Joseph Szala has publicly graded three restaurant rebrands. Domino's worked. Long John Silver's worked. Cracker Barrel did not. His read is that the logos had almost nothing to do with any of it. Cracker Barrel sterilized the interiors, lost the rocking chairs and the old man on the sign, then let a rebrand take the blame for a shift that was already underway. Domino's ran an ad where the CEO admitted the pizza was bad and promised to fix it, and bought itself years of goodwill in the process.
This week, Andy sits down with Joseph Szala, who has spent almost twenty years pointed at restaurants, most of it talking operators out of the thing they came to buy. He founded the branding agency Vigor in 2003, narrowed it to restaurants only, and sold it in 2021 after eighteen years. Today he is Partner and VP at 3Owl, which builds websites and digital ordering for around fifty multi-unit brands, and he runs his own branding studio, Bullhearted. He has written five books, including Mass Behaving on brand archetypes, now in its second edition, and Quiet Killers, which he says is the reason he wanted to come on this show.
He sits on the brand side and the commerce side of the same problem, which means he has watched brands buy a rebrand to avoid fixing the kitchen and buy a platform to avoid fixing the org chart. His answer to the question every struggling operator eventually asks, is a rebrand going to fix this, is the most useful thing in this conversation.
In this episode:
• What losing the rights to his old blog in the Vigor sale taught him about which parts of a brand are worth fighting for
• Why a rebrand is almost never the fix for a failing brand, and what actually is
• Cracker Barrel vs. Domino's vs. Long John Silver: what separated the rebrand that backfired from the ones that worked
• "Slop is human": what AI-generated content reveals about the quality control we were already skipping
• The math he ran on the AI-designed barbershop flyer everyone was mad about
• Who should own brand voice when the order-taker is a language model
• Survivorship bias, siloed teams, and why he would put "tech" at the end of every C-title
• Why the digital guest experience is the most important thing a restaurant brand sells, and still gets treated like a brochure website
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:41 The name he did not mean to let go of
04:41 Why he now thinks the name sucked
05:58 Is a rebrand ever the actual fix?
06:56 What is usually wrong instead
08:37 Branding is shared by everyone in the organization
09:12 Three rebrands, and what separated them
10:40 What Domino's got right
12:39 Cracker Barrel, the interiors, and the rocking chairs
14:29 Survivorship bias and the copycat problem
16:17 Nobody ever got fired for hiring IBM
17:57 How restaurant tech stacks actually get chosen
18:55 What happens when leaders take the vendor's number at face value
21:59 Buying tech that scales with the next 25 units
23:48 AI as an accelerator, not a solution
27:34 The barbershop flyer math
29:38 Where he will not let AI near the numbers
35:51 When your order-taker is a language model
39:59 What to audit first
45:59 Why he would put tech at the end of every C-title
47:07 The digital guest experience, and the lift brands leave on the table