Refugees' Stories Podcast

This season follows the lives of those who have sought asylum for their sexuality or gender identity.

This episode follows Kazi, a young man from Dhaka, Bangladesh who left home to study dentistry in London, but found a new life as an LGBTQIA+ activist in the UK.

Made with the support of the Say it Loud Club, an organisation providing support and advocacy for LGBTQA+ refugees and asylum seekers in the UK. You can set up a one-off or monthly donation via their website.

Storytelling: Jamie Holton

Writing: Jamie Holton & Jessica Stone

Production: Jessica Stone

Kazi: People call me Kazi. I lived in Dhaka, the capital city of Bangladesh, and I’m from a very religious strict family. 

Should I tell you my story?

Jamie: Sure. 

Kazi: So, it is a long story actually. 

Jessica: Welcome to the second episode of season two of refugees’ stories. This season focuses on the lives of people who have had to leave their homes because of their sexuality or gender identity. Today we're listening to Kazi, from Bangladesh. Kazi was interviewed by our London-based member, Jamie Holton. You’ll hear her voice throughout the episode.

Kazi: So when I was in third year in my dentistry course, I had a very good partner, I called him Almas. One day, I went to the college library with him to find some journal for my course study, and I found that there’s an English journal, and there is a chapter regarding the homosexuality. I can’t remember the name of the journal, but yes, that was an English journal. 

And for the very first time, I read everything. I read that homosexuality is very normal all across the world. Then I said these things to my partner. 

And I say to him first time, that okay, the thing is, I’m feeling this kind of thing for you. I had trust on him, that’s why I said to him that I had feelings. 

He didn’t say anything at the time, but later he told me that yes, he’s in like love with me, that kind of relationship. So I said okay, now so that we can be couple. We’re reading partner, like within 24 hours, 18 hours we are talking to each other, on the phone, physically, so yeah, we can be couple. So, he said okay. 

When I said to my parents, to my dad basically, for the first time, that maybe this relationship is more than a best friend relationship, then he said to me okay, listen, you should be best friend. Not more than that. More than any kind of thing is prohibited in the society. 

And what happened after becoming a couple, study was like gone. So my dad said that, look, that’s why I told you not to do anything else apart from your study, it has to be like a group partner relationship, nothing more than that. See, you failed already. And he told it to my mom. 

The problem is he went to his village, to his dad, I think. And after that, I don’t know what happened. 

Maybe he was beaten by his dad, or I don’t know. I called him so many times. Later I found that one of my friends told me, he left the country. Still I don’t know where he is. 

The thing is, as I’m a homosexual man, I’m a gay man, the problem is this type of thing is still a taboo in my country. And homosexuality is prohibited, still, right now. 

Jamie: You might remember from the last episode that homosexuality in Bangladesh is illegal under section 377, which criminalises same-sex conduct. This law is rarely implemented, and is a remnant of British colonial law dating back over 150 years, but the government has now twice rejected recommendations from the UN Human Rights Council to repeal the law. Furthermore, there have been several high-profile murders of people for their sexuality in recent years, some of which have even targeted LGBTQIA+ activists. This is what Kazi is refering to when he says that homosexuality is prohibited. 

Kazi: So basically, after finishing my dentistry course from my country. I was feeling so lonely, and I was like, in a depression.  

So, on that time I tried first time in the United Kingdom, for the very first time I got the visa. After being in this country I became open, and then I realised that it is really a big problem. A threat to my life, I can’t go back to my country. Because right now I’m working as an activist in the social medias. 

My name, my face, everything, my sexuality is open right now, so my parents, all the social community people they know about me. I can’t hide myself. Already they threatened me that I can’t go back to my country. If I will go back, they’re gonna kill me. 

The thing is, when I got the visa first time for United Kingdom. Then I need also money to come here, because I was a new dentist. 

So, I told my dad that I needed money. But there is one condition, and if I fulfil that condition, he will give me the money and also he will give me the permission to come to London. And I said, what is it? And he said I need to marry a girl. 

I said immediately that I’m not prepared for this kind of wedding ceremony right now. Let me come here and I’ll think about it. 

I had to say yes, because I had no money. 

Jamie: Kazi was forced into a marriage. A forced marriage is where one or both people do not consent to the marriage and pressure or abuse is used. Unfortunately, there are members from the LGBTQIA+ community all around the world who are pressured by their conservative family to marry someone from the opposite sex to protect their family’s honour. An article by the BBC explains that even in the UK, many gay or lesbian people from South Asian descent are pressured by their families to enter a heterosexual marriage. The pressure put on people to marry against their will can be physical, emotional and psychological.

Kazi: I did marry an unknown girl basically. I remember the – 14th of October. And I came to London at 23rd of October. 

In these like five-six days I had no physical relationship with that lady. I talked to her by phone. Then I came back to London. 

And after that, I tried to avoid any phone calls from that lady. Because I can’t. I can’t maintain the relationship. I did all these things to come to London. And yes, I felt guilty, but what can I do? They always pressurize me why I’m not maintaining proper husband relationship with my wife.

And then my mom and dad said to me that, okay, now’s the time. You are in London, your wife has to be in London. And you have a visa, you can take your dependent with you, so why don’t you try that? I thought that she’ll never gonna get the visa. But she got the visa. She got the visa and she came here for the first time as well. It was hard for us to experience as well in London.

Day by day she understood that I’m not in a proper relationship with her. Of course, she tried me to have a good physical relationship, but I couldn’t maintain properly. I was not into it. 

So one day, I said to her about my sexuality, and the very first question asked, ‘why did I marry her?’ She was of course too angry with me, because she didn’t want to go back to our country. She wanted a good life, a secure life with me in London, or in abroad, anywhere. But I was unable to do that.

In the meantime, what happened, I found so many clubs with some of my friends. Normal clubs and gay clubs as well. And I was into relationship with a dancer, he is not my current boyfriend, my ex-boyfriend. He showed me so many things. Basically, he was my teacher, like that kind of thing.

Jamie: Soon, Kazi became a part of different LGBTQIA+ communities in London, and an activist. He started to share his life story and connect with others, both in-person and online.

Kazi: I joined first time Pride 2017 with my boyfriend, my ex-boyfriend. I thought that, okay, there are so many people, that it’s a big community. There’s nothing there to hide. So at that time, I found the chairman of Say it Loud Club and he gave me a visiting card so you can come. And now I am, you can say that now I am working unofficially as a photographer. I am an official archive man, because I always take the photos from Say it Loud Club. 

I am working as an activist as well, for Say it Loud Club. For me, I have Hopeless Angel, I call it Hopeless Angel, I have my separate Facebook page, which is a public page and I have like, more than 21,000 followers over there. 

So I found in my inbox, people are like asking me how to come to London, how to come to America, something like that, they always ask me help. But I tell them, express yourself because I can’t come to Bangladesh, but you are in Bangladesh, if you think that you are safe, okay, express yourself. You can’t hide yourself. You can’t live like this. But they say we are in a jail. The whole country is like a jail for them. So what to do?

Jamie: Even though Kazi felt accepted in the UK, his problems were far from over. Kazi would soon risk overstaying his student visa. Without a visa to stay in the UK, he could face deportation to Bangladesh, which for him, as an openly gay activist, could put his life in danger. 

Kazi: I got an email from the Home Office that my visa has to be curtailed. And my visa has to be curtailed, so I lost my job as well. And I had like, half of my money, my father already paid to my college. Half of my money still remaining. But as my visa curtailed, I did not have to fulfil half of the money to the college. 

So the relation between my college and me- gone. It’s gone. I am no more a student.  I said everything to my wife and my wife can’t handle this. So she said that we can’t live in a same place. So I separated from her. I separated from her. I found a different accommodation by the help of Sohel [name to be censored from the audio]. 

So my wife chapter closed. I’m illegal in London. I have no job, and I can’t get any job, because I’m illegal in London. I have no visa, I’m an overstayer. 

So what to do? In the meantime, I went to so many solicitor firms. And they told me like, okay, there is one option. You can do asylum. But regarding what? What kind of asylum? What is my subject? What to do? I had no idea. 

They said to me, okay come to us, pay our fees first, open a file, to our firm and then we can tell you what kind of asylum or what can you do. On that time, I was thinking, okay I think asylum does mean by political asylum or something like that. But I’m not a political person. Honestly, I’m not a political person. So I had no idea about that. 

Jamie: This was when Kazi started to think about seeking asylum on the basis of his sexuality. Immigration lawyer Gary McIndoe explains that it is extremely difficult to obtain protection through the asylum process, and for LGBTQIA+ people applying on the basis of their sexual or gender status, the journey can be extremely traumatic, invasive and long-winded, with no guarantee of success.

The asylum seeking process puts the burden on Kazi to prove to the UK government that he is gay, but there is a risk that the government simply doesn’t believe him. Kazi also has to prove that being gay would probably cause him serious harm back in Bangladesh, and that his government would not protect him. In order to do this, Kazi would have to go through multiple rounds of long, and nerve-wracking interviews, in a language that wasn’t his own, and where the outcome would literally mean life or death.

Kazi: Then I started my first application in 27th of March 2017. And we had a very very short interview like why I am here, why do I want to claim an asylum, on the basis of what? 

After that what happened, maybe 3rd of August, 2017 they called me for a main interview, a long interview in Leeds. So what happened, I became sick, because I was very nervous. 

I could not go to Leeds on the 3rd of August because I have a very chest pain, just because of-  I think it happened because of mental, what can you say, nervousness? [stress]? Mental stress. yeah. 

In the morning or in the evening time I think, I feel so bad. I feel so bad I called my current boyfriend and he was there, and he called the  ambulance.

Then Home office sent me a letter again that okay you can come 21st of August. 

It was my first time with Home Office. And it was so cold. I had a problem of asthma, but okay, anyways I had to finish the interview. Okay, and I say exactly what I’m telling now to you. But maybe my presentation was not good. Maybe I felt nervous so I was not prepared. 

They always asked me that, should I want to continue? I had no idea, should I say yes or no? But I said yes. I said yes. 

They have to ask you questions in several ways. And you have to answer properly, you have to express yourself properly. If you can’t express yourself properly, your fate will be like me. 

The Home Office refused me. They said everytime that Mr. Kazi, he completely failed to express himself about his sexuality. 

Jamie: Kazi’s case is now going to court. 

Kazi: Maybe I’ll be succeed this time, to express my feelings properly. I am wishing, because my court is coming after four months. So I’m wishing that I’m gonna win the case. Number one. 

Jamie: Kazi’s case has already been delayed a couple of times, and is now on hold indefinitely until the pandemic passes. While this uncertainty can cause anxiety and feelings of depression, Kazi tries to stay hopeful by supporting others through the same process.

Kazi: That’s my job, I try to motivate people to not like hide yourself, okay, if you want to claim an asylum, it is completely free, there is some process, you have to go through some process, it is very easy peasy, Home Office people they are not your enemies. They’re doing their duties. 

And there are so many asylum seekers calling me, they’re telling that oh Kazi, I won my case. I finally success to prove my sexuality to the court. Most of them are winning their case from the court by the way. Because I don’t know why, maybe they can’t express themselves to Home Office. That’s why they have to go through the fast tribunal. 

But anyways, the good thing is the refugees have a very fantastic future in the United Kingdom. We can, as a refugee status, we can work for BBC, we can work for CNN. We can work for any other normal organisations here. We can be self-motivated. We can go for Say it Loud Club organisations, we can work for this kind of organisations. 

So maybe I’ll go for a licensed course after becoming a refugee over here. Maybe government will give us an opportunity to help people in London, as a refugee status. I think we will get a five years visa from the court if we win the case. And yes, within these five years I have to be a proper citizen of London.

And yeah, I want to be a good mentor. And as a good dentist in London as well, if I will get the chance. 

Jessica: That was the second episode of season two of Refugee’s Stories Podcast. You’ve been listening to Kazi from Bangladesh, interviewed by the talented Jamie Holton, a member of the Refugees’ Stories Podcast team. 

This episode was made in association with the Say it Loud Club, one of the very few organisations working in the UK to support those who have been displaced because of their sexuality or gender identity. The Say it Loud Club is an incredible NGO that provides valuable community support, ranging from social events to workshops and legal aid, functioning as a lifeline for people during what can be the extremely long waiting period after seeking asylum. I strongly recommend donating and supporting their excellent work. The best way to do this is by setting up a regular monthly donation, which I’ve done myself by following the link through their website, www.sayitloudclub.org. Of course, all statements in this podcast are my own, and not to be attributed to the Say it Loud Club. 

If you would like to stay up to date with Kazi’s activism, you can like his Facebook page, Hopeless Angel. You can find the hyperlink in the transcript for this episode on RefugeesStoriesPodcast.org. Both Kazi’s Facebook page and the Say it Loud Club are great resources for anybody who is interested in learning more about this subject. 

For music, thanks go to Dan Bodan, Josh Lippi & the Overtimers, pATCHES, and Windows of Ken. The outro music is Shada Kalo by Fuad Almuqtadir, Upol and Maher—a special request from Kazi.

Thank you also to Kazi, for trusting us with his story. I can only hope that these stories go out into the world and help others to understand Kazi’s experiences, and those of others like him. 

And finally, my name is Jessica Stone, I’m the producer of this podcast. Thank you for listening to Kazi’s story.

Nadim was forced to leave Bangladesh for his own safety, but he has created a new life in the UK.

Abu Mustafa has lost a lot in the war, but still holds onto the hope of seeing his daughter again.

Andreas explains the difficulties that Syrian men face finding decent work in the Beqaa Valley, and why it's important to support livelihood skills for refugees.

Afaf loves her husband and children, but looking after her family is tough without having a proper house or the economic resources that she'd like. In this episode, Afaf talks about the tradition of girls marrying young in Syria, and how marrying young impacted her life.

Salem is a friendly and generous man who loves to look after all of the children in the settlement, not just his own. In this episode, we learn about what compels him to do this, his experiences in the military and his love of organic gardening.

In this episode, we learn about the dangerous journey two young boys took to be reunited with Jawahei, who is now their fulltime carer. Jawahei herself describes life in Idlib, and why she had to leave despite deciding at the beginning of the war that she wouldn't. 

The third episode features Mohammad and Amira, a long-married couple from Homs. 

Made with the support of Salam LADC, an NGO working in the Beqaa Valley with Mohammad and Amira's community and others like it. You can donate to Salam LADC here.

This episode was sponsored by Hindenburg audio suite. If you’re interested in getting into podcasting or audio storytelling yourself, try their free 30-day trial.

Music credits:

Axletree

 ALPHAMALE

Banda Comunale & Internationale

Amr Ezz

Jahzzar

Monplaisir

The Orchestra of Syrian Musicians

Translator: Hassan Choubassi

Assistant: Guillem Jimenez Vilá

Further thanks to Miguel Ángel Isotta Sanchez.

Writing and production: Jessica Stone.

Our second episode follows the life of Abdullah, a father of nine currently living in the Beqaa Valley. 

Made with the support of Salam LADC, an NGO working in the Beqaa Valley with Khansaa's community and other like it. You can donate to Salam LADC here.

This episode was sponsored by Hindenburg audio suite. If you’re interested in getting into podcasting or audio storytelling yourself, try their free 30-day trial.

Music credits in order:

Creeping Glass by Axletree

Amor é odio by Nuno Adelaida

teeth wrapped in tissue by ALPHAMALE

Ya Rayah by Banda Comunale & Internationale

F. Meridian by Nuno Adelaida

Farewell by Amr Ezz

Ya Souria Zalane Malak by Youssef Tage

teeth wrapped in tissue by ALPHAMALE

Intro by The Orchestra of Syrian Musicians

Lost Memories by Rocco Granata

Translators: Hassan Choubassi & Wael Yassin

Assistant: Justine Boillat

Further thanks to Miguel Ángel Isotta Sanchez and Piers Scholfield.

Writing and production: Jessica Stone.

Our first episode follows the life of Khansaa, a young woman from Homs currently living in the Beqaa Valley. 

Made with the support of Salam LADC, and NGO working in the Beqaa Valley with Khansaa's community and other like it. You can donate to Salam LADC here.

This episode was sponsored by Hindenburg audio suite. If you’re interested in getting into podcasting or audio storytelling yourself, try their free 30-day trial.

Music credits in order:

Lasbet Ma Yeoud Ezzamane by Yousef Tage

Three Kites Circling by Axletree

Semseyemin Ucu Kare with Oud Solo by Haig Manoukian by Orchestra Keyif

Green by ALPHAMALE

Tareek 3teet by Yousef Kekhia And Bisher Hafez

Mawtini by Faia Younan (Lyrics by Ibrahim Toukan, composed by Fleifel Brothers, arranged by Rayan Habre).

Translator: Hassan Choubassi

Assistant: Guillem Jiménez Vilà

Culture consultant: Mohammad Hamoud

Editing team: Jessica Alexander-Lillicrap, Justine Boillat, Stacy Gougoulis, Emma Hett, Laran Matta, Kristen Negrotti, Maria Stacke and Miranda White.

Further thanks to Miguel Ángel Isotta Sanchez and Nicholas Stone.

Writing and production: Jessica Stone.