role as both trustee and representative
• Believes budget is a moral document

Educational Leader She Admires: Gina Davis (founder of Gina Davis Institute on Gender in Media)

Looking Forward to Working With: Liza Rankin (though they don't see eye to eye on many things)

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Laura Marie's campaign: https://lauramarie4seattleschools.com/
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
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Janis White is running for Seattle School Board District 5, which covers the Central Area, part of the International District, Leschi, Madrona, Capitol Hill, Madison Valley, Madison Park, Montlake, and Eastlake. Her opponent is Vivian Song. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Janis White

• Lawyer with over 40 years of practice
• Parent of three kids who attended Seattle Public Schools K-12 (graduated 2019 and 2023)
• Former president of Seattle Special Education PTSA
• Former president of Ken Haven Music School board
• Attended public school K-12 in Great Neck, New York
• Has testified at board meetings and state legislature many times

Key Positions

First Priority:

• Bring back standing committees, most urgently budget and finance committee

On School Board Role:

• School board is accountable for proper operation of district (per state law)
• Must have processes to know if district is operating as intended by policies
• Needs regular reporting, school visits, community meetings
• Cannot say reviewing operations isn't part of the job

On Superintendent Search:

• Need proven track record of implementing clear communication standards across large organization
• Experience addressing problematic culture issues
• Must have curiosity mindset about making change happen
• Must identify and address structural issues causing budget deficits

On District Structure:

• Need to find right balance between centralization and site-based management
• Too much centralization discourages community engagement
• Need standards, expectations, and oversight for healthy system
• Process of finding balance would build community support

On When Goals Aren't Met:

• Current goals don't properly follow Targeted Universalism framework
• Board needs to ask more probing questions when goals not met
• Should express concern if staff are resistant to thinking outside the box
• Progress monitoring system has encouraged attention to data

On Community Engagement:

• Large turnouts at board meetings are symptom of failed communication
• Board not aware enough of how community experiences school system
• Guardrails written too negatively (should state what you want, not what you don't)
• Board should respond to issues brought via public testimony

Other Positions:

• Strongly supports inclusive classrooms for students with disabilities
• Doesn't support over-reliance on standardized testing
• School board responsible to students and public at large

Educational Leader She Admires: Vivian Gussin Paley (her kindergarten teacher, MacArthur Fellow)

Looking Forward to Working With: All directors (believes collaboration with all colleagues is essential)

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Janis's campaign: https://www.janisforseattleschools.com/
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
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Vivian Song is running for Seattle School Board District 5, which covers Montlake to the Central District, Leschi to Eastlake, Capitol Hill, Madison Valley, and Madison Park. Her opponent is Janis White. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Vivian Song

• Finance professional and advocate for children
• Parent with kids in both Seattle Public Schools and private school
• Previously served as Seattle School Board director
• Worked directly with SPS's $1.2 billion operating budget
• Served on Levy Oversight Committee
• Member of a union

Key Positions

First Priority:

• Bring back Finance committee and Friday memos
• Add another school board meeting each month

On Structural Deficit:

• Look at largest sources (bus transportation and substitutes)
• Spend money more efficiently while delivering better services

On School Board Role:

• Serving as community representatives has been missing
• District needs to bring community along in decisions
• Lack of community involvement needs to be front and center

On Superintendent Search:

• Need someone good at building a team who can identify their strengths and weaknesses
• Should set plan for first 100 days and a 10-year vision
• Concerned chief academic officer position hasn't been filled

On District Structure:

• Supports hybrid approach balancing centralized and school-based decision making
• Schools should have flexibility in professional development, enrichment, and culturally relevant curriculum
• Central office should ensure equity and set clear goals for student success

On When Goals Aren't Met:

• Board should take action, not merely accept progress monitoring
• Ask what work has been done to understand why strategies haven't worked
• Ensure principals participate in progress monitoring and receive data

On Community Engagement:

• Board should demonstrate awareness and push superintendent to make a plan
• Track and communicate what topics are being heard from community
• Be careful not to listen only to loudest voices

Other Positions:

• Budgeting needs to be equitable and student-centered
• Sees board role as accountable to voters

Educational Leader She Admires: John Stanford

Excited to Work With: Director Joe Mizrahi

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Vivian's campaign: songforseattleschools.com
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
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Jen LaVallee is running for Seattle School Board District 7, which covers South Seattle (Rainier Beach to Mount Baker, including parts of the International District and First Hill). Her opponent is Carol Rava. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Jen LaVallee

• Product designer focusing on research, strategy, and design
• Parent of two elementary school students in Seattle Public Schools
• Has testified at school board meetings and state legislature
• Has served on a board

Key Positions

First Priority:

• Restore board committees with thoughtful construction to ensure recommendations are actionable

On Budget Crisis:

• Solving deficits should not come from large cuts to schools
• Supports independent audits and ensuring budget timelines allow for deep review of impacts
• Board members need to push for stability and growth, not just school-based cuts

On Superintendent Search:

• Need effective management to address central office dysfunction
• Leader who can communicate effectively, test ideas, and look deeply at unintended impacts
• Someone with insight from other districts who can build a better functioning SPS

On District Structure:

• Need a different balance between centralized control and school-based decision making
• Schools have unique programs that make parents excited
• Must ensure all kids meet baselines for success and education quality
• Partnership between central office and school sites needs improvement

On When Goals Aren't Met:

• First assess if the goal was attainable
• Evaluate what steps were taken and be critical about whether they were right steps
• Hold superintendent accountable
• Set up for future success based on learning

On Community Engagement:

• Community expects people to show up and engage
• Too many community values are not part of Student Outcomes Focused Governance framework
• Would be responsive, as she has been in her community for years

Other Positions:

• Strongly supports the Ensuring Educational and Racial Equity policy
• Wants better enrollment planning to reduce October shuffles
• Sees board role as leaning toward representative/accountable to voters, balanced with making hard decisions for long-term benefit

Educational Leader She Admires: Aaron Pribble, her 12th grade teacher who suggested she get tested for dyslexia

Excited to Work With: Director Joe Mizrahi

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Jen's campaign: votelavallee.com
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
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Carol Rava is running for Seattle School Board District 7, which covers South Seattle (east of I-5, south of Jackson). Her opponent is Jen LaVallee. This interview is part of our 2025 Seattle School Board Candidate series. Every Seattle voter will vote on four school board races in the general election: Districts 2, 4, 5, and 7.

About Carol Rava

• Manages $150 million grant-making team at Ascendium philanthropy
• Master's in Education Policy; nearly 30 years in education
• Former Executive Director of Strategic Planning at SPS (2008-2010)
• Parent/stepparent of 5 SPS students across multiple schools
• Completing K-12 Finance certificate from Georgetown University

Key Positions

First Priority:

• End Student Outcomes Focused Governance model
• Restore Finance and Audit oversight committees

On Her Approach:

• Focused on setting goals and aligning how the district works to those goals
• Believes goals need to be transparent and reflect the whole community
• District needs to hold itself accountable and make mid-course corrections when not meeting goals

On District Structure:

• Advocates for consistency in quality across all schools regardless of location
• Believes it's not sustainable for a hundred buildings to pick a hundred different approaches to teaching and curriculum
• Wants balance that allows unique school cultures to thrive while ensuring excellence students and parents can rely on

On Supporting Struggling Students:

• Supports research-based intensive one-to-one tutoring
• Emphasizes disaggregating data to understand who needs help where
• Wants to use best practices and research to provide the right supports

On Community Engagement:

• Board serves as a conduit from the community to the district
• One of the main things the school board can do is hold the superintendent accountable for high quality community engagement

Other Positions:

• Supports district-wide cell phone policy
• Wants [email protected] to actually be responsive

Admires: Jeanette "Mrs. Jones" Jones (Washington Middle School administrator who "believed in every child")

Excited to Work With: Director Gina Topp

Important Info

• Ballots mailed: October 15th | Due: November 4th
• Also listen to: Interviews with all District 2, 4, 5, and 7 candidates at rainydayrecess.org
• Carol's campaign: electcarolrava.com
• Podcast info: rainydayrecess.org | [email protected]

Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
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Co-hosts Christie, Cherylynne, and Jasmine give updates on some SPS developments over the summer, school board election results, and a big change coming soon to Rainy Day Recess.

• July 2 School Board Meeting
• July 30 Special School Board Meeting
• August 27 School Board Meeting
• Fred Podesta Email

• School Board 2025Aug-results-final.pdf

• The Grade
• Seattle Times, August 8, 2025: Backing counted in Seattle School Board primaries; money, not so much
• Seattle Times, August 20, 2025: Seattle teachers’ contract takes new approach to classroom disruptions
• Seattle Times, August 28, 2025: Survey says this is what Seattle schools want in next superintendent

• Cherylynne Crowther: Liberate Disability
  • Sign up for the October 11 workshop - Discover Your IEP Advocacy Style—And Why It's Already Working
• Jasmine Pulido
  • Transportation Justice Limited Series Podcast: Transit in Transition 
  • Available for writing contracts - Email: [email protected]
• Christie Robertson: [email protected]

• District 5 Finalists: Vivian Song and Janis White
• District 4 Finalists: Joe Mizrahi and Laura Marie Rivera
• District 2 Finalists: Sarah Clark and Kathleen Smith

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Support the show

Contact us at [email protected].
Rainy Day Recess music by Lester Mayo, logo by Cheryl Jenrow.