In Part 1 of this important conversation, Mike Potter shared the deeply personal story behind his book Life Is Messy: Hope in Dark Places.

In this second conversation, we widen the lens. How does personal suffering reshape the way we build communities?

What does it look like to create environments where people don’t have to pretend to be ok okay?

How do we move from good intentions to wise, practical support?

Drawing from decades in education leadership, Mike reflects on how his own difficult experiences in life changed the way he leads - and how schools, churches, and communities in general can become places that are not only safe, but skilled.

We talk about noticing the person behind the behaviour.

We explore systems that support families in crisis.

We examine what it means for leaders to say, “I’m not okay,” and how that vulnerability can help shape the culture of a community.

Yes, life can be messy. But communities can learn to walk into the uncomfortable spaces, rather than avoid them.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. Why personal suffering can deepen compassion, if we allow it to
2. How a policy of 'notice and then act' can change a child’s trajectory and provide much needed support
3. What makes a community not just kind, but genuinely safe and skilled
4. Why behaviour is often a signal of something deeper
5. How multidisciplinary support can help families carrying trauma
6. The importance of leaders modelling vulnerability
7. Practical ways teachers, leaders, and community members can create safer spaces

..... and much more

About the Guest:

Mike Potter is a long-time educator and school leader based in Adelaide, South Australia. He is the author of Life Is Messy: Hope in Dark Places, a compassionate and honest exploration of faith, suffering, and resilience.

In Part 1, Mike shared his personal breaking point.

In Part 2, he reflects on how those experiences reshaped the way he leads and builds community.

Mike's book, Life Is Messy: Hope in Dark Places is available from Open Book Howden and Amazon (Kindle)

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In this deeply honest conversation, Stewart sits down with Mike Potter to explore the personal journey behind his book Life Is Messy: Hope in Dark Places. Mike shares how a ‘perfect storm’ of loss, leadership pressure, illness, and unresolved questions brought him to a breaking point in 2015–16.

As a long-time educator and school leader, he opens up about the cost of always being strong for others, the silence of God at times in suffering, and the unhelpful myth that faith should protect us from all pain.

This episode does not offer neat answers. Instead, it makes space for the real wrestle many people carry quietly. It’s a conversation about broken hearts, resilient faith, forbidden questions, and the kind of hope that can hold us when life doesn’t make sense.

This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation, focusing on Mike’s personal story and inner reckoning. In Part 2, the conversation turns toward leadership, schools, and how suffering reshapes the way we live, lead and care for others.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. What happens when buried grief and unanswered questions resurface all at once
2. Why the belief that faith guarantees protection from suffering can quietly collapse under pressure
3. The ‘forbidden questions’ many people carry about prayer, healing, and fairness
4. How leadership expectations can make it harder to admit, “I’m not okay!”
5. Why silence from God can feel unbearable, and what that silence revealed over time
6. The danger of blaming suffering on ‘not enough faith’ and how damaging that can be
7. What it meant for Mike to finally say out loud that he was not coping
8. How hope can still exist even when nothing is fixed or explained

… and much more.

Need Support Right Now

If some of this conversation resonates with where you’re at right now, you don’t have to carry that alone. Help is available.

In Australia

• Lifeline – click here or call 13 11 14
• Mental Health Triage Service - 13 14 65
• Beyond Blue – click here
• Suicide Call Back Service – click here or call 1300 659 467

For overseas links

• Help section on the Resilient Souls website here

About the Guest:

Mike Potter is a long-time educator, school leader, and author based in Adelaide, South Australia. He has served in education leadership for over two decades and is the author of Life Is Messy: Hope in Dark Places, a raw and compassionate exploration of faith, suffering, and resilience.

Mike speaks candidly from lived experience about grief, illness, leadership pressure, and the slow work of finding hope again without denial or spiritual shortcuts.

Resources & Links

• Mike' s Book 'Life is Messy: Hope in Dark Places' can be purchased here or find the eBook version here

Coming Up Next:

In Part 2 of our conversation, Mike Potter reflects on how these experiences we talked about here have reshaped his leadership, particularly in schools and communities carrying unspoken grief. We explore what leaders and communities need to understand about suffering, vulnerability, and creating cultures where people are not forced to pretend they are okay.

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• Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts
• Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Blog on Substack⁠⁠
• Stewart’s ⁠⁠Book⁠⁠

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A Note to Listeners:

This episode contains personal reflections on illness, loss, and grief. Can I encourage you to listen in a way that feels gentle and supportive for you.

This episode is a little different.

At the start of 2026, I’m walking through a season of grief as my mum reaches the final stages of her life. Rather than launching straight into plans and announcements for the year ahead, I wanted to pause and share honestly about where I’m at right now.

In this reflective episode, I speak about what it’s like to live in the middle of a slow goodbye. I reflect on the grief of watching someone you love become fragile, the ache of unfinished stories, and the quiet lessons that emerge when life cannot be hurried or fixed.

This is not an episode with answers. It’s a moment of quiet looking back. A reminder that many of us are carrying things we didn’t plan for, and that resilience is often found not in strength, but in showing up - for ourselves and for one another.

In this episode, you’ll hear reflections on:

1. What it means to grieve before you actually say goodbye.
2. The pain of realising how much of a loved one’s story we might not have ever fully known.
3. Watching roles shift as I need support and my children step up.
4. How grief and gratitude often sit side by side.
5. Why presence matters more than words when someone is hurting.
6. What this season is teaching me about resilience, community, and hope.

Why This Episode Matters

Resilient Souls exists not because I’ve figured life out, but because I’m walking it too. This episode marks a threshold moment: naming where I am before sharing where the work is heading this year.

If you’re carrying something heavy, I hope this reminds you that you’re not alone, and that there is a way through, even when the path isn’t clear yet.

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Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts

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In this second part of the Season 3 closer, Stewart moves from heart to hope — lifting out just a few of the nuggets of gold shared by guests this season. Through their stories and his own reflections, this episode explores how real-life wisdom can become real-life help for parents, teachers, and friends walking alongside kids and families in pain.

This isn’t about quick fixes — it’s about noticing, being present, and finding practical ways to make sure no one carries their pain alone.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

In this first part of the Season 3 closer, I’m speaking from the heart — no guest — about how this season’s conversations have impacted me personally.

Some moments have stirred memories from my own journey, while others have sparked fresh insight into what these stories could mean for your own life.

From unseen grief in children to the myth that “kids are just resilient,” I share clips from a few guests — and reflect on my own experiences — that reveal the invisible weight kids can carry, even when everything looks fine on the outside.

This is a heartfelt, behind-the-scenes look at some of Season 3’s themes, setting the stage for Part 2 of this closer, where I’ll highlight a few of the “gold nuggets” from these conversations. These are real-life stories with the potential to become practical resources Resilient Souls hopes to create — helping parents, teachers, and friends turn insight into real-life help for those walking through life’s storms.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. Why kids often carry more grief and stress than adults always realise — and how it can stay hidden.
2. The personal moments from Stewart’s life that this season’s conversations stirred up, and what they taught him.
3. Clips from guest stories from Season 3 that reveal the quiet, unseen weight kids can carry. Why the old saying “kids are resilient” can be misleading without the right support.
4. How noticing and being present can change a child’s (or adult’s) journey through pain.

… and much more!

Explore More from Resilient Souls:

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Website⁠⁠

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Blog on Substack⁠⁠

Stewart’s Book⁠⁠

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When Michael Chisholm reflects on his childhood, he sees how growing up in a home marked by conflict and pain shaped the man he became. Those unspoken wounds followed him into adult life, affecting his relationships and decisions—until he reached a turning point: realising that what you don’t work through, you pass on.

In this heartfelt conversation, Michael shares how doing the hard inner work helped him break the cycle for his own family, and why he now dedicates himself to supporting others — including young people in schools — to find hope, healing, and a different path forward.In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. How childhood experiences can quietly shape our adult relationships and choices
2. Why unprocessed pain often shows up in the next generation
3. The turning point where Michael realised change had to start with him
4. Practical steps he took to break destructive cycles and begin healing
5. The role of self-reflection, courage, and community in creating real change
6. Why empathy and understanding are key to supporting others on their journey
7. How his story now fuels his passion to guide and encourage others

… and much more!

Explore More from Resilient Souls:

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Website⁠⁠

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Blog on Substack⁠⁠

Stewart’s ⁠⁠Book⁠⁠

Follow Resilient Souls on:

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When Elizabeth Moncrieff-Philp lost her husband in a devastating car accident, she suddenly found herself raising four children alone — while trying to hold space for their grief as well as her own.

In this powerful conversation, Elizabeth reflects on what it meant to keep showing up when everything changed. From navigating school routines to managing the different responses to trauma in her kids, she opens up about the kind of parenting no one prepares you for — and the surprising moments of grace and strength that carried her through.

What makes this even more special, is that Elizabeth made the decision to move her children to the school where I was working as a young teacher some time after the accident. One of her children ended up in my class — and I look back now, realising I didn’t have a clue how to support them.

That’s why conversations like this matter. They give us access to the kind of wisdom that can shape how communities respond to families walking through loss and grief.

Whether you’re a parent, teacher, or someone supporting others in hard seasons, this conversation offers real hope and grounded wisdom.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. What helped Elizabeth keep showing up when grief threatened to overwhelm
2. How she navigated four very different grief journeys in her children
3. The surprising power of small routines — like packing lunchboxes, or getting the uniforms ready — to create stability
4. How each of her children processed trauma differently — and what she might have done differently, knowing what she knows now.
5. The deep impact of teachers, friends, and community showing up with quiet support
6. How faith helped her hold tension between pain, hope, and healing
7. What she wishes more people understood about walking with grieving families

… and much more!

Explore More from Resilient Souls:

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Website⁠⁠

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts

Resilient Souls ⁠⁠Blog on Substack⁠⁠

Stewart’s ⁠⁠Book⁠⁠

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Get Involved or Reach Out: ⁠⁠⁠

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Elizabeth bio:

Liz was a mother of 4 young children when her husband Tom was killed suddenly in a car accident whilst they were on leave in Australia from their role as missionaries in Nepal. She currently works as a mental health social worker where she has learned a lot about resilience from the stories that have been shared with her.

When Felicity Baird’s husband, Matt, died after a long battle with cancer, she was left to navigate her own heartbreak — while helping three young children face theirs. What followed was a journey of loss, faith, and slow rebuilding.

In this moving episode, Felicity shares what helped her hold on when life fell apart — and how she continues to find strength and beauty in unexpected places. From practical ways to talk with children about grief, to the quiet presence of God in sorrow, this episode offers honest insight into parenting, faith, and resilience.

We talk about how to hold space for hard conversations, the importance of community, and why faith and grief don’t cancel each other out. Whether you’re a parent, teacher, or someone supporting others through loss — Felicity’s wisdom will stay with you.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. How Felicity gently spoke with her children about death and grief
2. What helped her with her mindset — and why being honest about struggle matters
3. The role faith played in anchoring her through heartbreak
4. Practical ways to support grieving kids when you don’t have the answers
5. Why teachers often feel unsure — and how they can show up anyway
6. The small, life-giving ways community made a difference
7. What real resilience can look like in a family facing profound loss

... and much more!

Explore More from Resilient Souls:

Resilient Souls ⁠Website⁠

Resilient Souls ⁠Podcast⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts

Resilient Souls ⁠Blog on Substack⁠

Stewart’s ⁠Book⁠

 Follow Resilient Souls on:

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Get Involved or Reach Out: ⁠

Join the Community⁠

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Need Help?

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Jacqui Page’s story is one of fierce love, deep faith, and resilience forged in the fire of the unexpected.

After years of waiting and praying, Jacqui and her husband welcomed a daughter into their lives—though not in the way they had imagined. From the very beginning, her daughter’s needs were significant, and Jacqui found herself in the thick of hospital corridors, tough conversations, and decisions no parent ever wants to face. She was fighting for time, connection, and the chance to simply be her daughter’s mum.

But Jacqui also knows that not every story ends the same way. Many parents carry profound disappointment or walk through unimaginable loss. There are often no clear answers, and certainly no one to blame. Still, she holds fast to this: that even when we don’t understand, God’s goodness is not undone.

This episode is for anyone navigating a path they didn’t choose—who still longs to find hope, meaning, and a way through. It’s a conversation about parenting without a map, trusting God in the dark, and discovering the sacredness of showing up with love, even when nothing is certain.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. What helped Jacqui stay grounded in the midst of crisis and complexity
2. How to hold onto faith when outcomes are uncertain and the questions are real
3. What support looks like when the medical system feels overwhelming
4. The emotional and relational toll of parenting in uncharted territory — and what sustained them
5. Why sharing your story (even when it’s messy) can create space for healing
6. How Jacqui continues to see her daughter’s life as a gift — not despite the challenges, but through them

... and much more!

Explore More from Resilient Souls:

• Resilient Souls ⁠Website⁠
• Resilient Souls ⁠Podcast⁠ or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts
• Resilient Souls ⁠Blog on Substack⁠
• Stewart’s ⁠Book⁠

Follow Resilient Souls on:

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Get Involved or Reach Out: ⁠

Join the Community⁠

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Need Help? In ⁠Australia⁠ or ⁠Overseas⁠

Jane Oundjian has spent more than 30 years helping people navigate grief. But long before she developed The Bereavement Journey — an award-winning UK-based grief support programme — Jane was just a teenage girl grieving her mother — quietly, and without much support.

In this episode, Jane shares her personal story of grief and healing: from losing her mother as a teen, to later losing her young child, to eventually creating one of the UK’s most trusted bereavement support resources. Along the way, we talk honestly about grief stacking up, what helps and what hurts, how to support children through loss, and why facing pain is the only way to move through it.

This is a gentle, deeply wise conversation — full of practical support for grieving parents, families, friends, and anyone walking through loss.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. Why grief doesn’t disappear just because time passes
2. How previous losses often resurface during new grief
3. The power of community and honest conversations
4. How unprocessed grief can show up years later in relationships
5. Why children need truthful, age-appropriate conversations about death
6. Practical ways to support grieving friends and family
7. How faith and big questions can coexist in the grieving process
8. Why being strong isn’t the same as being okay
9. A simple writing practice to help you begin the healing journey

Relevant Links from the Episode:

At A Loss – Helping Bereaved People Find Support and Well Being ataloss.org

The Bereavement Journey thebereavementjourney.org

Explore More from Resilient Souls:Resilient Souls Website

Resilient Souls Podcast or search ‘Resilient Souls’ wherever you get your podcasts

Resilient Souls Blog on Substack

Stewart’s Book

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Need Help? In Australia. Overseas

Jane’s biography

Jane trained as a counsellor at Westminster Pastoral Foundation in 1993 and went on to train with Cruse Bereavement Care. She worked for them for many years in the North Kensington area, giving one to one bereavement support to clients and helping to run counselling training sessions for the Branch.

Jane has had her own bereavement experiences having lost her single parent mother at the age of 16 and also her first child when he was 14 months old. These experiences led her in 1995 to write and develop the original 5 session version of The Bereavement Journey which she ran for 23 years at Holy Trinity Brompton, before handing over the lead to Yvonne Tulloch in 2018 and the material to AtaLoss.

Jane was awarded an MBE for services to bereaved people in the Queen's Birthday Honours List in 2020.

Recommended books by Jane:

• A Grace Disguised, Gerald Sittser
• Necessary Losses, Judith Viorst