On this episode of the Real Perspectives Podcast, Chris Freise gives a rare up-and-down-the-coast view of commercial real estate as someone who invests, operates, and develops across all three major West Coast metros.

The conversation digs into Redco's contrarian office thesis — buying San Francisco office with debt when nearly everyone else was forced to pay all cash — and how the AI leasing recovery arrived faster than Chris expected. He talks through the 400,000-square-foot Wells Fargo building on California Street, why 28,000-square-foot floor plates are a decisive advantage, and how the market has shifted from small tenants to a hunt for 100,000-to-400,000-square-foot users. On culture, Chris argues the amenities war still comes down to food and hospitality more than saunas and cold plunges, using Redco's 28 Utah project as an example.

The group then works through the regional picture: San Francisco's surprising retail rebound (Antitown Coffee coming to 300 California), Seattle trailing the cycle by 12 to 24 months with Anthropic's lease as a first real AI flag, and Southern California's distress in land and office alongside the hard-to-crack Inland Empire industrial market. A central thread is power as the new currency — how tenants over-ask for amperage they often don't use, PG&E's surcharge risk, the Hayward building Redco delivered with New York Life, and the strange case of a 12-megawatt substation for sale on just 20,000 square feet.

On capital, Chris explains why institutional money is piling into the two "food groups" — industrial (increasingly advanced manufacturing) and multifamily — compressing cap rates, pushing land prices up 20 to 25 percent, and reshaping the math on ground-up development. Rob and Chris also trade notes on design and placemaking, from the Hayward R&D building to why Seattle's design-review culture produces better architecture. The episode closes on Harrington's Bar and Grill at 245 Front Street — a 1935 immigrant-founded pub Redco saved from becoming something else, now posting record sales as a living symbol of San Francisco's downtown recovery.

• (00:00) Intro and welcome
• (00:53) The Redco story: two brothers, three metros, and the "Robert Edward Daniels" name
• (04:26) The office thesis — buying with debt when everyone else paid cash
• (05:02) The AI recovery and the 400K-sf Wells Fargo building
• (07:16) How deep is demand for 200K–400K-sf blocks?
• (10:22) Building culture in AI offices: why food still wins
• (12:29) Downtown and retail recovery; Antitown Coffee at 300 California
• (14:19) Seattle and SoCal: why local politics drives the investment climate
• (17:10) The housing-supply debate and Seattle's overbuild
• (19:54) What needs to change to unlock Bay Area housing starts
• (20:39) Palo Alto's fish-market site and a 400-unit outlier
• (22:53) Southern California: distressed office, land, and the Inland Empire
• (28:40) Power as a make-or-break issue for tenants
• (32:22) PG&E, surcharges, and power as benefit and risk
• (36:04) Where the money wants to go: industrial and multifamily
• (40:20) Sunnyvale, UPS, and land prices climbing 20–25%
• (46:00) Design, placemaking, and the Hayward R&D building
• (52:59) Harrington's Bar and Grill: a 1935 pub as a recovery barometer
• (58:29) Closing thoughts

Vladimir Bosanac, co-founder and publisher of The Registry, welcomes back David Arscott of Baycrest Capital for another wide-ranging look at the forces shaping commercial real estate.

They open on a striking headline: second-quarter construction deliveries have fallen to their lowest level since 2011 — fifteen years ago — as rising costs, softening valuations, and oversupply in hot markets like Austin, Denver, and Miami finally catch up with development pipelines. Yet on the ground in the Bay Area, contractors still can't hire fast enough, a paradox David and Vlad trace to the one corner of construction that's booming: data centers.

From there the conversation turns to the surge of new capital flooding into data centers, where vacancy sits near zero and investment has overtaken office. But the boom is drawing pushback — Monterey Park has banned new data centers outright and Seattle has imposed a 12-month moratorium — pushing development toward friendlier markets and raising hard questions about energy. Vlad and David dig into the grid constraints, the politics of green versus fossil energy, and why nuclear (and micro-nuclear) may finally get its moment.

The pair then examine the emerging value play in beaten-down urban cores, using the takeback of 415 Natoma — San Francisco's newest office tower, recently trading around $300 a foot versus the $900-plus of the last cycle — as a case study in how a lower basis resets what a building can lease for. With Northmarq's Jeff Whitehell recently estimating the market is only about halfway through its distressed-asset cycle, they see more value-add and distress ahead over the next 12–18 months.

Finally, they weigh Goldman Sachs' 15% recession odds against a hawkish Fed, stubborn inflation, and the elephant in the room: AI valuations. Drawing parallels to the dot-com bust, they debate whether an AI correction would stay contained among private companies or ripple through pension funds and the broader economy — while agreeing the underlying technology, like the internet before it, isn't going anywhere.

In the closing "Microscope / Telescope" segment, they zoom in on how looming AI IPOs are already pushing luxury home prices higher (with all-cash Bay Area deals now topping $1,700 a foot), the wildcard of a first-ever recorded U.S. population decline, and a Phoenix industrial market that swung from 4% to 12% vacancy in two years — where a fresh $122 million JLL bridge loan signals renewed confidence and the growing mainstreaming of bridge lending.

• (00:01) Intro — Welcome and catching up
• (01:10) Construction deliveries hit lowest level since 2011 — Rising costs, softening valuations, and the lag between planning and delivery
• (04:31) The labor paradox — Why Bay Area contractors still can't hire despite a national slowdown
• (06:42) New capital floods into data centers — Investment overtaking office; near-zero vacancy
• (08:26) The pushback — Monterey Park's ban, Seattle's moratorium, and where development migrates next
• (12:04) The energy question — Grid limits, renewables, and the case for nuclear
• (16:19) The urban-core value play — 415 Natoma, lower basis, and the distress cycle (with a nod to Northmarq's Jeff Whitehell)
• (23:07) Employment stays resilient — Low unemployment amid economic crosswinds
• (24:00) Recession odds & the AI valuation risk — Goldman's 15%, a hawkish Fed, and dot-com parallels
• (32:06) Microscope / Telescope: AI IPOs & housing — Luxury home prices, all-cash deals, and a shrinking population
• (38:07) Phoenix industrial boom-bust — 4% to 12% vacancy, a $122M bridge loan, and bridge lending going mainstream

In this episode of the Real Perspectives Podcast, co-host Vladimir Bosanac (co-founder and publisher of The Registry) sits down with David Saxe (co-founder and managing principal of Calvera Partners) to unpack how the coming wave of AI IPOs is reshaping the Bay Area's commercial real estate landscape — and why this boom looks fundamentally different from the ones before it.

Drawing on David's early career at Sam Zell's Equity Office, the two trace the lessons of the dot-com collapse against today's revenue-backed AI giants, then follow the ripple effects outward: from San Francisco's surging rents to Oakland's uneasy recovery, the Sunbelt's oversupply reckoning, and the Midwest's turn in the "musical chairs" of multifamily investing. They close with a look at interest rates, the condo-killing Right to Repair Act, and the rise of bridge lending as a mainstream financing tool.

What we get into:

• Why the AI IPO wave concentrates wealth in hundreds of people rather than thousands — and what that means for housing demand
• Lessons from the dot-com bust: Sand Hill Road rents "falling off a cliff" and why revenue changes the story this time
• San Francisco rents up 9–11%, CoStar projecting another 6–7%, and lease trade-outs hitting 25%
• The Oakland question: does the boom always spread east, and does governance slow it down?
• Housing element mandates, El Camino Real, and whether California can build its way out
• The affordable-vs-luxury housing debate — and why "just build units" keeps coming up
• Austin and Dallas as cautionary tales: record supply, rents down 20%, and investors drifting to the Midwest
• Seattle, Southern California, the Inland Empire, and Builders Remedy
• How leadership and politics (Lurie in SF, new mayors in Seattle and NYC) factor into development
• Interest rates: three big banks now projecting two hikes next year, and the end of "wait for rates to drop"
• Microscope/Telescope — David on SB 800's Right to Repair Act and the chilling effect on condo development; Vladimir on the $900B maturity wall driving bridge lending mainstream

Chapters:

• (00:10) Welcome and intros
• (01:43) The impending AI IPOs and a new concentration of wealth
• (02:50) Why this isn't the dot-com boom — revenue vs. hype
• (04:37) Lessons from Sam Zell, Equity Office, and Sand Hill Road
• (08:06) SF rent surge and the spread across the Bay
• (11:24) CoStar projections, lease trade-outs, and the Oakland debate
• (15:19) Development, the housing element, and a 300-unit surprise in Sausalito
• (19:49) Affordable vs. luxury: the "just build units" case
• (21:06) Austin, Dallas, and the Sunbelt oversupply story
• (23:59) Seattle and Southern California supply dynamics
• (26:46) Leadership, politics, and how much a mayor really moves the needle
• (32:22) Interest rates, inflation, and the end of "lend and extend" optimism
• (36:34) Value-add opportunities in the outer rings
• (38:15) Job market resilience and a nation of longer-term renters
• (41:53) Microscope/Telescope: the Right to Repair Act and bridge lending

The Real Perspectives Podcast is produced by The Registry. Subscribe for candid conversations on the forces shaping commercial real estate.

On this episode of the Real Perspectives Podcast, co-host and Registry co-founder/publisher Vladimir Bosanac sits down with Laura Kreuger, Founder & Executive Director of Asset Locale Property Management, for a wide-ranging conversation on where residential and commercial real estate are headed. A third-generation Silicon Valley real estate investor, Laura shares how she grew up showing properties alongside her parents, launched Asset Locale two years ago, and now manages both short- and long-term rentals across the South Bay — all while keeping her mother's rule that you should never own or manage a property you wouldn't live in yourself.

From the rise of "Instagram-worthy" spaces to balcony solar panels and the persistent puzzle of empty ground-floor retail, Vladimir and Laura dig into the forces reshaping how people live, shop, work, and connect in a post-COVID world.

In this episode:

• The hospitality-fication of real estate — Why residents now compare their apartment building to Airbnb, the Four Seasons, Apple, and Equinox, and how operators are competing on experience, connection, and a sense of belonging rather than location alone.
• Designing with purpose — How generational shifts (millennials and younger renters prioritizing well-being and mental health) are pushing developers toward spaces that feel good, not just look good, across multifamily, office, retail, and even life science.
• FIFA comes to the West Coast — What the World Cup means for Bay Area cities, the Airbnb hosting boom, San Jose Airport's AI concierge, and how smaller cities (think Nashville and Austin) can use big events as a catalyst for lasting tourism and identity.
• Retail as experience — Warby Parker, IKEA, and the return of touch-and-feel storefronts, plus why getting customers through the door still drives bigger baskets.
• The ground-floor retail dilemma — Why city-mandated retail so often sits vacant, the case for smaller flex spaces and niche operators (yes, including Puppy Yoga), the power of habit formation during initial lease-up, and how public-private partnerships and live-work models could finally activate these spaces.
• Microscope / Telescope — Two closing spotlights: plug-in "balcony solar" (over a million installs in Germany, now moving through legislation in 30+ U.S. states) and the CREW Network 2025 Benchmark Study, where Laura — this year's CREW Silicon Valley President — unpacks a narrowing pay gap (down to ~4%), stubborn representation numbers (women still ~38% of the industry, just 9% in the C-suite), and the urgent need for mentorship and awareness of the many career paths within commercial real estate.

About the guest:
Laura Kreuger is the Founder & Executive Director of Asset Locale Property Management in Campbell, CA, and the 2025 President of CREW Silicon Valley, an organization supporting women in commercial real estate.
Web: www.assetlocale.com · Email: [email protected] · Phone: 408.410.5242 · DRE #01890091

Hosted by: Vladimir Bosanac, Co-Founder & Publisher of The Registry

On this special episode of Real Perspectives, host Vladimir Bosanac, co-founder and publisher of The Registry, sits down with Jordan Angel, Senior Managing Director at JLL Capital Markets and current president of the San Francisco Bay Area chapter of NAIOP — now rebranding as CREDA, the Commercial Real Estate Development Association.

Effective July 1, the name change is more than cosmetic. Angel explains that it grew out of a practical problem: when members walked into meetings with legislators in Sacramento and on Capitol Hill, they spent half the conversation explaining what "NAIOP" stood for. "Commercial Real Estate Development Association" needs no translation — and it better reflects an organization whose members build multifamily, hospitality, and retail, not just the office and industrial product the original acronym implied.

The conversation covers the chapter's history, its role in state and local advocacy, and what Angel hopes CREDA looks like in five years.

What's discussed:

• Why the rebrand happened now, and why the driving factor was advocacy, not marketing
• Internal friction on the national board — and the unglamorous reality of reprinting mugs, flyers, and tablecloths
• How the shift is already growing multifamily membership in San Francisco
• The Bay Area chapter: founded in 1977, ~750 members, 50+ events a year, serving eight of nine Bay Area counties
• Legislative watch: San Francisco's transfer tax, and a bill clearing the commercial permit backlog that just passed Assembly Appropriations
• Mayor Daniel Lurie at the chapter's annual symposium, express bus restoration, and signs of downtown's return
• Why California legislation is "tip of the spear" for the rest of the country
• The chapter's annual proptech event and the value of sitting at the intersection of tech and real estate
• Angel's advice for younger professionals — and what he's gotten out of two decades of membership

Guest: Jordan Angel, Senior Managing Director, JLL Capital Markets; President, CREDA San Francisco Bay Area

Host: Vladimir Bosanac, Co-founder & Publisher, The Registry

Real Perspectives Podcast — with Jake Heller, Co-Founder of AI for CRE Collective

Host Vladimir Bosanac (co-founder and publisher of The Registry) and co-host Rob Zirkle (VP, Planning and Development at Prince Street Partners) sit down with Jake Heller, a third-generation homebuilder, licensed broker and contractor who has had a hand in more than 6,000 units across Southern California. After testing 300-plus AI tools, Jake launched the AI for CRE Collective — now a community of hundreds of brokers, developers, investors and operators, backed by a vetted database of 700+ commercial real estate AI tools.

The conversation moves from Jake's ChatGPT "aha" moment to a candid look at what separates genuinely useful tools from ChatGPT wrappers, and what all of this means for the people who work in a $30 trillion industry that has long lagged on technology.

In this episode:

• Why the Collective started as a group chat among friends and "spread like wildfire" into a leading AI enablement platform for CRE
• Jake's four-part framework for evaluating any tool: Will it grow my business? Is there proprietary data? How easy is it to get on and off the platform? What does the pricing look like?
• The end of "we'll save you time" as a selling point — and why proprietary data is one of the only real moats left
• The gold mine hiding in your own inbox: unlocking 30 years of LOIs, underwriting and deal history
• Where AI is already delivering ROI across the deal lifecycle — feasibility and yield studies (TestFit, Prophetic, GoDirt.ai), BOVs and marketing materials, listing agreements, OMs and legal review
• AI plan checkers and the permitting bottleneck — why entitlement is the space Jake is most excited about, and why cracking the city/bureaucrat side is high-risk, high-reward
• The building code is interpretive, not empirical: Rob and Jake on why experience and judgment still matter, and the real danger of "multiplying stupidity"
• Training the next generation: "AI will get you to the wrong answer faster if you don't understand the fundamentals"
• Institutional vs. the little guy — is AI an equalizer or a wedge? Blackstone and BlackRock partnering with Anthropic and OpenAI, the rise of internally built "command centers," and the case for small, high-performing teams
• False productivity, KPIs and the reckoning: "Without the ability to measure it, you can't manage it"
• Conversion events — from Jake's dad and his manual calculator to rebuilding a friend's website over coffee
• Jake's advice to students and new grads: be the AI person at your firm

Guest: Jake Heller, Co-Founder, AI for CRE Collective — aiforcrecollective.com. Most active on LinkedIn (daily, except Sundays); also on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok and X.

Hosts: Vladimir Bosanac, The Registry · Rob Zirkle, Prince Street Partners

Real Perspectives Podcast — presented by The Registry

Host Vladimir Bosanac sits down with Evan McLeod, Principal of Palmero Partners, a Seattle-based brokerage, consulting, and investment firm focused on RV parks, manufactured housing, and multifamily across the West Coast. Broadcasting from the Pacific Northwest, Evan brings a rare, ground-level view into one of real estate's most overlooked — and increasingly institutional — asset classes.

The conversation opens on manufactured housing and RV parks as one of the last true forms of affordable housing, where residents can rent from as little as $500 a month and even own their homes. Evan explains why investor capital is flooding in (he estimates the space is 10–20 years behind the apartment boom), why roughly 70% of RV parks and ~80% of manufactured housing are still mom-and-pop owned, and how location, transit access, and full utility hookups drive value. He also pushes back on the media narrative around rising rents, walking through the utility, tax, and insurance costs — insurance up 200% in a year — that owners can't simply absorb.

From there, the discussion turns to the topics shaping commercial real estate in 2026:

• Return to office — Governor Newsom's four-day mandate for California state workers takes effect July 1, potentially bringing ~110,000 people back to downtown Sacramento. Vlad and Evan weigh the boost to local businesses against loose enforcement, employee pushback, and the case for flexibility.
• Airbnb & short-term rentals — Tightening restrictions in coastal markets like Carmel-by-the-Sea, the "blunt tool" problem, the impact on mom-and-pop owners, and parallels to backlash across Spain, Germany, and France.
• Pension funds returning to CRE — Capital is flowing back, but reallocating toward industrial, data centers, and multifamily over office — often the same players chasing distressed deals.

The episode closes with the show's signature Telescope / Microscope segment: Evan on the rising cost of electricity and the push toward solar and utility recapture, and Vlad on whether we've reached "peak pickleball."

Guest: Evan McLeod, Principal, Palmero Partners (Seattle, WA) Host: Vladimir Bosanac, Co-founder & Publisher, The Registry

New episodes every week. Subscribe and stay tuned.

Timestamped chapters

• 00:00 — Intro & Pacific Northwest catch-up
• 02:30 — Manufactured housing & RV parks: the last affordable housing
• 05:00 — Institutional capital moves in; behind the apartment boom
• 09:20 — Valuation, pricing & the mom-and-pop landscape
• 13:20 — The affordability narrative vs. rising operating costs
• 19:00 — Return to office: Newsom's mandate & downtown recovery
• 25:40 — Airbnb & the short-term rental crackdown
• 33:20 — Pension funds returning to commercial real estate
• 35:50 — Telescope/Microscope: solar, energy costs & peak pickleball
• 43:40 — Wrap-up

Real Perspectives Podcast — presented by The Registry

Host Vladimir Bosanac sits down with Evan McLeod, Principal of Palmero Partners, a Seattle-based brokerage, consulting, and investment firm focused on RV parks, manufactured housing, and multifamily across the West Coast. Broadcasting from the Pacific Northwest, Evan brings a rare, ground-level view into one of real estate's most overlooked — and increasingly institutional — asset classes.

The conversation opens on manufactured housing and RV parks as one of the last true forms of affordable housing, where residents can rent from as little as $500 a month and even own their homes. Evan explains why investor capital is flooding in (he estimates the space is 10–20 years behind the apartment boom), why roughly 70% of RV parks and ~80% of manufactured housing are still mom-and-pop owned, and how location, transit access, and full utility hookups drive value. He also pushes back on the media narrative around rising rents, walking through the utility, tax, and insurance costs — insurance up 200% in a year — that owners can't simply absorb.

From there, the discussion turns to the topics shaping commercial real estate in 2026:

• Return to office — Governor Newsom's four-day mandate for California state workers takes effect July 1, potentially bringing ~110,000 people back to downtown Sacramento. Vlad and Evan weigh the boost to local businesses against loose enforcement, employee pushback, and the case for flexibility.
• Airbnb & short-term rentals — Tightening restrictions in coastal markets like Carmel-by-the-Sea, the "blunt tool" problem, the impact on mom-and-pop owners, and parallels to backlash across Spain, Germany, and France.
• Pension funds returning to CRE — Capital is flowing back, but reallocating toward industrial, data centers, and multifamily over office — often the same players chasing distressed deals.

The episode closes with the show's signature Telescope / Microscope segment: Evan on the rising cost of electricity and the push toward solar and utility recapture, and Vlad on whether we've reached "peak pickleball."

Guest: Evan McLeod, Principal, Palmero Partners (Seattle, WA) Host: Vladimir Bosanac, Co-founder & Publisher, The Registry

New episodes every week. Subscribe and stay tuned.

• 00:00 — Intro & Pacific Northwest catch-up
• 02:30 — Manufactured housing & RV parks: the last affordable housing
• 05:00 — Institutional capital moves in; behind the apartment boom
• 09:20 — Valuation, pricing & the mom-and-pop landscape
• 13:20 — The affordability narrative vs. rising operating costs
• 19:00 — Return to office: Newsom's mandate & downtown recovery
• 25:40 — Airbnb & the short-term rental crackdown
• 33:20 — Pension funds returning to commercial real estate
• 35:50 — Telescope/Microscope: solar, energy costs & peak pickleball
• 43:40 — Wrap-up

On this episode of the Real Prospectus Podcast, Vladimir Bosanac sits down with David Saxe, Managing Principal at Calvera Partners, a multifamily owner-operator across California, Texas, and North Carolina. From his new home base in Sausalito, David unpacks why deals are stalling nationwide — a stubborn bid-ask spread, regulatory drag, interest-rate whiplash, and the war in Iran's pressure on inflation — even as workout and distress deals trickle through.

The conversation turns to AI's twin impact: a wave of newly minted millionaires (OpenAI's $6.6B tender offer alone averaged ~$11M per employee) driving record San Francisco mansion sales and rents, and growing anxiety about AI's bite on jobs — especially for recent college grads, where unemployment is running well above the national rate. David and Vlad contrast SF's runaway rent growth with oversupplied Sun Belt markets like Austin and Dallas, the resilient Midwest, and a stubbornly stuck Oakland.

They also dig into the data-center boom and whether power — not capital — is the real constraint, the uncertainty tariffs inject into development, and the labor squeeze from immigration crackdowns. The episode closes on Los Angeles: a wide-open mayoral race, the entertainment industry's AI reckoning, and why both hosts still bet on the city long-term. Plus a "Microscope/Telescope" segment on whether AI creates or destroys jobs, and how headlines are making capital raising harder than ever.

Guest: David B. Saxe, Managing Principal, Calvera Partners. Formerly of CIM Group ($575M+ in investments) and Equity Office Properties Trust. BA in Economics (cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa), Northwestern; MBA, Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley.

In this episode:

• Market stagnation and the persistent bid-ask spread in multifamily
• AI wealth reshaping the San Francisco housing and rental market
• Jobs, AI disruption, and the youth unemployment signal
• Sun Belt oversupply vs. coastal recovery — "survive 'til 27"
• Data centers, energy constraints, and the China comparison
• LA's mayoral race, entertainment's future, and long-term outlook
• Microscope/Telescope: Will AI create jobs or replace them?

Hosts Vladimir Bosanac (co-founder & publisher, The Registry) and Byron Renfro (Orchard Commercial) sit down with Jeffrey Weidell, CEO of Northmarq, one of the few large privately held capital markets firms in U.S. commercial real estate. Jeff walks through how Northmarq evolved from a mortgage banking shop into a four-legged "capital markets" business spanning loan servicing ($80B+), debt origination, investment sales, and a growing investment fund platform — and why recurring revenue is what carries a firm through the cycles.

The conversation gets into where we actually are in the current distress cycle, the asset classes capital favors right now, and Jeff's candid read on interest rates and the broader economy.

In this episode:

• Northmarq's "three-legged stool" plus a fourth leg, and why loan servicing's recurring revenue was a lifeline through COVID and the rate shock
• The fund strategy: filling the niches Wall Street ignores — higher-leverage first mortgages, mezzanine, and pref equity in smaller bite sizes
• Where we are in the distress cycle ("the middle"), and why maturing 2021-vintage debt is forcing today's sales activity
• Which assets capital likes now: retail's surprising strength, smaller-tenant industrial, the office "winners and losers," and why hotels and seniors housing stay hard
• Bucketing deals: what's a no-brainer to finance vs. what's a tough one (weak sponsorship, tertiary markets, non-traditional product)
• Jeff's rate outlook: a normal upward-sloping yield curve, longer-term rates staying elevated, and why "stable is okay"
• The privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the "do no harm to housing" mandate
• The data center tidal wave: $150B (2023) → $400B (2025) → $656B committed (2026), synthetic leases, and the claim that half of U.S. GDP activity is tied to data center construction
• Why hyperscalers are chasing remote power, plus latency and the limits of going rural
• Building the next generation: Northmarq's two-year associate "coach" program, recruiting by referral, and why talent still clusters in fun cities and strong offices
• AI in practice: lease reviews, auto-populating broker opinions of value, and Jeff's advice — "wait a year"

Guest: Jeffrey Weidell, CEO, Northmarq
Hosts: Vladimir Bosanac (The Registry) · Byron Renfro (Orchard Commercial)