In this episode of Raising Anti-Racist Kids, we use stories from our family’s recent road trip through the South to visit sites tied to the Civil Rights Movement as a way to examine the role of the white parent in a family like ours. We planned the trip around the kids, yes, but also made sure to organize our outings to give Tabitha space as a Black woman to process the sites and experiences on her own time. We also talk about our ongoing efforts to teach our kids real history, so they can organically connect the dots to what they encounter in today’s world, while still centering joy in their experiences.
Below, a lightly edited transcript from our conversation. We’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments!
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Tabitha: Adam and I have a multiracial family. I am a Black multiracial Trinidadian American immigrant woman, and Adam is a…
Adam: White, Ashkenazi Jewish, Minnesotan man.
Tabitha: And we just wrapped up a trip to a couple of Southern states where we took our kids on a civil rights history road trip, and there were a couple instances where we had to really think through how we were going to show up as a multiracial family, both as a whole and as individuals. There were a couple things that we were juggling. We have two small kids, our kids are nine and four, and we wanted to find activities that they can learn from that would be meaningful to them at their ages. But for me, it was the first time that I was experiencing some of this and I wanted to make sure that I was able to be present and process all of the emotions that came up, without thinking about having to run after children, having to make sure that the kids weren't knocking things over, that they were being reverent in certain spaces.
So we decided for some of the sites that you would take the kids to more kid-centered activities since you had been to some of these sites. And I would go to these sites and experience them on my own.
Adam: Yeah, and you actually wrote about this in the last newsletter where you talked a little bit about when we visited the Whitney Plantation in Louisiana. You went ahead. I mean, that was one site, so we couldn't really split up. You went ahead and I found a way to help bring the kids along because that was particularly important. And you still felt that whiteness had a way of overpowering your experience. In some ways,
Tabitha: I wouldn't say it overpowered my experience. I would say that it seeped in. There were instances where I knew that I wanted to process it at my own pace and without having to think about the white people in the group that we were with. But there were instances where there were white people around me — visiting strangers — who would step in front of me while I was looking at sites and displays. So that was something that I also noticed — that whiteness still presented in that space in a kind of dominant way.
Adam: So then when we got to Montgomery, Alabama, and we did a lot of really fun things with the kids and tried to keep them engaged. We did some research beforehand about what museum would be most kid-friendly. We talked to a couple people and everybody agreed that the Legacy Museum from the Equal Justice Initiative was not kid friendly. It's not set up to be kid friendly. It's not set up to be something where you want to bring a four and a nine-year-old.
Tabitha: Let's define kids, right, because I think our nine-year-old would have been able to go through it with me and be able to process some of the experiences and so forth. But our four-year-old definitely would want to be running around. She would want to be touching things. And it was a very reverent space. There were parts of the installations and so forth that were very honest and upfront about the impacts of slavery and about how it showed up in different spaces on bodies and so forth. We wanted to be mindful of bringing the kids into spaces where they can learn, but that were kid appropriate, age appropriate and so forth.
I think you have to know your kid, first of all. You have to know if you've been having these conversations with them before, if they're ready to see some of these things and so forth.
It could be kid appropriate for some kids, but I would recommend maybe for kids that are like 10 and older. But because of the nature of me wanting to be present and not have to worry about pretty much anybody else around me — I just wanted to be present and to process it without, to be honest, without parenting at the same time.
That's something that we had to juggle: how much of the trip were we able to be present for as parents? And how much of the trip did I want to be present for as a Black woman, as a Black immigrant woman who didn't learn this history in school?
Adam: Yeah, I mean, who was the trip for? Because the trip was a family adventure, but a lot of these things that we're learning, we can teach to the nine-year-old, we can teach to the four-year-old in different ways. This in particular, I mean it's not just this site, but this particular site, the way that they present the information, the way that it sort of, when I went, it got at my soul just in the presentation of depictions. I remember the dirt. I remember that they collected from different sites of lynchings. I remember just all these things where if you went and you had to worry about him, our son, then that would have been an extra challenge. And my hope, and I think we achieved it, was that we offered the kids a lesson in civil rights. We offered them lessons in understanding the history while also not looking at what you were engaged in and you having to worry about it.
As a Black woman in a multiracial family, it's okay for me sometimes to center myself. It's okay for me to say, ‘This is what I need.’ For me. I need to be able to be present in this space and to process this at a pace that is okay for me and not have to worry about the kids, not have to worry about anybody else in our group and so forth.
Tabitha: And that was something that I really, to be honest, I struggled with a little bit because I want my son to get this education, I want him to experience these things. So there were moments when I had to make that difficult decision. And I think as parents, as a Black woman in a multiracial family, it's okay for me sometimes to center myself. It's okay for me to say, this is what I need. For me. I need to be able to be present in this space and to process this at a pace that is okay for me and not have to worry about the kids, not have to worry about anybody else in our group and so forth.
Adam: So we went to the Rosa Parks Museum and the kids were processing the information with a lot of unique visuals that were really set up for them. And they got the understanding! They're now in an age where, yes, our older kid can take a lot of this information, but even still little bits at a time is much better for him than how an adult looking at history might want to engage in a museum.
Tabitha: At the Rosa Parks Museum, there was this installation where there was a bus and there was a simulated ride where there was a speaker that was speaking the story of Rosa Parks' experience. And the kids were able, it was like multi, what do you call it?
Adam: Multimedia? Is that what you mean?
Tabitha: Multimedia? Yeah. It was multimedia. So the kids were very engaged in it and I was able to join them for that part. And we actually had you and the kids join me for the Freedom Monument Sculpture Park, which was outside, and the space was huge. So we didn't have to sort of be mindful of their energy levels and the space and it was engaging for them. So they were able to see parts of it.
There was even a moment where I was able to find my name, my last name, St. Bernard, on a wall, which was based on the first census that included Black people after slavery was abolished. So that was interesting for them. They were able to be engaged in that.
So we definitely brought them into parts of the experience that made sense for them. We were just very mindful in the planning stages of me as a Black woman being able to process things at the rate and the pace that I was able to. And that brings me back to the original question: what is the responsibility of a white parent in a multiracial family, particularly as it relates to anti-racist parenting?
We live in this white dominant, white centered country, and the responsibility of the white parents has to include recognizing and being aware of times where Blackness needs to be centered and where white dominance is trying to intrude and push through. And as a family, as the person with white privilege, you have to be able to use your privilege to push back on that.
Adam: Find a way to decenter whiteness, because I can't tell you how to experience something, I can't experience it for you. However, I can take the opportunity to set it up so that you can experience it how you need to. And that was the ultimate goal of a lot of these sites.
Throughout our trip, we were really angling to accomplish a few different things that all de-centered whiteness. One was centering the kids as much as possible through games and experiences for them, but then also recognizing that there were experiences that were for us as a family and experiences that were really for you. I have had the opportunity to learn and unlearn a lot of racist history and how that shows up.
Tabitha: And I also know that I felt that at Whitney Plantation, and I wasn't the only person because — I don’t know if you saw that note that somebody wrote on the reflection board. They wrote on a little Post-it note, “Why are there white people here?” Because it very much felt like a space where white people definitely need to come and get educated and unlearn and learn. But it was such deep and painful and traumatic history for me as a Black person that to have to do it and then have to turn around and see a white person around me, stepping in front of me when I was looking at a display and so forth, was really jarring and reminded me of how white-centered this country is and how sometimes white folks take up space when they really should not be taking up space.
I don't actually have a solution to that problem because I do think that white people need to visit Whitney Plantation and they need to visit these sites. But be aware of yourself and be aware that you're coming into these spaces with privilege. I'm going off on a tangent here…
Adam: I remember seeing that question, and I took it as why are you here? Literally ask yourself: “You're here, you're reading this note.” Now, ask yourself, '“Why are you here? What are you hoping to get out of it? And what can you do with this?” And I also took that as, “Keep your distance." Be more aware of your body here than you might be normally in public.”
But if you learn how to be aware of your body here, maybe you can be more aware of your whiteness in public. Maybe you can be aware of, even if it's not yours, how whiteness is showing up around Black friends and family and how that could actually be traumatizing or retraumatizing if you're not aware of it.
I see a lot of defensiveness from white people when it comes to de-centering whiteness. And I think the responsibility of the white parent is to be aware of that defensiveness and to work on kind of disintegrating it so that when the parent who is of the global majority is centered, or the experiences are centered, or the lessons are centered, that doesn't brush up against your sense of self.
Tabitha: Right. And I think just in everyday life, thinking about the responsibility of a white parents, I think within our family we have the power to teach our kids a Black-centered, an immigrant-centered approach to growing and to developing as human beings, which is different from how it is outside of our home. It's so important for us to instill these lessons in them, these lessons around Black-centered joy, around my experience as an immigrant and understanding privilege and so forth. It's important to instill these lessons in them because when they go out into the world, it's different.
And I think you as the white parent, the responsibility has a lot to do with… I see a lot of defensiveness from white people when it comes to de-centering whiteness. And I think the responsibility of the white parent is to be aware of that defensiveness and to work on kind of disintegrating it so that when the parent who is of the global majority is centered, or the experiences are centered, or the lessons are centered, that doesn't brush up against your sense of self.
Adam: Yeah, I mean I think it's an interesting phrasing of ‘disintegrating’ it because it's the idea that it doesn't go away all at once, just go poof. It sort of just disintegrates little by little, by little by little. You have to start to become aware and erode it and really work at it.
I remember, we went from Louisiana through Alabama. I remember driving into Selma and as we were going in, we saw a school being let out. Selma is a majority Black city. I think I've looked it up, like 80% Black, and you have a school that's all white. I remember looking at dismissal, I remember looking at people who were driving out. I think there were maybe one or two Black families. And I remember thinking, even in a place that has dealt with this, reckoned with this, it keeps coming back and coming back. How does it play out every day? What are the subtle ways that it shows up? How can we talk to our kids about the subtle ways that it shows up?
So that was my hope kind of throughout — to identify lessons that we could learn, ways that the kids could see me de-centering myself, but then also having them have a good time and letting you experience how you need to experience.
Tabitha: And I think no part of this country has dealt with racism. I think we're all in the process of actively addressing the history and dealing with new forms of racism as it keeps popping up. And it's a constant process. It's a constant—I would even use the word like struggle. It's a constant struggle. On this trip, we wanted to help the kids learn history in a kid-centered way, but also help them witness and see experiences that were not white dominant or white centered.
Adam: So from Montgomery, we stopped in Tuskegee to visit the site of the airmen. We didn't go to the university or the town, but we actually stopped at the site, which is a national park now, and found very interesting things for the kids to see about airplanes. Then we went to the MLK sites when we were in Atlanta. A lot of the stuff is to help the kids build positive experiences with these trips.
One of our goals for this trip was if the kids have positive experiences with learning about this history, and they'll be more likely to see where it pops up in their life. We live in the northeast, but to see: how does it still show up every single day? Because they're learning, they're experiencing this, they are saying to themselves, MLK was very interesting, but that's not the only thing. There's all this history that it's so important to learn about.
Tabitha: But I also think that there are times, there are moments where we need to reckon with the pain and we need to reckon with the struggle and the suffering and so forth. And especially for our nine-year-old, he's old enough to understand that not everything has to be positive, that not everything has to have a rosy glow on it. That there are parts of history, there are parts of present day that have to do with racism that are traumatic and that are awful. And it's okay for him to know that.
There was this balance of centering joy in their experiences, but also allowing them to face history in a kid-appropriate way. And I think at nine years old, he's able to understand that balance because he's learned about Ruby Bridges at school. So when we went to the school that she had gone to in New Orleans, he was able to make that connection.
Adam: One thing about Ruby Bridges is that his school does it in a fun way, and that's where he connected with it. He's like, oh, I remember walking to school and they had him make a poster, remember that. And so that, because he made the poster, he's like, oh, that's Ruby Bridges!
We can go back to the original topic here, which is de-centering the white parent by asking the white parent, ‘What's the decentering of white parents?’
Tabitha: I mean, but that's the reality in that. How do you decenter whiteness while addressing whiteness?
Adam: Without naming it...
Tabitha: You have to name it and you have to face it head on. We live in a country where whiteness is all around us and it's dominant. And the question is always, what do white people do about that? How do you actually decenter whiteness in your life as a white person when you're showing up in white skin and when you're benefiting actively from being a white person? And I think it's difficult, but it starts with that education.
Our goal with this trip was to educate the family as a whole. Because, I don’t know if you felt this way, but I felt like I learned so much. I felt like it was such an impactful experience for me. I feel like the kids learned a lot, but I felt like us as adults, we learned.
And it starts with educating yourself. Learning. Continuous learning is the first one of our six Building Blocks of Antiracist Parenting. If you want to see more about that, go to our website raisingantiracistkids.com and read all of the six building blocks. That continuous education of yourself as the parent is so important as a white parent. And I think it starts there. It's step number one, don't let it end there. You got to take it into steps 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. But the very beginning is that unlearning and learning.
Adam: Yeah. And going back to your original question, what is the responsibility of the white parent in a multiracial relationship? One, it's the same as the responsibility of a white parent in white families because we all have to be doing this Continuous Learning. We all have to be de-centering our whiteness. But using the building blocks is also where I start. And so understanding who's in our community, how are we engaging as a couple, how are we showing that to the kids? How are we showing ourselves to the world as a couple in our conversation?
So if we're having a podcast, who's getting the most airtime? I think even things like that, all of that stuff has to be considered. It's not magic, like, oh, we're going to knock everything out. No, it's actually we have to really be day by day by day.
You and I check in a lot. You and I talk about this a lot. You and I think about how we show up in spaces and the spaces literally that we show up in. We try to be very intentional about them.
Tabitha: I think it's also, we make mistakes and it's messy because we're human beings and it's hard. And because we create this framework within our family and then our kids go out into the world and it's white dominant in this country. It's always hard. So if you're listening, give yourself some grace, but keep at it all the time.
But yes, white parents and white families also have a responsibility to do this unlearning and learning. And they have a similar responsibility to decenter whiteness. But particularly when a white parent is the parent of children who are Black, children who are of the global majority, who have heritage of the global majority, your kids are looking to you as an example. They're looking to you to see their first example in this world of how you show up in the world and how you decenter whiteness.
You don't want to set up the expectations of whiteness for your own children. And also you don't want the people around you to be setting up the expectations of whiteness for your children.
There's an added sort of necessity to decenter whiteness when your kids are looking at you and they're both seeing themselves reflected in you, but they also need to see examples of what it means to show up in the world as a human being. So if you show up in the world as a human being, as a white person, and you have kids of color and you aren't aware of yourself and your sense of whiteness, then you're projecting this onto your children. And that's having an impact on their own perception of themselves as kids with heritage in the global majority, Black kids and so forth.
So as we wrap up today, in summary, the responsibilities of a white parent in a multiracial family as it pertains to anti-racist parenting is to model and emulate de-centering whiteness in the home, at work, on the playground, in how you deal with your children and how you deal with your partner. If you have a partner, it's to decenter whiteness in a way that sets an example for your kids. And that also encourages you to continue to dismantle that within yourself and to continue the process of learning and unlearning for yourself so that you can identify,
Adam: Right. You don't want to set up the expectations of whiteness for your own children.
Tabitha: Exactly.
Adam: And also you don't want the people around you to be setting up the expectations of whiteness for your children.
Tabitha: Exactly, exactly. Especially for kids in multiracial families who have lighter skin. Especially.
Adam: Also, acknowledgement that we should probably have talked about this earlier: when we say multiracial in this podcast episode, we are talking about white and other races, because multiracial families can mean many things. You were raised in a multiracial family.
Tabitha: Exactly. That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right.
So see, even as we talk about de-centering whiteness, we're centering whiteness. It's messy, y'all. It's a work in progress. Messy.
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