INTRODUCTION:
Luanne loves unpacking tough subject matter that others may find hard to discuss. She’s drawn to gritty realism and believes there are others out there who share her curiosity about taboo topics. Luanne has a witty sense of humor and loves finding ways to connect with other people.
Luanne is originally from Kentucky and spent her career as a creative writing and film professor at West Chester University outside Philadelphia. She has published literary fiction and poetry in journals, and she continues to write her own work as well as editing these three anthologies: Runaway, Taboos and Transgressions: Stories of Wrongdoings and the one we are currently working on, Muddy Backroads: Stories From Off the Beaten Path. Luanne likes gritty writing, and she champions women writers who are often criticized for tackling darker subjects in fiction. Her fiction has appeared in Puerto del Sol, The Texas Review, Oxford Magazine and other literary journals and anthologies. She has published poetry and nonfiction as well. Luanne has hosted well-received AWP Conference panels focused on women writers and the challenges women face writing gritty material and bad-ass female characters. She last presented a panel on the double-standard women writers encounter compared to men when writing sexual content. Luanne still has her Kentucky accent and her blue collar upbringing stays with her in spite of over 30 years as an academic. The lady has a good sense of humor, even if she prefers gritty writing, and she has way more tattoos than what her mother approved of.
INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):
· An Argument in Favor of Tattoos
· The Importance of Living True to Yourself
· Insight Into the Writing Process
· Coming Out Through Writing
· My Advice to Republicans
· The True Meaning of Freedom
· Is God a Stickler for Rules?
· Jerry Falwell Jr. Fuckery
· Challenging Religious Bullshit
· Why We Need to Get Over Pastors and Church Leadership
CONNECT WITH LUANNE:
Website: https://luanne-smith.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luanne.smith.562
CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:
Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com
YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon
Email: [email protected]
DE’VANNON’S RECOMMENDATIONS:
· Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)
o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370
o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs
· Upwork: https://www.upwork.com
· FreeUp: https://freeup.net
· Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org
· American Legion: https://www.legion.org
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TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00]
You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.
There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.
De'Vannon: Hey everyone. And welcome back to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. I'm so thankful to have you with me again. One more week today, I'm talking with a lady by the name of Luanne Smith and she is an author and an editor and she's here to tell us all about her newest book, taboos and transgressions stories of wrongdoings, a title like that. It really speaks for itself. Does it not?
Now this conversation is gritty. It is real. It is loving. It [00:01:00] is everything you needed to be in so much more. And this episode, we're going to get into an argument in favor of tattoos. We're gonna talk about the importance of living true to yourself, and then talk about whether or not God is really a stickler for the rules, like conservatives, try to make him seem. And then the most darling story is shared with us by Luanne about how her former students. Came out through writing and storytelling and it is just the cutest thing I've ever heard. And I cannot wait for you to hear it. I just know you're going to get a lot out of this episode. Well, hello, Luanne darling. Welcome to the sex jugs in Jesus
pod.
Luanne: Dan, how are ya?
De'Vannon: I'm fucking fantastic. How about yourself?
Luanne: Doing great. Doing great.
De'Vannon: Yeah, like we were talking before we press that we're card button then I'm. I'm jealous of you bitch. Cause you were in fucking Florida or Donnie and knife and I'm in goddamn Baton Rouge, Louisiana at a high today [00:02:00] is like 43 fucking whole degrees.
Luanne: I think I like we're getting up to 75 today, so I'm in the t-shirt and shorts, so,
De'Vannon: If it weren't for this pandemic, I might be recording from Miami or at least
Luanne: that would be so nice. Wouldn't.
De'Vannon: our Los Angeles. My favorite city is Los Angeles. Baton Rouge is not, is not going to do it for me. I cannot wait to move back to California, but here we are today. We're going to be talking about some of your writing. Now you've gifted the world with three books. One's called runaway. The other one is taboos and transgressions stories of wrongdoings.
And I think there's one in the works called I think like muddy Backroads or something like,
Luanne: yeah. Just finishing it up now.
De'Vannon: so tell us tell us about your, your history and why you're drawn to [00:03:00] these taboo books.
Luanne: I'm not sure. I grew up working class in Kentucky and, and I kinda like work that's down and dirty myself to read you know, and, and has a little grip to. And so when I started a work editing these books.
I wanted the stories. I liked to read the ones that have a little grit to them. And, and the runaway story kind of had a funny or runaway book kind of had a funny beginning because I was telling a story about running away.
When I was a kid, my grandfather told me that I would that five-year-olds will get arrested if they cross the street. And so I was afraid to cross the street when I ran away from home and I would just walk up and down, back and forth across the front of the yard. When I ran away and somebody was laughing about that and said, you should do a book on runaway stories.
So it, it, it got more gritty than it did from that little. Funny story. You [00:04:00] know and so we I worked with Lee Zacharias and Michael gills, and we put that book together and then I was listening to a podcast or listening to a masterclass online and with Joyce, Carol Oates, and she was talking about writing taboos and I thought, what a great idea you know, and so it just kind of evolved all of them just kind of evolved, but they're the kind of stories I like to read and, and try to write myself so.
De'Vannon: okay, so you, I'm sorry. You had to away from home. Tell me what was going on that makes you feel like you couldn't stay.
Luanne: Oh, I actually, I had a pretty good childhood. It's not like that. It's but it's I was a stubborn little kid and I'm still a stubborn little adult now. You know, and I always wanted my way. And so I, I would run away from home every now and then just to, you know, because I get mad at mom.
And, and so I'd take off [00:05:00] you know, so that story's not gritty unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess is the better word to say it, but you know you know, it's just me being a, a little brat more than anything else.
De'Vannon: So, so when you would run away, how long would you stay gone? Where would you go?
Luanne: I would go?
to the edge of the yard as close as I could get to the street. I had a dog that would let me get very close to the street cause she'd had a puppy that got run over. So she would stay between me and the street and run away with me. And she'd push against me if I got too close to the street for her taste and, and push me back into the yard.
And so I just walked back and forth with my little barbecue is filled with the you know, and, and it, it wasn't running away, running away. It was just me as a kid thinking I was running away more than anything else.
De'Vannon: [00:06:00] Okay. So then the people who you find for these books that are this, all all true stories or is any of it fiction?
Luanne: Mostly it's fiction?
mostly it's fiction, we're taboos. We've got a couple of true stories in there about, for the most part they're fictional stories. And we just that's what I write and that's what I taught for a long time. And so that's what I leaned towards. You know, but we did have a couple of a true stories coming in for taboos and, and that in particular was a good addition to the piece.
I think we had one or two true stories with runaway and we're, we definitely got a couple in Murray Backroads that are true stories as well. So.
De'Vannon: Okay. So for the ones who were the truth stories Did you find that they, did they say that they got out of the stories as either they achieve any [00:07:00] sort of like emotional release from.
Luanne: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. They got a emotional release or psychological release from.
being able to write their stories and share it. They also wanted to reach out to people who had had similar stories you know, and, and let them know that you can get through it whatever it happens to be.
And, and you can survive it. You know, even if it's something of your own making that is a taboo that you broke. But you know, you can, can. Manage it. And so they definitely wanted to exercise their own demons as same time that they wanted to reach out and make other people feel what they had been through to some extent
De'Vannon: Hmm. So then I'm curious though, the two that we're going to be talking about later in particular, that stood out to me as one that's called from, from the taboos and transgressions book at one is called exit stage [00:08:00] by I think it was Chavis woods. And then the other one is the towel of good families by Sonata, Kamala, or either one of those are true story that you remember.
Luanne: the one from Komal is a true story. Yeah. The what does it fall Tao
of?
De'Vannon: towel of good families.
Luanne: Good families. Yeah. And yeah, that one is, is a non-fiction all the way through. So that was her story, her experience.
De'Vannon: Yeah. Read it, read it very real. And I was very, very drawn to that. So I can't wait to, to dive into that one. So all of all the books that you've come across in written of the true stories that you've heard, what, what, which one was the darkest one or the one that stood out to you the most. Yes.
Luanne: Well that one is that one's an empowering story. The one you mentioned before I think that the the darker ones are the ones where they're dealing with sexual abuse in some way you know, or, or Parental abandonment you know, that type of [00:09:00] thing. And a lot of those stories people write into memoir.
They haven't necessarily sent into this particular, these particular anthologies. But you know, I think I don't know if a should awards PR piece on exit stage is true or not, but I know that she grew up in a small. Middle America town as a gay punk kid. And so she had it rough for a while, you know, with, with that sort of being judged situation.
And so I think that the story exit stage hits close to home. So I don't know that it is true. I think it hits close to home in terms of what her life was, was like growing up in middle America outwardly gay and outwardly you know, with the shaved hair and you know, trying to deliver a life authentically as she wanted to.
You know, but she would [00:10:00] go into St. Louis. To, to find people like her you know, herself, and then she would deal with the bullies when she got back home. And so it was a tough, tough existence, I think. And that's a very common thing, unfortunately. I think you know, and so I think that writing is something that's very important.
She's got a couple of books out and I think they're very important in terms of the statement they make about the, trying to grow up a little bit different. So.
De'Vannon: No worries. Do you find people to submit. There are true stories for these books. Is there a, like some sort of forum or a hub, or it's just like through word of mouth or.
Luanne: A lot of social media, a lot of word of mouth there's a, a big conference of writers called AWP that happens every spring course with COVID, it's been virtual, but that's where you connect up with a lot of people and get the word [00:11:00] out that you're looking for stories. And then I also solicited some stories.
I solicited the piece asked, Chavisa to send me a piece she would. And she sent in exit stage. And I, I have asked Louis Alberto urea is giving us one for Back roads that I'm working on. Now that's a true story and it's a funny story, but it's a true story about trying to find lake Walden and, and ended up with a cow pond and said you know, and so it's, it's combination combination of asking writers that I know writers that I'm interested in.
And then also just getting word out through social media as much as possible that we're looking for manuscripts. And, and what are we S we do a little write-up to tell everybody what we're looking for. And then they decide whether or.
not to submit based on that. [00:12:00]
De'Vannon: Okay. Now when you, yeah, I heard you used the word gritty a couple of times. So
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: what, what, what is, what is gritty to you? Like what, what do you mean by that? Exactly.
Luanne: Doesn't pull conscious, you know, it doesn't back off of the tough subjects. Doesn't back off of anything, you know, makes a point of going on through and telling the story, whether the story is hard to tell or hard to read or disturbing in some way, we certainly have a couple of stories in taboos that are disturbing stories.
Certainly not feel good stories at all. You know, and, and that's the kind of stuff I like to read. It's as a Southern writer, myself, there's a air. Of Southern writing that's referred to as Brit lit and grit lit is, is the tougher side of a writing. And that's where you find Dorothy, Alison and [00:13:00] writers like that, that right.
Sort of sometimes the poor experience growing up in the cell sometimes you know, the experience of, of just trying to survive in a rural environment without having much to live on. And you know, the, the grit lit is what I gravitate towards because in some ways I had a great childhood, I did grow up blue collar and I did grow up without a lot of things.
And it's just something that speaks to me a little bit. I think.
De'Vannon: That's thinking of when you were growing up. I read about when I was researching you, I read about you where you felt like you had more tattoos than your mother approved of
Luanne: Yeah,
De'Vannon: when did you start to start to get tattoos or what age?
Luanne: I was, I was about 30, I think when I got my first one, but that would have been 1989. So I kind of hit it just as a trend was [00:14:00] starting, I think you know, though I was older than most of the people that were getting tattoos at that time. And I got my first one and now I've got to. 10 to 12, including a sleeve on one arm.
And just got a new one on the wrist about two months ago. So I tend to keep going you know, with those tattoos now. Yeah, and that was a little bit of a different thing to do if you're a college professor. But you know, that's assists who I am and I, I appreciate anybody who lives authentically and is true to themselves.
And I've tried to live my life that way as well. Sometimes you, you rub people the wrong way when you do that. You know, but that's tough. That's this is me. This is who I am. Kind of thing.
De'Vannon: Yeah. So going with the tattoos, there was some sort of issue that you had in the early [00:15:00] nineties. As I understand that there was some problems with like the students and the staff at a university, like he just said, it's not really a thing. A college professor does. What sort of controversy happened over your tattoos at work?
Luanne: They had a little bit of an issue with me being tattooed with having specifically having tattoos that show that didn't feel like it was a very professional thing. And, and it was mentioned to me a few times nobody ever came down on me in terms of I might lose my job or something like that, but it was kind of one of those sideways conversations that I had with people that were over me in terms of you know, who they are.
And then you have most of the time the students were cool with it. They didn't. You know, but the, the staff that wanted me to look professional and, and you know, that type of thing, I wore jeans and t-shirts and sneakers and had tattoos. I never looked professional a day in my life, as far as I know.
You know, cause [00:16:00] it's just me. But I think when you teach creative writing, need to be a little bit more informal because the students are critiquing each other's work. And, and it's gotta be a comfortable environment for them. So for me to be there living my life, the way I choose to live it, it brought out there.
Possibilities for living their own lives. I saw that in somebody that was an authority figure and I think it helped a couple of students you know, but I might just be patting myself on the back. I don't know, but I think it did help with a couple of students who thought, well, she could be in this position and have the tattoos and dress the way she dresses and, and be true to herself.
Then I can be true to myself too and, and make a living and, and be the person I want to be. So, you know, that was the message I was trying to send out. And and I think it did help with a couple of students. Even if my bosses didn't [00:17:00] approve too much.
De'Vannon: How do you know they didn't approve? What, like, what did they, what did they say to you?
Luanne: They would ask me if there was certain kind of meeting to cover up so that my tattoos didn't show, or they would ask me to they call me the wild child. You?
know, and there are just couple of things that you know, they would say to me, that sort of let me know that they weren't approving of this.
You know, they would say, oh, another tattoo Gran, huh. You know, and it was looking down their nose at me for doing that kind of thing. It's changing. Now, there are a lot of younger professors who come in with all kinds of tattoos. So this was just a sort of a nineties thing where they were reacting and didn't quite know what to do with a tattooed professor.
Now. A lot more tattooed professors than what they ever expected. I think so. It's, it's acceptable.
De'Vannon: Yeah. I [00:18:00] mean, it reminds me of how, when I it's, like, it's almost like a uniform violation that they kind of were treating you, you know? So you weren't meeting the code.
Luanne: Exactly. Yeah.
De'Vannon: Dress and appearance. Yeah. W every pretty much every job I've ever had, I had some sort of snafu in terms of dress and appearance.
And this is like one of the main reasons. I'm glad I don't work around people anymore because I just don't have the tolerance for the bullshit though. When I was in the military, I had piercings. So that's when I started hanging out in tattoo shops and stuff like that. It's a family, it's like a family community vibe in those tattoo shops and stuff like that.
Not to mention that they can get addictive. never got a tattoo. I was more of a piercer. I was into the
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: blood. I almost got kicked out of the military for wearing piercings in uniform and, you know, and stuff like that. I knew it was wrong, but I was like, fuck it [00:19:00] in. And maybe there is a common thread there.
Commonality amongst people who like to get piercings and who tend to have kind of like a fuck it mentality.
Luanne: Yeah, I hope so. I hope I have a fuck it mentality.
De'Vannon: And then I also, I've always used the word button down shirts. Cause I had these like, you know, like jobs that, you know, was like more like white collar and stuff. And I used to like always, I do like the first three, four buttons, so I could have like a lot of my chest out. Cause I was a vein veiny on their veins.
They're very vain young man. Hey, it was what it was. I always least that likes to have the testicles out there going a little side boob here and there. When I worked at. I worked at the call center it's center point energy and Houston, Texas. And the, the floor managers would come around and tell me, make me button my shirt up and shit all the time.
And [00:20:00] I fuck you, bitch.
You know, you're already tied down to the damn phone. You can't get up and go piss or like jerk off or nothing without the damn phone. And now you can't have your titties out if you want to. Oh, this is just repressed worse
within my boss. And I worked for the Texas workforce commission was totally cool about it. You know, I was meeting my numbers. You can give a shit. If I had my tits out, she was like, I think they look great.
And so never forget her. She was a good, good, good fucking boss. One of the few that I've ever had in my life
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: anyway that, that that's my little there. So so what, so, so you, so you've written [00:21:00] all these books, you have like blogs and stuff on your website. Is there things you want your readers to learn and gain from the body of work that you have.
Luanne: Well, we've been talking about it that authenticity, that be true to yourself, you know, and, and that's I think the More what I try to say with my own work than anything else. And I think the one of my teachers a long time ago when I was a creative writing student said my characters are all sort of these alienated Indi individuals. You know, and I I think he was right about that because they're, they're trying to live a life that a lot of normal society or whatever you want to call, it doesn't necessarily accept. You know. and I think that that's going up against the, the grain, there is something that's common thread in my work and in what I like to read you know, and, and It's not intentional.
It just, it's just what comes out. When [00:22:00] I sit down to write, it's just what I like to read. You know, and, and I don't do it as a political statement. I do it as, as someone who's just always been a little bit different and always will be a little bit different. I, you know, and, and just keep going with that.
Those are the people I gravitate towards are ones that are who they are, you know
De'Vannon: I want to know. So from your, have you ever had anyone who has read any of your books, reach out to you and give you a testimony of how their life changed?
Luanne: I had students do that for sure. You know, and, and they've, they've either read some of my work or they've been in my class where they've heard my talk about. Pushing the story to be what it needs to be. You know, I've had students come out as gay in my class. I've had students tell me afterwards that they've changed their mind for what they want to do with their career.
Cause it's never what they [00:23:00] wanted to do anyway. You know, and so I've had this students certainly follow their own lives a little bit more closely after van and class, I'm not trying to paint myself as any kind of a hero or anything like that. You know, it's just that, that I think if you're, if you're doing it right as a teacher, you do more than just teach what's in the books to learn.
You teach something about life lessons as well. You know, and, and if you reach some students, that's great. That's great. This is one of the reasons I'd never be able to teach in high school, but those parents will be after me all the time with what I want to do
De'Vannon: So when you say they came out as gay, so that they like stand up in the middle of class and be like, Hey, I want everyone to know that I'm gay. How exactly did they come out?
Luanne: and their work in the writing. They came out as gay in their writing and, and came up and told me and asked if it was okay. For them to share this work that, you [00:24:00] know, and would tell me this first time they're telling anybody about this. And I would say, okay, well, we'll be very gentle not critique too hard and, and make sure that this is a comfortable space for you.
You know, and, and it was usually a very accepting space for them. And, and so they, they you know, I've definitely had, I would say probably over the years, four or five students that came out?
in the class through their writing
De'Vannon: So how many students were in the class average size.
Luanne: size.
of the class was about 20 students per class.
De'Vannon: So they were reading what they had written out loud for everyone else.
Luanne: They pass out copies of what they had written and everybody had copies and to take home and read and read and write their responses the stories. You know and then we'd come back the next week and talk about the stories and make suggestions if we felt like anything needed to be changed. [00:25:00]
De'Vannon: Well, hot damn a literary coming out.
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: Hey, that takes a lot of brave braveness. I think braveness is the word. It takes a lot of braveness and boldness to come out in any kind of way. You know, if you feel like that, that's something that you want to do. Huh. And then perhaps you could write about it.
Luanne: Yeah, absolutely.
De'Vannon: let me think about this.
I guess if there's someone out there who feels like they need, need to come out and they don't want to tell whoever, maybe they could write a nice story, you know, write it out just a little bit more. Thorough than like a text in a sitting at tech food B kind of like a personal letter to somebody.
Luanne: yeah. Personal letter or even a fictional story is release of of everything you've been holding in. You know, and so I think that [00:26:00] it's voice, it's a matter of voice it's, it's being able to speak and speak a truth that you experienced. You know, and I think that that's, that's part of the reason I like the gray stuff.
It speaks truth. That's not out there very much. You know, and I think that Part of my own writing. I think I'm just trying to speak a truth about the way I see the world, the way I see people, you know, and I, I certainly think coming out in your writing is, is a way to get your voice out there.
De'Vannon: Okay. So if someone's listening to this and they're saying. Shit. That sound like a good idea, but I'm not a great writer. What advice would you give to people in order to encourage them to hone their writing skills in this, you know, or to this doesn't have to be like something that's going to be like all, you know, a great manifesto or anything like that, you know?
Is there any [00:27:00] advice you would give to people who may feel insecure about their ability to write effectively?
Luanne: Yeah. The more you read the, the people you read they're your teachers more than anybody's standing up in front of the classroom and they'll teach you how to put up my dogs barking in the background. Sorry about that. They're the ones who will teach you how to create the sentence that says it needs to say.
You know, and so yeah read as much as possible. the genre of writing that speaks to you and read as much as possible within that genre. And, and that's, that's where you're going to learn to write. Even in my composition classes, could usually tell which students were readers and which ones weren't because of their skill levels.
And so it was very much a important of, of writing as spear reader as well.
De'Vannon: Did I would add to that, you know, just [00:28:00] start, you know, even if you don't think it's going to come.
Luanne: Oh, absolutely.
De'Vannon: As polished or as nice sounding, just fucking began.
Luanne: Yeah,
De'Vannon: Cause you never know where it could go. And you're going to have to go back and redo it. Anyway, when I write, I like to just get something out there and then go back and then rearrange it and everything like that, and then begins kind of to be like putting a puzzle together in a way.
And it gets to be fun and very relaxing.
Luanne: absolutely. Absolutely. I always told my students that it was like throwing the clay on the pot, on the that you don't have the clay on the wheel to start with, if, And until you have a first draft of something you know, and then you start shaping it, then you start making it into something. So yeah, you're absolutely right.
Just start, just do it.
De'Vannon: And the good outline helps even if it's a simple, basic outline and it starts with the basic skeleton of an outline. And then you come back and add to each bullet point.
Luanne: Yeah, [00:29:00]
De'Vannon: You know, later on. So, so yeah, so it's a good to break it down into small chunkable little parts rather than looking at the whole big monster at one time, because that could be overwhelming.
Luanne: absolutely. And don't take don't think about people reading it first drafts, or just think about what you want to say and then worry about people reading it and, and that sort of thing. After you get that first draft out there, say what you need to say first.
De'Vannon: Right? And then you can be like fish. I said, what I said
Luanne: Exactly. Exactly.
De'Vannon: on my memoir, that's getting ready to come out. Praise God. I think next month is going
Luanne: Oh, awesome.
De'Vannon: it's going for formatting in a week. And so, but I think I've I'm on like the eighth edit of it. So I never would've thought, but it takes a lot of editing and a lot of reworking and reworking and relooking.
But
Luanne: The domes.
De'Vannon: full memoir. If you're just trying to write a coming out story, [00:30:00] honey, you only need a good page or two,
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: a whole 300 page or manifesto. Like what my memoir is like, it's not, you're not needed. Don't need to do all that. I think coming out is a beautiful thing for those people who choose to do it.
I never did it because I have a different personality about that. I don't like to explain myself to people, but people have different value systems and different sort of communities and social backgrounds that they're coming from. So I get that too. So if somebody is listening and they're kind of like me and they're like, my attitude was like this.
If I'm family, can't look at all of this, that's going on over here and you can't figure out that I'm not straight, then I don't know what the fuck is wrong with you because this is abundantly clear over here. So I've never bothered with coming out. I just thought it showing up a guy's like, yeah, either you accept this or you don't, if you don't then fuck
you
Luanne: sure.
De'Vannon: get the fuck.
So, but I know that there's a very masculine man out there for [00:31:00] instance, who are not feminine at all. And can't nobody look at them and tell them they're not.
Luanne: Yeah. Yeah.
De'Vannon: So they don't really have the luxury of being like, well, they should just be able to know that I'm not straight because he's so like macho masculine, so machismo and everything.
So,
Luanne: Still a personal choice. so you know, I mean, like I said, I think that you live in true to yourself. You're living to what you want to do you know, and if you want to come out in whatever way, great. If you are not comfortable doing that or you want to keep yourself in waves and that's your that's living true to yourself too, you know?
So it's, it's a definitely personal choice.
De'Vannon: so as I just don't want to let got us swerve back to something I asked about earlier, where you had made that statement and whatever it is, I was reading about what your mother, you had had more tattoos and your mother would approve of. Was that just kind of like a general statement you were making or did she actually say something about your tattoos?
Luanne: [00:32:00] She would say with a cringe on her face, it's pretty, every time I show her a new one you know, she would, she would no, that was not a thing that she approved of at all. And I think my dad was, had already passed away when I got my first one, because he would have been absolutely upset about it.
No, it's, it's you know, she was okay. I got one on my ankle, first one and, and, you know, one or two here or there, she was like, well, they don't show that much. So if that's okay. But now that I have ones that are. Very blatantly out there. I think she would she would not approve that at all. You know, it's just, why do you want to mark yourself up like that of thing?
De'Vannon: Yeah. You know, when I was growing up in cherish, they would tell us not to get in the Pentecostal church without our recommend to no one. You know, they would tell us, you know, everything's wrong, everything's the devil, you know, piercings tattoos and stuff like that. And then they would use scripture [00:33:00] about, well, you know, the Lord says your body as a temple.
So therefore you should respect that and getting tattoos and piercings the way of disrespecting your body. Okay. So what one would consider to be disrespectful or not is subjective. And so people say like your mom, like the people at church and everything, look at people with tattoos and want to judge them and everything like that.
I think it's bullshit. And I think that it's reflective of people being made uncomfortable by things that that's just not like them.
Luanne: Absolutely. Yeah, I agree totally that they, you know, they disapproved for whatever their personal reasons are and, and a lot of it has to do with, well, you're not acting the way I act. We're not seeing the world the way I see it. You know, and so therefore you're wrong and you're bad and all these other things.
And unfortunately, I think that that's very [00:34:00] much how our society is right now. You know, and, and that's why I think, you know, finding people who are true to themselves is a rarity in some ways. You know, and, and I appreciate that. So,
De'Vannon: It's all I want to offer this. Nugget of Liberty to people out there, which I don't know how many conservative people would be listening to, my show anyway, but just in case somebody might be considering abandoning their conservative ways. You can look at something or someone, you know, you don't really have to have an opinion about it one way or the other,
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: know, you don't have to like it or dislike it.
You don't have to approve it or disapprove it. It could just exist and just leave with a fucking bad, like you don't have to, you don't
have to, do anything. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to react. So I would say to Republicans that I liked that are shade at Republicans as they're the epitome of hate, [00:35:00] hate hypocrisy, judge judgment, being judgmental and all of that.
So if a woman wants to get an abortion, Not your fucking business bitch. If
Luanne: exactly.
De'Vannon: a men want to get married, not your fucking business, how if somebody wants to get pat to shut the fuck up about it and go, it doesn't matter.
Luanne: Mind your business live your life. You know, I agree that couldn't I, you said It perfectly.
De'Vannon: It is so, but I think a lot of people who judge people don't understand how wrapped up in bondage they are by projecting their, that sort of judgment onto people, but that you can't give away what you don't have. So in order for you to try to corral and control people force them to live, like you want them to live means that you are in bondage yourself.
Luanne: Absolutely.
De'Vannon: And so you're not really free, [00:36:00] confident,
Luanne: Hmm.
De'Vannon: free people are like, say our straight allies like, well, I don't care if they're gay or not. It doesn't affect me. I'm, you know, I got other shit to do, know, that person is free
Luanne: Yeah.
Yeah.
De'Vannon: a chord in them. And they see people living their life over there across the street somewhere, they don't feel enraged.
Like they've got to go and do something about it because they are at one within themselves. Republicans are not at one within themselves, know, conservative people who want to comment on people's tattoos who thinks someone's skirts too short, who thinks And you don't understand the concept of sex positivity, you know, you know, in different things like that because you know what they have held within themselves.
They are not whole, therefore they cannot allow the people to just fucking be happy.
Luanne: Right,
De'Vannon: They are happy. That's where it starts. The people are miserable and Republicans are just fucking miserable life. They're just unhappy the lot of them[00:37:00]
though,
Luanne: They live by a lot of rules. Yeah. You know, and.
De'Vannon: go ahead.
Luanne: I was going to say, that's, that's a, you know, one of the things I learned putting that taboos and theology together was the, the, the number of rules we have out there about how you're supposed to live your life. You know, and, and just how ridiculous it is, as long as you're not hurting anybody else, you know,
De'Vannon: Right.
Luanne: you know? Yeah.
De'Vannon: But, you know, what the Lord, as much as it's, you know, he's not really as for rules, as people try to make him seem.
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: these, those, when he was here and let me see, you know, was an instance that happened in the old Testament when David was becoming king and he was on the run, you know, he made his way to the temple and he ate of the holy food.[00:38:00]
He wasn't a priest him or the priest that was against the rules. But he, it was allowed to happen anyway, in then when Jesus was here on the earth, you know, he referenced back to that story because the, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the religious people of the day, the conservative Christian leaders of his day were trying to tell him what you're doing is against the rule, sir.
And he was like, what'd, you know, God didn't make people for rules, rules were made for people.
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: you adjust those rules and you do whatever it takes to keep people in community. You know, you don't be a stickler for the rules to the, to the, to, and then you exile people and discard people, but the rules stay intact,
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: you know, that's, that's not of God.
And so when we get these fundamentalists people like a certain Supreme court justice, Amy called me Baird, you fucking con. And you know, and you know, different people like that, who. Forced, [00:39:00] you know, the world to stay in original rules, no matter what, we're not even a modicum of flexibility. You know, that that is not the way God works and that that's not the way he wants us to work with people.
He wants us to take a second, look at things to readjust our views as time goes on not be rigid in unmovable.
Luanne: Right, right. No. And you know, you absolutely got it right on, you know, I think that I mean I grew up in the south and I grew up in the Bible belt. You know, and so, and my dog is throwing a fit. I'm so sorry, you know, but That's all right, baby.
But you know, it's, it's a. Yeah. know, you interpret the Bible the way you want to interpret a lot of people, I think. And know, and so it's, I want to these are the rules we live by, because that's how price said [00:40:00] to do it. Maybe look again at the Bible and what it actually said. Because it's, it's a little bit you know, interpreted wrong a lot of the time, I think.
De'Vannon: I'm gonna just say this, and then we're going to move onto the towel of good families Huh.
when it comes to and I don't mind the dog, you know what? People like a good organic compensation in this thing. And especially since the coronavirus came to town, everything's done over zoom from home. So people got all kinds of dogs, cats, kids, fucking jeopardy playing in the background, all kinds of things going on.
It is what it is. So I was going to say, yeah, you know, You know, the crazy world we live in, you know, people who tout the name of God are also flinging AK AK for assault rifles and shit from the pulpit, you know, you're conservative Christian people. And then we have our Jerry Falwell's, Jerry Falwell juniors to be more specific.
Actually, I don't know that much about his dad, but you know, I'm just going to put this out there. And Mr. Falwell [00:41:00] Jr. Decided to come out in his own, right. In an article disavowing, everything that he's basically done in terms of religion, he was like, I'm not spiritual. There was pressure on me to be spiritual.
So yeah, that's why it's because the pool boy scandal caught up and then the picture with him, with his pants open with some woman who's not as wife and all of that. And so he finally. He was like, yeah, it was all a ruse. Anyway, it was bullshit. Fuck all this church shit. So y'all so y'all can go and look that up and then take a look and question yourself thoroughly as the, why you pay attention to conservative Christian people who call themselves Christians in the news the day, because they're full of shit.
And so,
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: but keeping in line with religion, the towel, the towel that families by Sanai Kemal was, oh, I think that's a beautiful name. S O N I a H K M a L this story at the Stan and that happening in this story opens with her mother holding her [00:42:00] wooden prayer beads and shit like that, which was a beautiful, beautiful imagery in the sense that it's true.
Luanne: Yeah.
De'Vannon: So right there, you got like a, probably an overly religious woman, you know, already from the get-go. And this woman is telling her daughter not to talk the boys, you know, yada yada yada whoopee. Woo. Because in a lot of overseas religions, you know, men are put on a fucking pedestal and women are like underneath the dirt somewhere, you know, even lower than that.
And honestly, in a lot of ways, that's how Christianity used to be. You know, I don't know. I don't, I wouldn't say it was to that extent, but say like in the Bible say women weren't counted. So when you see like tallies of numbers, of people that don't include females, they only counted the men. You know? So there's that, although the Bible is a middle Eastern texts, it's not American.
So some people try to act like we wrote the book. We did not it's from the middle east. [00:43:00] So you have that influence going on. And so in this story here, this mother is telling her daughter all about what she can't do, because basically she is a female and she has these expectations that are being levied upon her and everything like that.
But what I love about this story is this girl is clapping back at her parents, her mother and she's challenging them. So I'm going to read an excerpt from this.
Luanne: Sure '
De'Vannon: cause she says, where in the Quran does it say girls can't smoke and voice can where in the Koran does it say boys can go topless, but girls can wear in the Koran.
Does it say that my brother can have a telephone installed in his room, but I can't even get one, even though I'm nine years older than him.
And she says she has yet to receive a proper answer or she gets their belief. Baleful gazes and admonitions to stop asking stupid questions.
[00:44:00] They, what you want to say about that? Because I got a lot to say.
Luanne: Yeah. I would say that to S to some extent, that's the heart of the story, you know, and, and the girl or, you know, she keeps it's not a fictional piece. It's a memoir and she keeps, keeps pushing and rebelling to the point where, I mean, she's almost, she's talking to boys almost immediately in the memoir, and then she has a boyfriend and, you know, she hears this rumor about the boyfriend's mother and, and.
And, you know, if she were a good girl, she wouldn't have been in this situation at all, but she's you know, saying, why does it say.
I have to act a certain way? Where, where does it say that I have to act like this? Like you said, and so I'm, I'm why I'm dying to hear what you have [00:45:00] to say. So have at it, baby.
De'Vannon: Well, it reminds me of when I was growing up in church and they would tell us you're not supposed to drink in Dan's masturbate. I would be like we're in the Bible. Does it say that I can't drink for answers? I can see it arguing against access. That, I mean, excess, that makes sense because being drunk is not really all that fun.
So I was just told to basically just be quiet and do what they say. And so there's a rise in people, and this is why people break away from religion is because when we see an accuracies things that don't add up and we question it, we're told to shut the fuck up when I was in seminary. Before I left the fucking teeth professor to straight up admitted.
He was like, yeah, we intend to control the congregation. And I, and I was like, what? And they were like, yeah, that's what we do here that we want to control the congregation. I think he was coming from a Baptist background and I [00:46:00] was like, okay, this is why movies. Like the golden compass never got a second sequel because movies like that are all about like religious control.
Luanne: Yeah. Yeah
De'Vannon: It's like it, this is why like in my ministry my main encouragement to people is to break away from the need of like say pastors and preachers to interpret scripture and stuff like that. if you're going to follow the Koran, if you're going to follow the Hebrew Bible and people are coming up with laws and shit that they can't justify with scripture, the fuck are you doing.
Luanne: yeah, yeah, exactly.
De'Vannon: You know, now, at least though Kieron, the people who read it, read it in its original language Louann. the Bible that this Hebrew Bible here that, that, that Americans use and people use is not even written in its original language,
Luanne: No.
