This episode is about how justice and humanity can intersect, and what happens when you treat people like they can still be more than the worst thing they’ve ever done.

I’m viscerally aware of how serious crimes affect victims - I’ve felt that pain myself, but every conversation needs space for nuance.

And in this episode, you’ll hear former Barlinnie prison officer Frank and I have a very detailed one.

We discuss his expansive work history and his view of life inside Barlinnie, how modern innovations in rule-breaking make it tough to stop drugs getting in, plus the blackmail methods used against guards…

We take a look at the social factors behind crime and why so many end up in a cycle of prison, addiction, and reoffending…

And we explore why, in some cases, investing in rehabilitation makes more sense than a never-ending, expensive spiral.

And as always, there’s loads more.

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