Read Clean YA with CJ

Full Episode Show Notes Can be Found Here: https://cjmilacci.com/read-clean-ya-with-cj-podcast/ 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase Suspended in the Stars (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3QK6T9s 

EA Hendryx’s Website: https://www.eahcreative.com

EA Hendryx’s Instagram: @createexploreread

Emilie’s Store: https://www.createexploreread.com/store/

Ultimate Christmas Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/tdijpz/epic-christmas-goodies-giveaway

Episode Show Notes:

Introduction:

In this exciting episode of "Read Clean YA with CJ," award-winning young adult author CJ Milacci dives into a captivating interview with EA Hendryx, a talented author who loves creating exciting worlds in space. Join them as they discuss her newest book, "Suspended in the Stars," a thrilling blend of science fantasy that takes readers on an epic adventure across the galaxy.

Exploring the Story:

"Suspended in the Stars" is a must-read for young adults and teens who crave epic adventure and sweet romance. It's a story that blends the excitement of "The Greatest Showman" with the grandeur of "Star Wars." The tale revolves around a girl in hiding and a rogue soldier on the run, brought together by fate to save the galaxy. The story unfolds on a space circus ship, the Spaceship Midway, adding an exciting twist to the adventure.

Meet the Author:

EA Hendryx, a talented author, graphic designer, photographer, and podcaster, shares her creative journey and inspiration behind her first young adult novel. She describes her story as a unique blend of science fiction and fantasy, incorporating advanced technology while leaving room for unexplained phenomena, adding a touch of the unknown to the narrative.

Story Origins:

EA Hendryx takes us back to the moment when the idea for "Suspended in the Stars" first sparked. A walk through an Ohio forest was the catalyst, leading her to imagine a traveling circus in space with a mysterious spy. As she explains, this idea evolved over the years and eventually became the foundation for the book we now know. It's a testament to the power of imagination and how stories can take on a life of their own.

Characters and Transformation:

CJ and Emilie discuss the characters in the story, particularly Renner, the male protagonist, who undergoes a significant transformation throughout the narrative. Renner starts as a carefree character but matures as the story progresses, all while maintaining his love for muffins. EA also highlights Tally, who grapples with issues of identity and the pressure to fulfill certain expectations, making her a relatable character for young readers.

Easter Eggs and Hidden Elements:

The conversation takes an intriguing turn as EA shares some Easter eggs hidden within the story. She mentions the phrase "sweet muffins," which almost got removed from the book but was preserved due to its quirky charm. Additionally, the planet Maloran from another story idea is subtly connected to "Suspended in the Stars," providing a fascinating link between different aspects of her fictional universe.

Deeper Themes:

While EA initially set out to write "Suspended in the Stars" for pure entertainment, she acknowledges that deeper themes emerged during the writing process. The story subtly addresses themes of identity and the struggle to be true to oneself, particularly relevant to young readers navigating the complexities of adolescence. EA believes that, in the end, good should always triumph over evil, and her stories reflect this belief.

Emilie discusses the deeper layers in her book, where entertaining storytelling is interwoven with themes of personal growth and identity. "Suspended in the Stars" is not just a romance but a story that encourages readers to embrace who they are while providing an opportunity to escape into a captivating world.

Emilie's desire is for readers, particularly teens, to be able to relate to and root for the characters in the story. The book presents a clean and enjoyable romance suitable for a wide audience, and it's ultimately a story that resonates with those who seek both entertainment and meaningful messages.

Emilie’s Writing Journey

The conversation delves into the creative process behind the novel and explores Emilie's journey as a writer.

Emilie also touches on her love for writing, which began at a young age when she would craft stories and play with her imagination. Her passion for reading was ignited by books on tape, and the "Harry Potter" series played a significant role in her journey as a reader.

The interview provides insights into Emilie's writing process, her preferences, and her diverse creative interests, including graphic design and playing the guitar. Additionally, she shares her experiences of moving to Indiana and her love for exploring new places with her husband.

CJ Milacci, the podcast host, reveals that Emilie is not only a talented author but also the designer of the remarkable covers for her books. They discuss the importance of book covers in capturing readers' attention and setting the right expectations for the story.

Where to find EA Hendryx

In closing, Emilie shares where readers and listeners can find her and her books. She is most active on Instagram under the handle @createexploreread, where she engages with her audience and discusses her books. For her romantic suspense and cozy mystery novels, readers can visit EmilieHaney.com. 

Conclusion:

"Suspended in the Stars" is a captivating blend of science fantasy, adventure, and deeper themes, making it a must-read for teens and young adults. EA Hendryx's imaginative storytelling offers readers a thrilling escape into a world filled with intriguing characters, exciting technology, and a dash of the unknown. As you immerse yourself in this fantastic story, be prepared to explore the depths of identity and the triumph of good over evil.

Wrapping things Up: from CJ

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with EA Hendryx. Emilie is a truly wonderful human being and I am thankful to have her as my friend, cover designer, and a fellow author on this journey. It was a delight for me to get to have this conversation with her and share it with you.

I had the privilege of writing an endorsement for Suspended in the Stars, and I thought I would share it here: From the soaring heights of a circus spaceship, to the depths of political intrigue and corruption, Suspended in the Stars will bring you to the edge of your seat and careen you through epic twists and turns. Hendryx delivers an adventure of galactic measures that will leave readers desperate for more.

If you’re looking for an intergalactic adventure, with a sweet romance, and a fun sci-fi fantasy escape, you’ll love Suspended in the Stars

Note for Sensitive Readers

I will reiterate what Emilie and I talked about during the episode: this is a kissing book, and the romance is a larger part of the plot. So if you’re not quite sure if you’re ready for a more romance-heavy story, I would have a trusted parent, guardian or friend read it first. There are also some intense action scenes and moments in the story, but nothing at all graphic.

Don’t forget the giveaway!

Emilie has also graciously agreed to be part of our Epic Christmas giveaway, and she’s participating in two different ways! She’s included a copy of Suspended in the Stars and we will also have two additional prizes from her shop: a bookish mug and t-shirt, winners choice. All of her mugs and t-shirts are AMAZING, so be sure to head over to the giveaway page and enter.

Here’s the link: https://kingsumo.com/g/tdijpz/epic-christmas-goodies-giveaway

Coming Next Week

Next week I’ll be talking with my friend and fellow young adult author Clint Hall, author of Steal Fire from the Gods.

This sci-fi story is an adventure, and my chat with Clint was a lot of fun. He’s also a podcast host, so we had some funny moments throughout the interview where it felt like we switched places and he was interviewing me instead of the other way around. So I think you’ll have fun hearing that episode and if you’re looking for an exciting sci-fi read, you’re gonna love Clint’s book.

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend so they can discover exciting, clean young adult books too.  

The Episode Transcript can be found here: https://cjmilacci.com/read-clean-ya-with-cj-podcast/ 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase The Wayward (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3SipuKM 

Tabitha Caplinger’s Website: https://www.tabithacaplinger.com 

Tabitha Caplinger’s Instagram: @sfrhoads.author

Ultimate Christmas Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/tdijpz/epic-christmas-goodies-giveaway

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci

Welcome, my friend. You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories without the objectionable content. I'm your host, award-winning young adult author, CJ Milacci, and in this episode, we are going to dive into an author interview with young adult author Tabitha Caplinger. 

Tabitha Caplinger gets way too emotionally invested in the lives of fictional characters, whether it's obsessing over a book or TV show or getting lost creating her own worlds. Tabitha is the author of the Chronicle of the Three Trilogy, The Wolf Queen, and most recently, The Wayward. She is a lover of good stories and helping others live chosen. When she's not writing book words, she's reheating her coffee, binging a new show or teaching God's word to students. Tabitha, her husband and two beautifully sassy daughters desire to be Jesus with skin on for those around them. They live to love others and for Marvel movies. 

Tabitha, welcome to the show and what a fun bio.

Tabitha Caplinger 

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and yeah I appreciate that you find it fun. Writing author bios is like really hard. I would rather write a whole book than try and summarize things in like those one paragraphs and try to find the fun things that speak to who I am as well as books and so yeah that was probably like several drafts to get it but it's true it's all true.

CJ Milacci

I love it. It turned out great. I think it's fabulous. Yes, it's so great. And sassy daughters make life fun, I'm sure.

Tabitha Caplinger 

Yes, I mean they come by it naturally. It's genetic and so sometimes I'm paying for my own attitude coming back at me, but it's great and I wouldn't have it any other way.

CJ Milacci

So today I'm excited because we're going to be talking about your newest book, The Wayward. So if you could just share a little bit about the story, that would be fabulous.

Tabitha Caplinger

So the wayward is kind of my readers, my arc readers early on dubbed it cottagecore sci-fi, which I loved and I would have never come up with that on my own, but when you read it, it makes sense. Just saying cottagecore sci-fi, I feel like it's like, really? That's not a thing. And it's like, but I made it a thing. And it makes sense when you read this story. 

It's the story of basically Wilder and Declan who live in this mountain community removed from the dome cities of a future earth that are ruled by the Nicanians who humanity refers to as the bringers of peace and somewhere along the line they, after some tragedy and some drama, they find out that the bringers of peace may not exactly be who the world has thought they are and they have to decide whether they will continue to just live in the safety of their little community or if they will reveal the truth that hopefully will bring freedom.

CJ Milacci

Wow, I am so intrigued by this story. It's moved very high on my to be read list. And I just love all the different elements that you've even touched on in your description. And I can't wait to talk more about it.

Can you share a little bit about where this story idea came from?

What is The Wayward About?

Tabitha Caplinger

It's always interesting, my story ideas usually start with one really quick line, a quick glimpse of something that gets me asking questions. A fun one is always my other book, The Wolf Queen. That idea sparked because my youngest daughter was like five at the time and put her little wolf stuffed animal on her head and said, Look, mommy, I'm the wolf queen. And then from there, that sparked a whole book. 

And so for The Wayward, it was really kind of I feel like I was driving in my car and I got an idea for one line. And there's a part in the book where, and I'm going to paraphrase it now because I feel like I like what did I write? I don't know. But the line was basically about how they say when you die, your life flashes before your eyes. But it's funny what makes the highlight real. 

And so that's what kind of started the idea for this story was that line and thinking about, okay, well, who's dying? Whose life is flashing before their eyes and what are the memories that would make the highlight real? And so actually the first character that I kind of came up with was Declan, who is one of the main characters, but in a lot of ways is more secondary to Wilder. But discovering Declan through that moment is what led to discovering Wilder and then...

I, anything that keeps me asking questions, okay, who are these people? Where do they live? What's their story? What's happening? And, and that led to aliens and domed cities. But it started with just that one line.

CJ Milacci 

Oh, I love it. And what a fascinating line, because it just sparks your imagination. Like, oh, what makes the highlight real? I love that.

Tabitha Caplinger

Yeah, what? When your life flashes before your eyes, what are the memories that would stick and would pop up in that moment? And really that scene that's not like the beginning of the book, that's like in the middle of the book somewhere, but is one of my favorite scenes in the book.

CJ Milacci 

So the seed of the idea that birthed this whole story was a line. It's fantastic. So.

Tabitha Caplinger

Yeah. And sometimes it's different. Sometimes it's a song lyric. Sometimes it's a random thought. Sometimes it's a photograph. But yeah, that's

CJ Milacci

Yeah, that's so fun. So who do you think would love this story? Readers who like a certain comp title books that are similar to yours. I mean, your initial description was very fun. So I'm sure some readers are already sparking with anticipation here, but yes. But who else do you think, like what do you think would be good comp titles for your book?

Tabitha Caplinger 

Wow. I'm sitting here thinking and I'm like, I had to come up with comp titles for this book. And suddenly I don't remember what any of them are. 

CJ Milacci

Another thing could be tropes, or just things that readers enjoy.

Tabitha Caplinger

Yeah, I think that readers who enjoy dystopian, because in a lot of ways it is a dystopian as well as a sci-fi, but it's a dystopian from a Christian perspective. So It's a dystopian that has not lost all hope. And so I think that, you know, readers who maybe kind of enjoy dystopian, but don't wanna lose kind of the hope and light at the end of the tunnel sort of thing. I think readers who enjoy sci-fi, but maybe sci-fi on the lighter side would enjoy it. 

And really, I just think readers who enjoy something that's kind of character driven and really is about people and how we live life. And there I'm trying to think of tropes that would be in it because I love a good trope and some of my other books I could like fire them off. But this one I think is a little bit more difficult. There's not some of the there's not like a love triangle. There's not a slow burn romance there. There is a little bit of romance. Romance is always a little bit of a secondary theme. And in this book, it's a very different kind of romance because the characters actually are married. And so, or get married. And so it's kind of a different perspective on romance there and on relationships. But I think part of it, I write stories that I love.

And so what I love about this is that it's dystopian with hope. I love that it's got a future earth with this mix of very vintage old world living in Wilder and Declan's community and then very futuristic, um, utilitarian living in the Nikkanian Dome cities. And so that is something that would draw me to a story is just kind of this contrast of worlds.

And really just if you enjoy a story that's about characters and what they're dealing with and how they navigate just some of maybe the hard decisions in life and some of the harder things, then it makes it sound really fun. There's some fun sassy witty stuff in there, but this is probably my most like, out of all my books, this is probably the one that is the most serious in tone. And so other books have a lot more banter, a lot more fluff and fun. And this one is a little bit more intense emotionally, but I think it balances well with hope and faith.

CJ Milacci 

I love that. I write dystopian with hope as well. That's like my favorite genre to kind of play in because I think it's so often dystopian without hope because, you know, that's what we see. But I love, I love that futuristic world and all the what-ifs that come with it and then weaving hope into that mix. I think that's so important and how many people live in this world and feel like it's a dystopian world already because their lives feel that crazy and need that hope, you know, need to know there can be light at the end of the darkest of days. So I love it and I love a good character-driven story. Speaking of characters, do you have a favorite in your books or this is like picking a favorite child? I know in some ways it's hard to do but or really love their personality or something.

Tabitha Caplinger 

And in other books, well, like I have an urban fantasy trilogy and I could pick a favorite character in that one hands down and have no regrets. I would have people be like, are you really, he's your favorite character? And be like, I said what I said. It's him without a doubt. He was the most, I have a character in my trilogy named Lucas and he was my most favorite character to write. And I just adore him. In the wayward, I think... that I really, I really love, I don't think I had a favorite character. I really loved moments with characters. I loved, there are certain moments between Wilder and Declan that I just really fell in love with.

And then there's a character, one of the Nicanians, her name is Hesperia. She's kind of been a fan favorite character because her story arc and just how she grows and changes throughout the book is kind of really cool to watch. And you really, I think, just kind of connect with her and you root for her. 

And then I like writing villains. And so I really love the main villain of this story. He's awful. He is so awful. But there's something fun about writing those characters and just exploring kind of that darkness and pride and arrogance and how when you do that well, it also shows off the light and the hope on the other side. Like I feel like to really show light versus darkness and to really show hope and to really show that kind of perseverance and heroes, like you have to have a good villain who really helps highlight that. And so I really enjoyed the villain. I say he was awful, but he was kind of, but he was like, he was still fun to write.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, well, it's kind of fun to get into the head of the villain and think how to why are they the way they are? Why do they do the things they do? How far are they willing to go to hold to these very dark things? And there is something intriguing about watching that and like you said, it gives that stark contrast then to the light and to the hope and to the good things because it's painted against such a such a black backdrop. 

Let’s talk themes: What are some of the themes in The Wayward?

I know we've talked before about different themes and stuff in books. And I would love to hear some of the themes you've woven into your story.

Tabitha Caplinger

So for the wayward, the main themes that I would point to are this, the idea of truth and freedom and the kind of truth that sets people free and how sometimes that's a hard, inconvenient, uncomfortable truth. Because there's a big tension in the book between comfort and freedom because the two are not necessarily synonymous and writing it at a time when our world was kind of like upending in a lot of ways and I feel like we see that play out a lot on social media and we war against it because we all want to be comfortable. And so we will fight for our comfort and think we're fighting for freedom or we're fighting for fulfillment and comfort is not the same thing. And so creating this world where humans were very comfortable and they were so comfortable they didn't realize they were no longer free. 

And that was that was probably the biggest thing in my mind writing a story. And I don't usually sit down and go, well, OK, here are the themes. I just write a story and what comes out. But this one, more than anything, I think very early on in the book, the theme just screamed at me like this is what this story is about. It's about Wilder and it's about Declan and it's about the Nicanians, but it's about truth and freedom. And and so it was very much at the forefront of my brain in writing it. And what does that look like? And how does that play out? And how do we actually express truth in a way that sets people free? Because you can do it wrong. And it has the opposite of the impact you want it to have. And so it's like our intentions aren't enough. Our methodology has to be right too. And so that was a big part of it for me. And then another theme that is most definitely in there, and I feel like it was kind of secondary, and this was one that definitely just kind of, I wrote the story and it was just there, was valuing life and valuing all life. And what is that really look like? What does that really mean? And what are we willing to sacrifice for that? And so that was that was in there.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, I love that. And I think what a powerful thought to even just sit and think about the difference between comfort and freedom. I don't think that's something that I've ever consciously sat down and thought about. But I love when books even make you think about something in a way you don't expect to. And I think that's so cool that your book has that in it essentially get people thinking, not that I'm saying you're preaching through your story, but at the same time, I think books and stories have, and I've said this before on this podcast, have a way of bringing to light truth so that we can hear it. Because sometimes you don't want to hear freedom and comfort aren't the same thing. 

If we went and posted that on Instagram right now a lot of people would be unhappy. They would not like hearing that. But as you read a story and you watch the reality that these are two very different things for your characters, and you get invested in these characters, and you walk through page after page and see the story unfold and watch that reality become clearer, suddenly that truth starts to sink into our hearts and our minds in a deeper way, which is why I think Jesus used parables so often, right, to show us huge spiritual truths in a story because we don't always like to hear the huge spiritual truth but a story kind of comes in through the back door and you know teaches us something bigger.

Tabitha Caplinger

Yeah. I 100% percent agree with that. It's funny because I think on my web page, I say something very similar because my husband and I have been in pastoral ministry for over 20 years. So that's part of my heart. And sermons are part of my life. But, and I get asked all the time, well, why do you want to write stories? Like why not write nonfiction? Why not write devotionals? Which I do not wish to write, but one of the reasons, and I wrestled with that early on in my writing career was writing stories instead of writing quote unquote sermons or devotions. And it's and that thought of Jesus using parables. 

And I think that story we let our guard down with a story like you when you go into a sermon, when you go into a lecture, when you go into something like that, I think intentionally or not, we all a little bit have our guard up because we have an expectation of what's coming at us. And I think with stories we let our guard down and a lot of times we go in solely to maybe have a moment of escape, of entertainment, to kind of get away from stress. And so because we let our guard down, there's some truths and some things that can get behind our walls that we wouldn't

Yeah, I mean, it's because I really agree. Like you could say to someone, well, your comfort is not the same thing as your freedom. And they would bristle up and be like, well, what do you mean? That doesn't make sense. But then when you paint a picture of it in this story world of, well, here's the people that are very comfortable. But we would not say they are free and we and they're and they paid a price for that comfort price wasn't worth it in the long run. Like in the short term, it seemed like it was because we all, I think, want to be comfortable. There's this piece of us that wants that. And so we will try and maintain our comfort and pay a cost to maintain our comfort. And in the short term, it feels worth it. But in the long term, we'll see that it's not worth it in a lot of ways. And that maybe it was just more palatable. 

Maybe it's because it is coming in the form of these characters that we're connecting with emotionally or these villains that we're hating and we love to hate them, you know, that we just kind of, well, it flips a switch and helps us to see it. But that's one of the reasons that I love telling stories is I think there's things, I think there's things that we all share within the human experience and stories help connect us. And I think that's one of the reasons we let our guard down for a story is because we see the connection we have just as humans and that we all feel the same things sometimes and we all can struggle with very similar things and we're a lot more alike than we are different. And so it gets us in that space of connecting and empathizing and so we're more open to learn.

CJ Milacci

Yes, I agree completely. And there's those stories too, where sometimes, like a truth that we need to hear, and even something like this, where maybe somebody is struggling because they're comfortable, but there's a part of them that knows deep inside that they're not free, that there are something that's still chained, that's still broken and totally held captive. And they are at the same time comfortable in their life. And to read then and hear that truth can penetrate. And I've had stories where I start crying because it's exactly the thing I needed to hear in my life. 

And that reality kind of can break through and just be like, oh, that's what I needed right now. And for that person who maybe is starting to just have that little thing, that little thought in the back of their head, like, yeah, I'm comfortable, but I'm still missing something. You know, there's still more and I know that, but to then walk through your story and discover what that could look like is a powerful, powerful reality. Again, different than me creating a beautiful Instagram graphic or whatever and saying the exact same thing, you know? So, yeah. No, that's fabulous. 

I love what you said to you about how stories can connect us and they do. And I think that's another reason Jesus used parables because they did that. They crossed barriers. They crossed socioeconomic barriers. They crossed, they crossed different cultures. They cross different all over the world. You can say the same kinds of stories and they resonate with a deeper human experience oftentimes. And there's something really powerful in that. And I love that we serve a creative God who loves stories and that he can use them to teach us. And he obviously loves stories because the Bible is full of stories.

Tabitha Caplinger

It's a narrative. Yeah, it's, you know, the Old Testament is the story of God's people in quite a bit of it is in narrative form. I think that God is a storyteller and, you know as part of his creator heart and character. And that's another facet for me, like telling stories is a way to connect with God in worship. And we can't, because whatever we do creatively is a way that we connect with God because he is a creator. He's the creator. And so that's one way we are like him, is a desire to create whatever it is, any form of art or story or music, I mean, anything that we create is a connection to the heart of God. And so it's been really cool to cease telling a story that way and that first and foremost, I just wanna sit down and write a story because it's me and Jesus just having a moment. And then, and I think through that, he bleeds through on the pages, even if it's not overt or...

You know, and that's important to me and who I am as a Jesus follower. Like he's I always say that if our life is a pie, Jesus isn't a slice of the pie, he's the filling and he flavors everything. So he's he shows up and I don't write my stories to be overt or preachy. I just write a story that I love, but he's going to be there because I love him too. And I think that resonates with people even if they don't believe because he is truth. And even if you don't believe that he's truth, that doesn't change the fact that he is truth. And so when his truth and when his person shows up and we get even just a tiny glimpse of him through someone's story, it resonates with us. And that can be so powerful.

CJ Milacci 

I totally agree with everything you're saying. I love that analogy that he's the filling, not just the slice of the pie. That's such a great picture. I love it. My dad's a big pie fan, so whenever it's a dessert time for him, birthday, father's day, he wants a pie. Ha ha ha.

Pie Matchmaking

Tabitha Caplinger

Yeah. I have a thing for pie, so... In my first trilogy, there's a line where a character's like, everybody loves pie. And so they connect over a slice of pie. So that's kind of become a running gag for me, is everybody loves pie. And I'll have someone that's like, no, I don't really like pie. And I'm like, yeah, you do. Because there's so many different types of pie in this world that I guarantee you, there is a pie that you like.

You just, there is a pie for you. You maybe just haven't met it yet or, and, and this might be a controversial topic. I've totally gone off on a tangent now, but I submit that cheesecake is in fact a pie because it's a custard and a crust. So it's not really a cake, it's a pie. And so if you like cheesecake, you like pie. I will allow that as an answer in, in the pie category. But I, the number of times that pie comes up in a conversation.

CJ Milacci 

Yeah. Like right now, it's perfect. So if you're listening and you hate pie, we wanna hear from you so that we can convince you that pie is something that you love.

Tabitha Caplinger

So that we can, and I will find a pie for you. Like I had a friend that she's like, I don't like pie. I was like no, and I started asking questions. Like I'm trying to match her. Like I'm a pie matchmaker and I'm like, well, do you like chocolate chip cookies? And she's like, yeah, I love them. I was like, do you love it when they're like warm and gooey straight out of the oven? She's like, yes, I'm like Nestle Toll House pie. Like it's a giant chocolate chip cookie and a crust. Like, how do you not like that? It's.

CJ Milacci

I love it.

If you're looking for your pie match, you have to go to Tabitha's website, contact her and you are going to find. Yes.

Tabitha Caplinger 

Yeah. Send me a message on Instagram. I will walk you, I will walk you down that road. We will find a pie for you. Hmm.

CJ Milacci

Journey to your favorite pie. I love it. 

What started Tabitha Caplinger on her Author Journey?

So as we kind of come to nearing the end here, I would just love to hear a little bit about you and what started you on your author journey and why. I mean, we've talked a little bit about why you write and why you love to write, but I would love to hear what was that sort of catalyst moment that sent you on this road to being an author?

Tabitha Caplinger 

That is always an interesting story. So I, again, I am a pastor. I've been in ministry for 20 years. We, well, for over 20 years, we did youth ministry for 20 years. And so students and teenagers were my thing for 20 years. That's who I did life with and ministered to. And we, my husband, I just recently transitioned out of youth ministry into some other things and now we lead the young adult ministry at our church. So, but, and so really for a long time, like I said, I've been doing that for over 20 years. I'm a pastor's kid, but, and I've only been writing stories for 10 years.

But kind of, I feel like God took me on a weird journey to get there. I have always loved stories. I have always had a very vivid imagination. I feel like even as a small child, I always had a story going on in my head. I was like imagining things, like building forts in the woods.

There's always there was with the story there was always a story in my head and it was always like weird It couldn't be like just normal. It's like if we're built it was we're not building a fort in the woods we are it's a base camp on another planet and Because I had to be like extra about it, but that was always going on in my head, but I never really considered writing as what I wanted to do for a career. I don't think I made that connection. I also loved horses, so really early on, I wanted to maybe be an equine vet. And then, and really that was my plan for a really long time. And I can't tell you what changed it. I cannot tell, I cannot pinpoint a moment where I got a different idea. I'm sure that one happened, but I don't know what it was. I graduated from high school.

I went to college, I took a semester off, but then I went to college for a couple semesters. I went to Sweetbriar College in Virginia and I love that school. It's like the most beautiful campus ever and it's an all girls school and it's filled with lots of tradition and beauty and it was just a beautiful place to be for that time of my life. And

I started a semester late and so I went in and somewhere during that semester off between graduating high school and going, something changed from being like a veterinarian, and I thank God for that because I could not handle being a veterinarian and he knew, to wanting to study journalism or photojournalism.

Again, I don't know why. I don't know where. I probably saw some movie and was like, that looks cool. But I got to the school and they didn't really have a journalism major, because it's a smaller college. And at least they didn't have one at the time. This was a long time ago. And all the photography classes were full. So I'm like, what do I do? I know they want me to declare a major and I got to pick classes. And that's what I thought I was going to do. And those classes either don't exist or are full. And so creative writing was an option. I was like, well, that feels, it's writing. And so if I wanna do journalism, writing is writing. I'll just take a bunch of writing classes. That was literally my thought process. I realize now that make, like that's not, that's not really how things work. But at the time in my like, yeah, in my like 18 year old brain, it was like, sure, why not?

Like, let's just do this. And so for the two semesters I was there, I took creative writing classes and most of my classes were writing classes because I had already exempted out of some of the other gen ed courses aside from like physics and fencing, which still plays in because I write about sword fights. I took novel writing and I took poetry writing and I took composition and I just took a bunch of writing classes. My professors for those classes were poets and New York Times bestselling authors. 

My faculty advisor was a New York Times bestselling author and married to my other professors, John and Carrie Brown, who I absolutely loved her. I was so thankful for them. And for a lot of Carrie's classes, we would just sit in the reading room of the library, which was this big like library room with a fireplace and sofas. And she would make hot cocoa and tea and have cookies. And we would talk about what we wrote. And we would just sit around and read each other's writing and talk about it. And it was wonderful. And so I took all of those classes and thinking still not thinking that I'm going to like write stories. I mean, I loved it. And I think I fell more in love with writing at that time at Sweetbriar. And then God really started working in my heart about ministry and pastoral ministry. So I left Sweetbriar to do Bible college. 

And it took 10 years to actually sit down and write a story. A lot of it was wrestling with the fact that can a pastor write the kind of stories I want to write. I felt like there was this expectation that pastors write nonfiction, which feels stupid, but it was very much in my brain that if you're gonna spend time writing, it needs to be this. And it was like, it took time for me to connect that stories could be ministry, and stories could be part of that, and they could all those parts of my life could thread together. I didn't quite get that. And we were doing full-time ministry and I was having babies. And so I just put writing on the back burner. 

God doesn’t waste anything

And then like I said, probably about 10, it's probably more than 10 years ago now, probably it's actually like 12, 13 years ago now is when I got the idea for my first book and started writing it and wrestled with God the whole way through. And so that's a really long answer as to how I started writing or why I started writing, but that's it was this really weird kind of curvy road that God took me on to get there. But the funny part about it was probably about my third book I was having a crisis of imposter syndrome I should not be doing this. Like there, I am not great. Like am I even good at this? You know, you just have that moment where you just doubt everything you've ever done in life and you question all of your choices. And like, should I keep writing? Is this worth it? You know, there's people that are so much better than me. And one of the thoughts that kept coming to my head is, like there's so many of these writers that you look up to, like this is what they studied in college and they took writing courses and they have degrees and they took all of these classes to learn their craft and you didn't do any of that. Like, so who do you think you are that you get, you can write a book when you haven't studied this? And that was the thought that the intrusive thought that kept, I kept battling with. 

And then one day I was praying and the Holy Spirit was like, but you did take all those classes. And I was like, you know what I did? You're right. I kind of like, it was, I was so far, my writing was so far removed from those semesters at Sweetbriar that like I forgot. And the cool part about that is when I left Sweetbriar to go to Bible college, I felt like I had wasted God's time.

I felt like I was never supposed to go there. I felt like, you know, I was behind the game on, you know, my Bible college stuff and that it had all been like this waste. And in that moment when God was like, but you did take all those classes and I was getting ready to publish my third book, it was like that moment where God was like, because I redeem all things and I use all things and that thing that you thought was a mistake and was just a waste, I knew all along was gonna end up right here. And so it wasn't a waste and it wasn't a mistake and that was just a really cool, that was a sidebar but that was a really cool moment for me.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, I love that. I think that's especially for teens and young adults in that stage of life right now where they're trying to figure things out.

And honestly, it's really hard when you're 17, 18, 19, to figure out what to do with your life. And you're gonna change your mind, and God's gonna lead in different ways. But that reality that nothing is wasted in his hands. And even like, he's always looking to make us into the image of Christ, right? More so than have us do great things for him. He wants us to know him first and foremost, and make us more like him, so that we can be more fulfilled as we walk in the things he has for us. And I love how he led you on what you thought was a detour, but it was his plan and his training the whole time. And I think especially for young people who feel discouraged because they do feel God calling them into another route right now than maybe what they are doing, just know that like nothing is wasted with him. And the relationships you have, the people whose lives you impact and whose lives impact you and the things you learn in those seasons, in God's hands, they're never wasted, even when it feels like it was a detour, you know.

Tabitha Caplinger 

For sure.

Absolutely. Yeah. And 19, 20 year old me leaving Sweetbriar to go to do Bible college and work in ministry couldn't see that.

Because at that time, I felt like I was trading one for another. Like, I'm leaving this writing thing behind, and I'm doing something else. God wants me to do something else. And I felt like I had missed God.

Because we get so singularly focused. And I think because there's this narrative that at 18 years old, you have to know what you want to do with your life. And after 20 years in youth ministry, I hate that. And I think we should stop asking 18 year olds to have their entire life figured out in college majors. Like, it's so, like some do, some know, some just know what they want to do. And that's wonderful. Like go you, but a lot don't know. And there's this immense pressure to make these choices at 18, 19 years old that are really for your whole life because they're gonna cost a lot of money. And so to feel like you need to change plans. And like I said, for me, it wasn't so much just changing a major, it was like leaving a school to go do something totally different. And so I couldn't see then what I look back and can see now how God was going, you know, I'm gonna redeem this time. It's not a waste. Like you're gonna use this, you don't know it yet. You can't see it yet, but it'll get used. And, and too, like you said, the people, there were so many people and relationships I had at that time that I know were worthwhile. And sometimes that's the thing too, like the people are always worth it.

The people that you can impact, the people that you can share Jesus with are always worth it. It's never wasted when we can love on someone and show them the love of God and be Jesus with skin on for someone else. But it can be really hard to feel that way in the moment. And so it was just it was that really cool thing. And so I think.

And I think that was part of it too, is going down that whole road so I could have that perspective of things too and be able to share that. And now it's weird because now I can't imagine not writing stories. I can't imagine just that not being part of my life. And I think it was always part of who I was. I just was putting the pieces together and I didn't have them put together yet.

I still don't feel like I have them put together. There's other pieces. Yeah.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, I know. I think once we think we have it put together, then we're in trouble because we need to not feel like we have it put together. So when we get to that blank page or to that thing in our lives that we know God set before us, we need to reach out for him and be like, God, without you, without your spirit at work in me, I cannot do this thing. And I know that when I feel like I've got it all together, I'm usually about to fall flat on my face. So.

Tabitha Caplinger 

Well, and I was also the person, both my husband and I were also the people like, we're gonna be youth pastors until we're 80 years old. Like, we never want to do anything aside from youth ministry. And then here we are in our mid-40s, you know, and really about the time we hit 40, God's starting to change that. And we were like, no, we're good. Like, we like this. We like what we do. And then, you know, God is always so gentle and gracious and kind in the way that He leads us through that and he's so patient with us and in waiting on us to kind of open our eyes to really see what he's doing. But that was a big transition too. That was another time where I thought, I know what the, I've got it all together. All the pieces are together. And then God's like, no, they're not.

The puzzle's bigger than you thought it was. You thought you were done, but there's this other section over here that you haven't gotten to yet. And that's been a really beautiful thing too. I think the older I get, the more I, the more quickly I see the beauty in those moments rather than like panic and stress and anxiety.

CJ Milacci

Right, because it's so easy to go there. But I think the older we get, the more we can look back and see the faithfulness of God, even just knowing, oh, those detours were on purpose. Those things had, you had a plan in it all. So you who have been faithful will continue to be faithful. So it does, you know, age does help with that. So it's a blessing of getting older for sure.

Where can you connect with Tabitha Caplinger and buy her books?

Well, we are running out of time now, but I just would love if you could share with the readers where they can find you and the wayward and all of your other books so they can dive into these great stories.

Tabitha Caplinger 

Okay, well, the one stop shop for everything you wanted to know about me and my books and probably more than you wanted to know is my website, TabithaCaplinger.com. It's got all my books. It's got all the information about me. You can sign up for my email newsletter on my website. It goes out once a month and it does have a devotional thought. And then that's an easy way to keep up with what I'm doing. Go there first so they get fun little tidbits and sneak peeks and updates of all my process and my projects. And then always on social media, most of the time I'm on Instagram @tab_caplinger, but you can find me other places too. I'm on TikTok doing weird like lip sync videos that are just silly, but that's the easiest place to connect with me online.

CJ Milacci

Okay, fabulous. And we'll have links to all of that in the show notes, so it's nice and easy for everyone to find. But Tabitha Kaplinger, thank you for being on Read Clean YA with CJ. It was so much fun getting to talk about all of these different things with you today.

Tabitha Caplinger 

Thank you so much for having me.

Wrapping things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Tabitha Caplinger. This was my first time getting to talk with Tabitha , and it was a blast to get to know her, hear her heart behind her stories, and discover her love of pie. If you lovecharacter-driven dystopian stories filled with hope, I think you’ll enjoy The Wayward.

Since recording this episode, I was able to read The Wayward, and it was a great story. There were twists and turns, and all of the elements Tabitha and I talked about were woven into the story beautifully. It’s an adventure and a great story with moments where I just had to pause and think about what I just read.

Note for Sensitive Readers

Now, I do have to say, this book isn’t strictly YA — the characters are older (early twenties) so it would fit more into the New Adult category — but without all of the bad connotations that come with a typical NA story. As Tabitha mentioned, the villain in this story is very evil, and the alien race is not kind to humans, though they pretend to be. While she’s not overly graphic in her depictions of the violence, there are some scary moments. For my younger or more sensitive readers, I would say it’s probably best to have a trusted parent, guardian, or older friend read this book first. There are intense moments and scenes that could be scary, and there’s a romance in the story that’s sweet. Tabitha also deals with the subject of infertility in this book, which I know can be a trigger for some. 

A New Month and a New Giveaway!

We have entered a new month, and with it, we have the beginning of a new giveaway. Like I mentioned last week, this giveaway is going to be a little different. It’s going to be a big Christmas giveaway, and I’m really excited about it. There will be books from the featured authors of November and December, as well as a lovely candle from Lamplighter Literary Creations, and some fun times from CreateExploreRead. This giveaway will be the perfect “Christmas gift for yourself” if you win. Here’s the link: https://kingsumo.com/g/tdijpz/epic-christmas-goodies-giveaway

Tabitha has graciously agreed to include a paperback copy of The Wayward, so don’t forget to head over to the giveaway page and check it out! There will be a link in the show notes. 

You can find the episode show notes at readcleanya.com.

Coming Next Week

Next week I’ll be talking with my good friend and fellow young adult author E.A. Hendryx, author of Suspended in the Stars. A girl in hiding. A boy on the run. The fate of the galaxy between them.

This sci-fi fantasy is amazing and I loved getting to chat with Emilie. She is my friend and the incredibly talented graphic designer behind my amazing covers. If you’re looking for a fun and mesmerizing read, you’re going to love Suspended in the Stars. Be sure to tune in next week to hear the interview.

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend so they can discover exciting, clean young adult books too.  

Show Notes

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase Recruit of Talionis (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3QbIecd 

Purchase Fugitive of Talionis (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3ZUg4a2 

CJ Milacci’s Website: https://www.sandrarhoads.com 

CJ Milacci’s Instagram: @cjmilacci

She Lives Purposefully episode with Megan: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/she-lives-purposefully/id1535514405?i=1000631852759

October Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/i3clds/october-goodies-giveaway

In today’s solo episode, CJ Milacci discusses her newest book release, Fugitive of Talionis, shares some behind-the-scenes information about the book, and talks about the deeper themes woven within.

What does true courage look like? Are there times in our lives when we need to step forward despite our fears?

We’ll talk about these questions and more in today’s solo episode. 

The Episode Transcript can be found here: https://cjmilacci.com/read-clean-ya-with-cj-podcast/ 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase Mortal Sight (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/48OOPSv 

Purchase Realms of Light (book 2) (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3ZVl0vt 

Sandra Fernandez Rhoads Website: https://www.sandrarhoads.com 

Sandra Fernandez Rhoads Instagram: @sfrhoads.author

October Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/i3clds/october-goodies-giveaway

Purchase Fugitive of Talionis (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3ZUg4a2 

You can watch the video of this episode here: https://youtu.be/JH_saD3zI9I 

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci 

Welcome, my friend. You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories without the objectionable content. I'm your host, award-winning young adult author, CJ Milacci. And in this episode, we are going to dive into an author interview with fellow young adult author, Sandra Fernandez-Rhoads. 

Sandra is the award-winning young adult fantasy author of The Colliding Line series, Mortal Sight and Realms of Light. She was born in Queens, New York to Cuban-Columbian parents, but grew up in Texas with a love for classical art and literature, specifically Renaissance artists and late romantic poets. She attended the University of Texas at Austin and earned a degree in English, and then went on to earn an MA in her 17th century crush, John Milton. Past Experience also includes a background in acting, directing, as well as script writing for the stage and short film. 

Sandra Fernandez Rhodes, welcome to the show!

Sandra Rhoads 

Thank you, CJ, for having me. I'm excited to be here.

CJ Milacci

Yes, I am so excited to have you. Today we are talking about Sandra's Colliding Lines series and I read book one and I'm currently listening to the audiobook for book two and this series is so much fun. It is so good. There's the battle of good and evil and secret messages hidden in things and I am very entranced in the whole world. So Sandra, can you take a moment and tell us a little bit about your series and your stories?

What is the Colliding Line Series About?

Sandra Rhoads

Yes, well, thank you for that. Thank you for those words. The story is about essentially the battle of good and evil. And it really is about a group of artists who have the ability to see this war, this invisible war happening in a second realm. And the artists are able to decode messages that are embedded in classical art and literature that help them get clues to fight the war and fight the enemy. There's a lot more to it, but that's kind of the general overview of the story.

CJ Milacci 

Yes, and I love a good battle of good versus evil kind of a book. I'm all about that. And the fact that you bring in artists as sort of the protagonist, the heroes of this is so fun because I don't think you see that a lot. It's often the sword wielding hero or the gun wield, you know, whatever the genre might be. But this is so unique because we are looking at artists and seeing what they discover in paintings and music and all of that. And I think that is very much a fun twist on the classic good versus evil battle kind of system. So what inspired this? It sounds like from your bio, a lot of this was probably inspired because you love this kind of stuff. 

But what was the sort of catalyst for the story?

Sandra Rhoads

No, that's a great question. I have a passion for artists. I love art. And I believe that art comes in all forms. It's not just dance or music or painting or writing. It can be gardening. And you'll see that in the book. People have different skills and talents. And I believe that we're all given a gift. 

And so for me, the premise of this story really was how you know, how do you discover what your gift is? And then how do you use it in community, for the betterment of community. And so the idea behind it was, if there was this battle between good and evil, if there was this realm that was unseen, who would be on, because it's an everyday, it's urban fantasy, so it takes place in a modern day setting, who would be the individuals of this world that would be open to and able to see those things. 

And for me, it's artists, because artists have the ability to take whatever idea is in their head, and then you wrestle with trying to get it out and communicate it to others. And it's usually you're like, oh, it's not quite what I wanted it to be, but it's just a fraction maybe of just what it is. So for me, I felt like artists would be the ones that would really be able to kind of see, understand and kind of hone that.

And then as I started looking, I started going, oh my gosh, there's these, I got all geeky about it. And I was like, oh, there's these great shifts. I do not have a degree in art history. Let me just say that, okay? I just love art. And I'm like, there's these big shifts in changes in art. And I'm like, what if that was the point where big wars took place, but nobody really knows, but that's really what caused the change in going from the romantics to enlightenment or like, and he's just talking about these, the Renaissance period moving into, I was like, that to me would be cool. It's like you take what you have and what you know, but you add a layer and you go a little deeper and you add a twist to it underneath that people are like, ah, I was like, that's pretty cool. So that's why for me it was artists and I studied Milton.

And one of the things that I loved about, for those that have read or know the poem Paradise Lost, a lot of times in high school, you're required to read a snippet of it. Milton used a lot, he used Paradise Lost particularly, to speak a different message. He was writing about the fall of man, Adam and Eve, but really he would embed little messages in there that kind of spoke to what was happening in England at the time.

And so I was like, let's just take that one step deeper. And let's just say that it's not just what was happening at England at the time, but there's even something more to it. And I just kind of dug into whatever his mythology was. I just went a little deeper with it and added and twisted it a little. 

CJ Milacci

Right, and made it your own. And it's Cera, right, who's the protagonist of the story. And she is also a big fan of Milton, right? Is that partly because that was a bit of you maybe bleeding into the story with her? Or did it just fit? 

Sandra Rhoads 

That is a spoiler for book two, so I cannot... yes, that would be revealed in book two.

CJ Milacci 

Oh. See, I just started book two, so I didn't even know I'm being spoilery in my questions.

Okay, okay. Well, all the more reason for me to postpone working later and just listen to the audiobook. 

In the first book, Mortal Sight, can you kind of give readers a little recap or the pitch for that story so they can hear that book in particular and know whether or not maybe it's a good fit for them?

Sandra Rhoads

Yes, sure. So the recap of the story is there's a protagonist, Cera Marlowe. She's 17 year old. She's kind of a misfit. She suffers from what her mother and her have always believed are panic attacks. And so when these strike, her mom is like, you know what? She comes up with some reason as to why. And they have to uproot and start over. So she's a very transient teen and never really found that community where she belongs.

Hence her love for Milton and classics and reading. But one day she befriends somebody and that individual has an unfortunate accident. I don't know how much I want to spoil, but has an accident. And that kind of sends her on this quest and what she finds and what she discovers is she's not alone. Like she's able to see an unearthly creature. And in that she discovers that, hey, there's a, I'm not crazy, other people see this too. And then that kind of puts her into this new world where she discovers there are people like her. And then she starts to learn who she is in that community and then how she is a part of that community. 

We talked a little bit about themes, but identity and community are the two things and what her gifting is and how she uses that as a part to fight the war.

Where do I belong?

CJ Milacci 

There's definitely strong themes of identity and community, especially for her going from loner to now having people that she can connect with and befriend and support one another. It feels, I think even for her, it's almost this culture shock because it was not something that she was used to in her life at all. But I love how you wove that theme so beautifully into the first book because we really aren't created to function and live our lives completely alone without connecting to anyone else and we need to know there are others who understand.

I also love that it was in the connection with community that she could actually start touching on that other theme you just mentioned of embracing her own gift and her identity in so many ways. Like seeing how her own gifting can benefit others because what we do in our lives always impacts those around us. And it is in community that our gifts and our talents are best expressed and can really be used in the way I think God intended them to be used. You do that really well the way the themes are layered together in that story. And I personally enjoyed watching her discover it, watching her character develop because even though she's this loner you just you really like her like sometimes a loner can be off-putting but she's not you like her you like her spunk you like her willingness to kind of go against the grain a little bit. There's these things about her that you're like cheering her on as she marches through the story and those themes —you want to find out more about them with her because it's just so organic to the story and what you've done with her character. 

So is that something you chose to do? Like because it is so organic, it feels so part of the book. Did you want identity and community and using our gifts, all of that to be the themes in there? Or did you kind of discover them as you discovered Cera's story?

Sandra Rhoads 

A little bit of both. Most of what I write has to do with those two themes, identity and community somehow. And part of it is because I do believe for me that YA, particularly in YA, those characters are trying to figure out who they are and then how they are in the world. And so gifting.

I can't tell you, I remember growing up and thinking, oh, I wanna be like so and so, or why was I have that, or why don't I have this, instead of saying, no, I was uniquely created with what I have for a purpose. And so for her, Cera has to go through this journey of saying, no, this is why I have these gifts. And while I may want that gift, or I may want that gift, we kinda work together as a body to be able to perform what we need to perform and do it the best that we can. And once I think she's able to kind of settle in to, and book two has, book two takes a turn, but once she kind of settles into understanding what her gifting is and how it's being used, she really kind of steps into her own of going, oh, okay, you know what? Now I know I have purpose, I have a plan, I know who I am.

And now it's about how do I take what I know and help those around me? And I think for me, that's a message that I feel like I'm constantly having to tell myself. It doesn't matter. It's like starting from a young age all the way up, I'm still having to go, no, this is what I've been called to do. This is what I do. And you may not know the impact of that immediately, but it does ripple into the lives of others.

Embracing Who You Were Made to Be

CJ Milacci 

I think especially as a young person, it's so easy to get overwhelmed by first the question of what are you going to do with your life? Because everyone seems to think they can ask every 17 year old that question. Even if you just met this person in the grocery store, they think I can ask you what you're going to do with your life. And that so that's overwhelming. 

But then also you see other people who look like they have it together or they are maybe walking in their gifting and they're excited and passionate about it. And so then it feels like, oh, maybe that should be who I am too. And it can be very easy to adopt another person's calling as opposed to actually seeing, oh, what has God made me for? Who am I supposed to be? 

For me in my life, it was something that I had to learn too, that I needed to embrace who I was made to be. And that it's okay if I wasn't called to the same things. It's okay if I did things differently and maybe looked a little weird to some people because that's who God made me to be and I am a little weird. I've embraced that now, it's okay. But I think that that's such a vital thing to learn and discover, especially at a young age. 

So I love that identity is part of it and that idea of embracing who you were made to be, who you were made to be, not just who these other people were supposed to be, but, you know, incorporating that into our own lives and understanding like, oh, this is what I should be doing, how I should be living. And I love seeing it through a story. I just love how stories can highlight these things so well. 

Sandra Rhoads

You totally nailed it. I mean, that is exactly it, is this idea of, because I hear what you say and I'm like, oh my gosh, yes, I was that weird kid, believe it or not. I know you can't tell, but I did have the, back in my day, I had the shocking red hair mohawk and I'm like, I don't fit in here, I don't fit in here, I don't fit in here. 

And so feeling that sense, that resonant of going, where do I belong, where's my community? has always been… it's a search that I continue to go, okay, you know, how could I have gone back and told my young self that you'll find your place being who you are instead of trying to go, okay, now I'm gonna try to be, you know, I'm gonna try the academic route and I'm gonna try to be serious. And I was like, oh, that didn't work for me, you know? And so you just start trying on these different personalities because I too, I'm like you.

I knew people that were like, this is what I'm gonna do, and this is where I'm gonna go, and I'm headed in that direction, and boom, they did it, and I was like, whoa, that just seems awesome, but that wasn't me. And so getting to a point where you could be comfortable with that, and that was one of the things that I was like, you know, I feel, and I see it, and I have kids that are somewhat around that age, and I see that same experience all over again. And so I'm like, I think that it's just something that we all have to walk through. And so for me, that was an important part of Cera's journey.

CJ Milacci

Yes. I love that we can walk through it with a character because it's one thing for a mom to say, be who you're supposed to be and just be you because you're wonderful just as you are. And we're all like, but you're my mother. You have to say that, you know, but then to watch a character do it, it kind of opens it up in a new way because now to watch Cera as a reader, you're like, wait, no, don't push that part of yourself aside. Like, oh no, be who you're supposed to be. Stand up and walk in that. Because we can see as the reader that the best thing for her is to embrace her identity and who she is. 

Then I think that can start to...Truth has a way of infiltrating our lives. I think that's just how God designed us, right? When we hear something or we read something or we see something and we understand that truth is there, I think it has a way of kind of infiltrating our hearts and sowing a seed there that will hopefully then for that reader who feels like, I don't know how to just be who I am, as they read Cera's story to maybe be like, oh, actually, this can be... me too. I can step up and just be me and who God made me to be.

How Your Creativity can be a Gift to Others

Sandra Rhoads

Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And then, with the art for me, one of the things I love is that I've had so many people say, well, I want to pursue dance or I want I used to play this or I used to do that, but I don't do it anymore because they don't see the value in it. And for me, it was going through the story and realizing how those gifts and those talents do have value. And to hear people say I'm drawing again or I'm doing this again because it brings them so much joy and then it becomes a gift for others in the world. So that was another thing that I was like, yes, she needs to embrace that part too.

CJ Milacci

Creativity, I think any form of it, like you said earlier, it comes in so many different forms. So being an artist can look like many different things. It's not just being a painter or a musician or a writer. But I think creativity allows us to do something that other tasks work like tasks or analytical tasks kind of don't because God is a creative God. So when we are creating, it kind of allows us to experience, I think, a part of his character that maybe we don't always get to see. And I know for me, as I've embraced writing and I've written different stories that I've discovered things about myself and things about God that I would never have discovered had I not been creating, had I not been working on that type of stuff. 

I think creativity can open up new avenues in our own hearts and minds in understanding who God is, but also understanding who we are as people and give us a chance to enjoy life in a different way, perhaps.

Sandra Rhoads

Absolutely. Absolutely, yes.

CJ Milacci

You have written these things with identity and all of this in mind. And if there's a reader who feels like they struggle in that area, what would you really hope? In some ways we've said this already, but I kind of just would love to hear your thoughts to that reader in particular who feels like they don't belong anywhere and they don't know how to be themselves. What would you want them to hear from the story and just from you as the author of that story?

You Were Created as You are for a Reason and You’re Not Alone

Sandra Rhoads 

Well, I would say for one thing that you were created that way for a reason. Like there is something in you and there is some, you're not alone. And that's the number one thing for, I think the character herself started off feeling like she was alone until she stepped into this community. And she took risks to step into a community, which is hard. 

But I would say, really to just press into those things that bring you joy, those things that you're like, you know what, this is what I love and don't discount or discredit them because and it's funny as I have said this in a way and Cera's journey is a little similar, but our life to me I always view it like kind of like a dot-to-dot picture so you might start off here and then number two is way over here and you don't understand why you've got these little dots or why you're involved here or why it took this turn this way. But then when you connect all the dots and step back, you're like, look, it was an eagle or something, you know, like you have a really an image that you didn't have before. 

So for those who feel alone and feel like they don't fit in, the one thing that I have to say is that, my gosh, there, I mean, you hear it all the time, there are people that already like other people, but there is nobody like you.

And that is Cera's journey. There is nobody like her in a sense, and without giving away spoilers, but you're an essential part. You have a gift, you have a calling, you have a presence about you that matters, and it changes the world every day that you take a breath, every day that you walk into school or you encounter somebody, you have the opportunity to change the world and change the trajectory of somebody's life. And so I think that if we, the one thing that I would say is just be yourself and don't hide yourself. 

Yes, there's a time like in Cera learns, there's a time to go, okay, you know when to say those things and when to show and when you can trust your, when you can trust people with that true, true part of you. But that's what people love.

People love the authenticity and the realness. And the world can be hard, but staying true and knowing that your identity doesn't come from you, but it's been a gift. And that gift is for you to give to others. And that's the, I think for me, particularly with Cera, that was the main thing. And it's so funny, she was an interesting character. I just wanna talk about her, cause I'm sitting here and go, okay, we talk about classical literature, we talk about art.

But the book itself was a very interesting thing. So for those who don't feel like they fit in, I never felt like I fit in. I love classical literature, but the story I wrote was very action-oriented, doesn't necessarily fit a clean genre. It's kind of its own animal, because you're like, you got classical literature, you got classical art, but you're also like high action, fast paced, urban fantasy, like what are you? 

That's what I heard in my author journey. I don't really know where this fits. I don't, like I can't really see where it fits. But that to me is one of the things that's so unique to who I am is I just took what I love, all of these different aspects of what I love, and I found that they started being knit together into a story that makes it unique. And I think that's what the world wants to see, and that's what the world loves to see.

CJ Milacci

Yes, I love that so much. I can understand why people maybe have a hard time characterizing the books. But at the same time, once you get into the story, it fits, you know, it's it is such a fantastic read, but it does incorporate different elements that maybe you don't normally see together. But I think that's part of what makes it so much fun because there's all these different things that you don't find in other books.

But then there are things that connect to other books as well. Because if you like that, you know, urban fantasy kind of a vibe or high action stories, this book is going to be something you really enjoy. And if you love art and music and that kind of thing as well, and you want to see artists portrayed in a very cool way, then this book is totally for you. It's a great story. 

Since we were talking about Cera a little, can you talk about maybe a character or even a scene? Sometimes I don't like to make it so that you have to pick a favorite character, but something or someone that was really fun for you to write.

Behind the Scenes of the Colliding Line Series

Sandra Rhoads

Oh, I have a favorite character. Everybody knows, everyone knows I have a favorite character. He shows up in book two. So I don't know. He's in book two. And it's Cole. I love I love Cera. Cera made me want to slap her a couple of times. So if you read it, you're like, why are you doing that? Yes, sometimes. But she needed that. She needed to grow. So I actually do love it when people are like, oh, my gosh, I just was so angry with her. And I was like, yes, I was, too. But she needs to grow.

But I, gosh, book two has one of my favorite, favorite scenes. I don't know if you have gotten there. I probably should pick one from book one, but book two has one of my favorite scenes that I had written and it's a scene between her and Cole and their pseudo training, if you will. 

The fun part is it has so many layers. I love to write in the way that you read it once and you're like, oh my gosh, that was so great. But then you go back and you read it again and you're like, oh my gosh, this was there and this was there and this was there. And like I've put all the little Easter eggs, if you will, in a scene that will tie back, either you can go back to the beginning or you can go back to the end. 

But if I have, scene from book one. Gosh, I'm trying to think particularly what my favorite... The whole series started with writing the very, very last scene of the entire duology. 

I wrote the last scene first and I was like, okay, this is how it ends. Now, where does it start? And so if you've read the duology chapter one of book one mirrors in title and whatnot, the last chapter of realms of light, the last book in the duology. I love to tie everything, like everything names have meaning, places have meaning. I just like to layer as much as I can. So it is one of those that people are like, I picked up on that, because there'll be little mentions here and there that I put into the story that people will email me and they'll be or they'll message me and they'll be like was that this and I'm like you're right on it was so that that's always fun.

CJ Milacci

That's so neat. I think those are the things that make a story resonant to a reader, even if they don't pick it up. Because I know for me, when I really loved a book, it's often that one, that type of book, where it's very layered and nuanced. And every time you read it again, you pick up something new. And you're like, oh, this actually is a hint of something else that happens later. And it just feels interconnected and layered and rich. 

Because that's how life so often is. We have different things that happen in life that play out later in a way we didn't expect. And I think when stories kind of can mirror that in some way because of a skillful author doing it very well, which you did, that really resonates in a reader, at least for me. I don't know, other readers, I think, would agree though.

Sandra Rhoads 

Yes, but I do, I love all my characters. And I think just book one, I think one of my favorite scenes writing was the porch scene between her and Jess was one of my favorite, her neighbor friend was one of my favorites, but I love writing action too. So anytime they're running from something is always a lot of fun.

CJ Milacci

Yes. And there's a lot of action in your books. So you had lots of opportunity for that, I guess, to write those fun scenes. 

Let's just take a little pivot here and talk about you a little bit more, if you don't mind. 

What started you on your writing journey?

Sandra Rhoads 

Oh, I've been writing probably like most people. I have been writing for a very, very long time. I'm the four out of five girls. And so I was the weird one. We always talk about like, we were the Spice Girls and there was Sporty Spice and I was Scary Spice, like in the scary way. So I was very much a daydreamer in my head. I was kind of imagining ideas and whatnot and writing them down from a young age. 

I went to school, didn't know what I wanted to do, didn't know what I wanted to be, but majored in English and then just started writing. I wrote poetry, I wrote short stories. I did a lot, I did some directing and I think we talked directing, I wrote for stage and short film. 

And then one day I just was like, you know what? I was like I have this idea for a story. I don't know. I don't know. Let's just see where it goes. And I thought it was going to be a short story and then it just started going and going and going and going and then it turned into a novel and two. So yeah.

CJ Milacci 

Wow. That's so neat. Do you have other books that you think you'll write?

Sandra Rhoads

Yes, yes. Oh, no, no. Yeah. So this series is done. It's just a two book series. But I have just finished a one of the things that I do love is I love the classics. So I use, I will put and weave usually some aspect of it into one of my stories. 

I just finished a draft on an alternative historical young adult fantasy that I don't want to give away too much, but it has to do with, don't get scared, Ovid's Metamorphosis, Shelley's Frankenstein, Jekyll and Hyde. I mean, it sounds like a mess, but the way that it'll come together will be really interesting. So I love world building. I spend a lot of time on world building. And then I have another story that's more post-apocalyptic and I'm about halfway through with that one. 

They just take me a long time just because I really kind of dig deep into building the world, building the powers. I just take a long time to do that. So I wish I could crank them out. Again, it's one of those, I wish I could, but I just know that's just not the way that I'm that I'm wired as an author. I just really want to sit with the story and let it come out as organic as possible, the way that the story really wants to be told.

CJ Milacci

Yes, well, I have no doubt that it will be well worth the wait. And until then, you have two fantastic books available for readers. So we're running out of time. But can you just share where readers can find you and your books and then maybe learn about these other books when they're ready to come out?

Sandra Rhoads

Yes, oh no, great, thank you. Yes, it's available on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, any of the major book retailers. And I'm on Instagram is at sfrhoads.author and then also my website is sandrhoads.com.

CJ Milacci

Perfect, and I'll have links to everything in the show notes as well, so it's a nice, easy jump for listeners. And before we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to say before we go?

Where can you find Sandra Fernandez Rhoads?

Sandra Rhoads

No, I just thank you for having me on the show. This it was a joy and I love talking stories. I love just encouraging others to pursue your gifts, pursue your passion and don't give up. Just keep going. Keep going because you don't know at the end, you don't know what it's supposed to be and for how. But you just you just got to keep pursuing that. So but thank you for having I hope that the readers, you know, enjoy the story and find just some inspiration and some encouragement between the pages.

CJ Milacci

I am sure they will. Sandra Fernandez-Rhoads, thank you so much for being on Read Clean YA with CJ. I had a wonderful time chatting with you today.

Wrapping things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Sandra Fernandez Rhoads. This was my first time getting to talk with Sandra, and it was a delight to get to know her and hear her heart behind her stories. If you love urban fantasy, high action-adventure stories, and intriguing plots, then the Colliding Line Series is for you.

Since recording this episode, I finished book two in this series, Realms of Light, and it was a great read! There were moments where my jaw dropped and I couldn’t stop turning the pages…or in this particular case, listening to the audiobook. It was an adventure until the very end and I look forward to revisiting the stories to find some of the Easter Eggs Sandra hid within the pages.

Note for Sensitive Readers

I do want to give a quick content warning for sensitive readers. The Realms of Light duology has some intense moments and scenes that could be scary for some readers. There are battles of good verses evil, and the evil is very, well, evil. Sandra does not give graphic or gory depictions, but it is worth noting that some of the moments are pretty scary . There is a romance throughout the duology as well, with a couple kisses. It’s sweet and not overdone, but still there, so if you or a young reader in your life isn’t quite ready for that you may want to have a trusted family member read it first.

Don’t Forget The October Goodies Giveaway!

Sandra has also graciously agreed to include a paperback copy of Mortal Sight, book one in the duology, along with a bookmark, quote card, sticker and a map of the estate for book two in this month’s giveaway, so don’t forget to check out the October Giveaway for Read Clean YA with CJ and find her book along with some other great Young Adult books. 

You can find the episode show notes at readcleanya.com.

A Quick Personal Note

On a personal note, tomorrow the second book in my Talionis Series, Fugitive of Talionis, will launch into the world. If you love dystopian stories with that are a “page-turner” with relatable characters and with hope woven throughout, then you’ll enjoy the Talionis series. You can find book one, Recruit of Talionis, wherever books are sold, and starting tomorrow, Thursday October 19th, you will be able to find book two, Fugitive of Talionis as well.  

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend so they can discover exciting, clean young adult books too.  

The Episode Transcript can be found here: https://cjmilacci.com/read-clean-ya-with-cj-podcast/ 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase Emberhawk (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3PMGLZG 

Purchase BOOK TWO (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3F9mcSj 

Jamie Foley’s Website: https://jamiefoley.com

Jamie Foley’s Instagram: @jamiesfoley

Purchase Signed Copies of Emberhawk: https://www.fayettepress.com/product/emberhawk-by-jamie-foley/46?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=14

Purchase Signed Copies of Silverblood: https://www.fayettepress.com/product/silverblood-the-katrosi-revolution-book-2-by-jamie-foley/52?cs=true&cst=custom

October Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/i3clds/october-goodies-giveaway

You can watch the video of this episode here: https://youtu.be/C84DlzKlYaY 

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci

Welcome my friend, you are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories without the objectionable content.

I'm your host, award-winning young adult author CJ Milacci, and in this episode we are going to dive into an author interview with my good friend and fellow young adult author, Jamie Foley. 

Award-winning sci-fi fantasy author Jamie Foley loves strategy games, gardening, and making lembas bread. She's terrified of red wasps and uses them for lightsaber training.

When not working as the Creative Director at Enclave Publishing, the typesetter for the Christian Writers Institute or a suspicious monarch at Fayette Press, she's probably drawing maps to Carparelle. Her husband is her manly astronaut preacher muse. They live between the Texas hill country and the family cattle ranch, where their hyperactive Spawnling and Wolfpack roam. Jamie, welcome to the show!

Jamie Foley

Thank you so much. Oh my goodness, that author bio is just ridiculous. I was trying to like, okay, we have Lord of the Rings references and Star Wars and all the nerd stuff, everything I grew up on, you know.

CJ Milacci 

Yes, I love it. I don't think it's bad. I think it's fantastic. I love all of the different things that you wove in there. It's so much fun. And also all of the hats you wear, which it's just crazy that you do all of that. And you have these fantastic stories, which I am so excited to talk about today.

Jamie Foley

It is crazy, I don't get much sleep, but thank you so much for having me on the show.

CJ Milacci

Yes, I'm excited. So today we're going to talk about your Katrosi Revolution series and EmberHawk is the first book in this series. It has adventure, romance, magic, all of these incredible things in a world that is rich and nuanced and you just feel like you've entered into it. It's such a great story. So I am excited to dive in and I would love if you could just tell us a little bit about this series without giving away too many spoilers.

Diving into the Katrosi Revolution Series

Jamie Foley

Okay, I'll try not to give away spoilers, but Emberhawk is the first book. It's gonna be one of four. I did Win an award for the second book in the series, which is very strange to me I always hate having like the slump book be the number two book And so I worked really hard on book as hard as on book two as I did on book one.

The series is very unique. It's kind of like a clean version of Game of Thrones in that there's a lot of politics going on, but there's also romance and not everybody has to die. But it was inspired by me growing up with some Cherokee heritage and I was just fascinated by learning about the native tribes. 

 So in the book, there's a tribal alliance, which some of the tribes belong to and some do not. One of the characters is trying to figure out how to get all these people to join together to fight against a common enemy, despite many differences in culture. And some are peaceful, some are not. Some are neutral, depending on the day. So the idea is what would have happened in the American Revolution if some of the native tribes would have allied with the American settlers to fight off the British, except the Queen of England is a water elemental who thinks she's a goddess. So it's very wild, it's out there y'all, but apparently people like it, I don't know.

CJ Milacci

It is so much fun and Jamie just is really good at downplaying her very cool story. It is such a fun world. It really is and you just named all these really cool elements and I love the different tribes and the different like groups that you've created and given nods to and it's so fun to see it all woven together. I had no idea it had that American Revolution kind of backstory in the planning out of the series. That's so wild.

Jamie Foley

Well, I still have a lot more to write. I'm working on book three right now. And so the revolution part hasn't really super happened until book four. Book one kind of focuses on who would be considered American settler. Her ancestors were from the island that is across the sea, the Sea of Bones. So she is kind of like a part of a cattle rancher family. And they're on the border with one of the tribes.

And so the question is, are these settlers, how are they going to interact with the tribes? Are they going to ally with their ancestors from across the island? Or do we maybe not like the people from the island because they tax us and they draft our sons and don't really help us that much. So when she accidentally shoots one of the tribesmen who's a scout in the first chapter, that's when everything kind of blows up.

CJ Milacci

And it is so fun to see it all blow up because the world is cool from the very beginning, but then the things that she gets to explore and see and kind of crossing this line that she's not supposed to cross into this other land. And all the things that she experiences there and this guy that she really wants to hate but can't keep hating. It's so much fun.

And as you're describing it and I'm thinking of the American Revolution, I'm like, oh, I can see how that can definitely be a part of this.

Jamie Foley

Right? Well, it's not that heavy. It's very unique. That was just like the inspiration for the story. But I've heard people say in the reviews that it is very political, but that it doesn't draw from any modern political issues. So it wouldn't be like, you wouldn't be able to draw any modern things about modern politics, because I don't want that in my book. Like we've got enough stress from modern politics in everyday life. I'd like to escape to another world, please.

CJ Milacci 

Yes. Yes, exactly. And this does that so well. And I think the political side of it adds that tension to the story because you kind of don't know what's going to happen next, who's going to do what, is there going to be peace, is there going to be war? And it's just this tumultuous undercurrent through the story and it adds that layer that keeps you turning the page to find out what happens next, which I love. I love a good page turner, so you've definitely accomplished that in the story.

Jamie Foley 

Yay, I'm glad you think so. Since it's my own work, it's hard to, I'm very self-deprecating, you know, because I always wanna be doing it better and learning more and doing better and better with the next book. And right now I'm so focused on book three, I'm just like, okay, don't say any spoilers.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, oh, I bet. 

You have some really cool characters in this story, in this world. Is there one in particular that you really love that you'd say is your favorite? I know we're not supposed to pick favorites, but still kind of feels like fun to do once in a while.

Let’s talk characters. Do you have a favorite?

Jamie Foley 

Right! So the characters all live in my heart, so maybe it would be a betrayal for me to say that, but I can because I have one character who is the main character of book two, she's this chieftess lady, and originally when I concepted this story in high school, I'm way past high school, you guys, but this character, the chieftess, was a secondary character, and they say you're never supposed to put yourself into a character. Although you can of course use your own traits and experiences, but like you're never supposed to like become a character. 

But it was a secondary or tertiary character in the original, which was just a very small book. And so I totally did that. And then when I started writing it as a professional writer, I was like, this can't be me. I have to remove as much as I can from her, but I still feel like a lot like her 

So she's very easy for me to write and she struggles with a lot of things and lessons that I have learned personally in my life. So I love her. 

Her name is Brooke and she has had a lot of bad luck so she is cursed but not really. And they call her the Jade Witch because they're like oh she has this magic that we don't understand and so we don't like her. And so she has to learn to kind of live while being a leader but also loving her people even as they reject her a little bit. 

So that's a lot of fun. 

But I also can't not mention the other main character in book two, who is Lysander. So he's not really an elf, but he does have his ears cut that way because he has lost his hearing in a tragic situation that you'll learn about if you read the book. But he learns that Brooke's magic is to be able to hear people's thoughts and to speak into their minds, which is why she's called a witch and she's scary because she can read your thoughts. 

And Lysander realizes through a situation that I won't reveal that he could learn from her and learn to hear again people's thoughts because he has lost his actual physical hearing. So there's a romance between the two of them, but it kind of is, it kind of isn’t.

That's book two, and I love both of them because Lysander is, he's close to me because I had a, there was a student that I grew up with who was hard of hearing, and I saw him, the emotional toll that it took on him, not being able to clearly and quickly communicate with others around him.

And so I kind of based Lysander off of him. And so, and I have, thankfully, one of our mutual friends is an ASL interpreter, so she helped me a lot in keeping it realistic for this book.

CJ Milacci

I haven't read book two yet. This is on my very high, on my next to read list because I loved book one, EmberHawk. So I'm excited because these characters get introduced in book one, but there's so much more to discover about them and so much is hinted at. And I'm excited to dive into their story, which is an award-winning book. And that is so exciting as well.  

Jamie Foley

I don't know how that happened.

CJ Milacci

Hey, you know, it's because promotion comes the Lord and so we just trust that you did the faithful thing and you wrote a great story and now many people have enjoyed it so it's so good. 

Jamie Foley

Well, thank you. I can't question the Lord, so maybe I'll just stop arguing on that point.

CJ Milacci

Yes, yes there you go exactly there we go!

Are there any tropes or things that you think people would love if they love this kind of story they would your series specifically, or this trope is kind of something in the book or something like that?

Who will love the Katrosi Revolution Series?

Jamie Foley

Well, oh my goodness, it's difficult because the first book very much feels like a YA, right? And it all, and it's YA in book two as well, but it kind of gets more mature as the characters get more mature and go through more difficult things. So it's not that it's adult in the end, but it's almost like a Harry Potter in that transition, you know, where you start with the characters being younger and it gets darker thereon.

But not in like, there's no wizarding school or anything like that. It would just mean like in the transition of the story. Like I mentioned before, it could feel similar to Game of Thrones just because it's very political, but there's a strong romantic thread and I'm not killing people willy-nilly. 

There's a Lord of the Rings element to it too. It's like we have to save the world, and there's an adventure with multiple characters. 

So if you put like a YA romance inside of a Lord of the Rings, that's probably what you get.

CJ Milacci

Yes, and I'm sure there are so many people like, yes, that is the book I've been waiting for. So thank you for that little description, that's perfect. 

One of the things I love to do with author guests is talk about the deeper theme in the story. So I would love for you to share what's like a theme in your book, maybe that is really close to your heart or something that you're passionate about that got woven into the story accidentally or on purpose.

What can a story teach us about biblical gender roles?

Jamie Foley 

Well, it might be a little controversial because I am a religious person, I'm a Christian and I love the Lord. And so I'm writing this series and all of my books really for teenage girls or for people who are hurting, who are feeling like they might be alone or like especially during COVID. Like I wrote Silver Blood during COVID. And so everyone felt alone, you know, even trapped in our own little homes.

So what I wanted to do was connect to the heart of these readers and give them hope and make them feel like they're not alone because the characters can be experiencing something similar to what they're going through. So when I was a kid, there was no Christian sci-fi or fantasy. It was like Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Frank Peretti and Ted Decker and like maybe Kathy Tyers. And that was like it. It was just not a thing.

And so I was not allowed to read anything except those that I had previously mentioned. And so I felt like there was nobody out there like me. There was nobody who loved Jesus and also dragons and lightsabers. I could read some Star Wars stuff too, but you know. 

So some of the themes that I am trying to also weave into my books is biblical truth. So because I feel like that is where hope and light abides. And something that has really been under attack in our culture is gender roles and like what is a man? What is a woman? What are we supposed to do? And are there things that can make us happy? Like if we follow certain guidelines, but also someone very strange like me, I'm not your average girl over here. Do I belong?

Because when I was growing up, I was a serious tomboy. Like, serious, serious tomboy. And so I was struggling with my own identity even before it was a big cultural issue. And so what I'm trying to do with this series is that my main character, Kira, who's the rancher girl, she is like a tinkerer, you know? And she hasn't gotten married yet because she's got an attitude and boys aren't good enough for her because she's so smart, you know? And she doesn't wanna like be stuck in the kitchen cooking all day. And so I'm like, is there a place for her in the biblical view of womanhood? 

And like my dude Ryan, he's also the main character in book one and he is, he's definitely manly, okay, but like he's got a lot of feelings and he really cares for children specifically. And so , is it okay for him to have feelings and still be in the biblical view of manhood. With my chieftess character, she's a leader. Is she allowed to be a leader? Is that okay? 

But that takes a toll on her and all the stresses that she's going through as a woman at the same time. And then Lysander is an alchemist, so he likes to grow plants and you know, which is not, there's nothing like too feminine about that okay, but most of the times I think we associate an herbalist with a grandma or something, which is like my personal goal.

So anyway, I'm trying to show that we don't have to be set in a cookie cutter mold and that the gender roles can be healthy for us without stuffing a square peg into a round hole. Does that make any sense?

CJ Milacci 

Wow, definitely. Yes, and I love what you're doing there because it is so confusing in our culture. And I'm sure for many listeners and readers, this is an issue that they're trying to sort through themselves.

One of the things I love about stories is that it can take an issue and can teach us something subtly and almost just carefully as we dig into it we start to grow with the character and learn with the character and experience that transformation that they have through the story of discovering something about themselves that was always true, but maybe they didn't understand or didn't know like their like biblical roles of men and women and how God made us unique and on purpose for a purpose, and that it doesn't look the same for everybody but that doesn't mean we don't fit within God's plan and even though maybe that's not all exactly stated we can walk with these characters and watch them come into who they were meant to be and start to understand that truth in a deeper way which I think is a really powerful truth that in this there is a purpose for men, there is a purpose for women, there's a biblical mandate for that, but also within that we don't have to have that, like you said, cookie cutter mold, because I think it's so easy to assume, well, if there's a purpose, then that means it has to be a certain way and it has to fit this mold. And that's not true.

It's really not like we're all unique. We're all individuals. God made us individually for a purpose to reflect a part of His character that no one else can reflect. And if you weren't the tomboy who loved all of these different things, you wouldn't be who you are today, writing stories, and doing all of the incredible things you do. And that would mean the world is missing out on Jamie. For each and every individual. Like if we're not walking in who God's made us to be, then the world misses out on all the gifts God would have us use in that specific, weird, quirky, funny, silly, whatever calling we might feel it is.

Jamie Foley

Yeah, and I really feel like I don't have to preach to say that, I'll leave that to my husband, he's a preacher. But I don't, like I never want it to appear overt or like I'm teaching a lesson. Write a good story and it'll tell the lesson itself, like that without, subliminally, without you even realizing it. So I'm never pushing my beliefs in people's faces because that's the beauty of story, that's the power we have as storytellers.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, which I love and I love that Jesus was so into parables that he did that so often and people didn't understand all the time what he meant and he had to explain it to his own closest followers but yet I feel like I'm sure several years later some of those truths in those stories that people didn't get in that moment came home to roost in their minds later and they were like, oh that's what that meant and that was the bigger point of he wasn't just talking about sowing seed, you know, there was a bigger picture here.

And I think that's one of the coolest things about stories is we don't even realize sometimes what they're teaching us. Which is why it's so important to be putting in stories that come from that a good worldview a biblical worldview even if it's not an overtly Christian story still knowing that the truths within it are Pointing us in the right direction

Jamie Foley 

Absolutely, and as someone with a rambunctious daughter, I have learned that just having the guidelines of truth around her and on our lives, our boundaries, makes her feel secure. So like in the world that doesn't even believe in truth, for the most part, even just going into a world in a book where there is truth and there is that definition can speak directly to someone's heart and give them comfort and maybe give them an escape from a bad situation that they're going through.

CJ Milacci 

Yes.

Yeah, and I think we need that escape sometimes in our difficult seasons of life, to be able to jump into the pages of a story and get lost there. Like you said, it's not the politics of today that you deal with in your story, because you don't want to be in a story dealing with the politics of today. That's no fun. But it is just a fun, exciting world to enter. And the bonus is, as we read stories that are from that strong perspective, that foundation we have with a biblical worldview, they can teach us still which is so cool.

Jamie Foley

Agreed.

CJ Milacci

We'll shift on to a little bit about you, a peek behind the curtain of the author behind these awesome stories, Jamie. So I know this is fun. This is so that readers can hear not just about your story, which is fantastic and you should go read, but I think sometimes knowing the author gets me more excited to read the story as well. So we're gonna dive into you a little bit. 

What started you on your writing journey?

Jamie Foley 

Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, it's an embarrassing story. So I have had story within me from the very beginning of my life. In preschool, I won Miss Pretty's Pre-K Storyteller Award. I have no idea if that was for me telling stories in pre-k or me lying artfully. I don't know. But that was my first writing award.

I know, so like I've always had stories in me, but I never had any confidence that I could write them. So, because like I didn't do very super good in English in school. I mean, I did, but like I didn't super enjoy that, you know? And only much later did I realize that being a writer and being a creative is about your creativity and your spark and telling the story. And that's why we hire editors to help us with the English thing.

But I never pursued it for that reason, but I loved it so much that I was blessed enough to have an opportunity to work for Thomas Nelson out of college. And so I was working for a Christian publisher, helping to publish and market Christian stories. But they weren't sci-fi. They weren't fantasy. They weren't YA. You know, they were, you know, the more the mainstream Christian stuff.

And I this is so strange. Okay, I don't this has only happened to me once in my life But I felt strongly that God was telling me after three years there Then I needed to quit and to start writing my own stuff and I was like, you know what God? I don't know if you know this but I work for a Christian publisher and books don't make as much money as they used to because people are now watching Netflix and playing video games more than they did in the 90s. 

And also God, I'm not knowing if you know this but I happen to know that there's no like publisher publishing Christian sci-fi and fantasy at that time. And so I was just like, what was I gonna do? And I was the breadwinner in our family at the time. 

So it's like, what am I gonna do? Quit my job to start doing something I've never done before that I have no experience or confidence in to make no money and I guess self publish. And he kind of, God kind of like tortured me and beat me over the head with a two by four for six months until I actually obeyed.

I know, and then I wrote my first series, the Sentinel Trilogy, and I kind of didn't do a very good job because I didn't know what I was doing. And so I wasn't like investing in it as a career. I wasn't paying for professional editing. I just kind of like doot, doot, doot. And just did it. And then it came out there, and then people actually liked it, and people were actually giving me good reviews on it. And I was like, oh no, I actually do have...maybe talent that God has given me, and maybe I should have done it the right way and actually trained it. 

So I took the whole series down, got professional editing, started going to conferences, and rewrote the entire trilogy. Yeah, I got new covers and everything and started actually listening. So I'm a very disobedient child. And that's how my writing journey got started. 

CJ Milacci 

Wow, that's fascinating. Jamie and I have been friends for about a year now and I did not know this story, so this is fun getting a little peek behind the curtain here.

Jamie Foley

It's a little embarrassing.

CJ Milacci 

I feel like some of the biggest decisions in our life often come with a bit of embarrassing stories, at least my biggest decisions. You know, me assuming that, of course, I know better than what God is telling me to do in this moment, and I should not be doing that, you know. And then he has to show me how wrong I am. So I try to get better at that as I get older. And my recommendation is always to follow God's leading, as he calls you.

Jamie Foley 

Yes, I should have done that. Also, if y'all have seen the new movie Sound of Freedom that came out, there's a line in that movie that says, "'When God tells you what to do, you cannot hesitate.'" And I would highly recommend following that advice.

CJ Milacci

Yes, that is powerful and that will definitely bring you to some crazy places in life, but with the Lord, the craziest places are the safest places to be. 

Now that you have been writing for several years, have you ever been in a really random place and gotten a story idea or just kind of have any of your stories been birthed in just unique environments or settings?

Where are you most inspired to write?

Jamie Foley

That happens all the time. And yeah, I was like, this probably, you probably know the answer to this as a writer yourself. But yeah, I get crazy random ideas that pop into my head all the time. And most of them are not worthy of writing, but I could acknowledge that when I see it, something inspiration in nature or in a different book or a different TV show or video game or whatever it is, if I see something that is exciting to me that I really like, I can at least latch onto that idea and write it down later, and then have a list of elements that are exciting to me, because as writers, we have to be passionate about our own work. I can't just crank stuff out just because… it's not like that to me. I have to be passionate about it. And so I have cannibalized a lot of old story ideas and put them together with other new ideas, and that's kind of what I'm working on with my upcoming series right now.

CJ Milacci

Wow, so exciting. Well, once that series is ready to be talked about, we'll have to have you back on so we can chat about that series too.

Jamie Foley

I would love to, I would love to, but yeah, my favorite place to write is like a balcony somewhere with a great view. And it doesn't matter what the view is, but one of my favorite places, okay, this is, I'm gonna take the conversation in a little bit of a strange way, okay? Everything's okay, but my town is currently on fire. Because I know, I know, okay. So I live in Bastrop County in Texas, and it was known for the worst wildfire in Texas history.

And fires just happen here all the time. So if you go to Bastrop State Park in Texas, you will see tons of trees like jagged burned trees, fallen over trees, all kinds of problems that have scarred the landscape, but you also see new growth. And so to me, that's very attractive as a writer because there is a story within the landscape itself of disaster and recovery. 

So any place that I can go that will adventure, you know, and tell, what is the story of that landscape? If I can get a balcony, I will absolutely sit there and write probably at like 2 a.m. because that's when everybody else is asleep.

CJ Milacci

 I can't write at 2 a.m. I am definitely an early to bed kind of girl, but I love that is an inspiring time for you. 

Jamie Foley

It's the only time when it's quiet, you know, around here.

CJ Milacci

Yes, oh, yes, well, it looks like we're running to the end of our time here. I would love for you to tell readers where they can find you and your book and all the things about you.

Where Can Readers Find Jamie Foley?

Jamie Foley 

Oh, okay. Well, my website is jamiefoley.com because I do so many different things. You're gonna have to click on my writing or my books tab to actually see my books because I also work for Enclave Publishing and do a bunch of other stuff for like Fayette Press and typesetting and I draw maps and all kinds of ridiculous digital art things. But I'm on Amazon under Jamie Foley and I think my books are generally available wherever books are sold.

CJ Milacci

Wonderful, and I'll have links to everything in the show notes as well, so it's easy for you to grab them if this sounds like a great series for you, and I can guarantee you will love the story building and the world building and the story and all of the fun elements within it. So, Jamie, thank you for being on Read Clean YA with CJ. It was so fun having you.

Jamie Foley

Thank you so much CJ, it was great.

Wrapping things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Jamie Foley. As she said herself, Jamie can be self-deprecating since she’s always looking to grow and improve, but the Bible says to let another’s lips praise you, so I’m here to tell you that Jamie is an incredible story-teller. If you’re looking for an engaging world, fascinating fantasy elements, and relatable characters, then this series is for you.

Don’t Forget The October Goodies Giveaway!

Jamie Foley has also graciously agreed to include a copy of Emberhawk, book one in her series, along with some very fun swag, in this month’s giveaway, so don’t forget to check out the October Giveaway for Read Clean YA with CJ and find her book along with some other great Young Adult books. 

You can find the episode show notes at readcleanya.com.

Coming Next Week

Next week I’ll be talking with YA author Sandra Fernandez Rhoads, author of The Colliding Line Series. When worlds Collide, shadows wrestle light. This contemporary fantasy duology is fantastic, and I so enjoyed my conversation with Sandra and can’t wait to share it with you. These books are great fall reads, so I hope you tune in to hear about the stories and discover a new adventure this fall. 

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend so they can discover exciting, clean young adult books too.  

The Episode Transcript can be found here: https://cjmilacci.com/read-clean-ya-with-cj-podcast/ 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase Enhanced (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3ZLQKTF

Pre-Order Hybrid (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/48EBuMk 

Candace Kade’s Website: https://candacekade.com

Candace Kade’s Instagram: @ candace_kade_author

October Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/i3clds/october-goodies-giveaway

You can watch the video of this episode here: https://youtu.be/dyx6wSLamTE

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci:

What would it be like to grow up in a world where everyone has incredible genetic enhancements…except for you? And what can a story about this teach us about loneliness and finding our identity? Find out in today’s episode!

Welcome, my friend. You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories without the objectionable content. I'm your host, award-winning young adult author CJ Milacci. And in this episode, we are going to dive into an author interview with my good friend and fellow young adult author, Candace Kade. 

Author of the incredible young adult sci-fi novel Enhanced, Candace Kade is also a recovering overachiever who spends her time dreaming up stories typically involving tech, psychology, culture, and sometimes swords. She's a certified Krav Maga assistant instructor and loves writing action-packed martial arts scenes. 

A third culture kid, she considers Chengdu and Austin to be her homes. When she's not exploring new countries, she enjoys hiking in national parks, moving, again, teaching her husband Mandarin, and keeping a baby human alive. She can be bribed with boba tea, fluffy puppies, and breakfast tacos. Candace, welcome to the show.

Candace Kade

Thanks for having me, I'm so excited to be here.

CJ Milacci

I am so excited to have you today for two reasons. One, I love Enhanced. It is such a great story. And two, I just love that I get to talk with you since we are friends. So it's just an extra bonus benefit that it's getting to interview one of my own friends for this show. So I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Before we dive into it, though, could you just do a little definition of what it means to be a third culture kid for anyone who doesn't know?

What is a Third Culture Kid?

Candace Kade

Sure, so a third culture kid is someone who has grown up in a culture other than their passport culture. So for example for me, I was born in the US, so I'm technically an American citizen, but at the age of four my family moved to China and that's where I pretty much grew up until 18. So...Growing up in a culture that is not your passport country for the majority of your developmental years makes you a third culture kid. And it can take on a variety of different forms and factors, but for me, that's what my experience was as a third culture kid.

CJ Milacci 

Thank you so much for explaining and for sharing that. I'm excited to talk about your story Could you just give us a little synopsis of what it's about without any spoilers because people need to just experience the twists and turns of your book without any spoilers.

Let’s talk about Enhanced

Candace Kade

Absolutely, no spoilers. I love surprising people along the way, so I won't do that. So it's a young adult sci-fi novel, first in the hybrid series, and it's set in the Asian Federation in the year 2123, where everyone has genetic enhancements, at least everyone who can afford them. And so in this world, society is really split sharply between those who have these incredible enhancements, which are sort of like superpowers. Some people can breathe underwater.

Some people have enhanced intelligence or they're super-sized and have this amazing strength. And then you have those who are born naturally and they live in the outskirts where there's pollution. The only jobs left are really AI training jobs. There's a lot of violence and crime and they're really at a disadvantage at life. And our story follows Lee Urban, who was born naturally but then is adopted into the high society of the enhanced and has to hide her lack of enhancements, which of course gets harder as she enrolls in Pecking University, which is the most prestigious school for the enhanced elite. So there's a lot of fun hiding and figuring out who she can trust. 

There's mysterious hackers, there's futuristic motorcycle races, AI games, but ultimately it's a story about a girl finding herself in a society where really your DNA determines everything.

CJ Milacci

That was such a great description. And everything you were describing just was bringing me back into the story. It's such an immersive world. You did a great job just bringing me as the reader into this place where people have enhancements and you just start assuming everyone does. It was hard to put the book down and go back to a life with unenhanced people because it was such an absorbing world. 

What are the deeper themes in Enhanced?

You already kind of touched on this a little bit, but What is like a deeper theme in this story that you think that got woven in, whether you did it intentionally or you found it later as you were looking back on the book and doing edits and everything?

Candace Kade

Yeah, I would say the deeper themes are really more about home culture and identity. And I think those are really important themes for me personally, having grown up in China. I struggled a lot with that of, you know, I went to a local Chinese school part-time and then I was homeschooled part-time. And so for most of my life growing up in China, I felt like I should belong there. But obviously I didn't because I don't look Chinese and people always knew like, oh, she's a foreigner.

Even though I spoke the local language, you know, I did everything that the locals did But I never quite fit in because I looked different and that was always very challenging And then when I came back to the US for college at 18 It was also very challenging for me because I hadn't grown up in the US. And so even though I spoke English and my parents did a good job of educating us like, here's the Pledge of Allegiance — I remember memorizing that in third grade like I'm about to go to public school What's how do I say the pledge of Allegiance? you know just basic things that like most people take for granted, you know, I had to sit down and learn. And there were just a lot of things that still fell through the gaps. And I just didn't know. And I felt like I didn't fit in, in the U S even though this is my passport country, this is technically where I was from, but I hadn't lived here. 

And so I think I wrestled a lot with themes of culture and which culture do I belong to and who am I? Am I Chinese? Am I American? Am I neither? Where do I belong? And so I think this theme of belonging in culture and home are very important themes to me personally. And so they're themes that you see throughout the Hybrid trilogy, but in Enhanced as well.

CJ Milacci

 I was born and raised in America, in the same part of America. So it's harder to envision. But then I think one of the neat things about story is that now I can enter into Urban's life and see the world through her eyes and imagine just even for a moment, catch a glimpse of what that must have been like for you living that way, like feeling, wait, do I fit here? How do I fit here? I should fit here, but I don't feel like I do. 

And I think even if you're not a third culture kid. I'm sure so many can resonate with that theme because we all in our hearts wanna belong somewhere and it's hard to fit in certain places. And I think we've all probably experienced that moment where you walk into the room and you feel like, this is not where I should be right now and I want to fall through the cracks and what do I do with that feeling? So I love that you tackled that because I don't know that we see it handled all the time in young adult fiction. So I just love how head on you hit that issue, and especially for other third culture kids, I'm sure this is like really resonant for them.

Candace Kade

Yeah, it was such a fun issue to tackle. And I totally agree. Like third culture kids have reached out and said, hey, I really resonate with this. But so have other people. We’ve all been in a place where we're the new person at a party or the new person on the block and we feel lonely and we feel like, ah, everyone's in this clique and they all know each other except me. And I'm just here awkwardly eating my nachos. We’ve all been in situations like that. 

And so I think we can all to a degree resonate with just this feeling of being an outsider and wanting to belong, but just not getting that acceptance or, or maybe getting that acceptance, but still putting it on ourselves and feeling like, Oh, they're just faking it or I don't actually belong. And I just think that feeling of belonging is so important to all of us. And all of us at some time have struggled with that.

CJ Milacci

Yeah, for sure. I can think of multiple times in my own life where I've, that's been me. I've been that person with the nachos in the corner feeling like I should not be even in this corner. What am I doing here right now? So it is, and I think it's because we were created to belong, to fit somewhere. And so it's in every human being, like that longing for something where I know I have a purpose. I know I fit, I know I belong. 

And when we feel like that's not true, there's something I think deep within us, in the fabric of our being that feels like it's something's off, you know, until we figure out what that actually means and what that actually looks like for us. So it's a it's an important theme. I love how you're tackling it. 

Have you found in the writing of the story and the series in general, have you found it to be therapeutic for you at all as you've dealt with this scene that's been such a personal one for you?

Candace Kade

That's such a funny question that you asked that because I think writing it, I was thinking, Oh, these are like things I struggled with in high school, in college, even a little bit as a young adult. And here's my lessons learned. Like I want to pass it on to people, you know, not in a preachy way, but here's some of the things that have helped me. 

But it's funny because, when I had finished the book, I don't remember what it was that was happening in my life, but I remember as I was editing like getting to a point in the book where, and I don't wanna spoil things, but some of the things Urban was wrestling with and learning, I was like, this is me again, I'm back here. And so I think that's the thing too, is like our lives go in different phases and in different stages in our lives. Sometimes we wrestle with different themes. 

And so for me, I think I've wrestled with a lot of this theme of belonging at an earlier age, but there's still elements of it that come up. And so, yeah, I think it has been therapeutic. Cause I remember one day thinking, Oh my gosh, these words I wrote a year ago were actually very helpful to me right now. I need to, I need to read these and apply these to my life again.

CJ Milacci 

I feel like God can use stories in a therapeutic way as we craft them and as we read them. And I because like I said earlier, I can read, Enhance and experience maybe just a tad bit of what you went through, because it's a story that I can immerse myself in. So I learned something in a way that maybe us just having a conversation, I couldn't fully understand all that you experienced, but I can feel Urban's emotions pulsing through the story, which allows me to experience it deeper. 

And then when we write the stories too, I think sometimes we can, I don't know, sometimes for me I write something down that I didn't even realize I was thinking or I didn't, you know, and like you said, later a year later, you're like, oh, that fits still. I needed to read that. So it's just crazy how our, how stories can be such an impactful part of our lives on both sides of the page.

Candace Kade

Yeah, absolutely. And stories are different than most forms of media in that, you know, unlike TikTok or Instagram, you're reading this book, you're with the main character for many hours. And so you have that chance to go deeper. That's so much different than most platforms, you really get to dive into those emotions and those themes and wrestle with them in a way that I think most other forms of, I guess, storytelling, you don't have the opportunity. But in telling and writing books, you really get to go deeper and address those themes. And I love that.

CJ Milacci

Yes, I agree completely. 

 We've talked about this theme of belonging and how you wove that into your story. But when a reader closes the book, because we almost have talked more about how this is a longing in us and we want to belong and that's an important theme. But when the reader closes the book, is there something about that theme that you want them to take away from the story in a deeper way? Not just, oh, I want to belong to you, but does that come to a conclusion or is there something, whether it's in this story or in this series, that you're hoping to convey to the reader?

What determines my worth, where I belong, and my acceptance?

Candace Kade

I would say the first thing is I just want people to feel seen and heard. I think the thing about loneliness or feeling like an outsider is you feel like you're the only one and you feel like you're just isolated and alone and so I don't want people to feel that way. I want people to recognize that there are other people like them and they're not alone in this journey. So I would say that's the first thing. 

 And then the second thing is I think it's so tempting to equate belonging with what people say about us, so we try so hard, and I've struggled with this for much of my life of, you know, trying to gain people's acceptance by looking like the culture around me. When you jump between cultures a lot, that's been very much a part of my life is figuring out, okay, how do I look American now? Okay, now how do I look Chinese? How do I look like the people around me? How do I get their acceptance? And that's hard. But realizing, you know, I don't need the people around me to have, you know, to accept me for me to accept myself.

I think that's a hard lesson is sometimes we just feel like, oh, it's the people around us that determine our worth, that determine whether we belong, that determine our acceptance. And it's really not, you know, God created everyone in the world and we all have worth and value and purpose because we reflect his image. And so we don't have to look to other people to find that acceptance. 

We already have it. 

And so sometimes I think the hardest thing is just accepting ourselves because we already have been accepted. And so I would say that's the second piece is just, you know, not looking to other people necessarily for that acceptance, but realizing we already have it in the form of a God who created us and therefore we can accept ourselves.

CJ Milacci 

 I love both parts of what you said, but specifically first the second part. I love the point you brought out that God created each of us and we were made in His image. And I think He gave each of us a part of Himself. He's a God who is bigger than we can comprehend. And each of us have something specific that we can reflect of His image. And it's something that only I can reflect or only you can reflect. 

And if we are trying to, if I'm trying to be you or you're trying to be me, then we can't belong because we're not actually embracing who God made us to be and reflecting that part of His character that He wants us to reflect. So it does leave us feeling lost because we're trying to be someone else. And God's like, no, I have a purpose for you individually. 

And I know like for me, I can remember when that truth started to become a bigger part of my life and how it changed my life because I was very much not trying to be in a different culture because that wasn't my life. But for me, it was trying to be this friend or that friend or have that calling or this calling and almost drum it up within myself rather than just be who God had made me to be. And it always left me feeling at a loss because I can't be Candace Kade as cool as you are. I have to be me, you know? And so that is something that I think is so vital to learn. 

And I love that that's something that you're, you know, even if it's not fully said in the pages, it's something that you've brought out in the story that we can learn in our own lives. Such a powerful truth.

Candace Kade

Yeah, I just agree with that so much. I think so many people spend so much of their time trying to be like someone else, or like what our society idolizes. We wanna be prettier, stronger, faster, smarter, more successful, or like whoever of our friends is like that, or whoever in the media that we admire. But the truth is every single person has so much beauty and strength and just them being uniquely who they are have so much worth. And so I love it when people embrace their own unique calling, their own unique identity and they live that out. It's just so beautiful and I love to see that.

CJ Milacci 

Yes, I love that too. And can you remind me of the first thing you said? Because I had a thought and now I'm forgetting of that belonging package. You had like a first point and then that second point that we just discussed.

Candace Kade

Oh yes, so the first part was just I want people to see, I want them to feel seen and heard and like they're not just an outsider or lonely on their own.

CJ Milacci

Okay, yes. And I think that is so vital, especially in a culture where everything is kind of social media is such a huge part of it, which we're not here to discuss the merits or the woes of social media. But I think that can definitely have an impact because we see all these other people and it can be so easy to feel unseen, like, oh, I didn't get as many likes, or no one cared about this post that I did, or whatever the case may be, and just to feel like I'm the only one who feels this way or like this. 

And I think when we realize in stories or when we're talking to people that, oh, other people feel that way too, it can break down some of those lies in our minds that I'm alone and no one else understands and no one else is like this. And when we start to realize, oh no, this is an actual thing others struggle with, we can start to overcome that because it's like, well, no, I don't think that way about them. So maybe it's not true about me too. Which is I think a really powerful thing for our lives when we can break past that and realize, okay, God made me, I am seen, and I matter to other people around me, even if I don't feel like it in certain moments.

Candace Kade

Yeah, absolutely.

CJ Milacci 

When you sit down to write a story, do you have a theme like this in your mind as you're writing or do you have a story and then the theme kind of finds you later and you discover that this got woven in?

Candace Kade

That's a good question. I think it depends on the book. I think for Enhanced, I had always had this, I don't think I even thought of it in terms of a theme. I think I just always had this sort of feeling of this tension between worlds of West and East and where do I belong, that I knew I wanted to include in a book.

But yeah, I don't think I ever thought of it, sat down and thought, okay, this is the theme and it's about belonging. And eventually I did get to a point, you know, in the revisions, the multiple edits, where I'm like, okay, we need to fine tune this a little bit. But I think when I started out, it wasn't, oh, I have this clear theme that I want to put in the book. I'm definitely more of a, I start with the plot and the world building.

So I knew that I wanted to have a plot that centered around gene editing because it exists today in the form of CRISPR. Obviously we are not that advanced. People cannot breathe underwater yet, unfortunately, or do a lot of these things that are semi-terrifying. But we are getting there. There are some gene editing things that are happening today on the scientific front that are crazy and absolutely insane to look at and so I knew I wanted to write something about that and just what that could look like in our world if people had the ability to get gene edits.

But then I also knew having grown up in China that I always wanted to write something set loosely on Chinese culture. And at the time, I hadn't seen any sci-fi or fantasy novels set loosely in China. Since then, I have seen some fantasy novels come out, but I hadn't seen any sci-fi ones. And so as I was thinking about this plot of gene editing, I was living in Beijing at the time and I had put aside my fantasy novel and I wanted to write something new. And that's really when the idea came to me, you know, what if I made this a sci-fi novel set in Asia, but with these gene editing abilities? Like, what would that look like? 

And so for me, it's definitely, I love world building. I love mind blowing plots. I love plot twists so much. So for me, I usually start there. And then the themes sometimes just kind of seep in naturally. Sometimes I think in the editing, especially, I have to sit down and really polish those themes, but yeah, I'm definitely a plot and real building person first.

CJ Milacci 

Yes. I think that's why the theme flows so beautifully through your story, because it's not like you're preaching it, but it's woven into it. And I know that was through, I'm sure, countless hours of editing and rewrites, but it's done so well because the world is so real that you feel like this is a real person experiencing these real issues in it. And otherwise, it just feels like a paper world with this, you know, paper doll character who we can't relate to because it's not real enough. So you've given such a deep world, which makes sense that would be the way you went. 

Do you have a favorite character in your story?

Candace Kade

Yeah, I think Coral is probably my favorite character. She, you know, in this world where everyone cares so much about their social score or their soc, and they're all playing, you know, these games to try and link with other people so they can boost their social and they don't want to offend anyone. And, you know, they're all playing these games, but Coral just really isn't playing the game.

She doesn't wear the latest trends. In fact, she seems to wear things that people don't like. She just doesn't care.

So I really like her a lot. She's a camo. So she has like chameleon abilities so she can blend in with her surroundings. Um, she's like on the sort of military spy tracks. So she's really good at climbing and escaping and hacking into things. So she's just a really fun character. So probably, I probably really enjoyed coral.

CJ Milacci 

Yeah, I loved her too. She's very, I didn't know what to do with her at first, but I loved her once I got to know her more. Very cool character. 

Are there Easter Eggs in Enhanced?

Are there things that you hide in your stories, which I kind of know the answer to this question anyway, but secrets that only you know or Easter eggs or whatever, things that are hidden within the book or on the cover?

Candace Kade

No, I'm glad that you asked because I love talking about it and I don't actually think I've shared this on a podcast before. So you guys are the very first ones. So this is very exciting. But yeah, there are Easter eggs, both on the cover and then also in the book as well. So on the cover, you'll notice there are two sets of characters, one on the left hand side or four characters, I should say on the left hand side. And those are actually a Chen Yu or a Chinese saying. And it says Shui Luo Shi Chu, which means as the water begins to recede the rocks begin to show.

And it's really hinting at Urban's whole struggle with trying to fit in, but also hiding her identity, hiding her genetics, hiding the fact that she's a natural and will the truth come to light eventually. So basically one of the themes of the book. And then on the right hand side are the characters wushu, which means martial arts. One because that plays a role in the book and two just because I love martial arts and I’m obsessed and any time I can mention martial arts I will.

Then also inside the book in the chapter headings, you'll notice there's two sets of characters.

And at the beginning of the book, most of the book actually, they start with zi wai, which means self and then sort of outsider. So feeling, hinting at like not accepting yourself or feeling like an outsider. And then partially, towards the end, those characters actually changed to zi ai, which means like self love or acceptance, hinting at Urban's journey throughout the book. And so, yeah, those are some of the big Easter eggs.

There's also just little things in Mandarin. There's a lot of pinging in there that if you speak Mandarin, you might pick up on. If not, you probably won't. But yeah, there's a little, a few smaller Easter eggs for anyone who's fluent in Mandarin as well.

CJ Milacci

I didn't know that about, I knew there were Easter eggs, but I didn't know the depth of them and through the story. I love the chapter header thing. That's so cool. 

Candace Kade

Yeah, the chapter header is so fun. Most people don't notice it because the first character stays the same, za. And so they don't even notice that the last character actually changes at the end of the book, which I thought was really fun.

CJ Milacci

Yes, that's fantastic. Has anybody caught that? Any of your readers, have they seen it?

Candace Kade

I don't think anyone has reached out and been like, hey, this is strange. Why does it change at the end? I mean, I have told people and so those people are like, oh, so cool. But I don't think anyone on their own has noticed it yet. Yeah, we'll see if someone notices on their own someday.

CJ Milacci

We'll see. I'm glad you got to add that in. That's so cool.

Candace Kade

Yeah, I'm super grateful to my publisher because yeah, the initial cover of Enhance, it was just random characters. I think it was like a noodle shop or a wedding shop or something. And so I begged the cover designer, can we please make these, you know, characters significant? And then same for the typesetter. You know, she asked me, she was like, hey, do you want to do anything with these characters? And I was like, hey, actually, can we change it halfway through? And she was super willing to work with me.

I’m very grateful to my publisher for allowing me to work with my cover designer and typesetter to do that.

CJ Milacci 

Yes, so cool. Now, as we kind of wrap things up, can you just share a little bit about you? So maybe something quirky or different, unique about yourself that you don't, not everyone might know from your bio or something fun, fun facts about Candice.

Candace Kade

Yeah, something quirky. I feel like I have so many quirky things about me. Which one? I'll just rattle off a couple. We'll see which one's the most quirky. I enjoy brewing my own kombucha, making my own sourdough bread. I love Spartan races. One time I did two Spartan races back to back within like a week. I frequently still, even now, mispronounce many American words.

My husband probably on a bi-weekly basis has to correct some word that I've been saying my whole life. And then he'll be like, no, that's not how you say it. And I'm like, what? I've been saying it for so long. Are you kidding? No one corrected me. But I think people just either, you know, you feel bad correcting someone or they just think, oh, you know, it's a one time thing. She just kind of slurred her vowels or whatever. And it's like, nope, definitely have been mispronouncing it. I realize I say “kinner-garten”. I've been saying it wrong. Like my whole life, it's kindergarten. My husband was like, no, it's not kindergarten. There's a D in there, it's kindergarten. I was like, oh, okay. I mean, I know how to spell it. I don't, yeah, pronunciation. I still, yeah. So there we go.

CJ Milacci 

Those are so fun. I had no idea you brewed your own kombucha. That's so cool. I love kombucha. I've never even considered making it myself. How fun.

Candace Kade

It's really fun except when you have a snowpocalypse like we did in Texas, I think it was two years ago. And then you're supposed to keep the kombucha at like a general temperature. And of course our house was freezing. And so after like two weeks later, when we finally had power again, I, thankfully, I thought to open the kombucha outside because it just exploded. I never found the cap.

CJ Milacci 

Oh no.

Candace Kade

It like went flying… I don't know where it went flying. The whole thing was just fizz. Like by the time it was done, there was nothing left. It was all fizz, it all went away. So all of them exploded. It was great. So if you do decide to brew kombucha, make sure that you're not gonna have a snowpocalypse and that your house will always be the same temperature. And just to be safe, maybe always open them outside to make sure they didn't over-ferment and they're not gonna explode.

CJ Milacci

Oh my goodness, these are fun facts and tips for anyone who is considering brewing kombucha. I love it. Oh, wow, that's fantastic. 

Where can readers find Candace Kade?

CJ Milacci

And can you just let everyone know where they can find you online or social media?

Candace Kade

Sure. So you can go to my website, CandaceKade.com. That's C-A-N-D-A-C-E. And Kade is spelled K-A-D-E. You can get book one anywhere on Amazon, anywhere books are sold. And then book two is currently available for preorder. So yeah, you can go to my website and you can get those. You can sign up for my newsletter. I'm also active on Instagram @CandaceCadeAuthor.

CJ Milacci 

Wonderful, and I will put all of those links in the show notes so people can grab them nice and easy and go read this fantastic book. I think you guys will all really enjoy it.

Thank you, Candace, so much for coming on Read Clean YA with CJ. I loved having you. I loved getting to have this conversation.

Candace Kade

Thank you, I had so much fun as well. Thanks for having me.

Wrapping things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Candace Kade. Candace is a great friend and a wonderful author, and if you’re looking for an exciting Sci-Fi read with an awesome story world, incredible tech, and some very cool Hunger Games type vibes, then Enhanced is for you.

There are epic twists and turns, high-stakes, and mysteries to be unravelled in this story, and book two, Hybrid is also available for pre-order now 

Note for Sensitive Readers

I do want to give a quick content warning for sensitive readers. As I just mentioned, Enhanced has high, life and death stakes, as well as a sweet romance. The violence isn’t graphic, but there are some scary scenes and very bad bad guys that are worth notice if you or a younger friend or family member might be a little more sensitive to these things. And, to coin a phrase from Princess Bride, this is a kissing book. Nothing excessive, but as I mentioned there is a romance in the story, so if you’re not quite ready for that, it’s something to be aware of.

Don’t Forget The October Goodies Giveaway!

Candace Kade has also graciously agreed to include an early ebook Advanced Reader Copy of Hybrid, book two in the series, in this month’s giveaway, so don’t forget to check out the October Giveaway for Read Clean YA with CJ and find her book along with some other great Young Adult books. 

You can find the episode show notes at readcleanya.com.

Coming Next Week

Next week I’ll be talking with YA author Jamie Foley, author of Emberhawk. If you’re a lover of fantasy stories, then you’re going to enjoy this interview and love the book. And even if fantasy isn’t always your thing, you’ll love hearing from Jamie. She’s humble, sweet, and a lot of fun. Don’t forget to tune in.

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend so they can discover exciting, clean young adult books too.  

What would happen if a video game became reality? With YA author Bradley Caffee

The Episode Transcript can be found here: https://cjmilacci.com/read-clean-ya-with-cj-podcast/ 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase Sides (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3t4IeTA  

Bradley Caffee’s Website: https://www.bradleycaffee.com

Bradley Caffee’s Instagram: @bradleycaffeeauthor

Check out the Hobbit Hole: https://www.instagram.com/p/CxhFoGdMJpg/

September Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/ftix57/september-goodies-giveaway

You can watch the video of this episode here: https://youtu.be/aEMKjhWzxy4 

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci:

Welcome, my friend. You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories without the objectionable content. I'm your host, award-winning young adult author CJ Milacci. And in this episode, we are going to dive into an author interview with my friend and fellow young adult author, Bradley Caffee. 

Bradley Caffee discovered his love for storytelling during his twelve years of speaking and teaching as a pastor. He graduated at the top of his class in 2000 from the Moody Bible Institute before going on to complete his M.A. at Dallas Theological Seminary, ultimately pastoring churches in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and Orlando, Florida. When vocational ministry ended in pastoral burnout, writing became a critical outlet for Bradley during his recovery, which resulted in the birth of his debut novel series.

Bradley and his wife of 23 years now own and run multiple small businesses, including Alexander Homestead, a nationally top-ranked wedding venue and was featured on Season 9 of Lifetime’s Married at First Sight. 

When not managing his business, he enjoys losing himself in reading and writing fiction, especially YA dystopian, where he enjoys showing that hope can invade darkness. He is a stock-holding fan of the Green Bay Packers, a bit of a body builder and fitness freak, a complete Star Wars geek, and an avid board game player. He, his wife, their two teenagers, and the world’s three most unmanly dogs, live in North Carolina where they just finished work on their very own backyard hobbit hole. 

Bradley, welcome to the show.

Bradley Caffee:

It's great to be here CJ, thanks for having me on.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, I'm so excited to have you and to dive into this story. Today, we're going to be talking about his new dystopian book. I love dystopian and so does Bradley. And today we're gonna talk about his newest book, Sides. And I would love for you to just share a little bit about it with our listeners.

What is Sides about?

Bradley Caffee:

Yeah, so Sides was just kind of this story that was birthed when I had this idea of so much of our culture, we're kind of focused on our phones, you know, kind of always looking down and I imagined what would happen if the tables were turned? What if our phones began to take over us? And I imagine this world, you know, seeing all these young people that play these games and are obsessed with kind of these online interactions that they have, what would happen if those online interactions began to dictate their actions? uncontrollably. What would happen? What kind of chaos would descend upon the world? So that's really kind of where the story got its birthing place was what if this happened? 

And so essentially Sides is about a game really a game that everybody's obsessed with nationwide and the game begins to take over its users and they start turning into their avatars. So instead of hunting each other online They start hunting each other in real life. And the story is told from the perspective of a young man who his dad didn't let him play. So he's watching everything, you know, descend into madness around him and nothing's happening to him until he finds out his young sister was secretly playing the game, but had just started. So she is a low level player. She is fresh meat for the kill. And so he's got to run to protect her.

CJ Milacci:

This story is so exciting and it takes place like right at the beginning, right before this all happens, right? So the computer game hasn't taken over anyone yet. The first chapter kind of opens with the main character a little annoyed that the rest of the world is as obsessed with this game as they are. So it's intriguing to look at the story from that perspective. I love worlds that begin with a what if question that kind of just explodes it in the craziest possible way, which you definitely did with sides. So I started this book, I haven't finished it yet, but I am already so into it and loving it. And I think especially for the male readers out there who are looking for that male protagonist in a story, they're gonna love this book in particular. 

We kind of already talked about how the story came about in your mind, that dreaming what if scenario that led to it. Who do you think is going to resonate the most with this story? Are there readers or book, readers who read certain books or readers who like certain things that you think would really love Sides and the elements you've put in there?

Bradley Caffee:

I mean, yeah, outside anyone who just loves sci-fi or dystopia and those kind of people who are going to pick up any book like this and read it. Really, I wrote this book for my son. My son does not read what I write. He's not interested. He is not a reader, but he is a gamer. And his world and in fact, I'm wearing his headphones right now. His world is wrapped up in some of these online things. This is how he interacts with people. He and his friends are constantly online. And he said, Dad, if you write a story. that involves a game. I could get into that. 

So I was really trying to reach this segment of readers or maybe even non-readers who, you know, they're not opposed to reading, but they're just looking for a story that appeals to them. And I think some of that young male demographic that this is the world that they're into, might like to engage in a story that involves those kinds of things. They understand some of the terminology about users and non-player characters and... Some of these things that are introduced in this story, they're gonna go, yep, I get what that's all about, and I get why that would play out kind of funny in the real world.

CJ Milacci:

For sure, and it's almost that demographic that maybe doesn't have a book written for them as much because they're in the gaming world, but they might enjoy separating from that for a moment to read a story that kind of touches on the things that they understand in their own life. Yeah, for sure, I love that. I'm not a gamer myself, so I've never been good at it. I'm a button masher and always annoyed the people I played video games with, but I have friends who love gaming and that world, and it is a world. There's stories and friendships that develop just from being in these games. I love that you have a book that's kind of targeted to that reader or even non-reader who might pick it up just because they resonate with that world. 

Do you have a favorite character in your story that it's like, oh, this is my guy or my girl that I really love writing about or thinking about?

Bradley Caffee:

Yeah, there's two that come to mind. One is Carley, who's Tyler's younger sister, who was secretly playing the game. And that's not a spoiler, that's given away, like right at the beginning of the book. I love her character, but I can't tell you why, because you haven't finished the story, and I don't want that to spoil anything. But when you finish the story, you'll know why I love Carley.

CJ Milacci:

Okay.

Bradley Caffee:

The other one is Brooklyn. and Brooklyn is a character that Tyler meets and she's part of a community that is trying to protect each other. So the game is divided. You're either a predator or you're prey. And so when the game becomes real, the prey start to almost have this herd mentality of protecting each other. And she's kind of this tough as nails survivalist young woman who Tyler interacts with and she's a prey player, but she's very high level. And I just love the dynamic that she brings because one of the things that comes out in this story is she played the game as a predator and ended up quitting and starting over as prey. I won't give away what that does in this story, but it creates this little complexity to her ability in the game, in the real life game, and what she is able to do that becomes absolutely pivotal to the story.

CJ Milacci:

Wow, I'm so intrigued. Another reason to pick up the book later today and keep going with it. Very exciting. I also love the name Carli selfishly because that is my name. So my family all calls me Carli. So I'm like, oh, that's cool. Spelled differently, but you know, that's great.

Bradley Caffee:

Yeah. Almost everyone in this book is named after someone I know. I'm sorry it wasn't named after you, but you know.

CJ Milacci:

That's so fun. So do they all know that they were named after characters in this book? 

Bradley Caffee:

They do. They do.

For example, Brooklyn, that's my daughter. Her middle name is Brooke. So it became Brooklyn. She's like, Dad, I want to be inserted into one of your stories. And my son, who I wrote this for, his name is Hunter. And yeah, there's a character early in the book. He's a movie star and his name is, his last name is Hunter. So yeah, I told him you'll be in there somewhere. If you want a bigger role, you got to read my books. So

CJ Milacci:

Yes. Hey, that's a great ultimatum there. See the next story with your name in it and you just have to read my other books first.

How Hope Can Invade Darkness — Deeper Themes in Sides

Now let's talk a little bit more about the theme behind your stories. So I know a big theme for you is hope. Even in your bio, you say that you enjoy showing hope that can invade darkness. And it's something that I am so passionate about, something I believe is vital in our world today for people to understand and especially for teens and young adults where hopelessness seems to be abounding more than ever before. So I would just love to hear from you. Why is this theme so important to you? Why is it something you're so passionate about?

Bradley Caffee:

Particularly with this story, I look at younger people today, and really people of all ages. I mean, gaming is not just limited to the younger generation, but it's particularly prevalent there. There's this sense of not knowing who we are as people. And one of the reasons the online world is so appealing is we can sort of reinvent ourselves. We can recreate ourselves into this fictional person in this fictional world where we seem to advance very quickly and we can do whatever we want. And we kind of understand that. We've created it so we can kind of wrap our fingers around what it is. But it's to the detriment of coming to understand who we are. And I think that leaves a lot of younger people, especially just with this. sense of hopelessness when it comes to finding out who they've been created to be. And this book is a bit of a hyperbolic look at that. Like what happened if we fully went over the edge into our online persona and it took over us and we really became that person. And there's really the sense of wanting to encourage people to look up from their devices and to see the world around them and to understand that they are an incredible person who was made to be creative and wonderful and beautiful and inventive and do things that nobody else can do. that that's who they are. That's where they will find hope for their future. That they were created for purpose and they don't need to dive into this fake persona that at least they understand. That they can understand who they've been made to be.

CJ Milacci:

I love that and identity and purpose are so much a part of hope because if we think that we don't have a purpose It's easy to just become depressed and give up on life and want to create a world where we can understand everything and we just make it what we think is the “best” thing or whatever So I love that picture and that idea of like let's look up. Let's see the world around us Let's realize that there's a bigger purpose here than just you know this game or this thing that we thought was so cool for a while, which really leaves us empty at the end of the day. 

Because like you said, we were created for more. So until we walk in that and embrace that, we can't fully understand all that we were made for. And I hope many readers get that theme in their own hearts and lives. That that’s something that they walk away with because it's so vital. 

So this sounds like something you actually did on purpose, like that you had an intention when you went into the story with that in mind. Did you or is it something you kind of discovered after the book was written that you had woven that theme into it?

Bradley Caffee:

I think I found it part way. I really just went in to write a good story. I had this idea. I said, let's run with it. That's how a lot of my books begin, is I just kind of have a, I know where I am at the beginning and I kind of know where I want to get to at the end. I have no idea what the middle is going to look like. So I think about partway into the story, I started to realize that this was not just a survival story. 

This wasn't just a story about characters having to live out this game that had become very real. It was also trying to figure out who they are. And you see the game through the eyes of this non-player character that when the game suddenly becomes real, he doesn't understand who he is in this new dynamic that the world operates under. He's a nobody. There's even one point where like, you know, this predator player comes up to him and like smells him and says, you're a non-player, you're nothing. And he doesn't understand how to help the world around him because he cannot engage in this thing that's going on. 

And yet he discovers that being a non-player character has advantages and he's able to use them for the protection of his sister and the other people that he's met. So yeah, it was kind of a gradual sort of thing to where I got to the end of the book I was like, oh my goodness, this is really a story about identity and who we are. And I won't give away the big ending, but at the ending, there's a person who has to make a very important choice. And that what they choose is gonna determine who they are for the rest of their life. And without giving anything else away, I worked that in because I'm like that. That's really what this story is about. 

And I tried to write a little bit about it in my note at the end of the book of just letting people know you are so much more than this thing that you've created online. Yes, that's comfortable, but there's so much more outside of that is so much better. And we need to lift our eyes up from our device and see that person.

CJ Milacci:

That's so powerful and it resonates with me for sure. And I'm excited for this story and how God might use it to really encourage certain people to see that they're more than that. 

And I mentioned this before, but I do believe that as much as the whether it's an Instagram persona or a gaming persona or whatever online virtual persona there might be, there's something that is fake there and we feel that. And that emptiness begins to really weigh on us. If that's where we're focusing and living and finding our identity and purpose, it's just so much a shadow of what we're supposed to be and who we were created to be that it leaves us feeling empty and lost. And I do think there are those vital decision moments. And so I love that there is a point in your story at the end, which I can't wait to get to, where that character has to make that choice. 

Because how often is that true in our lives where there's a crossroads and the decision we make is going to have an impact on the rest of our lives? And I think what we choose to do, if I choose to always live in my persona online or if I choose to actually embrace who God made me to be, that's going to make a difference on what actually happens over the course of my days. And that's something that's weighty but also kind of exciting because we realize, oh, there can be something bigger to my life than just this thing I've created. Because our creations are often feeble attempts at something so much bigger that we know in our hearts we were made for. 

What started you on your journey to be an author? 

Bradley Caffee:

Yeah, you know, well, you mentioned a little bit of my bio. My former career was as a minister. And unfortunately that ended in burnout. Topic for another time. Something I have a lot of passion about seeing happen a lot less. I believe it's on the rise. It hits me, hits very close to home for me when I see it happen in other people's lives. 

But I guess when I exited my career, I really didn't understand who I was. I didn't understand what I was supposed to do with the rest of my life. And it was a very dark season for me. I was actually diagnosed with depression during that time and had to see a therapist for a lot of years as part of my recovery. And it was early in those days that I had the idea suddenly come to mind about my original debut trilogy. And I had a friend who pulled me aside. He said, Bradley, he said, you know, the only time you seem to light up is when you talk about writing a book. I think you should do it. Because you don't have much else right now. 

And it was just kind of this very blunt honesty of this friend of mine who said, you're in a dark place and I don't like what I'm seeing, but you smile every time you talk about writing. So why don't you give it a shot? And I was unemployed, had lots of time on my hands and sat down and started to type out my debut novel and discovered this world that I really enjoyed being in. I loved writing story and loved diving into the characters and seeing the plot come together. 

I sometimes feel very apologetic about being a writer because I got into it very late in life. I have no degree in this. I never set out to be a writer. I hated books growing up and yet now here I feel like I'm playing catch-up in the writing world. But I love every minute of it. I love penning these stories and why do I write dystopian? It might just be because of where I was at in life when this when this started. I was in a dark place and I was holding onto any glimmer of light that I could find. 

And I guess I wanted to write stories that mirrored that. That showed people that it doesn't matter how dark a season you're in, there's still hope. There's still reason for joy. There are bits of light that can shine brightly in the darkness that we can hold on to tightly and cling to get us through because the dark times don't last forever. There is a way out of them. There is hope to be found. We just need to give it that time and to be patient with the process. So I guess I write dark stories for that reason because I like seeing the redemption at the end.

CJ Milacci:

Thank you for sharing because I'm sure that's a difficult time to even remember. Those hard seasons, it’s like the desert that we crawl out of and sometimes it's hard to even look back on them. So thank you for sharing that with us. And I'm sure there are many who understand and relate and can think, oh yeah, I've been there. I've had that dark, dark season where I feel like I don't even know who I am anymore. I don't know what I'm supposed to do or who I'm supposed to be. And that is a difficult place to be in. And I love that Jesus used parables to teach deep truths. And I think he still, God still loves to take stories and use them to teach deep truths to us and bring us out of dark places. 

Because sometimes hearing the same thing you've heard or for you even that you taught over and over again, it doesn't really matter. But when you pick up a book and you're like, well that character's in a real dark place and they're real low right now and I can resonate with that. And then you can watch how they come out of that and find hope. That can bring hope to our own lives. And we realized like, oh, maybe I don't have to live here. Maybe this dark place isn't the end. 

And I know in my own life, I had a really dark depression season, which I had never been depressed before. It was so weird to me. I didn't understand depression until I had it in my own life. And then it was like, oh, this is what that is. This is why that's so hard. And in the middle of it, it's hard to see that that's ever gonna end. I had people say, oh, this isn't all that God has for you. You'll be out of that. And that's not how you feel when you're in the middle of it. 

But then to pick up a story, that can say that and that can speak that truth. And I know stories have been so powerful in my own life for helping me in those dark times, because it gives you that escape. But when we have a bigger hope too, than just this world, and we know that God has a plan that's bigger than just this moment, that can also give us that hope to come out of the season that we're in, this dark place that we found ourselves in. And thank you for sharing, and thank you for writing these kinds of stories. I know it's important, especially in the world we're in now, how many people? just see hopelessness abounding in their own lives, in their families, in the culture around them. 

So I'm sure even listeners now can resonate with where you've been and have some hope that they might too see the other side of that one day in their lives by God's grace. 

Hobbit Holes and Fun Behind-The-Scenes Facts about Bradley Caffee

To move on to a slightly lighter topic here. You shared some very fun things in your bio, lots of just interesting tidbits about you and things that you've done. I feel like we just need to highlight one of them because it was a little bit ago now that we talked about it. I don't even care which one. You have that very fun list at the end. Although the one that I'm most intrigued by is the fact that you have a hobbit hole in your backyard. Like that is fantastic. So what inspired you guys to create a hobbit hole?

Bradley Caffee:

A couple years ago, we finished our home construction. We, you know, we stayed in our same neighborhood, but they were building some new homes and we liked some of the models. So we're like, let's move. It was a great time to sell your house. And so we managed to sell our house at the peak and buy before the new construction went crazy. So it was an ideal time for us to jump on that. So we bought this plot of land and built this house that we love. 

But one of the things we didn't love about it is the backyard was flat and then it was a giant hill and we're like, what are we going to do with this thing? And we had a lot of ideas, you know some raised gardens and things a staircase going up. We built all of that, but when we brought out our landscaper we just got to talking about this one section of the hill that just seemed really useless and He's like are you guys like into nerdy stuff? I'm like, what are you talking about? Cuz I kind of am. He's like, What if we like constructed a hobbit hole? And oh my goodness, like of course, I immediately was like, yes, this is an amazing idea. Oh, my wife, who's not as nerdy as I am, she grew up with her dad reading her The Lord of the Rings. So she was all about it. And he's like, well, I would love to just do it as a project, I'll do it at cost. 

So we started this construction project and he brought out the heavy equipment. He dug an eight by eight room into the hill made out of cinder blocks and then covered it all up. And we now have a working operating hobbit hole in our backyard, complete with a green round door. You can open it. It's not a facade. You can go inside. It has wood ceilings. It's got hobbit-sized furniture. It's got a little fireplace. The one ring is sitting on the mantle next to Bilbo's pipe and the pictures of his parents and everything.

CJ Milacci:

Amazing.

Bradley Caffee:

I don't know what we're gonna do with it. It's just kind of, we just kind of wanted it. And we figured, yeah, we actually had some neighbors turn their nose up to it. They're like, what are you guys doing? You're bringing down the value of our home. I said, uh-uh, for the right buyer, this raises the value of our home.

CJ Milacci:

Definitely,

Bradley Caffee:

It's been so funny to watch other people because a lot of people walk in our neighborhood. It's just kind of a nice place to be outside. And people walk by who haven't seen it. And I've got some security cameras on the exterior of my home and I'll watch them sneak up my driveway to get a good look. 

I remember this one morning I woke up and the cameras were going off and I open it up and there's this one she's tiptoeing up the driveway and she sees it and she does this like hopping dancing like oh my goodness they actually really built a hobbit hole like she was so excited but the funny part was her husband back at the sidewalk who was just shaking his head doing this like really you're sneaking up their driveway to look in their backyard kind thing so it's made quite a splash um And I figure if the next owners of this home don't want it, they can convert it to a shed or a wine cellar or anything they want to do. 

But we unapologetically built a hobbit hole in our backyard and we love it. It's got some natural air conditioning because it's partly buried in the ground. It's kind of a nice little place to go hide when you need to.

CJ Milacci:

I love it. That's fantastic. And if you ever want to do a dystopian story with a hobbit hole in it, you have a perfect inspirational place to go sit and think about the story.  

Bradley Caffee:

There we go. It's my very own hobbit-sized storm shelter, I guess. Ha ha ha.

CJ Milacci:

It's fun to have those unique pieces because they're the things that start conversations. People you may never have talked to before will actually start chatting with you about because who doesn't love talking about something cool like a hobbit hole, right?

Bradley Caffee:

We had someone ring our doorbell a couple weeks ago. Just rang the doorbell and said, I see your hobbit hole, can I go take a closer look?

Never met her, complete stranger.

CJ Milacci:

Oh, I love it. Well, I think we're just about out of time for today, but before we go, can you just share where readers can find you and your book and connect with you?

Where can you find Sides and connect with Bradley Caffee?

Bradley Caffee:

Yeah, definitely check out my website. It's bradleycaffeee.com. You can find me, of course, on the social media channels. Instagram is the best place at bradleycaffeeeauthor. And then, of course, my books are in all the usual locations. Sides is pretty much on Amazon because I publish through KDP, so that would be the best location to locate that. If you do search my name, Caffee, it's gonna think you're looking for a coffee product unfortunately. So you have to tell Amazon, no I really want Bradley Caffee, not Bradley Coffee. So then you'll find me, no problem.

CJ Milacci:

Yes. And we'll have links to all of these things in the show notes to make it nice and easy as well. And Bradley Caffee, thank you for being on Read Clean YA with CJ. It was so much fun getting to have this conversation with you today.

Bradley Caffee:

Thank you for having me on CJ, it was great.

Wrapping things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Bradley Caffee. It was fun for me to get to chat with him and hear more of his heart behind his stories. Since recording this episode, I was able to finish Sides, and boy was it an adventure. There were unexpected twists, shocking moments, and glimpses of bravery that came in different ways. This book was a blast. And I have a feeling that if you enjoy the gaming world at all, you’ll find this book to be something you can relate to. As fun as it is to dive into a story that explores what would happen if a video game took control of its players in real life, I think the deeper theme behind the story is even better. And Bradley did a wonderful job of displaying this theme throughout the story in organic ways.

Note for Sensitive Readers

I do want to give a quick content warning for sensitive readers. As Bradley and I discussed during the interview, the premise of Sides is that the game becomes real, so people actively hunt each other. The violence is never graphic and is often “off camera” or off the page, but it’s worth noting if you (or a younger friend or family member) might be a little more sensitive to these things. Again, Bradley does a great job of dealing with some scary elements without it being over-the-top or gory, but there are life and death stakes throughout the book.

As he mentioned at the end of our interview, Sides is available primarily on Amazon, and I’ve included a link in the show notes for you to head over and grab your copy.

Don’t Forget The September Goodies Giveaway!

Bradley Caffee has also graciously agreed to include an eBook copy of Sides in this month’s giveaway, so don’t forget to check out the September Giveaway for Read Clean YA with CJ and find his book along with some other great Young Adult books.

You can find the episode show notes at readcleanya.com.

Coming Next Week

Next week I’ll be talking with YA author Candace Kade, author of Enhanced. I love this book, and Candace is a great friend, so I am excited to share that interview with you. Don’t forget to tune in.

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend so they can discover exciting, clean young adult books too.  

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase a Signed Copy of Sara’s books through Changing Hands Bookstore (don’t forget to ask for her to sign it in the order comments!): https://www.changinghands.com/search/site/Sara%20ella 

Purchase The Looking-Glass Illusion: https://www.amazon.com/Looking-Glass-Illusion-Curious-Realities/dp/B0BXNKR57K/ 

Purchase The Wonderland Trials: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1621842142

Sara Ella’s Website: https://saraella.com

Sara Ella Instagram: @saraellawrites

September Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/ftix57/september-goodies-giveaway

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci:

Welcome, my friend. You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories without the objectionable content. I'm your host, award-winning young adult author CJ Milacci, and in this episode we are going to have an author interview with my friend and fellow young adult author Sara Ella. 

Once upon a time, Sara Ella dreamed she would marry a Disney prince and live in a castle. Now she spends her days homeschooling her three Jedi in training, braving the Arizona summers and reminding her superhero husband that it's almost Christmas, even if it's only January. When she's not writing, Sara might be found behind her camera lens or planning her next adventure to California, a lover of fairy tales she believes happily ever after is never far away. Sara, welcome to the show.

Sara Ella:

Thank you so much for having me, CJ.

CJ Milacci:

I'm so glad to have you here. I love your books and your stories. You just create these fabulous, fantastical worlds, and I am so excited because today we're going to get to talk about your newest book, The Looking-Glass Illusion in the Curious Realities duology. And book one, if for anyone who doesn't know, is The Wonderland Trials, which is also a fabulous story. So I'm currently reading book two and loving it, and I so enjoyed The Wonderland Trials. So if you could just tell us a little bit about the stories, that would be great.

Diving Deeper into the YA Curious Realities Duology

Sara Ella:

Absolutely. So the Wonderland Trials is what it sounds like. It's a retelling of Alice in Wonderland. It's a YA dystopian fantasy with a pinch of sci-fi. And it follows a girl named Alice who lives in a future version of Oxford. In Alice's world you have Normals and then you have Wonders, Wonders who were born with the Wonder Gene, but it's illegal to have the Wonder Gene. And so Alice believes she is Normal. Soon her sister gets arrested and she goes on a topsy-turvy adventure of being invited to play in the annual Wonderland Trials, but she has to find her way into Wonderland, which is in sort of like a virtual reality type world in order to be able to play. And so that launches Alice off into her adventure. 

She finds out that the games or the trials are not what they seem, that players go missing every year, and she has to work with her team, Team Heart. in order to discover what is happening to the missing players and where the real Wonderland has gone off to. And that launches her into Book 2, which is the Looking Glass Illusion, which follows Alice and her team as they go through the final trial of the Wonderland Trials, which is the Heart Trial.

CJ Milacci:

Yes. Oh, so good. I can't say enough how much I've enjoyed this series. It's so much fun. And like I said, I haven't finished the second book yet, but I'm into it already. And I love how you've woven all these different things together because you have the fun of fairy tale retellings and then this fantasy world, but then some sci fi elements and the dystopian kind of feel as well. And all of those things are things I love, and you just wove them together in a beautiful way. It's such a fun, fun story, as everyone can hear just hearing you talk about it now. So yeah, it's fantastic. 

How did the idea for the duology come about?

Sara Ella:

So I wanted to do a duology because I feel like I guess I never do the same thing twice and so I tackled a trilogy, then I tackled a standalone, and now I decided, hey, let's try a duology. But it fit really well with Alice in Wonderland because of Lewis Carroll's two original stories, which is Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass and what Alice found there. And so I knew a duology is perfect if I'm going to retell these two stories. And that's really why I wanted to tackle the two book series. And I thought, hey, this will be easier than a trilogy. And of course, it presented its own challenges. 

But I love Alice. I've always loved Alice. I grew up loving Alice in Wonderland. I played Alice at Disney in my college years. So that was something where it felt like coming full circle to write a retelling of Alice in Wonderland. And thankfully, Enclave Publishing, my publisher, agreed.

CJ Milacci:

Yeah, that's so neat. So it is fun because you actually pretended to be Alice for a while and then you wrote her story, which is a neat thing that I don't think a lot of authors can say about their books. So that's very cool. 

Do you feel like your Alice is similar or different to the original Alice in Alice in Wonderland?

Sara Ella:

I would say that she is both. So she has a similar elements. I always say that there's always a sprinkle of Disney in my books. I grew up watching Disney classics, the original Disney animated films, going to Disney parks. So there's always going to be a little bit of that inspiration in my books, but I always like to make my characters my own. And so Alice in my books definitely has that curious, no-nonsense type attitude in a similar way that Disney's and even Lewis Carroll's Alice has. But she also has some different things that she's dealing with. 

She's dealing with the fears of being alone and so she tends to push people away because she really doesn't have any close friends. She was raised by her older sister and she doesn't know what happened to her parents. So she's kind of a loner, she's kind of doing things on her own, and what I really love about my Alice is that she wears glasses, so in that way she's very different. She has a stigmatism, which is something I've dealt with my whole life, and she also loves to play games. She's a card player, she's a pickpocket, so in that way I would say she's definitely very different from the little girl Disney version.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, definitely. But I love the card playing pick pocket version so much. It kind of makes her feel more modern in some ways because the Disney version can feel like the childhood version and this feels like the teen version, the young adult version, which is where this book fits. So of course it would. But it makes Alice kind of a cool new character in some ways. And yet you do hold to so many of the things that would be the reason somebody loves Alice from Alice in Wonderland. 

When a fairy tale retelling can do that, when it can hold true to some of the heart of the fairy tale that we love, but yet bring its own twist, I think that's what makes fairy tale retellings so much fun and really come to life on their own. Because we want something new, but also the same as what we love. And I think you did that really well. 

I love games and puzzles and card tricks and all of that stuff. And you have that, especially in the Wonderland trials, they're all throughout that book from the beginning and then through the story. And you have so many different types of games and puzzles in there. How did you come up with all of that? I know there's some of that is maybe in the original book, but you've gone above and beyond in what you've added into your story.

Sara Ella:

Yeah, that's a great question. I love games. I love games. I love competition. And I felt like a lot of the Alice in Wonderland retellings that were out there were really focusing on the madness aspect or the darker aspects of Lewis Carroll's world. And while I don't see anything wrong with definitely exploring those themes, it wasn't the kind of theme I wanted to explore. I loved that so much of Alice is centered around games where you have the soldiers of the queen are cards, and you have croquet. Everything just felt like there were games. Even the riddles that the Cheshire cat gives Alice are games in my mind.

CJ Milacci:

Yeah.

Sara Ella:

And because we love games in my family, and actually if you read the Looking Glass Illusion for those who are listening, I think by the time this comes out it will have released.

CJ Milacci:

Yes.

Sara Ella:

You can see in the dedication that the second book is actually dedicated to my daughter Whom Maddie Hatter is named after and it says to Maddie who loves games. Because she is my she is a girl after her mama's heart. She is competitive She's always the one saying let's play a family game tonight. And then the second part of the dedication says to Janelle also who taught me how to play this one because my friend Janelle taught me how to play chess 

So I love the game aspect and I just wanted to make Alice's world something, especially with the Wonderland trials that she's in, to be something that readers could feel almost like they were living it out with her, that they were trying to solve the puzzles with her, that they were doing the escape room with her. And I really was inspired by, obviously, books like The Hunger Games. Of course my book does not have children dying, but children do go missing. And then I love Marie Lu's Warcross, which really dives into that virtual reality idea. And then the movie Ready Player One. I haven't read the book, but I love the movie.

And all of those, just the games, my kids love games from board games to video games. So it just felt like a natural progression of something that our family loves and turning it into something. in a book and it was definitely something where as I'm writing it because I'm a discovery writer, I had no idea what the answers to the riddles were or how to solve the clues and I was kind of figuring it out with Alice as she was trying to figure out the clues. So that was an interesting journey.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, I can imagine that would have been a little bit of a wild ride for you to write down the riddle and then have to figure out exactly what you were thinking, what they were going to have to discover. That's great. 

And I really appreciate that you gave some other books and movies that are similar because I think that's really helpful for listeners to be able to know, oh, I did love that aspect of this book or this movie. And it can be helpful to see what they enjoyed before and how they might enjoy your books as well. And I think those are all fantastic comp titles, so to speak, to go with the Wonderland Trials and the Looking Glass illusion. 

We talked about the puzzles and the games and everything, but do you have a character in your story that is maybe, I don't know, favorite is such a dangerous word because really it's like picking a favorite child, right? It's hard to do that. But, um, or maybe a character or a scene you really enjoyed writing or somebody you like to kind of get in their head.

Sara Ella:

I feel like everybody expects me to say Chess Shire, who is the love interest. And I do love Chess. And I love Alice because Alice is very much like me. She's very serious and kind of no-nonsense, whereas Chess is very much like my husband. And he is very sarcastic and he likes to tease Alice. So that was really something fun to write. I loved writing Chess in that way. And so... 

Of course I love all my characters, like you said, it's like picking a favorite child, but I will say, especially since we're talking about the Looking Glass Illusion, that Knave Hart grew on me in ways that I did not expect him to, and I won't spoil anything, but in the Wonderland trials, he's kind of more in the background. We get a little bit a little taste of his backstory and why he acts the way that he does and why he kind of keeps himself separate from his team. But in the Looking Glass Illusion, I got to explore a lot more about who his character is. And it was just really fun and there's a little nod and again, I can't, I don't want to spoil things, but there is a little nod to who Nave ends up being to Alice and his team, and particularly to Alice, who he ends up being to her is a nod to something about my daughters. And so I can't give that away, but if anybody listens to this and they read it and they wanna message me on Instagram or something and say, hey, I read it now, can you give me that little spoiler, I can tell them. But Nave and Alice's relationship is... was something I put in there for my daughters. And so once you discover what that is, it's really fun and I enjoyed writing him.

CJ Milacci:

Oh, neat. And now everyone can go get the book because by the time this airs, the Looking Glass Illusion will be available. So you can go read it and discover it and then message Sara and find out that inside scoop there.

What does it look like to have writing as your calling?

CJ Milacci:

So neat. All right. So I love to talk about deeper themes in stories because I think stories can demonstrate truth in ways that maybe we wouldn't understand or hear it if someone just said it to us. And your stories really just have so much depth to them. And every book I've read of yours, I find that there's something deeper that I get out of the book than just a fun read. And I also always get a fun read. So there is that as well. But I just love to ask, why do you write stories and what themes do you find that you discover in your books by the time they're done? Especially in this series.

Sara Ella:

Well, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate the compliment. I love to write. I've always loved to write. I've always loved storytelling, particularly visual storytelling. As much as I'm a reader, and I'm a writer, and I love books, I love film. I love film so much. And I feel like that's something that I don't talk about very much with kind of my... writer and reader circles because we're readers. We're supposed to have bookshelves. I think I own more movies than books, honestly, if I'm being truly honest. I love film and so that visual storytelling, there's just something about that. And so I love being able to hopefully create a very visual world with my stories. 

And with that, I'm always exploring different themes that mean something very personal to me, but I don't really discover what the true theme of my story is until God decides to give it to me. And so he always likes to wait till the last minute. My stories really are an outpouring of love for the Lord and obedience to him, to the calling that I believe that he's placed on my life to write. 

And so when writers ask me like, how do you find time to write? How do you make time and balance it with your busy schedule? And I just say you have to see writing as, Is it a calling that God has put on your life? And if you're not writing, at least for me, I feel like if I'm not writing, I am not obeying the call on my life that God has placed on me. And so I like to look at it that way rather than just, oh, I'll write when I feel like it because I don't always feel like it. And I do feel like it grows my relationship with the Lord and it draws me closer to him because he helps me discover truths that he wants to teach me. 

Through my own writing, each book was written in a different season of my life. And for example, with Unblemished, which is my first book and my debut novel, if I'm looking at it from a craft perspective, I could say, well, as a better writer, now that I have six books under my belt, I could go back and maybe edit Unblemished and tweak some things and make it sound better. But at the same time, I have to remember, I was a totally different person in a totally different season when I wrote that book and God had me write that book at that time for a reason. 

And so each time I'm tackling a new story I lay it before the Lord and I say, Lord this is for your glory. Give me the words to write and the story to tell. And it's a refining process of me as a writer but also me as a child of God and I think God has a sense of humor because He does not let me truly understand the true deeper theme and meaning of my stories until the last minute. And I truly think it's so that I cannot take credit for it. The glory goes to him. 

And so I write because the Lord has called me to, and I write to hopefully reach readers on a very real and personal level so that they can see themselves in my stories and my characters, but also that they can see the heart behind it and that they can see that hope, that hope and light that I always try to put into my stories that reflects the love of Christ.

CJ Milacci:

Mm-hmm. My heart resonates so deeply with everything you just said because that's the reason I write too. It's not just because I love stories— because I do love stories— but because on a deeper level I believe it's something God has called me to. 

And Isn't that how God works when he calls us to something?

It's not just because he can't do it and he needs us to step forward and do this thing it's because he wants to invite us into something he's already doing and then oftentimes, at least for me, I find that it's about refining me and making me more like Jesus, more than me accomplishing something great for Him. And through the process, I see more of my brokenness and inability and then watch Him in His grace work through that so that I come to that same place like what you just said, get to that point where it's like, well, I couldn't have done that on my own. Like for you, the themes in your books. Okay, that came out at the very end of this, it's not something you did, it's something God did through you in your story, and then he gets the glory. 

But it is incredible when we can enter into that process with him and then watch him work. And I do love how he does that for you with the themes and how he doesn't really show you it until at the very last second. For this particular duology do you mind sharing some of the themes or some of your heart behind the stories that maybe you discovered at the very end.

Diving Deeper: What are some of the themes in The Looking-Glass Illusion?

Sara Ella:

Absolutely. So with the Wonderland Trials, there is a thread in there that has to do with the Ivory King. And I won't tell anybody who hasn't read them who the Ivory King is, or what it is, or what it has to do with. And that's okay, because I didn't know either. 

When I wrote the Ivory King in there, it was actually for the Wonderland Trials a week before my deadline. I still didn't know what the theme was supposed to be. We were traveling because there was a death in the family and so I was like writing from the passenger seat of our car while my husband drove, trying to figure out what was going on. And it came to me because my dad had gotten really sick in 2020 and I remember driving to the hospital and at that time I wasn't allowed to go into the hospital to see him, I just had to drop off stuff basically at the door during that time and the worship song King of My Heart came on, and I just remember crying in the car and just thinking, okay, God, you are in control of the situation, like, comfort me during this. But it wasn't that I didn't really realize that song connected to the Wonderland Trials until that week before deadline, so like six months later.

And that really became a lot, a big part of what the theme of the Wonderland Trials is, is the king. Who is the king? Who is the real ruler of Wonderland? And where is the real, what is the real Wonderland for that matter? I love the verse that talks about unseen things and how we see as in a mirror, but we don't truly know. We're not fully seeing the entirety of what God has for us. And so that's really what I wanted to explore with the Wonderland Trials. 

There's also themes of found family, which is very important to me and very personal to my life. 

And overcoming fear. I tend to be somebody who likes to be comfortable. I don't like to take risks. And sometimes fear can be very crippling and keep us in a place that God doesn't want us to be. And so I wanted to discover that with Alice and discover what does it look like to overcome fear, and step out of your comfort zone, and how does that kind of reflect when God is calling us to something that maybe we're afraid of, or we doubt Him, even though He continually shows His provision and shows Himself. And that theme of fear really gets explored more in the Looking-Glass Illusion, and not just fear. But the theme of surrendering, surrendering everything. This team is trying to find the real Wonderland. And just like I had to rely on the Lord to help me finish these books, even when I didn't know what was going on until the very end, that is something Alice and her team really have to learn is that... they have to rely on something greater than themselves in order to accomplish what they're trying to accomplish. 

And that's all I can really say about that without spoiling things. But I really particularly just love that idea of believing in the unseen, believing in the impossible, because that's really what we do as Christians. We believe in something we cannot see. We believe in something incredibly impossible. If you think about, you know, the virgin birth and Jesus coming to earth, God becoming man, if you are talking, that sounds like a fairy tale, it sounds like a fantasy and yet it really happened. And so I loved exploring the idea of that kind of impossible truth in the Wonderland trials and the Looking Glass illusion.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, so many fantastic things in all of that. 

First of all, I'm sorry for all you went through as you discovered that theme. And that must have been a painful season for you just dealing with your dad being so sick and everything. So I'm sorry for that, but I love how God brought beauty out of the ashes of what was a difficult time, I'm sure, and gave you something to like show you that he's the king of your heart. And to even incorporate the ivory king into your stories, even though I haven't finished it yet so I don't even know exactly who he is. But I love that part of it and how God did that for you. 

Every one of those themes are ones that I love. Found Family in particular is one that I find pops up a lot in my stories. And I find that to be such an important theme. And for me as well, it's a personal one. Because I think family is so much bigger than the people that we were born into, the blood relatives or whatever. It's so much beyond that. And especially as the body of Christ, I think found family is supposed to be something that we all understand in a deeper way because we have been brought together through Jesus to be a family. So I've noticed that in your books. I think that's one of the things that draws me to them because I think I've seen that found family thread in a lot of your stories, and especially in the Wonderland Trials. 

I love the richness and all of those themes and how they layer together really to provide a beautiful picture. And like I said earlier, stories can show us these things. And whether it's a story through a movie or a story in a book, we get to watch it play out in a way that just telling somebody this truth, it might impact them, but if they're not ready to hear it, it can fall flat. But a story, it does sneak behind our defenses and show us these things. And I think when we let God show us the theme specifically, whether it's even as we're reading it or whether... as we're writing it in both of our cases, it can become even more powerful because he's the author of truth and he's the one who delights to show that to us in deeper ways. And thank you for sharing all of that. 

Now to kind of wrap up the part about theme. What is something that you would say to a reader that you would hope that they would take away from these stories? You may have touched on it a little, but if there's just like one thing you would say, you would hope and pray that reader took away.

Sara Ella:

I would hope that they would take away a sense of hope, which is something I always want my readers to take away, that even when I explore dark themes and sadness and grief, I want my readers to come away feeling a sense of being understood, but also feeling a sense of hope if they're in a really dark place. And so Alice goes through some hard things. She deals with finding out some truths about her family members, and she deals with finding out where she comes from, and discovering some other things about some of her friends and who they are and some of the past things that they've done. And overall, it's about her learning to trust others despite when she is hurt. 

And that is something that's very personal to me because of some things I've been through in my life. And it's very difficult, I find, sometimes when you've been hurt to continue to open yourself up to others, to trust others because when you're closing yourself off, it's understandable, right? You've been hurt, you don't wanna be hurt again. You don't want to be left again. You don't want to be abandoned or whatever it is that you're, whatever fear you're facing. 

But that doesn't mean that everybody's going to do that. That doesn't mean that every single person that you come across is going to do that. And yes, people are gonna hurt us. We're all human. But relationships with others and deep relationships and long lasting relationships are so important, whether it be with your spouse, with a family member, a best friend, a parent. 

I hurt people, people hurt me, but that doesn't mean that you can't trust others and show forgiveness and grace and continue to build upon that friendship or that relationship. And I've found that those tough times where trust is broken or hurt does happen between me and myself, somebody else in a relationship, coming through that together and being able to overcome that hurt and forgive one another, it draws you closer. You feel closer to that person afterwards because you've been able to walk through that tough season together. 

And so that's really what I would want readers to come away with is if you're feeling afraid to trust others because you've been hurt in the past, don't be afraid to open yourself up to love. Because we all need to be loved and if you're able to walk through those hard times, it's going to draw you closer to those people and those people are going to be more important than ever the next time something hard happens.

CJ Milacci:

So good. Thank you for sharing that. I needed to hear it too. So that was fantastic. 

All right. Now to wrap things up, can you tell us a little bit about you as an author? So what started you on your writing journey?

How Sara Ella Got Started on Her Writing Journey

Sara Ella:

That would be my mom. My first ever book on Blemished was dedicated to my mom. My mom loved to read. She was always reading something. And she always told me that I should be a writer. So she's the one who really fostered my passion for reading and writing. I was always writing little poems to go in our Christmas cards every year. 

And then when I was in high school, my literature teacher, she really fostered and continued to foster that. And I won writer of the year award two times in a row from that literature teacher. And I think that was really just really encouraging to me to pursue something because I'm not good at math. I don't like science. But to be able to be good at writing was really important to me. 

As I continued on in my life and continued to grow in that, I came across a librarian when I just had one little baby on my lap and there was nothing to do in the small town that I lived in aside from go to the library. And so I started going to the library and asking my librarian, what books do you recommend? And she always said that children's literature and young adult books are better to read than adult books because they always just have the better characters and explore deeper themes. And so she directed me to the middle grade and young adult section. And that's when I started discovering books like The Hunger Games and Divergent and the Fable Haven series. And I could go on and on and on, the Selection series. And that was when I was like, this is what I wanna do. I wanna write stories like these. I wanna write them for teens. I'm gonna have teenagers someday. Now I do have teenagers. I didn't at the time. I have teenagers now. And that was really what made me want to tell stories for teenagers was just from my mom starting it at a young early age and then my librarian directing me to these books that I was just devouring because they are so good. 

And I do love adult fiction too, but what I loved about YA at least... at that time when YA first launched into being super popular was that YA was clean. And I know it's clean reads are so important to you. And that's why you have this podcast. At that time you knew if you went to the YA section, you were getting that really awesome epic story without the adult content. And so I think that's why it's so important now for writers like you and me to be able to continue to put out those kinds of stories that we fell in love with. but without that questionable content like you said.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, I agree. That's where I fell in love with young adult fiction as well. And it was because you could pick up these stories and get lost in the world and not really worry about what was going to happen on the next page because it didn't have the adult content in there. And now that's not the case, sadly. 

But I also think besides the cleanness of those epic stories like the Hunger Games and Divergent, the Selection Series, all of those kind of early young adult starters, so to speak. I think they also have characters that are really raw, and teens tend to feel emotions really deeply and express them a little bit more than we do sometimes as we get older. But yet we all still have those really deep emotions and those times where we want to just kind of express them. And we don't always do it, but in our young adult stories, those teens are expressing them and yet overcoming some of those hardships and difficulties and becoming stronger and better and being shaped through their stories. And I think that's part of why I love young adult literature as well, because it tackles the depth of emotion we can experience and doesn't gloss over it as quickly as we might as adults later in life. 

I'm a big fan of young adult books as well, obviously, as evidenced by my own writing and this podcast. 

When you're not crafting all of your stories and living in fantastical worlds, what do you like to do with your time?

Sara Ella:

I think anybody who follows me on Instagram probably knows the answer to this, but I'll say it anyway and I'll give everybody one, two, three seconds to guess so that they feel like they knew the answer wherever they're listening and that is go to Disneyland.

I love going to Disneyland. I've been a million times. I love to do that. But I also love to go hiking. We love to explore national parks, our family does. I love going to the movies. Surprise, surprise. That's one of my favorite things to do. I do love reading. I actually, one thing that I love to do that maybe not many people know about me is I like to flip furniture. 

I do post about this sometimes, but it's something that I've been learning to do. My dad was a house painter, and so I do love to paint things. I'm not like an intricate paint artist, but I like to paint things and that is something that I found I love to do. I love to flip furniture and have fun with kind of like with writing, discovering what the piece could be. I never really know and so it takes me a long time to flip a piece because sometimes I try multiple techniques with a piece of furniture and I'm like yeah that doesn't work I'm gonna paint over that now. And it takes a few different tries, but it's a unique piece and I really love to do that. 

And I wanted to add too, like I do live in Arizona and my family lives not too far off and thank you for what you said about my dad. Happy ending is my dad is okay.

CJ Milacci:

Oh good.

Sara Ella:

And so I wanted to share that for anybody who felt like they were left on a cliffhanger. My dad is okay and he's doing well and he lives about 45 minutes away from me and so we like to get together with him and the rest of my extended family as well for holidays. 

I love Christmas as mentioned in my bio. Already counting down the days. I love pumpkin spice season because it's the anticipation of Christmas. So I'm counting down the days until holiday drinks release in November. And other than that, I love to go to coffee shops. I like to try different coffee shops and I always will ask the barista, do you have any specialty drinks that are unique to your coffee shop? And they get bonus points if the drink has a themed name. So if it's like there's a coffee shop in California where I go with my friend Ashley, they have a latte called the Dirty Harry Latte, which is a butter beer latte.

CJ Milacci:

Oh, that's perfect. Gotta love a good butter beer.

Sara Ella:

Yes, so that's one of my other favorite pastimes is going to different coffee shops and trying their different drinks.

CJ Milacci:

So those are a lot of different things, but I love it. And I always think authors who have all these different kinds of avenues they explore in creating, like you do with flipping furniture, or just in enjoying different types of things in life, I think that makes our story worlds richer because we take those experiences in our life and they end up, whether we mean to or not, bleeding into our stories and being a part of them as well. So having all these different outlets, I think helps us become better writers at the end of the day. 

And I think you see that so much in your books because your worlds are so rich, your characters are so deep and your story worlds are fantastic. So thank you, Sara Ella, so much for being with us. We are running out of time for today. Unfortunately. I feel like I could keep chatting with you all day long, but thank you for being on Read Clean YA with CJ. It was so wonderful to have you.

Sara Ella:

Thank you, C.J. I feel the same way. I love chatting with you and thank you so much for this opportunity and for having me on your podcast.

Where can you find the Curious Realities Duology and connect with Sara Ella?

CJ Milacci:

As we wrap things up for today, can you tell readers where they can find you and your books?

Sara Ella:

Yes, absolutely. Well, they can go to my website, SaraElla.com, and all my books are listed there with links to be able to purchase from your favorite bookstores. And you can order from your favorite retailer. Of course, you can order them on Amazon, but I always like to just say, support your local bookstore. So you can walk into your local bookstore and request my books. 

If you would like to, my local bookstore is Changing Hands Bookstore, and you can order signed copies of any of my books. from Changing Hands Bookstore, just be sure that you include the request in your order comments that it be signed and or personalized because I do then go into my local bookstore and then I sign those special orders. 

So just be sure to include that request. I've had people say, oh well, I ordered from Changing Hands and it wasn't signed and I always just try to send the reminder, you have to request it in the order comments. And I'm happy to sign those copies so that my readers can have a chance to have a signed copy if they want one.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, because signed copies are so much fun to have on the bookshelf, so highly recommend that option for sure. Well, thank you so much. 

Wrapping things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Sara Ella. I loved getting to talk with her and hear her heart behind her stories. The Curious Realities duology is an adventure, with puzzles and twists and turns and found family, like we talked about. And I throughly enjoyed this duology. I know you will too. Sara has a way of drawing you into her stories and making you route for the characters while desperately turning the pages to see what will happen next.

Book two in the duology, The Looking-Glass Illusion it just released yesterday at the time this episode airs, so now both books are available wherever books are sold. So be sure to check it out — I’ll have links in the show notes as well as links to the other things we discussed today.

Don’t Forget The September Goodies Giveaway!

Sara Ella has also graciously agreed to include a copy of The Looking-Glass Illusion in this month’s giveaway, so don’t forget to check out the September Giveaway for Read Clean YA with CJ and find her book along with some other great Young Adult books.

You can find the episode show notes at readcleanya.com.

Coming Next Week

Next week I’ll be talking with YA author Bradley Caffee, author of Sides, and I can’t wait to share that interview with you, so don’t forget to tune in.

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. I’m excited to be on this journey with you. 

Links to Things Discussed in this Episode

Purchase The Eternity Gate: https://www.amazon.com/Eternity-Gate-Threshold-Duology/dp/B0BX2N3W2M/ 

Katherine Briggs Website: www.katherinebriggs.com

Katherine Briggs Instagram: @katherinebriggs_author

One Year Adventure Novel Program with Daniel Schwabauer: https://clearwaterpress.com/oneyearnovel/ 

September Goodies Giveaway: https://kingsumo.com/g/ftix57/september-goodies-giveaway

Full Episode Transcript

Introduction

CJ Milacci:

Welcome, my friend. You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ, the podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories — without the objectionable content. I'm your host, award-winning young adult author CJ Milacci, and in this episode, we are going to dive into an author interview with my good friend and fellow young adult author, Katherine Briggs. 

Award-winning author Katherine Briggs crafted her first monster at age 3. Since graduating from crayons to laptop, she continues to devour and weave fantasy tales while enjoying oolong or chai tea. She, her co-adventurer husband and rescue dog, reside outside Houston where she classically educates amazing students and studies her second language. Katie or Katherine, welcome to the show!

Katherine Briggs:

Thank you so much, CJ. I'm so excited to be here.

CJ Milacci:

I am so excited to have you and I am going to jump back and forth between calling you Katherine and Katie because we are friends. So I know her as Katie, but her author name is Katherine. So I hope that's not confusing to listeners, but I'll give you that little caveat at the beginning here. And today we are going to be talking about Katie's debut novel, The Eternity Gate. which is so incredible. I loved this story. It's an amazing, exciting adventure. I can't wait to talk about it. And before I go on and on, Katie, can you tell us what the story is about?

Diving Deeper into the Fantasy YA Novel: The Eternity Gate

Katherine Briggs:

Absolutely, and I'm so honored that you enjoyed the Eternity Gate, by the way, because I have so enjoyed Recruit of Talionis and Fugitive of Talionis, so I'm just beyond honored. The Eternity Gate is a story where kings and monsters battle over ancient treasure locked behind a very, very old doorway, and Seyo, handmaiden to the princess, possesses the gate's stolen key.

CJ Milacci:

I love it. It is so much fun. So this book is a rich world and the characters feel like they become your friends because your characters are so beautifully created and it's an adventure like from page one you kind of just get thrust into this new world that feels like one you can just never leave because it's so exciting and so well crafted and then you just get pulled along and one thing after another happens. 

It's fantastic. 

It's such a great story. And I really encourage listeners to check it out. We're gonna talk more about it, but I do have to give the shout out that this book just released yesterday. So it is fresh on the shelves, ready for you to read. It is so good. So can you please tell us a little bit about how the idea for this story came about?

Katherine Briggs:

Absolutely. I... it's very glamorous.

I had an idea about a princess and a monster about seven years ago and that story just morphed. I mean writers, we know how this goes. It starts off as one thing and then it morphs into a different story and a different story and a different story and I remember when the protagonist Seyo first popped into my mind. I had this specific image of her serving the princess and I thought this is so interesting. I can see her so clearly. How does she fit into the story? 

She absolutely took over the story and it became what it is today.

CJ Milacci:

Wow, that's so neat. I had no idea that Seyo wasn't originally the protagonist of the story because she is the heart behind the whole thing. It's amazing. 

Great, so what books are similar to yours? Just so that readers can kind of get an idea of if they enjoyed this story, they might enjoy your story.

Katherine Briggs:

Oh my goodness, that's such a good question. I personally, it's a world that I created, I say on my own. Obviously, I think our world, Earth, inspires us so much. It's so beautiful, it's so rich, and I would feel rather prideful if I said, I created this world on my own. How about I say, I put this world together on my own.

CJ Milacci:

I love it.

Katherine Briggs:

Other worlds that are also somewhat created from scratch I think people would relate to, I'm thinking of books like Gillian Bronte Adams' book, Of Fire and Ash is set in its own world. I have had readers tell me that it reminds them of Dune, which I was extremely honored by that. I recently had a reviewer tell me it reminded her of Brandon Sanderson's Way of Kings. So I think if you enjoy large stakes and large worlds, you might enjoy this book.

CJ Milacci:

Definitely, you will definitely enjoy this book. It's so much fun. Speaking of worlds, then we go even deeper into the characters. So I think one of the things you did so well in this story is breathe life into the characters. There's monsters, there's these things called shadows that are creepy. There's all these different elements throughout the story, which speaks to you creating your own world. And... All of these different characters can kind of do different things. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Katherine Briggs:

Absolutely. And I love that you described the shadows as creepy.

I'm pretty tame in what I watch. I don't watch a lot of horror or anything like that. In fact, zero. So I'm amazed that the shadows came out as creepy as they did. And they were so interesting for me working on them. They were hard. Creating monsters is so much fun. 

CJ Milacci:

Can you tell us a little bit about the different characters in your world — so you have the shadows or who are these creepy beings and then you have these different people groups that kind of have different powers, I guess. So can you tell us like a little bit about that too?

Katherine Briggs:

The quote magic system of the book is based around being able to wield different elements. So the main character, Seyo, is from a country where you're supposed to be able to hold light in your hands, but instead she's inherited a different gifting due to her mixed heritage. She has inherited an ability to wield fire and not even in a way that's common or normal. So to her, that's like being cursed. This is something that she's trying very desperately to hide and trying to cover up by being perfect. 

All the characters in some way or another are gifted in that sort of elemental magic system. Or I don't really call it a magic system. I call it a gifting system.

And then, oh goodness, there are about five different nations and then there are the shadow monsters. Which are... creatures, or really they're humans kind of if you think Gollum how his mistakes reshaped him into something else and something dark and honestly really sad the shadows are similar they've traded a piece of themselves or they've been forced to trade a piece of themselves for this new form that's very powerful and there's a great cost to that as well.

CJ Milacci:

Wow, I love that description and it as I'm listening to you talk about it I'm seeing the story in my mind's eye and realizing like oh wow, that's exactly true. That's such a succinct way to put it and they are very Gollum-esk in my mind too, in what they look like in some ways. Their faces at least. I'm not sure if they should look like Gollum, but in my mind they look like Gollum.

Katherine Briggs:

I refuse to ever, I do have a sketch, but I'm never going to show anybody what they look like because people, readers have already come up to me and said, Oh, it looks like this. It looks like this. And I don't want to ruin that. I want people to be able to form that image in their own mind. And someone on my marketing team forbid me from ever commissioning any character art for these monsters because they're just scary. We wouldn't maybe want to actually see it.

CJ Milacci:

Right, right, oh yes, so good. So moving on from the creepy shadows, because they are creepy, what, do you have like a favorite character in your story?

Katherine Briggs:

Oh my goodness, I love them all so much. I love Seyo, I love her misplaced battle to be perfect. I can relate with that as an artist. I really love her friend and love interest, the second born prince Jorai. how he's trying so hard to find his place in the world and he's trying really hard to break free from the judgments people have placed on him. I love the fierce Princess Kiburou that Seyo serves. And then I really love Gerrus who shows up a little bit later in the book at about the quarter mark. He has been with this story from the very beginning. He has a very interesting background that I won't spoil here. He has overcome a lot and is overcoming a lot. And his friendship with Seyo, a very unlikely friendship, was one of the most challenging and most rewarding parts of the book to write.

CJ Milacci:

Okay. I was waiting for you to say his name because he was one of my favorite characters through the story as well. He is special. I feel like he's a really special one and I love the friendship that gets birthed there because it is so unlikely, and I can imagine how difficult that was to write, but it's so powerful at the same time. 

Are there any fun elements of your story that some people might pick up on but others maybe would miss?

Behind the Scenes Secret Reveal!

Katherine Briggs:

There are, there's one. Can I tell you a secret?

CJ Milacci:

Yes, tell us.

Katherine Briggs:

Okay, when I was crafting the world for this book, I was visiting South Korea at the time, and one of my best friends was born in South Korea, and we were roommates in our 20s, and she is just so proud of her beautiful country, and she should be, it's gorgeous. And I asked her, would you help me think of some interesting little... tidbits I could put in the book. Just a little bit just because your country is so beautiful and you're my friend and I think that would be fun. And she said yes, I never tell anybody this so now you all know but It's been interesting. 

There's one group of readers Who have privately reached out to me over even before the book has launched early readers have reached out to say, “Is there a South Korean flavor to this book?” And there's one thing that binds all these readers together is they watch Korean dramas or K-dramas. And I was fascinated that they were able to pick that up. I was excited.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, that is so neat. And honestly, I'm going to be real here. I did not pick this up. So I also don't watch K dramas. But I'm curious now about what the draw is. That is so fascinating. 

Diving Deeper: What can a fantasy world teach us about perfectionism, self-worth, and the weight of our choices?

On your website, you have a little note and this is actually to writers but I loved the quote. So I'm bringing it on to here for readers as well because I think it is part of why we love fantasy and science fiction. 

And you say that, “Fantasy and science fiction can mirror reality and help us see life with greater clarity. And as many have said before, we face dragons too, even if they don't wear scales or breathe fire. And it's fun to ask what if.” 

So I love that because I agree that they can mirror reality and help us see life with greater clarity. And one of the things you've kind of already touched on is some of the deeper themes in your book. And I would love to just talk a little bit more about that. And what your heart is behind kind of weaving these themes into your story.

Katherine Briggs:

Yes, well as we talked about earlier, perfectionism, I think it being an artist is really common to feel like we need to make everything perfect to feel that pressure and Seyo definitely feels that pressure to be perfect to hide her flaws and to make herself perfect by her service to the princess and their mutual service to the temple. And a theme I didn't even mean for this to show showed up on its own which was exciting, but the theme of self-worth and Seyo, especially Seyo and Gerrus, Jorai. I think exploring What is self-worth? Is it something that you? Gain or earn for yourself is it something that something or someone else bestows upon you and Who can do that?

At this point, I don't really want to answer that question, and I didn't in the book, but from my own limited life experiences and from watching others and from reading, I know you're the same way with your books. It's so fun to explore these questions that are really hard and see what the characters do, how they react in a way that is honest to these questions and how can we learn from that and are they thinking honestly as they explore these own these topics.

CJ Milacci:

Yeah. And it's so interesting because you do explore that topic. But like in our lives, right, each person, each character explores it differently. 

Each of them though, they're very different and each of them have their own unique struggles and their own need to discover what that looks like for them. And it's a similar path, but yet different, which I think is so true of us in our lives, right? Like we all have to explore these different things like self-worth or perfectionism or even like how our choices can twist and define us in dark ways, like with the shadows, like you mentioned earlier. And these are universal things as humans that we go through, but yet each of our journeys look a little different even when our paths cross. And our paths as they cross can help each other learn those things as we're learning them too. So you know, I love that each of them is learning kind of the same truth, even though they're so different, you know, because that's how it is. No matter how different we are, we all need to learn what these things look like in our own lives.

Katherine Briggs:

Exactly, we're all so important and we all can do, our actions really do matter. They really do affect those around us for hopefully the better.

CJ Milacci:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And yet we can make choices that affect people negatively too. And I think that's one of the cool things about stories is that we can see that play out before us which goes back to that quote where how science fiction and fantasy can mirror reality because we can watch that play out and then be like, oh yeah, that like that negative choice that person made is definitely having an impact or that guy's selfishness is totally gonna. mess everything up for everyone else, you know? And we can watch it kind of from a step back a little bit and watch it play out, but then that truth settles in us because it is a truth and truth does something in our hearts and in our minds as we look at it and focus on it. And then we can realize like, oh, my choices and my actions, they are going to impact the other people around me too, just like this character's did to this other character.

Katherine Briggs:

It's like living vicariously, in hopefully a non-weird way, through somebody else. But I think like, like your books, your characters are so good. And I read them and I think, oh, my gosh, I've met this person. And I can watch other characters interact with them and think, oh, you know, what I want to do that, what I not want to do that. Or you have a character named Cade who I want to be more like that. And that's the best. I love characters like that inspire me to love others even more greatly.

CJ Milacci:

Yeah, oh, thank you so much. I love Cade too. He's one of my favorites, not gonna lie.

Katherine Briggs:

He can be your Geras.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, yes, exactly. When we think about these themes and stuff, I think there are things that are in our own lives that kind of are the reasons the themes come out in our stories. And you mentioned that the perfection theme with being an artist and being something you struggle with, is that a theme that you intentionally put in your story or did you kind of discover it as you were writing that Seyo had some of those things that maybe you struggled with in your past or even presently?

Katherine Briggs:

That's a great question. For me, may be different for you, but for me, when I try to put a theme in the story, I just, it always falls a little flat. So I don't even try to. And then I see what comes up as the characters are being, well, as I'm helping them be true to themselves. So those themes popped up on their own and are they rooted in my life? Oh, absolutely. But I also think I think that we all as humans share so much more in common than we think we do. Like, I don't I think we're all unique. We're all really important. But these feelings, we share them, too. I think everybody, at least at one point in their life, struggles with self-worth, and I think a lot of people in different ways struggle with how do I, what is perfectionism? It's being good enough, and our standards for that are different case by case, and we need to grow in that as well. So I also think of it as just a really common theme too.

Who is Katherine Briggs?

CJ Milacci:

Yeah. So good. So now we're gonna change things up a little bit and talk a little more about you and why did you become an author? What started you on your writing journey?

Katherine Briggs:

CJ, I have no idea. My parents gave me little notebooks, well they weren't that little, spiral notebooks, and they gave me crayons, and I sat down, and I drew little creatures in little worlds. When I was three years old, I still have them. I have no idea where that came from. I think my aunt wrote a little bit for fun, so maybe it's in my genes, I have no idea. But then they were monsters. I really did.

My first character that I ever drew, maybe besides like a dog or some kind of tiger, was a monster. He was a blue monster and he had three eyes and he was like a little stick and he was a blue eyed monster because I'm very creative with names and titles.

CJ Milacci:

I love it. Well, three year olds, hey, that's, that's as creative as get. My teddy bear was named Teddy. So, you know, this is what we get when we're that little.

Katherine Briggs:

I don't think it's a bad thing. I think that shows intelligence. It's with Shakespeare. If you look at his titles, they're very literal. And I thought, oh, so maybe we were just being very mature with Teddy and the blue-eyed monster, three-eyed blue monster.

CJ Milacci:

I love it. Oh, I love it. Wow. So you were like a baby when you started on this journey. And then I guess as you got older, did you did you just fall in love with stories and that love of writing and crafting them?

Katherine Briggs:

Oh yes, oh yes, the writing continued. I'm trying to think, I think I wrote my first novel with the One Year Adventure Novel program by Daniel Schwabauer when I was probably 15, my first completed novel. And it wasn't, it probably would be more novella length, but that's great. And I just couldn't ever stop. There were times in my life when I took breaks, you know, a couple years to maybe work on short stories or something else, but I don't know, I just…I find it, it just brings me a lot of joy. I really enjoy writing.

CJ Milacci:

I love it and you are an incredible writer so I hope you never stop. Keep up these stories.

Katherine Briggs:

I hope you never stop either. I bestow this compliment upon you as well.

CJ Milacci:

Oh thank you. See everyone can see now why you are such an awesome friend to have around. Katie is the most encouraging person you will ever meet. She's wonderful.

Katherine Briggs:

And I never lie. I really mean that.

CJ Milacci:

She really is wonderful. So when you're not crafting epic stories, what else do you like to do?

Katherine Briggs:

Mmm, I made my first from scratch masala chai tea like two weeks ago, I think.

CJ Milacci:

That sounds amazing.

Katherine Briggs:

I was really inspired. I have a friend from India who made some, and she told me what to do and where to search for recipes. And so I had my spices, I'm grinding them in my mortar and pestle, and I'm heating up my milk. It was really, really fun. That's kind of a new thing though. I also have some plants

CJ Milacci:

Yes, beautiful.

Katherine Briggs:

that I try to keep alive, and I love them. I love my pothos so much, and I love reading. I am also a teacher, and in the last couple of years have really enjoy learning more about language acquisition. Personally, trying to learn my, or working faithfully on learning my second language and then also becoming a volunteer ESL, English as a second language, teacher.

CJ Milacci:

And another fun fact about Katie that I'm just throwing in here is that she and I bonded because we both love rap music. One day we just might come up with our own that we will share with all of our friends, but.

Katherine Briggs:

We might even have one in the works and it'll be amazing.

CJ Milacci:

Yes, we just might.

Katherine Briggs:

I think we need like dance moves to go with it too.

CJ Milacci:

Oh, probably.

Katherine Briggs:

I think this just needs to be of epic proportions. I'm so excited.

CJ Milacci:

Katie has so many different parts of her personality. And I think that's why your stories are so rich and full because you are such a multifaceted person and you bring that life into your stories. And I am not exaggerating when I say this is one of my favorite books that I have read this year. The Eternity Gate is so good and I highly recommend you go pick it up especially because it is now available. So Katie can you tell us where readers can find you and your books and all of the things?

Where Can You Get The Eternity Gate and Connect with Katherine Briggs?

Katherine Briggs:

Absolutely, and thank you so much. I'm so honored by that. I'm just so grateful that you enjoyed it, and I'm just grateful to be here, and I'm just very thankful. 

You may order The Eternity Gate pretty much wherever you want. Any major retailer will have it. And on my website you can sign up for my email newsletter It's www.katherinebriggs.com. I'm also active on Instagram. My handle is @katherinebriggs_author and I love meeting new people. It's fun.

CJ Milacci:

Yay. So I will have links to all of those things in the show notes. So it's a nice easy jump for people to go find your book and find you and all those things. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we close things up for today?

Katherine Briggs:

Thank you so much for having me and I'm just so excited that there's this community of people who love YA. I love YA too. It's so unique in what it offers, the coming of age story and we think that's just tied to one stage of life. But I really think life is a continuing finding ourselves and hopefully growing and hopefully growing in a way that helps us live really peacefully and to love our neighbors. And I love that this community is excited about clean YA. Honest, right, we don't wanna gloss over things, but honest, but clean YA, and seeking what is good, true, and beautiful in the world. I'm just very glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

CJ Milacci:

Oh, wonderful. Well, Katherine Briggs, thank you so much for being on Read Clean YA with CJ. It was marvelous to have you. I loved getting to have this conversation.

Katherine Briggs:

Thank you.

Wrapping Things Up

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Katherine Briggs, author of The Eternity Gate. I loved getting to talk with her and share this fantastic story with you. And I meant it when I said this was one of my favorite books this year. Katie has such a beautiful way of writing, and I know you are going to fall in love with these characters and get swept away in the adventure. 

This book is available wherever books are sold, and it just released yesterday at the time this episode airs, so be sure to check it out. And you can find the links to everything we discussed today at the top of this article.

Note for Sensitive Readers

This book does have life and death stakes and some scary elements, like the shadows we mentioned earlier, but it’s not gory. So unless you have a very sensitive reader, I think this book should be safe for any reader of young adult fiction.

Don’t Forget The September Goodies Giveaway!

Katherine Briggs has also graciously agreed to include a copy of The Eternity Gate in this month’s giveaway. So don’t forget to check out the link to the September Giveaway for Read Clean YA with CJ and find her book along with some other fantastic young adult books.

Here’s the link: https://kingsumo.com/g/ftix57/september-goodies-giveaway

Coming Next Week

Next week, I’ll be talking with Sara Ella, author of the Wonderland Trials and the new upcoming release, The Looking-Glass Illusion, as well as several other fantastic young adult books, and I am so excited to share that interview with all of you, so don’t forget to tune in.

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. I’m excited to be on this journey with you. 

Join CJ Milacci in a solo episode to kick off this new podcast as she talks about the power of stories, why she writes, and shares a little about her series.

Links to things discussed in this episode:

Read Clean YA with CJ 

Purchase Recruit of Talionis 

Purchase a signed copy of Recruit of Talionis 

Pre-Order Fugitive of Talionis (ebook) 

Pre-Order signed copy of Fugitive of Talionis 

CJ’s Website 

This month’s giveaway 

Episode Transcript:

Why do we love stories? And can they help us find hope, even in a world that’s falling apart?

We will explore these questions and more in today’s episode!

Welcome my friend! You are listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. The podcast for teens and young adults who want to explore exciting worlds, deep themes, and epic stories— without the objectionable content. I’m your host, award-winning young adult author, CJ Milacci, and today will be a solo episode to kick off this new podcast. 

Don't you just love a book that draws you in, captures your imagination, and then shocks you by taking a turn you didn't expect?

I know I do. Getting lost in a story is one of my favorite ways to spend any free time I have. And I love stories with high, life and death stakes. The kind of story that brings you to the edge of your proverbial seat, and holds you there as you will it to come to a good ending, desperately rooting for the hero, even as he or she faces astronomical odds. And, I don't know about you, but when I see the protagonist stand up against evil, fight in the face of injustice, or take action when others refuse to do anything, it not only makes me love the character more. It inspires me.

There is a quote by C.S. Lewis that says, “We read to know that we are not alone.”

And I love that quote.

Because stories are wonderful for so many reasons. They can be a blissful escape from the stresses of life. A way to explore a world you could never actually visit in person. They can be entertaining, exciting, or action-packed. Sometimes, through a story, you can dig into a deep theme or get to the root of an issue in order to better understand it.

Stories can help us find answers to questions we didn’t even know how to ask, or help give us a chance to grieve over pain we couldn’t find words to express. Stories can teach us, give us insight into our lives and the world around us, and move us to laugh or cry.

And sometimes, like this quote from C.S. Lewis, a story can remind us that we are not alone. We’re not the only one who has experienced those emotions or fears or anxieties or, even, joys.

Stories…they’re powerful.

They can ignite the imagination. Shed light in dark places. And one of my favorite things about stories is they can reveal truth in epically powerful ways. Ways that can transform your life and stay with you forever. 

Stories can entertain us, transport us to other worlds…and give us an escape from the difficult things we are facing in our lives. 

And great stories. Great stories don’t just help you escape for a time. They teach you something, reveal a deeper truth, and give you something to take back with you into your life.

And all of this is the reason I’m passionate about writing great stories — and it’s also why I am so excited for this podcast. Each week, I’ll be sitting down with a different author, talking about his or her book, and diving into the deeper themes woven through the pages. I’ve already recorded several of these interviews, and I am so excited to share them with YOU and introduce you to these incredible authors and the new adventures you’ll discover within the pages of their books.

But today, I want to tell you a little more about me, my stories, and the reason I started writing since you’re going to be hanging out with me hopefully every week as we drop new episodes.

First, I just want to pause and weave a tale for you.

Imagine one day you’re with your family in your home. Everything is normal, status quo. What you’ve known your whole life And you go to sleep. 

But when you wake up you’re not there — you’re in a forest surrounded by tons of teens and a military force. You have no idea how you got there, no clue what’s going on. And no idea if your family is even okay. 

You try to run, but the soldiers stop you. They put you on a transport and brought to a new city you’ve never even heard of before, and these are the words you’re told:

“Forget where you came from. Forget the life you knew. You are now recruits of Talionis!”

How do you survive? Escape is impossible, but can you remain in a place like this without succumbing to the evil? Is it possible to find hope there?

This is the circumstance my protagonist finds herself in. Her world turned completely upside down. 

In Recruit of Talionis, you follow Bria as she battles the evil of the city of Talionis and the darkness and guilt of her own past.

And I wrote this story for you. As a way to demonstrate that no matter how dark things get, or how broken and shattered life can become, there is still hope. 

Now you may be like, “CJ, there’s little to no chance I’m going to be kidnapped and forced to become a military recruit in a dystopian type city.”

And you’re right. 

But how many times have you heard someone say something like, “The world is falling apart. Things are worse now than ever before,”? 

Spoiler alert — they aren’t totally wrong. The world is crazy. It’s broken and full of evil people. This guy is ready to set off a nuclear bomb, that guy — who’s totally corrupt — is getting more power. Things are insane. 

But it can be so hard as a teen or young adult to hear that, even look at the world and see that your parents and youth pastor or whoever else is saying this right. Right now, you’re trying to figure out who you’ll be, what you’ll do. You want to dream, imagine, take hold of who God made you to be and experience everything He has for you. And somehow come up with an answer to the dreaded question “What do you want to be when you grow up.”

If feels easier to just pretend none of the craziness of the world matters, right? I mean, we can always imagine the world imploding, maybe even get freaked out a bit. But often we’re good at holding it at a distance, feeling like “well that’s terrible but BLANK could never happen to me.”

And then it does. 

Look, I hope you’re never kidnapped and forced to become a soldier. But all of our worlds will crumble at some point. 

You lose the person who was so close to you. You’re accused of something you didn’t do. Your life is upended. Torn apart. 

A loved one dies. 

Parents get divorced. 

Someone does something to you they had no right to do. 

Your house gets taken. 

The family where you were supposed to be unconditionally loved only shows you conditional love.

The brokenness of the world breaks into your life. 

How do you breathe there? How do you move on? How do you find the courage to get up and enter another day? In this lowest of places, can there be hope?

Yes. There can be hope. 

One of the things I love to say is that “Hope pierces the darkness.” I believe this is true. That hope, real hope, can break through even the darkest most shattered place you find yourself in. 

But when I say hope, I mean more than a wish — like “I hope the Eagles win the Super Bowl.” I’m from Philadelphia, and this is always a “hope” we have around here. But I’m a Christian, so when I say hope, I say that my hope comes from Jesus. 

He said that in this world you will have trouble. So all of these things that we just talked about, all the terrible things you might be experiencing right now in your life, all that you will experience as you grow and walk along this journey — it’s the sad reality of the broken and sinful world we live in. 

But thankfully, Jesus didn’t stop His statement there. He continued and said, “But take heart! I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)

In the darkest, most shattered places of our lives, where all we find is ashes, a light can shine there. The Light of the world. Jesus. 

He essentially says in this verse in John 16, “Have hope, because everything that is overwhelming you, all that is overcoming you, I already beat it. I overcame it.”

My heart, my passion, is to see teens and young adults — really people of all ages — cling to the hope found in Jesus and experience the power of that hope in their everyday lives. Because the hope we find in Him is eternal — it’s bigger than our circumstances, bigger than the craziness in the world, and it can break every chain and change any life that chooses to rest in it. 

Over the years I’ve sat across from countless teens and young adults who have told me about their own lives, heartaches, things they’d done that they were ashamed of…and things that had been done to them that left scars. And, no matter what the circumstance or struggle, I have witnessed the power of Jesus Christ to change and transform lives and set free captives. 

In my own life, I have experienced how Jesus comforts me when I’ve lost relationships and friendships. When I’ve been rejected, scorned, and misjudged. I have found hope when everything around me screams to just give up. In the darkest places of depression, when I despised of life itself, Jesus met me, lifted me up out of the miry clay, and He set my feet upon the Rock. 

I know He can do the same for you. 

And that’s why I wrote Recruit of Talionis. Because my hope and prayer is that this story can demonstrate the reality that hope can pierce the darkness in a way that me merely telling you that truth may not have.

Sometimes we know things in our heads, we hear them all the time, but a story kind of gets beyond our logic and our reasoning and our roadblocks and walls. And it demonstrates the power of that truth and reality as we walk through its pages alongside characters we grow to love. 

Which is why I love stories.

Recruit of Talionis is a dystopian book that has life and death stakes, action and adventure, and I think you’ll love it if this is your type of story. People call it a page=-turner, say they’ve been up all night reading it, and I love to hear that. But what I love to hear even more is that the characters were relatable, that they resonated with what the protagonist was going through. Or they want to be more like Cade, who’s one of the characters in the story. That’s what makes me so excited, because it means that this story is getting into people’s hearts and minds and getting them excited to keep reading, but even more, maybe showing them a glimpse of something bigger. Something eternal.

And that’s why I write.

And that’s why I can’t wait to talk about other great stories. Because stories, they have so much power. They have so much ability to touch our lives and change our lives. And I’m excited because as we go through this podcast together, you’ll get to hear from other authors who are passionate about story. Some of their books might come out with very clear Christian influences. Others, maybe you won’t see them right away, but they’re woven deeper into the pages of the story.

Every book has a theme, has something bigger that the characters go through. Because the reality is the stories that most resonate with our lives, they’re the ones with characters who go through things. They’re the ones with characters who experience hardship and loss and conflict and struggle. No one wants to read a book about a character who never went through anything, or kind of has a perfect life and goes along his or her way with nothing bad happening. We don’t feel like that’s relatable, so we put it down.

No one wants that kind of a book. 

And those aren’t the kind of books we’re going to talk about here. We’re going to talk about books with characters who have struggles. We’re going to talk about books with characters who go through difficult things, who have things in their history that are painful and hard and raw, because that’s what relates to our lives. That’s what touches our hearts. That’s what gives us something to think about long after we close the pages of that book.

The authors I talk to, y’all, they are so cool. They’re wonderful men and women. And I can’t wait to unpack all of these episodes with you.

As I mentioned in the pilot episode, I’m doing this podcast because I want a resource that highlights great clean fiction. Fiction you can get lost in without worrying about what you might find in the pages, about being surprised by a ton of language or an inappropriate scene that comes up, or things that just aren’t form a biblical worldview. And I’m excited because there are a lot more of these great stories than people realize. And I have some incredible friends — old friends and new friends that I’m making though just talking with them on this podcast. And I can’t wait for you to get to talk about these stories with us, and discover, perhaps, your newest favorite author and a new book that you can’t wait to share with your friends and family and whoever is in your life. 

And I think one of the things that I really love about each of these authors is that they’re willing to get real and address hard issues, whether it’s how to find hope in darkness or depression and how to get out of that. Or if it’s the deeper themes of identity and who am I and how do I find my place in this world? And more. These are things that we all struggle with, things that every person longs to understand, and stories can help us do that. 

So I’m excited to dive into this new podcast with you. I hope you’re excited as well. If you have a book that you love and you’d like to hear an interview with that author highlighted, I invite you to email me and let me know. I’m always looking for new guests, and I can’t wait to hear what your favorite episodes are as we journey together through this new adventure. Because this is gonna be an adventure, my friend, and I can’t wait to do it with you.

We all need hope in this world. We all need stories that can give us a moment to escape and entertain us, but also teach us in a deep way without feeling like we’re getting beat over the head with it. So these stories do that, and I can’t wait to talk about them with you.

As we kick off the new podcast, don’t forget there is also going to be a giveaway each month. So this month we will have a giveaway with the different authors who I’ll be interviewing in September. You can go to ReadCleanYA.com and find all the details for that giveaway there. 

Coming up this month, we have some great interviews with authors like Sara Ella and Katherine Briggs and Bradley Caffee and I am so excited for you guys to sit down with us and listen in as we discuss deep themes, incredible stories, and epic adventures. 

Thank you so much for listening to Read Clean YA with CJ. I am excited to have you here with me.