After listening to the two episodes Emily and Stephen did without him, Josh takes the chance to speak with Stephen about questions he had about his experience so far at the Methodist church and whether or not Stephen might be finally ready to adopt his coined term, "Christian-ish Agnostic". Stephen is skeptical, but open. Emily is unfortunately not here today.

Host Recommendations

• Stephen: browse and add Calendars of Interest in Google Calendars
• Josh: Handy subscription services

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

In this episode, we explore why fulfilled desires so often fail to satisfy. Recorded in September 2025—before the current football season now in the playoffs, the conversation weaves together stories from the Philadelphia Eagles’ Super Bowl mindset and Stephen’s long search for a Lazuli Bunting to ask a deeper question: what happens when the thing you want finally arrives and still isn’t enough? Drawing from Christian theology, Buddhism, Daoism, and everyday life, we reflect on desire, attachment, joy, and the difference between pleasure and presence—ultimately suggesting that meaning may be found not in reaching a destination, but in learning how to play, pay attention, and remain open to what comes next.

Host Recommendations

• Stephen: Go birding, The Tao Te Ching as translated by Stephen Mitchell
• Josh: The Residence on Netflix, Tour De Pharmacy film
• Emily: Combine two favorite foods into one (spaghetti tacos or pan toast), touch grass, sweaters

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

We're feeling silly out here, so Josh decides it's time we at Ravel finally invent our own typology system.

Host Recommendations

• Stephen: The Complete Enneagram by Beatrice Chestnut, You Were Born For This by Chani Nicholas
• Josh: Game Changer on dropout.tv, go somewhere new
• Emily: Get a new tattoo, deepen a relationship you're enjoying

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

Of course, we had to turn the tables. Because Emily is probably not the only one wondering, "Stephen, why are you going to church if you're still an atheist?"

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

The title kinda says it all. You read that right. Stephen, the atheist of the pod, is now going to church. And he has questions for his new pastor about the denominations practices, motivations, and histories!

Host Recommendations

• Stephen: Hope United Methodist Church in Billings Heights, Montana
• Emily: Try going to a different church every one in a while

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

After a late night road trip full of nostalgia, Josh has questions about what music brings us back to the good ol' days. Especially within the Christian genre, we meander through many songs, bands, and eras of the Christian music we grew up with: good, bad, and cringy. We try to name the silliest Christian song, the silliest Silly song, silliest camp song, and take some serious shots at grifters like Kanye. So enjoy!

And enjoy this TREASURE TROVE of music linked below recommended by each of the hosts!

Host Recommendations

• Stephen: 
  • Song: We Can Do Hard Things by Tish Melton
  • Song: Kiss The Sky by Maren Morris
  • Album: Dark Sun by Dayseeker
  • Album: Color Decay by The Devil Wears Prada
  • Album: Fatalism by Polaris
  • Album: Five Score and Seven Years Ago by Relient K
  • Album: Sick Boi by Ren
  • Music Video: Hi Ren by Ren
  • Artist: Roo Panes
  • Album: Turbo by Cory Wong & Dirty Loops
  • Playlist: JAMS
• Josh: 
  • Artist: Gregory Alan Isakov
  • Artist: Remi Wolf
  • Artist: The Band CAMINO
  • Artist: Jonsi
  • Artist: Tessa Violet
• Emily: 
  • Album: The Joshua Tree album by U2
  • Artist: The Rocket Summer
  • Song: Peach Fuzz by Caamp
  • Song: Jericho by Iniko
  • Song: No Regrets by JAHKOY
  • Song: Come and Get Your Love by Red Bone
  • Song: Lost In The Woods from Frozen 2

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

It's a boys night! Josh and Stephen are left alone to talk about religion in the workplace. It felt fitting, after all, to let the pastor have a break for this one, considering her workplace IS her religion. We get into public shows of faith at work, evangelism in the cubicles, and what exactly "makes us different."

Host Recommendations

• Josh: Phrases on a tilt
• Stephen: LEGOs

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

There are still quite a few things we've never done here at Ravel. One of them was playing games on air. So we change that today, as Stephen leads us through a bracket style challenge game, pitting 32 ancient and modern heresies against each other in order to find the ultimate ICK! Grab a drink, play along, and learn a little bit about what Christians through the ages have cared about enough to condemn certain ideas as (scare quotes) HERESY!

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

... but we're actually not going anywhere! Just different.

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv

Natural disasters often ignite spiritual reflection, but what if the apocalypse isn’t destruction, but transformation? In this episode, we trace the line between eschatology and ecology, questioning the theology that sees disaster as divine judgment and exploring what it means to live as responsible stewards in a world crying out for renewal.

Host Recommendations

• Stephen: Octavia Butler's Earth Seed series
• Josh: Get a dog, if you can
• Emily: Explore new hobbies

Join us:

• Join our free Discord community by emailing us at [email protected] for an invite link!
• Take a minute to drop us a 5-star rating and a 1-2 sentence review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!

Credits:

• Theme Song: In Full Color by Louie Zong on Spotify and Bandcamp
• Artwork: Yarn and Ravel by Dixie Lee Henning @dixieleedraws
• Produced by Stephen Henning, Josh Lieuallen, and Emily Rettinghouse
• Editing/Audio Engineering by Stephen Henning
• Certified Organic benediction by Reverend Emily Rettinghouse, MDiv