Retained Trust

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes reconnects with Kurt Schnakenberg, founder of adbm.agency, to reflect on the agency’s growth, challenges, and pivotal lessons from its first 1.4 years. Kurt discusses the reality behind setting ambitious goals, reaching 300% growth, and shifting from founder-led sales to building a structured sales team. They explore the evolving product strategy, team dynamics, and the delicate balance of expansion and focus. Kurt also shares why reducing churn became a top priority—and how the sales flywheel reshaped his thinking. Tune in for a candid look at what it takes to grow an early-stage agency without losing momentum. 

Key Points From This Episode: 

[00:00:04] Karl welcomes Kurt Schnakenberg back to the show. 

[00:00:48] Kurt shares that adbm.agency is tracking toward 300% growth this year. 

[00:01:15] They discuss the mindset behind ambitious goal setting and growth. 

[00:02:13] adbm.agency's current placement numbers and where they stand against targets. 

[00:02:46] Why Kurt still supports audacious goal setting despite falling short. 

[00:04:24] Transitioning away from founder-led sales and the lessons learned. 

[00:05:33] Kurt explains the importance of consistency and momentum in sales. 

[00:08:26] How autonomy and team ownership are shaping adbm.agency’s sales structure. 

[00:09:15] The reality of building teams with varying strengths and ambitions. 

[00:09:58] Kurt discusses expanding beyond the building industry and offshore staff. 

[00:12:22] Piloting domestic recruiting as a potential service line. 

[00:13:38] Karl reflects on how new service lines complicate operations. 

[00:14:51] What worked: pausing growth to reduce churn and invest in quality. 

[00:16:03] Why businesses can’t fix everything at once—and shouldn’t try to. 

[00:16:55] Kurt explains shifting toward higher ROI expectations for investments. 

[00:19:00] How a simple income statement reframed internal decision-making. 

[00:19:38] Kurt recommends reading on the sales flywheel from Harvard Business Review. 

[00:51:13] Final thoughts on resilience, persistence, and taking action to grow your agency. 

Links: 

• adbm.agency: https://adbm.agency/ 
• Kurt Schnakenberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtschnakenberg/ 
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes 
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com  

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes reconnects with Chris Gwinn, founder of Midwest CFO, to explore what he's learned in the first year of building his fractional CFO firm. Chris shares how refining driver-based forecasting models and digging into operational KPIs have helped his clients make smarter strategic decisions. The conversation covers the evolution of his sales approach, challenges in bookkeeping, and the critical importance of accurate gross margins. Chris also outlines how he's scaling the business and reflects on personal growth through parenting and reading.

Key Points From This Episode

[00:01:16] Chris reflects on key learnings from his first year in business.

[00:03:56] The power of using operational KPIs to drive more accurate forecasts.

[00:06:15] How conversations with prospects have shifted to focus on metrics and drivers.

[00:07:54] Refining service delivery based on better understanding client needs.

[00:08:52] Chris defines his updated target client profile.

[00:09:26] Early steps toward hiring and scaling Midwest CFO’s team structure.

[00:10:43] Common shortcomings in bookkeeping and chart of accounts setup.

[00:13:02] Why breaking out revenue and costs improves financial decision-making.

[00:16:46] Gross margin as a key metric for growth and acquisition readiness.

[00:17:29] Current acquisition channels and early marketing efforts.

[00:18:24] Chris’s roadmap for scaling, including hiring and sales engine development.

[00:19:57] The value of 90-day planning and long-term clarity.

[00:20:36] Chris shares a favorite recent book: Software as a Science.

[00:22:00] Karl recommends Ego is the Enemy and reflects on personal challenges with ego.

[00:23:18] Closing thoughts and gratitude for the conversation.

• Links:
• Chris Gwinn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-gwinn-cfa-96383b26/
• Midwest CFO: https://midwestcfo.com/
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Jon Schroeder, founder and CEO of Joy Fluent. Jon shares the journey behind BrewJoy, a new plant-based product designed to prevent coffee-related teeth stains, and digs into his broader mission of improving wellness through everyday habits. He reflects on lessons from past ventures in data privacy and elder care, his MBA experience at Kellogg, and the mental demands of entrepreneurship. The conversation probes the contrast between corporate and entrepreneurial leadership, managing decision fatigue, and the power of focus. Tune in for a candid, grounded look at what it really takes to build and lead a startup.

Key Points From This Episode

[00:00:42] Jon Schroeder introduces Joy Fluent and its first product, BrewJoy.

[00:02:33] Background on Jon’s prior startup Datum and challenges with data monetization.

[00:06:10] Tackling senior loneliness through transportation access solutions.

[00:10:25] Lessons from failed ventures and entrepreneurial timing.

[00:12:44] Jon’s decision to pursue an MBA and how it supported his entrepreneurship.

[00:16:38] The value of elite networks, especially for underrepresented founders.

[00:18:56] Differentiating leadership from management in corporate vs startup contexts.

[00:23:41] The importance of adaptability in entrepreneurial management.

[00:27:05] The concept of magnetism in entrepreneurial leadership.

[00:31:11] Jon reflects on building emotional intelligence and influence.

[00:34:22] Corporate vs startup hiring: micromanagement vs trust.

[00:38:04] Cultural control and hiring involvement in different business types.

[00:42:01] Mental and emotional stakes in entrepreneurship vs corporate roles.

[00:46:10] Reducing decision fatigue through systems and habits.

[00:48:59] Focus as a superpower: narrowing 2025 goals to two priorities.

[00:51:48] Long-term vision for Joy Fluent beyond oral care.

Links:

• Jon Schroeder on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-schroeder/
• Joy Fluent: https://drinkjoy.com/
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com 

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Jake Ward, founder and CEO of Data Protocol, a platform supporting developer education and experience. Jake shares his path from public affairs to tech entrepreneurship, including lessons from founding a trade association and working with major players like Google, Meta, and Intel. The conversation explores the complexities of developer engagement, sales in enterprise environments, and how empathy-driven design can deliver 30x industry engagement. Jake also introduces "experience operations"—a strategic framework to reduce friction and increase value across user interactions.

[00:00:00] Jake introduces himself and his dual role as CEO and utility player at Data Protocol.

[00:02:10] Jake’s early insights into developer support while running the Application Developers Alliance.

[00:05:57] Explanation of Data Protocol’s platform, design, and high engagement rates.

[00:08:00] The initial platform vision and disconnect between developer needs and company support.

[00:10:57] Transition to “experience operations” and reducing friction in user interactions.

[00:12:37] Why Data Protocol builds its own content and the weaknesses of other developer video platforms.

[00:15:06] Challenges with white-labeling and maintaining high-quality engagement.

[00:17:26] Enterprise teams misaligned under marketing vs. product and its impact on DevRel.

[00:19:00] Jake’s background and how past roles helped him close early big-name clients.

[00:23:35] Learning enterprise sales without a traditional sales background.

[00:28:14] Rethinking the offer to support a broader customer base and scale sales.

[00:32:08] Misalignment between platform fit and developer ecosystem maturity.

[00:34:19] How Jake builds long-term enterprise relationships through strategic conversations.

[00:38:23] Maturing as a founder and shifting from short-term wins to long-term partnerships.

[00:40:41] Jake’s leap into entrepreneurship and the emotional and mental toll of building a company.

[00:47:01] Caring deeply about everything as a founder—and why it never gets easier.

[00:50:13] Avoiding false accountability and democratizing decision-making inside the team.

[00:53:54] Books that shaped Jake's thinking, including The Messy Middle and Isaacson’s Steve Jobs.

[00:57:14] Why you shouldn’t start a company unless you feel compelled to make it real.

Links:

• Jake Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacobmward/ 
• Data Protocol: https://dataprotocol.com/
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Derek Delost, who shares his path from digital marketing burnout to agency ownership through the acquisition of DotYeti. Derek explains why starting from scratch wasn’t the right fit for him, how he navigated the risks of buying a business, and the realities of leading a team after a transition. He dives into the emotional and strategic challenges of the process—from deal structure to team restructuring—and how he’s positioning DotYeti to thrive in an evolving creative market. A must-listen for agency operators and aspiring business buyers alike.

Key Points From This Episode:

[00:00:50] Derek introduces DotYeti and its flat-rate graphic design model.

[00:02:02] Derek’s early career in digital marketing and creative collaboration.

[00:04:06] Burnout, tech transitions, and reevaluating life goals post-2020.

[00:05:07] How two books reshaped Derek’s view on entrepreneurship.

[00:07:53] Struggles with freelancing and why zero-to-one wasn’t appealing.

[00:10:14] The emotional cost of starting from scratch vs. buying a business.

[00:13:46] Why Derek originally didn’t want an agency—and what changed.

[00:15:18] Exploring “eternally profitable” service businesses.

[00:17:31] Why industry alignment and passion matter more than spreadsheets.

[00:19:24] Reframing the agency model as timeless, not obsolete.

[00:21:08] Building broker relationships that surfaced DotYeti early.

[00:23:03] LOIs, NDAs, and the initial deal structure.

[00:25:33] De-risking: financing, legal teams, and reputable intermediaries.

[00:28:06] The challenge of bank financing as a Canadian buyer.

[00:33:22] The importance of alignment with the selling founders.

[00:36:02] The risk of treating the transaction as purely transactional.

[00:37:39] “Burning the boats”: The emotional cliff of closing the deal.

[00:40:11] Breaking the news to a 40-person remote team.

[00:44:08] The CEO seat: urgency, decision fatigue, and communication.

[00:47:23] Navigating transparency and emotional weight in leadership.

[00:48:09] Strategic changes: moving away from “unlimited” design model.

[00:50:06] Restructuring the team to support higher-quality offerings.

[00:52:09] Finding DotYeti’s position in a saturated, AI-impacted market.

[00:54:10] Why service businesses can’t be truly passive income.

[00:55:06] AI isn’t a threat—it’s a tool in skilled hands.

[00:58:19] Book recommendation: How Brands Grow by Byron Sharp.

Links:

• Derek Delost on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derekdelost
• DotYeti: https://www.dotyeti.com/book-demo
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com 

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Christian Banach, a growth consultant for marketing agencies with a background that spans concert promotions, celebrity events, and enterprise sales. Christian shares how he started an events agency in high school and grew it into a 15-year business working with artists like Lady Gaga and Pitbull. He explains how those early lessons in relationship-building now inform his agency consulting work. The two explore how founders can build predictable deal flow, what it means to niche intentionally, and why long-term business development strategies outperform quick wins. Tune in for tactical advice on becoming the go-to partner in your niche.

Key Points From This Episode:

[00:00:0] Christian Banach shares how he started an events business in high school that grew into a celebrity-focused agency.

[00:03:31] A marketing agency engagement sparks Christian’s pivot into experiential and event marketing.

[00:04:47] Transition from concert promoter to business development expert in marketing agencies.

[00:06:21] Relationship-building as a growth lever — and how Christian got access to A-list celebrities.

[00:09:54] Why deal flow has slowed for many agencies and how to proactively address it.

[00:11:46] The danger of relying too heavily on referrals to drive new business.

[00:13:07] Importance of narrowing your agency’s focus to specific problems and audiences.

[00:15:29] Overcoming the fear of specialization while still leaving room for flexibility.

[00:17:39] Building a target account list and identifying ideal client profiles.

[00:20:18] Creating thought leadership content with original research to drive brand awareness.

[00:23:15] Tactical breakdown of how to conduct industry surveys and leverage them for outreach.

[00:25:02] Why long-term marketing is essential—and why short-term hacks don’t scale.

[00:28:16] The challenge of connecting with the right decision-makers in large organizations.

[00:30:17] Using multi-touch engagement and content to reach both influencers and buyers.

[00:31:08] How roundtables and virtual events can act as powerful lead-generation tools.

[00:33:05] Understanding what your prospects want beyond just your service offering.

[00:34:36] The reality of founder-led sales in early-stage agencies.

[00:36:04] Splitting the roles of lead generation and deal closing for better efficiency.

[00:37:53] Recommended budget for agency sales and marketing spend (8–12% of revenue).

[00:40:59] Risks and strategies around ownership of client relationships as you scale.

[00:43:22] How agencies can grow existing accounts through proactive ideation and internal marketing.

[00:47:12] The value of rediscovery calls and virtual face time with clients.

[00:48:32] Christian’s book recommendation: Winning Ugly by Brad Gilbert, and how it shaped his mindset.

[00:51:13] Final thoughts on resilience, persistence, and taking action to grow your agency.

Links:

• Christian Banach on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christianbanach
• Christian Banach: https://christianbanach.com/
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Jesse Gilmore, founder of Niche in Control and author of The Agency Owner’s Guide to Freedom. Jesse shares his journey from hustle-heavy entrepreneurship to creating a structured program designed to help agency owners reclaim their time and build scalable, founder-independent businesses. They discuss the triggers that lead owners to rethink their roles, how to measure real freedom in business, and why defining success beyond revenue is essential. Jesse also opens up about building his team, recovering from personal loss, and staying aligned with a long-term purpose.

Key Points From This Episode:

[00:00:30] Introduction to Jesse Gilmore and his background as a half-marathon runner and entrepreneur.

[00:01:39] Jesse’s inspiration for writing The Agency Owner’s Guide to Freedom.

[00:02:52] The evolution of agency founders and the Leverage for Growth method.

[00:04:11] Challenges of working with small agency owners and how Niche in Control addresses them.

[00:06:29] Life events as pivotal motivators for agency transformation.

[00:07:57] Rethinking success as freedom, not revenue.

[00:10:22] Why personal freedom must come before financial freedom.

[00:11:24] Breakdown of Jesse’s program structure, including coaching, collaboration, and training.

[00:14:58] Typical bottlenecks for agency growth and where founders often get stuck.

[00:17:12] The personal transformation required to grow beyond hustle mode.

[00:19:17] Applying the 80/20 principle to reclaim time and scale smarter.

[00:21:05] Helping founders identify their unique ability and redesign how they use their time.

[00:24:16] Creating a life event and identity shift to anchor behavior change.

[00:27:13] Measuring business freedom by time away and founder independence.

[00:30:36] What founders should do with the freedom they gain.

[00:32:01] Expanding goals beyond the business into body, being, and balance.

[00:35:24] The CQ (Consistency → Quality → Confidence → Quantity) framework.

[00:38:47] Building mastery through sustained creative practice.

[00:39:59] Jesse’s evolving team and operations structure.

[00:44:16] The impact of personal loss on business clarity and mission.

[00:45:56] Book recommendations: 10x is Easier than 2x, Who Not How, Four Disciplines of Execution, The War of Art.

[00:47:33] Where to learn more about Jesse’s events, book, and program.

Links:

• Jesse Gilmore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessepgilmore
• Niche in Control: https://www.nicheincontrol.com
• Monthly events: https://events.nicheincontrol.com
• Free Guide: https://www.nicheincontrol.com/free-guide
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes

Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes talks with Greg Henry, founder of Push10, about his evolution from solo freelancer to leading multiple specialized agency brands. Greg shares how a focus on higher-quality clients and strong branding work helped him scale, the lessons learned from targeting mission-driven organizations, and how splitting into niche sub-agencies opened new growth paths. They explore challenges in balancing resources across brands, navigating client budgets, and building recurring revenue. Greg also discusses the role of SEO in client acquisition, the importance of maintaining strategic partnerships with existing clients, and his long-term vision for a holding company structure. 

Key Points From This Episode: 

[00:00:00] Introduction to Greg Henry and Push10’s focus on nonprofits and social good organizations. 

[00:01:26] Moving from small clients to enterprise-level work by focusing on quality and strategy.  

[00:02:36] Lessons from adapting to disruptive tools like Squarespace and AI. 

[00:06:37] Greg’s early career path from mass communications to founding an agency. 

[00:09:31] Decision to hire, specialize, and expand into mission-driven branding. 

[00:11:43] Launching two additional niche brands for food & beverage and AEC clients. 

[00:13:40] Advantages of diversification across industries during downturns. 

[00:15:45] Pre-qualifying nonprofit leads to ensure budget alignment. 

[00:18:22] Narrowing niches within the mission-driven space to find higher-budget clients. 

[00:21:29] Starting with targeted landing pages before launching full niche brands. 

[00:22:26] Marketing challenges of running three agencies with shared resources. 

[00:24:47] Leveraging the parent agency’s scale alongside niche expertise in sales. 

[00:26:26] Early client acquisition via direct mail to agencies and using “we” instead of  

“I.” 

[00:28:42] Using SEO to dominate search terms in specialized niches. 

[00:30:53] How to identify and choose a niche based on data from past projects. 

[00:33:57] Retaining branding/web clients with maintenance packages and strategic check-ins. 

[00:37:50] Using six-month strategy reviews to reduce churn and upsell projects.

[00:39:53] Splitting business development focus between new clients and upselling existing ones. 

[00:42:16] Encouraging the whole team to help with sales and brand promotion. 

[00:44:25] Greg’s long-term vision of a holding company with multiple specialized agencies. 

[00:47:41] Equity-based managing partners as a solution for scaling multiple brands. 

[00:48:28] Book recommendation: Profit First by Mike Michalowicz. 

Links: 

• Greg Henry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-henry-push10 
• Push10: https://www.push10.com/ 
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes 
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com  

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Greg Hickman, founder of Alt Agency. Greg shares his journey from running a full-service marketing automation agency to building a lean education and consulting company focused on helping agencies productize their services. They explore why productizing isn’t the enemy of creativity, how agency owners can structure a “service ladder” to match different buyer types, and the importance of self-awareness when defining success. Greg also breaks down the pitfalls of chasing scale without intention and why YouTube became his content platform of choice.

Key Points From This Episode:



[00:01:06] Greg Hickman’s background and the early evolution of Alt Agency

[00:04:38] First leveraged offer and shift toward productized consulting

[00:06:28] The “service ladder” and different types of agency buyers

[00:10:04] A PPC agency example of tiered offerings across buyer types

[00:13:34] Delivering the same outcome via different vehicles

[00:18:46] What holds agencies back from productizing services

[00:20:33] Common resistance among creative agency owners

[00:23:48] Fears around limiting client work and missing opportunities

[00:24:40] The influence of “Built to Sell” and the spectrum of productization

[00:27:02] Scaling back from 13-person team to a leaner model

[00:29:12] Creating a business that supports your ideal lifestyle

[00:31:38] Avoiding blind emulation of others’ definitions of success

[00:34:28] The value of entrepreneurial community and shared experience

[00:36:37] Greg’s hot take on LinkedIn vs. YouTube for client acquisition

[00:39:29] Picking content platforms that play to your strengths

[00:43:54] Book recommendation: Die With Zero by Bill Perkins

[00:47:52] Rethinking the size and complexity of success

Links:

• Greg Hickman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregoryjhickman
• Alt Agency: https://altagency.com
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com

In this episode of Retained Trust, host Karl Hughes speaks with Ross Brown, founder of Flex Ops and former managing director of a fast-scaling influencer marketing agency. Ross shares lessons from helping agencies scale past early growth hurdles, revealing how fear, overcommitment, and lack of clarity often keep owners stuck below the $1 million mark. Together, they explore the emotional and operational challenges of niching down, letting go of difficult clients, and building consistent business development practices. Ross also reflects on his own journey into consulting and the mindset shift required to build a business that supports your personal goals.

Key Points From This Episode:

[00:00:00] Ross's early experience growing an agency from 3 to 40 people.

[00:02:49] Foundational reasons behind rapid agency growth.

[00:04:48] Why staying in your lane gave them a competitive edge.

[00:05:14] What prevents agencies from niching down.

[00:06:14] Fear of missing out vs. long-term growth strategy.

[00:07:45] How founders often unknowingly stall their own growth.

[00:10:12] The courage it takes to ask for help as an agency owner.

[00:11:53] The emotional attachment that stops owners from letting go of problem clients

[00:14:35] Typical signs that it’s time to drop unfit clients.

[00:17:00] The dangers of inconsistent business development.

[00:18:26] Contradictions between stated goals and behavior.

[00:20:59] Why BD must happen even when your pipeline is full.

[00:22:56] Creating deal flow that enables long-term client filtering.

[00:23:40] Why closing key clients can take years.

[00:26:38] The long-term mindset required to build client relationships.

[00:27:29] Can an agency ever be truly passive?

[00:28:52] Why many owners don’t actually know what they want.

[00:31:09] How lack of direction shows up in daily operations.

[00:32:14] What Flex Ops looks like today and Ross’s motivation behind it.

[00:35:46] Why Ross intentionally stays lean and focused.

[00:38:46] Long-term ambition to eventually run another agency.

[00:40:59] The single biggest blocker to scaling past $1M.

[00:43:19] Owners who succeed tend to take full responsibility.

[00:43:34] Ross’s book recommendations:

[00:46:27] Where to learn more about Ross and Flex Ops.

Links:

• Ross Brown on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rnabrown/?originalSubdomain=ie
• Flex Ops: http://flexops.co/
• Karl Hughes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes
• Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant: https://thepodcastconsultant.com