Nothing is arguably more fundamental to a democracy than voting. But it’s not enough to have a secure election. The electorate also needs to trust that the results are valid. In the United States today, that trust is in short supply – many people believe that the 2020 election was rigged. On one hand, many of our electronic voting systems are demonstrably insecure and trivially capable of being hacked. On the other, our cybersecurity experts, government agencies and election officials are telling us that the 2020 election was one of the most secure in US history and voter fraud almost never happens. So which is it? How do we reconcile these two seemingly incongruent positions?

Today I’ll ask these questions and more of computer and election security guru Harri Hursti. Harri has investigated and hacked several popular election systems used in the US and runs the Voting Machine Hacking Village at the annual DEF CON hacking conference. He’s also officially observed many elections around the world and participated in several high profile audits. As if that weren’t enough, Harri’s been featured in two separate HBO documentaries on election security and is co-founder of the Election Integrity Foundation. I met Harri at DEF CON 29 and I was thrilled when he agreed to come on the show.