REBEL CURIOSITIES

Work. 

It’s constantly  on our minds,  what we think of when things go wrong - or when things seem to be going well - and what consumes our being.  

How do we think about work, and how do we get it right? What do companies have to do to help people find the right fit and roles?

Aki Taha is the former Director of Talent Acquisition at Netflix, as well as the Head of Recruiting for organisations such as Uber and Google.  With his extensive experience and in-depth knowledge of recruitment, he is now the co-founder of Talent Stories, an advisory agency for helping companies hire with purpose, intent and strategy. 

I love his mission in building Talent Stories as a guide for “the curious, the bold and the optimistic to help people define meaning and success in a complex, changing world”.  Aki is a thoughtful thinker, writer and definitely a curious rebel in rethinking the way we look at careers and work. 

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Key moments:

• Why we seem to be winging it at work 
• How do we add more intent to what we do for work, and why we do it
• Listening to the advice: “Your intuition only ever whispers” 
• Why building career capital is more important than monetary capital 
• His experience of the culture at organisations like Google, Netflix and Uber - it’s not what you think it is
• How his first meeting with Reed Hastings, CEO of Netflix, went 
• Why the key trait of thoughtfulness can be incredibly compelling
• How to hire talents with similar values, but not to create an “echo chamber”
• How interviews fail when it is about power
• Rethinking the inner status quo of how we lead our careers

Connect with Aki here:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/akitaha/
Website: https://www.talentstories.com/newsletter
Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4qpvS6dxDwo8bdzNvIaACB?si=fed448bcb0b44429/ 

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

What does your own personal rebellion look like?

You certainly don’t need to be that teenage rebel or be destructive. In fact, the ideal inner rebellion happens with deep self reflection and awareness, often for a better and more constructive mindset shift.

In this part 2 of the interview with Kenneth Tan, we discussed more of his own personal journey, how he came to be who he is, with the reflection of “having a rebellion for every decade”. 

His open honesty about his early years of having learning the freedom of exploration to learning discipline, to grasping the concept of free will vs. God’s will, and the realisation that time is finite.

It struck many chords in reflecting how life expands for us in each phase. There is a reminder of the dichotomies that he experiences through the years, one that can only be achieved by a deep sense of self awareness and realisation. 

We riffed about his choices of sports, picking up Muay Thai and sea sports E-Foiling in his 40s. It mirrors his philosophy on constantly reinventing his life, picking curiosity and courage over what others’ standard expectations. 

This is the Rebel Curiosities podcast. 

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Key Moments:

• How he knew at a young age that he wanted to “dance with the world, by doing what others can’t, won’t or don’t.”
• The value of learning and unlearning - walking away from being an anxious overachiever
• There is more to life than just constantly meeting others’ expectations
• Why the sports he chooses to do reflect his own life philosophy on curiosity and courage 
• Why people should find a passion beyond work in life
• How he founded the Asia Mentors Circle with other senior healthcare leaders to help upcoming leaders to drive the right impact
• How the journey of mentoring benefits both mentors and mentees   
• Why leaders need to lean into passing the “BS test” from the millennials generation
• Why we need to rethink about how we disagree - let’s allow for “principled dissent”

Connect with Kenneth Tan:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethdanieltan/

Find out more about the Asia Mentors Circle:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/asia-mentors-circle/

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

“The smarter leaders are, the harder they find to make it simple.”

Why do we find it so hard to learn the leadership language, one that transcends across cultures and people? What does true purposeful leadership look like... in a world that’s filled with buzzwords?

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In this conversation, I am speaking with Kenneth Tan, President of APAC at Varian, a global multinational company specialising in cancer diagnostic and treatment solutions, now part of Siemens Healthineers. 

There were so many aspects of personal and people leadership that we dived into, that we have inevitably created two episodes for this conversation.  

He talks about the 4 tenets of leadership that has guided his own journey. His views on the realities of working in organisations are highly pragmatic, yet infused with a sense of compassion and purpose. 

We discussed more about his career journey, what a truly meaningful DEI culture looks like and how authenticity these days have become a buzzword - and yet - so much more critical and relevant to us than ever. 

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Key moments:

• Connecting his passion in studying sciences to his career in healthcare today
• The art of listening to yourself: "You can either choose to disappoint others, or choose to disappoint yourself."
• As a leader, it’s about navigating changes - not just for yourself - but others as well.
• The four tenets of leadership that he lives by, including "if you do things the same way, you are going to get the same results”.
• Being a brilliant thinker versus being a great leader
•  “Best Practices”... and its declining relevance to a rapidly changing environment 
• How the world needs more disagreement - but we need to disagree a lot better
• The two most powerful questions leaders should ask.
• Authenticity is not a buzzword... neither is it the license to make people feel bad about themselves.
• Leaders need to be purpose-centred, not purpose-driven

Connect with Kenneth Tan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethdanieltan

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

How did a group of communication students transform - from what started as a school project - into a successful thriving media group across Southeast Asia, garnering accolades for their featured stories of Singapore... and being featured on the Forbes 30 under 30 list?

I speak with Kai Yuan Ng, co-founder of Our Grandfather Story, a successful media brand under the Unfold Asia group. “OGS", as it is commonly known, delivers a genuine story-telling approach to the raw, controversial and overlooked topics.  With close to 80 million views and over 800 videos release so far, this team of young founders have garnered real fans around the region and established themselves as innovative disruptors to the media industry. 

From talking about how it is living as a transgender person, to personal stories on surviving suicide, and interviewing someone who learnt how to forgive the driver who killed her sons, their stories are more than just social media interest. They lift the veil on the raw emotions of what happens in life, delivered in a very real and authentic manner from the heartfelt interviews that their producers dig into. 

And there is no way they can do that without leaning into their deep curiosity about people and the lives they lead. Respectfully, thoughtfully.

I enjoyed my conversation with Kai Yuan immensely. Not just because of the impressive stories he and the team produced, but also his real down-to-earth manner in sharing the journey behind his business growth, his motivations and vision for the media group. Now with a team of 50, he has also moved on from founder to business leader and shares his thoughts in the space.  

Key insights:

• How did Our Grandfather Story get started?
• Tackling the difficult stories and topics 
• What are the stories that appeal and trend?  
• Can the media and news be truly objective?
• The film or documentary that he most wants to do
• His most rebel-like philosophy

Learn more about Kai Yuan Ng here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ngkaiyuan/

Watch the featured stories in Our Grandfather Story here: https://www.youtube.com/c/OurGrandfatherStory

Unfold Asia as a media group:
https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/unfold-asia
https://www.unfoldasia.com/home

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

“I wish I can do it too.”

This is a statement I get when people ask me about what I do - or when we share the inspirational stories of people stepping outside of the conventional paths. 

But what’s really holding us back - and why is it so hard to find our “why”?

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In this episode, I speak with Wong Ling Yah, who’s a lawyer for 10 years, based in Malaysia. 

In her journey to find out if there’s more to life than the job she was in, she started out with a travel blog, then created a podcast to interview inspiring people from all over the world about their “Why” and how they made that a reality. 

Over 125 episodes, across 35 countries and 67,000 downloads later, she has now transformed her podcast into her own full-time business to help other professionals build their Linkedin personal brand in a way that resonates with people they want to reach. 

She’s an advocate of being authentically real and being personal, just being who she is - which resonates with audiences across LinkedIn. 

She has spoken to Forbes billionaires, olympians, Michelin-star chefs - as well as - (if you are familiar with The Late Night Show) James Borden’s boss and best-selling author Guy Kawasaki.  

Speaking with Ling Yah is an ode to all the gutsy souls who want to do something different and wanting to make something of it. This is a tribute to all who are currently looking to contribute to the world differently, wanting to build something to serve different needs - and ultimately something that speaks to their souls. 

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(3:05) How a side hustle got incorporated as a company

(4:48) Feeling stuck - and how to figure it out

(7:07) Not being bound by what people are telling her to do

(9:25) Taking the leap - when it feels right

(14:57) The secret to cold emailing successfully

(22:50) How she got the boss of James Corden, The Late Night Show, on the podcast

(26:41) How a tiny mindset shift changes everything

(29:28) Connecting with Guy Kawasaki on clubhouse

(32:16) Her most "rebel-like" podcast guest

(36:46) What is her rebel outlook in life

(40:43) 5 fire-rapid round questions (which turned out to be a mutual dare!)

(46:44)  Has she found her Why?

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Find out more about Ling Yah:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lingyah/

Subscribe to the weekly STIMY Newsletter: https://sothisismywhy.ck.page/acd5bd1062

Follow her on Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSZlcS5ooyCjj_MkrmH_WhQ 

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

“What would the 80-year-old you... thank you for what you do today?”

That was the question with a coach that sparked Adeline Tiah to rethink her career path. 

Having been an accomplished marketer with more than 20 years of experience across top banks and telco, Adeline had plenty to rest her laurels on. 

But the question stuck with her. If she had to work for another 15 years, what would she do differently?

So she started writing. 

What was to be her own dissection of doing things differently, became a published book - REINVENT 4.0 - that transformed into a framework for helping others through coaching and facilitating their own change processes. She describes her journey of personal change and the reinvention of her work identities. 

In that journey, she discovers that simply having a growth mindset is just not enough. 

Growth mindset is often defined as the ability and intelligence that can be achieved and developed through effort. The perception of possibilities and opportunities, vs. the view that the situation is what it is. We’ve all come to recognise it as an invaluable asset - especially in the startup world and working through change. 

Yet, I love the idea of challenging the premise that a growth mindset is just not enough. We discussed more about how the world has changed to impact that, how leaders should facilitate the agility thinking and the advice she has for people looking to reinvent themselves.

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Key highlights:

(2:28) Why a growth mindset is not enough today

(3:23) The REINVENT mindset
(6:13) How she got started on the journey of reinvention

(9:20) Adeline 4.0 vs. 1.0 - what has changed

(11:37) What do leaders find most challenging in change

 (14:10) Fail fast, learn fast - why culture is so important

(19:37) New role for Marketing as a function

(22:42) Stay curious, stay agile

(25:27) Advice for people looking to reinvent themselves

(27:37) What does the future of work look like

(29:17) Why the book was the most “rebel” thing she did

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Find out more about Adeline Tiah here:
https://adelinetiah.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/adeline-tiah/

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

For season 2 of Rebel Curiosities, we dive deeper into rethinking our own "status quo" - how to challenge some of our own personal biases and bring about change for better interactions and outcomes. 

And we are kicking off with the topic - RESPECT. 

• Ever wondered why some people tend to feel disrespected, even if we didn’t intend it? 
• Or how you felt the resentment of not given respect, from the smallest things like someone cutting you off to  being late?

Julie Pham is an individual who is on the remarkable journey to change the way we think about curiosity and respect. 

Currently based in Seattle, US, Julie was not only  a Cambridge-trained historian, a community builder and a journalist, but also a marketer, nonprofit executive, leading management consultant and co-owner of the Northwest Vietnamese newspaper for 15 years. 

These days, she is the bestselling author of the book “7 Forms of Respect” and the CEO of CuriosityBased, an organizational development firm aimed at helping people realise the power of their own curiosity.

(06:20) The journey of respect stems from friction
(10:51) Curiosity is a practice, not a trait
(12:49) Finding your triggers to “feeling” disrespect
(15:54) What was personally cringey for her in this journey
(17:31) Two key questions to ask in understanding respect
(19:40) Rethinking the golden rule - “Treat people the way you want to be treated”
(21:17) Is Respect a culturally-biased concept
(26:26) How to create an organisational culture of respect
(29:27) What are the 7 forms of respect
(35:57) How to manage the emotions of feeling disrespect 
(41:49) Curiosity thrives on not knowing, not outcome-based thinking
(44:24) A “rebel" who is not afraid of mistakes
(47:37) Rebel Curiosities: Having courage to do/think differently... from yourself

Connect with Julie Pham here:

• Website: curiositybased.com
• Book website: formsofrespect.com
• Personal Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/juliepham2  
• Company Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/curiositybased/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/curiositybased/
• https://www.instagram.com/juliephamphd/
• YouTube: youtube.com/@curiositybased
• Subscribe to our weekly newsletter
  Get my book, 7 Forms of Respect: A Guide to Transforming Your Communication and Relationships at Work

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

In this season 1 roundup, I look back at the best moments that each expert guest on Rebel Curiosities have shared - across different areas of work, life, business and leadership.

SECTION 1 - WORK/SELF

• (00:56) Lisa Partridge: Curiosity is more about listening - than asking questions
• (03:00) Jan Yeo: How to deviate from the “herd” with curiosity - while facing the fears
• (05:21) Dalglish Chew: Digging deeper in coaching to help others get unstuck 
• (08:46) Matthew Murrie: Why AI is going to be more of a partner - than a threat - in your curiosity journey

SECTION 2 - MARKETING, DESIGN, BUSINESS, 

• (12:12) Rhett Hermedes: Why Marketers need to throw away traditional planning process 
• (15:22) Leonard Reese: Curiosity is about (uncomfortably) challenging your own assumptions 
• (18:36) Gail Robertson: Don’t fall into the “We-We” syndrome in marketing 
• (21:12) Febronia Ruocco: What does it take to be an “Insight Rebel” to grow brands

SECTION 3 - LEADERSHIP

• (23:32) Febronia Ruocco: Curiosity and empathy - the difference between managing and leading
• (24:54) Wayne Reuben: How great leaders influence a culture of curiosity for competitive advantage 
• (27:55) Coen Tan: Resisting the “answer impulse” in powerful leadership

Thanks for listening and see you back on season 2 of Rebel Curiosities! 

Till then, as always, stay curious and take care.

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

Having grown up in an environment that does not have physical or psychological safety, Coen Tan is an empath who grew up not recognising his abilities to pick up emotions as a strength. As a result of that, he went through difficult periods in school, being bullied, with a yearning to be seen, heard and respected. 


He watched and learned how people interacted with each other, pick up storytelling to get others’ attention productively without being too much. He discovered that being able to recognise emotions quickly became a great skill for facilitation and coaching. 

It became his superpower instead.

These days, Coen is a coach, speaker, podcast host and writer of a new book about what makes leaders charismatic and great, featuring different archetypes from their different behaviours. 


We discuss about the archetype of Rebels - what it means to be one, who are they most likely to be attracted to, and their light and shadow sides. They are not all destructive or simply rebellious - because the rebels who care are the rebels who make the most difference in the world. 

We explore the role of rebel curiosity in leadership as well, what it means to have a healthy self-ego and the power of humility and asking questions. 

Key moments:

• What other archetypes do Rebels get along with?
• “With greater power comes greater responsibility” - the power of being a Rebel
• Can societies today accept rebels… (and can we afford not to)?
• Resisting the “answer impulse” as curious leaders 
• Curiosity is the willingness to embrace the insecurities of not knowing
• Why curious rebels will be the ideal archetype to embrace the future workplace 

Learn more about Coen Tan here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coentan

Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wholehearted-podcast/id1640212910
Spotify: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wholehearted-podcast/id1640212910

Website: https://www.coentan.com/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/coentan

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/

“You have to fail to know how to do it.... yet a lot of people lack the curiosity to deviate from the herd.”

 Jan Yeo is a Singapore-based entrepreneur who certainly does not play by the rulebook when it comes to choosing a career path. 

Jan started his studies in dual-sciences and realised that it wasn’t quite his calling. He then explored different routes as a web developer, to interactive advertising and marketing, to starting his own businesses - one of which included the highly-successful Riders Cafe restaurant situated in a rather unusual space of Singapore Bukit Timah Saddle Club. 

It was an unconventional choice for sure, especially in pre-social media times to promote the restaurant. Jan worked against much resistance and challenges from his own family and community during the 16 years of running the place with his business partner and team. 

Now the owner of two other restaurants in Singapore, namely Red Eye Smokehouse and Rex, Jan shares how he’s inspired by following his own curiosities in pursuing what he does, why he choose to constantly not accept the status quo to do things differently, his passion and grit to overcome the challenge in being a rebel entrepreneur. 

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Key moments:

• How his decisions stem from constantly "wanting to do something different" in school to career choices.
• How his instinct for risk-taking can sometimes result in bad decisions, but he  sees them as "possibilities" of what can happen and learning to be sharper, rather than just mistakes.
• How his curiosity about what works and doesn't lead him to do things that deviate from the herd.
• Getting the right people is the most crucial part of any business. 
• "You have to know the product you are selling" --- how having the lowest price may not be the best proposition  
• Why the customer experience may just be the biggest "product" that businesses can have.
• Facing fears head-on and taking that as part of the challenge... focusing rather on what he can do.
• His rebel philosophy: "We only have one life... and we should live it the way we want to." 

Find out more about Jan Yeo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janyeo/
Visit his restaurants: https://redeyesmoke.sg/  |  https://www.instagram.com/we.are.rex/

Connect with Pearl Lim:
linkedin.com/in/pearl-lim-curiousleaderscircle/