Sam Knoll: [00:00:00] Let's just kind of start at the beginning. I'd like to know your whole history, so I'm going to get you to divulge some of that. And let me know when you started cooking, Why, you know, how old were you all that good stuff?

JT: [00:00:16] I was, I was 18. I mean, it's pretty much the same circle. You started with me. The whole, uh, Willie Moats, Chuck Sass. Uh, Oh, Rick Maggard. Oh,

Sam Knoll: [00:00:32] I was going to say, did you work for Rick early on?

JT: [00:00:35] I started with him at crawdads cross. If you remember that all the way down at the South end of the beach. Yep.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:43] And that was what was at his second restaurant.

JT: [00:00:47] He had, he had, uh, Crawdad cafe. He had Coyote cafe, the little one on 27th street and a place called barking dog down at the end of 36th street. I think he was down then

Sam Knoll: [00:01:01] I remember barky dog.

Yup. It's amazing. Well, so, okay, so 18. What, so what was that just kind of like at a, at a high school, summer job, what, uh, what, not much.

JT: [00:01:18] It just, um, it was right there on the boardwalk and, you know, it's, you know, I love surfing back then fishing and doing all that stuff. So it made, made sense right there and yeah. Easy, easy, easy job to get back then, too. Yeah. Compared to everything else from high school where it was way bette pay.

Sam Knoll: [00:01:44] Yeah. I

guess that's true.

Yeah.

JT: [00:01:51] And I was 18 and there's, you know, a whole room full of adults that buy you beer.

Sam Knoll: [00:01:55] Oh, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. You had a good group. You're working with I, that was one thing that Rick Magard did very well. Was he somehow managed to pull in people and produce pretty talented chefs.

JT: [00:02:11] He could assemble a lot of talent that's for sure.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:13] Yeah. Every place he opened, for the most part, it was kind of amazing. And so, so let's see. So you basically, so from 18 until now you've been cooking for a long time. Yeah, we met back in what? 90? I don't know, mid nineties somewhere in there. Yeah.

JT: [00:02:39] How'd you get 96, 95, 96. Okay.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:46] Yeah. And it was interesting. Um, I was looking at, you know, some of the folks that we cooked with back then, and I was, I was, I was even, I was, I was telling my wife this evening. Yeah. That there've been times where I've gone back to Virginia Beach, simply because I wanted to go see where you were working and try to come in and get something to eat or come back and grab a beer with you when you'd get off work.

Right. It's been a long time since we'd been able to do that. Very long, probably too long. Yeah. We'll have to someday once this COVID stuff is over, we'll see if we can fix that.

JT: [00:03:22] I think, I can't remember. You always wanted to kick my ass cause I'd take you out way, way, way past your bed.

Sam Knoll: [00:03:27] Oh, without a doubt.

Well, at this point, you know, I mean, I'm like an hour and a half past my bedtime right now.

It's like you hit this, this 50 year old thing. Um, I obviously can't speak for all of them, but you hit that and it's just kind of downhill, you know, wake up at five in the morning for one to fall asleep at eight thirty or nine at night. That's just the way it seems to roll. Right. So, well, what else? Um, I'm trying to think, which, which are your restaurants out of all those, those jobs you've had?

What, what was your favorite? One of those and why do you think that was your favorite?

JT: [00:04:11] Well, we're like me Stroud. Uh Sulecki. I don't remember if you remember Paul Holbrook we're together for quite a while. We had a. Uh, coyote, like even at the beach and then we moved to a Laskin road. Yeah, that was, that was definitely my funnest time because I met, uh, some of the best friends that I still call best friends, even, even today, years and years and years later, you know, Mike Straud still comes over at my...

Lawrence: [00:00:00] I actually first met you when I was bouncing at Off Shore. The after hours club. Yep.

Sam: Oh yes. The after hours club. Cape Henry. Right. That was, uh, that was an interesting time of life, you know, it was, uh, for me, certainly work-wise it was, it was very interesting because I was that time.

I was waiting tables five nights a week and the same five nights a week, I would, you know, I'd get off work there at, you know, nine, 10 o'clock. And then at 1230, the after hours club would open. So I'd have like this little two-hour span during which I'd go around and stop and other places around the beach and say, you know, Hey you guys coming up tonight, et cetera.

And then go and work until seven 30 in the morning

for a bit, and then go to the restaurant the next day.

Interesting life work, go drink, and then go out and get up and go back to the restaurant. Yeah, seriously? It's uh, yeah, so, okay. So yeah. So you cooked at coyote. What else did you work after? Cause I left coyote in 96 when 95, 96. Yeah, I guess there's 96. Where else did you work after that? Or how long did you stay at coyote?

Lawrence: [00:01:51] Um, not too long lunches. And, um, Mike and Corey hired me over at Atlas.

Sam: [00:02:00] Okay.

Lawrence: [00:02:01] Paid me a lot more money, you know, so I didn't have to work too because I was a coyote on balsa doing the catering for Henry's not leave coyote and go over and. We be upstairs room and cater over there. Yep. And then, uh, and then I got into catering with Gary, but then I took some on my own, down at, um, uh, town point park, the TTI,

um, the head of development came and found me at, uh, Atlas. We had Gary and I had done a joint effort down there, but he couldn't make it. So I did the whole thing, which is in both our names. Hmm. He wanted me to do all the, uh, VIP tents. Very cool. So I would do the VIP tents on stage left, and then they would rent out stage.

Right. And tell and tell whoever ran it. I was their preferred caterer. So I used to get a lot of jobs like that.

Sam: [00:03:03] That's not a bad gig, frankly.

Lawrence: [00:03:07] Because I'd be running lunches and Atlas and hunger, a guy to go to five one. They let me use that to prep for that night. Then load up the car with all the food down to town point, get all that done.

Then head up to, uh, one of the bars and Waterside go down to Sidney's place. I hang out there.

Sam: [00:03:35] It's wild. What was it like working at Atlas? I was always, you know, cause I, I then moved out of town and, you know, essentially at 96, um, but came back with some frequency and I always ended up eating it at one of the Atlas diners. And I, I always thought that wouldn't seem to be a smart move. It was kind of like they'd, they'd figured out how to.

To almost standardized to some, to some idea, you know, their location so they could keep opening new ones. Was that kind of the way that one worked or what did you, um,

Lawrence: [00:04:12] they were, they were, pattering patterning that off of, uh, Ruby Tuesdays. Uh, they opened up 17 of those and then sold that off for millions.

And that was their original plan was to. To do exactly that. Just keep opening them until they get to a certain level. They can get bought out, but that went awry. They, they, because of Corey, they were, they were, there was a chef-driven system. Yeah. It had standardized recipes, but you had to have culinary skills to actually pull it all off.

Sam: [00:04:52] True. Yeah, because the level of dining was up high enough. You would need that.

Lawrence: [00:04:57] Right. And that was where the problem came in. Couldn't find enough, you know, like they have today when you couldn't find enough good people to maintain that level. So where their downfall was, I was the last chef in their system when I left and they went to, to, to make an, you know, I made my mashed potatoes.

I made so much as homemade. They went to boil in the bag of potatoes....

jason_jell_

Sam Knoll: [00:00:00] Man, how are you doing?

Jason Jell: [00:00:02] Uh, it busy, very busy. We've we're we've got a couple of big meetings coming up and been prepping for them and, uh, I'll be happy when we're on Christmas break. Let's put it that way. How about

Sam Knoll: [00:00:14] yourself? Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of the same. I've just got so many balls in the air.

It's kind of nuts right now. So, which is good. So

Jason Jell: [00:00:22] yeah, nobody likes to be bored.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:25] That's right. Not at all. So, well, this, I knew this would sound weird having me get you on here. I'm going to keep moving around because things bothering me. But anyways, um, because I know you have nothing to do with food service industry at all right

Jason Jell: [00:00:45] now, but I knew you

Sam Knoll: [00:00:48] had some history.

And, uh, and so I thought, I don't know. I figured it could be a little fun just to get you in and just find out. I mean, it's interesting kind of even how you got into it, why you did it. Um, I think do, did you meet Jennifer, your wife, where you were working or did you know her before that?

Jason Jell: [00:01:10] No. No, I, I, I, uh, I met her there.

I, uh, started, I started in restaurants when I was 16. It was my first real job. Um, you know, before that paper, boy. Worked on a farm, uh, cut cabbage broccoli, picked corn through hay and, um, restaurants were like, it was my first stable job. Let's call it that. And, um, uh, and I remember when I first started, he was, uh, I remember it because they wore these pasta steak and sea house.

So is the restaurant and, um, it's a, it's a chain, but it's primarily in Pennsylvania. There's some in New York. Uh they're they're still around. Um, And, uh, I was doing my rotation thing in the beginning where they're doing the walk run and everything. She was bagging trash cans. Uh, she was a waitress at the time.

And, uh, they had these, when we first started, they wore these, like, I swear, I was like a little house on the Prairie kind of dress looking thing. Um, there were white with like, like poofy shoulders and like, uh, yeah, it, so I remember, um, I remember when I first saw her. and we didn't date for a whole bunch of years after that, because a couple of years, she's a couple of years older than me.

And you know, when you're 16, you know, dating somebody who's a couple of years older than you it's like a big deal now. So we didn't date until I was in college, actually. So it was probably about a half a dozen years or so, but we knew each other, obviously the whole time. That's

Sam Knoll: [00:02:46] pretty wild. I didn't realize all of that.

That's kind of cool.

Jason Jell: [00:02:50] Oh yeah. I got a lot of, I do have a lot of restaurant years under my belt, I guess I should say that. Probably about 10 years I spent working there. I was a dish man, uh, for several years. Uh, that was my, that was where I cut my teeth in restaurant. And, um, you know, then I, I graduated to, uh, two, well line.

Like I worked, uh, just the end line where I did all like the. Final finish crap, where they put the new guys. And then I moved over gradually to like try or which is where they put the new guys that are half decent. And then, you know, eventually ended up being a grill, man, doing the steak and seafood still have the, still have the scars to prove it, uh, all over my arms.

Sam Knoll: [00:03:35] You too, dude. It was really funny the other day. I don't know why. I found myself like looking at my right arm. I was like, man, I've got like nine or 10 scars down my arm here that I never even pondered. You know,

Jason Jell: [00:03:49] and my fingers

Sam Knoll: [00:03:50] look like, you know, I've like been fighting somebody in a back alley or something,

Jason Jell: [00:03:56] and it's all like little cuts and whatever

Sam Knoll: [00:03:58] else from working in restaurants.

Jason Jell: [00:04:02] I remember, um, I remember when it...

Interview with Chef Jason Godwin. Jason has over 30 years in the foodservice world and has help pretty much and cooking position one can imagine, in an efforts to live in and learn the best way to produce and serve food.

Jason is a guy from the country who has figured out food. His cooking style is inviting and delicious. He also happens to be married to my little sister.

I hope you enjoy learning some of Jason's life behind the kitchen walls:

Jason Godwin: [00:00:00] How's it been going?

Sam Knoll: [00:00:01] Good. Good, man. How are you doing? Are you working like crazy?

Jason Godwin: [00:00:07] Which is good, but it's kind of slowing down now. It's work. Yeah, season's kind of over so to speak, but there's still a lot more like a local summer is what we call it around here.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:18] That works.

Yeah. That'll keep you busy. Totally works.

, in all honesty kind of, um, to, to kind of roll through this, what I'd I'd like to do first is just have a few questions I can hit you with just because I want the people listening to know kind of what your background is, how you want about how you've gotten to where you are.

And, um, you know, so I kind of want to run through a few questions. Uh, we can go through those. And then, uh, from there, we, I think some of those may help kind of lead to whatever stories or the covid stuff you've dealt with at work or whatever it may be, you know, that, uh, that you feel like you want to share with everyone since that.

Yeah,

I think, um, you know, some of the things that when people see somebody works in a restaurant, they've got this nice level of achievement, you know, one of the things that people always wonder is, you know, like, so when did you start. Working in restaurants, you know, how old were you? 17, 15, 25. You know? So when did you, when did you get going in this whole business?

Jason Godwin: [00:01:40] And the restaurant industry, uh, got into when I was, uh, is really young. It's actually, I think first job, maybe 14, 15, uh, busing tables. Um, on the weekends, Saturdays and Sundays, you know, and, um, it was a way to kind of learn the value of a dollar as a kid, you know, and, uh, have a few extra bucks in the pocket to go out to the football game on a Friday night, or maybe to the movies with a girlfriend or something like that.

Um, but, um, yeah, you know, a first job and. Um, staying in the industry, so to speak, whether it be, um, you know, did that and got into, I think, uh, worked for like a yogurt store, you know, ice cream shop in high school, you know, nice. It wasn't probably until, uh, a say 19 or 20, 21, uh, started into it. And, um, For the most part I've been in it ever since.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:53] So. And I'll, I'm going to throw a little bit of background also, and, you know, for anyone that's listening, because I didn't even really explain who you are, you know, so this is, this is Jason Godwin, who is my brother-in-law. Um, and I thought, you know, one of the cool parts of. Of working in the, in the restaurant business was that then my sister married a guy who was also in the restaurant business.

So yeah, that was what that's, why I wanted to talk with you is I know some of your history, you know, and so I've always been impressed because you didn't just buss bulls and then start doing little cooking. You actually worked in some different types of restaurants to learn. Some detailed elements about it.

I mean, I know you did the, you did ask some bakery time as well.

Jason Godwin: [00:03:45] I mean, I've done a little bit, like I've done different parts. Um, started out baking as well. Um, you know, getting up in the morning. Going in doing like morning breakfast, you know, pastries, uh, and then rolling over to the bread side and making pies and cakes as well.

Um, you know, I enjoyed that. So pursued that for several years and then, um, got really interested in the savory side of things and started, started trying to train...

Dan Serafini: [00:00:00] this is, this is like the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing during COVID. I guess we're all being next, next, next Monday, I guess where I'll be.

Okay. And. I'll be in, Riviera Maya, Mexico. Yeah. Well, you know what I'm going to, I mean, I'm staying at a place called the one eco resort, which is top, top, top, top shelf, you know, something it, and th the, the, it is phase. It is, level three Mexico, but only for Mexico city, Guadalajara Acapulco, all the major cities.

When you're on one of these resorts, they're only allowed to fill up the 25% occupancy. Yeah. So, so my fam I'm going for free, by the way. You know, I, I, I go every year, a couple of times a year, Mexico, Jamaica, Saint Lucia, you name it. but so basically what I'm getting to, it would be a mistake for you not to contact me if you're ever interested in traveling to the Caribbean, because.

My family owns the most reputable travel agency in the tri-state area. We're internet based. It's called simplicity. It's called simplicity, travel.com. There we go. Hopefully this will be a podcast and you can plug that

it for you, Sam, for friends and people that I know. You know, what, if you book a regular room, which is still stellar, the probability of getting upgraded to a presidential suite is, is, is almost a hundred percent. You know what I mean? Because nobody buys those presidential suites or the ocean view suites.

So guess what you slide right in there because you booked through simple simplicity travel. So that's one of my jobs by the way. Yeah. That's why, that's why that Jamaicans love me because I'm more than one job just like that. yeah. Yeah. So, that's where I'll be next week with, with my brother, just my brother and I, yeah. First time ever traveling alone with him. You know, that

Sam Knoll: [00:01:52] could be interesting.

Dan Serafini: [00:01:55] Oh yeah. So, I mean, I, I speak a little quickly, you know, I know you probably want to get this on this, the last interview of the evening, right.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:02] It doesn't matter. There's no time limit of it, of any sort, you know what I mean? Again? And this is the restaurant reality aspect of this, you know, as I said, we went to culinary

Dan Serafini: [00:02:15] school together. Sure. I have

Sam Knoll: [00:02:17] been out of the food world since Oh two Oh three.

Dan Serafini: [00:02:21] Oh, wow. Wow. What are you doing? What are you doing now?

What are you? What have you been doing?

Sam Knoll: [00:02:29] Internet marketing consulting. I did. I was a digital director for a big, huge division of a biotech

Dan Serafini: [00:02:36] company.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:37] I got out of the cooking business. I, I cook every day.

Dan Serafini: [00:02:42] I love it. Passion.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:45] Yeah. And, and I would eat out every day if I could. That's just too much pricey, but

Dan Serafini: [00:02:49] Oh yeah. Yeah. It's fun.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:54] But I know you got out of it too to some degree.

Dan Serafini: [00:02:58] Oh, sure.

Sam Knoll: [00:03:00] I have no idea. It would be interesting to know how many people from our graduating class. Are you still working in the restaurant business? I know a good number are.

Dan Serafini: [00:03:09] But a good number are, but I wouldn't have to say about, you know, what generously con conservatively, I should say, 50% got out and I would say, you know, you know, something, you're not going to be the old school executive chef with the big paunch belly, you know, French guy.

He's not gonna do it anymore. You know what I mean? That doesn't really exist anymore. I worked for some of those kinds of chefs before in my life, but, but, you know, and plus the money's just not there. It's not there. It's impossible to have a family and be in the restaurant business. I found that out, by owning two restaurants and what's, y'all going through in a little bit, you know, you just can't do it unless you're ma you're...

Sam Knoll: [00:00:00] Cool. Well, let's see. I just wanted to get you on and go through a little of your story, a little of our history, you know, Kind of get the, uh, the Rick Marcel background here.

Rick Mersel: [00:00:17] Yes. Sam, I'm telling you what happened. Okay.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:22] You still there? Yeah. How many years have we known each other now?

We're 35.

So Sam,

Rick Mersel: [00:00:27] when did, how long, when did you start off the Academy?

Sam Knoll: [00:00:30] I started in eighth grade. So that was what? 80. Two 83, I think

Rick Mersel: [00:00:39] 74.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:42] No, that's not right. Yeah.

Rick Mersel: [00:00:45] Yeah. So I know you're for about 39 years.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:47] 39 years. Yeah. Can you, we're coming up on 40 years. I didn't.

Rick Mersel: [00:00:53] God, wait a minute. All right. That's it. We're done.

Sam Knoll: [00:00:55] I know.

Geez.

[00:01:00] Rick Mersel: [00:00:59] Almost 40 years.

Sam Knoll: [00:01:01] Yeah.

Rick Mersel: [00:01:03] Yep.

Sam Knoll: [00:01:04] Yep. So it's a, you're smart. You got out of hat. Well, you don't have as much gray as I do. Um, you know, yeah. Here's, this is, uh, this is a

Rick Mersel: [00:01:15] haircut. Thanks to my wife.

Sam Knoll: [00:01:17] There you go. Cool dude. Well, you know, I'm, I'm doing this book, which is. I'm going to break into to our thing here.

But, um, um, I had this idea to do a book that was kind of sharing stories from friends who worked in restaurants, bars, and food service. And I know it's not what you're doing now, but I know you worked in restaurants, you ran a nightclub. You, you know, you've, you've had numerous businesses and even your current business that you run now.

You know, as has got the nightclub element.

Rick Mersel: [00:01:58] Yeah. I've always been surrounded [00:02:00] by food. Never really involved in food directly except.

Sam Knoll: [00:02:03] The South

Rick Mersel: [00:02:04] Carrollton deli in new Orleans where I was head sandwich. Boy, I could definitely tell you stories about

Sam Knoll: [00:02:10] that. That's why I pulled you in. Okay. What do you want

Rick Mersel: [00:02:14] to hear a couple of those stories right now?

Sam Knoll: [00:02:16] Yeah. All right. So,

Rick Mersel: [00:02:18] so, so I was, I was in new Orleans. Um, it was, it was towards, I guess the end of the, the, uh, end of the summer and I was bored, so I figured I needed to get a job. So they had the South Carrollton deli. Uh, which is located at the end of st. Charles, uh, at uptown square, I believe it was, or there was another, it was next to chameleon grill, which is a, uh, which is an institution in new Orleans anyway.

So I told the guy I had experience, um, my experience was eating deli sandwiches. Yeah, exactly. Not, not making them, but, uh, the head sandwich, boy, it was my job to steam, the [00:03:00] meat. So, so I was gonna take the meat, take it over to the steamer, put it on the steamer, close the lid. The meat would be steamed. I'd put it on a sandwich and then I'd throw the cheese on.

Which would slowly melt and then all the condiments and lettuce and all that stuff. Well, my big breakthrough moment was I decided I was going to put the cheese in the steamer with the meat so they could meld together. So I think I invented that also

Sam Knoll: [00:03:30] would have all the restaurants do that now. You know,

Rick Mersel: [00:03:33] I think that was me.

The other thing I invented was, so we had this guy who was from California. So you had avocado, he had sprouts, he had eggs. This is stuff that was not typically on sandwiches back then. Now it's totally standard stuff, but no one saw an avocado in the eighties. Um, they just didn't exist. There were only in Mexico.

So this guy had avocado sprouts, eggs and stuff. So I decided [00:04:00] I'm going to put all this stuff together in a pita. So it was sprouts. It was avocado, it was egg, it was onions. It was cheese. So I think I had been...

This is a pair of stories from my restaurant days. I would like to say that this story is unique but unfortunately things like this came up on an almost weekly basis.

The title of this will make much better sense as you listen to the story and I am sure you will understand why I chose the title "Japanese Fighting Sticks" for this episode.

The second story I share is a little shorter and is simply the way many of my nights, or early mornings, worked out when I owned five restaurants.

Relax, escape and have fun my friends!

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Welcome to the Restaurant Reality Show, the weekly podcast that promises to share the real stories that take place behind the scenes in the foodservice world.

I’m your host, Sam Knoll, the founder and president of the website consultancy SamKnoll.com, the author of the soon to be released book Restaurant Reality, an over 20 year veteran of the restaurant industry and a graduate of the Culinary Institute of America. The bottom line is I know a ton of foodservice people who are going to share the reality of what happens behind the scenes from their restaurants all over the world.

Now, thank you so much for joining me on the Restaurant Reality Show. Please remember to tell your friends that these shows are available to listen to for free in any, and I mean any app that supports podcasts whatsoever!

Now, I hope you enjoyed this interview and that it enabled you to let go of all of the “stuff” that life seems to be throwing at you these days as a little fun in your life is an essential thing.

So, now go on and enjoy the rest of your day or night and please Remember… that restaurants are our friend!

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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy