RIMScast

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

The term Wicked Problems was originally coined in an academic paper authored by design theorists Horst Rittel and Melvin Webber over 50 years ago. While there are many attributes that define a Wicked problem, generally they are based on problems that are fast evolving with no clear solution or where the solution generates further problems and a level of residual risk that is potentially worse than the initial issue itself. Fast forward to today, Risk Managers and Leaders try and grapple with the reality of a Volatile, Uncertain, Complex, Ambiguous, and Digital (VUCAD) world that challenges us with more and more Wicked Problems. In this session, we will explore how Risk Managers and Leaders can better cope with and wrangle wicked problems to create successful outcomes.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] RISKWORLD 2024 will be held in sunny San Diego, California, May 5th through May 8th. Booth and sponsorship sales are open. Member registration opens November 2023. Public registration opens December 2023. Visit RIMS.org/riskworld for more information.

[:33] About today's episode, a discussion of wicked problems with Dr. Gav Schneider.

[:55] The RIMS CRMP is the only competency-based risk management credential that matters because earning the certification shows employers and recruiters that you have the skills necessary to manage risk and create value for your organization. [1:15] Several Exam Prep virtual workshops are coming up, starting with December 13th and 14th with former RIMS president, Chris Mandel. On January 13th, 20th, and 27th, 2024, the RIMS CRMP Exam Virtual Workshop will be presented in conjunction with Conrad Clark Nigeria.

[1:38] The RIMS CRMP-FED Exam Prep Virtual Workshop will be held January 30th and February 1st. That's a two-day course. Visit the certification page on RIMS.org for more information. A link is on this episode's show notes.

[1:56] RIMS is one of the educational development partners with AFERM, the Association for Federal Enterprise Ris Management. Two AFERM leaders joined RIMScast last week for a brief interview during the ERM Conference. This is a last call about AFERM's upcoming SUMMIT.

[2:17] Join fellow ERM practitioners at the 2023 AFERM Summit Training. The theme is "Collaborate and Celebrate: Weaving ERM into the Fabric of Government." The ERM SUMMIT will take place in Washington, D.C. at the Walter E. Washington Convention Center and virtually on November 28th and 29th. Links are in the show notes.

[2:41] A Shout out the the RIMS New Zealand and Pacific Island Chapter and Marsh Australia and New Zealand, who welcome you to Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk on February 12, 2024 at the Pullman Hotel in Aukland, NZ to discuss the critical role of risk management in today's uncertain world. A link is in the notes.

[3:25] We have one of the featured speakers on RIMScast today, Dr. Gav Schneider. Dr. Schneider will present on "Wrangling Wicked Problems: The Ultimate Risk Management Challenge." Dr. Gav Schneider is with the Centre for the Study of Wicked Problems and he was the Risk Management Institute of Australasia's 2023 Risk Leader of the Year.

[3:50] Dr. Schneider is the creator of the Presilience Approach. Dr. Gav Schneider, welcome to RIMScast! Dr. Schneider joins RIMScast from Brisbane, Australia, and is originally South African. He moved to Australia nearly 20 years ago. Dr. Schneider is with the ISRM ANZ CSWP (Center for the Study of Wicked Problems).

[5:07] Dr. Schneider started his career in martial arts in South Africa. He is an 8th Degree Black Belt. He taught self-defense and defensive tactics. He transitioned to close protection, bodyguarding, and executive protection. He set up his first business in South Africa, 24 years ago and sold it in 2014.

[5:36] On the way, Dr. Schneider became fascinated with decision-making and risk management, as he kept seeing it being done so badly, even when there were life-or-death consequences attached. He looked at corporate risk management and how it intersects with compliance and how performance measures come into play.

[6:00] Dr. Schneider became interested in practical application combined with sound academic theory, primarily focusing on the way humans make decisions. He is known as the Human-centric Risk Guy. He has taught a post-graduate program on the psychology of risk for the past seven years. It's been great for his learning, as well.

[7:06] The Institute for Strategic Risk Management is an international group that's looking at how strategy, risk, and management intersect. ISRM has been collaborating with RIMS NZ for a couple of years.

[7:21] The first paper on Wicked Problems was published 50 years ago. The fact that the world is so hypercomplex and we are bombarded with information all the time has made the study of wicked problems quite an important area.

[7:56] We've become good at process- and compliance-based risk management. From the Industrial Revolution, we've gotten good at organizing and arranging things but now we're moving out of management-centricity. In a world with a high degree of control and certainty, process- and compliance-based risk management works.

[8:43] In the modern world, we are bombarded with uncertainty, quickly changing events, and lack of control because of our hyper-connected systems. Dr. Schneider cites a recent seven-hour telecom outage in Australia. It hurt businesses. In supply-chain management, one supplier having an issue can be catastrophic for many businesses.

[9:22] Certainty and control have eroded, compared to 20 years ago.

[9:38] The difference between a Wicked Problem and a poly-crisis will be covered at the workshop at the RIMS Conference in New Zealand. You need time to understand it. Today's challenges are not one-dimensional risks to manage. A crisis evolves over one variable. If your team is coping, it's not a crisis.

[11:39] When lots of crises happen at once, the support structures we have in place become overwhelmed. The interconnections between them become overwhelmed. A poly-crisis made up of lots of Wicked Problems. A standard crisis might just be us being overwhelmed.

[12:41] Dr. Schneider says we are all risk practitioners. When making decisions, we weigh out the likelihood of success or failure. Dr. Schneider gives a few examples of the risk management of self-defense. In South Africa, when he had the self-defense business, there were 78 reported carjackings a day.

[14:04] A lady called Dr. Schneider's self-defense business to learn how to defend against carjackings because she had been carjacked four times. The carjacker had hidden behind the same bush four times. She needed to cut down that bush!

[14:42] When people called about close protection and security, they started with "Money is no object." That high standard lowered when they were advised to hire two cars and four bodyguards; "Can't I get by with one car and two guards?" Suddenly, the price to protect their lives was half of the amount they were recommended.

[16:13] If you don't have culture, engagement, and performance right, none of your other systems work. How do we achieve efficacy and sustained high performance during business as usual and how do we create the ability to thrive in a disruption not just survive? That has been Dr. Schneider's study since 2008 for his PhD.

[16:40] In running the psychology of risk program, Dr. Schneider has seen smart, capable graduates become frustrated, doing everything they can on the process/compliance side while people they work with feel that risk management is the "handbrake to happiness," keeping them from achieving what they want to do. [17:06] Dr. Schneider and the Centre for the Study of Wicked Problems want to "shift the dial" from negative outcome management to seizing and creating opportunity as a positive outcome. They developed the concept of "presilience," a term Dr. Schneider coined.

[17:46] The Centre for the Study of Wicked Problems was launched this year as a collaboration with the ISRM head office in the UK, and in NZ and AU. Fifty years after the first paper on wicked problems, you don't see wicked problems management getting nearly enough "airplay" or understanding in the world of conventional risk management.

[18:12] Usually, the wicked problems cause pain for risk leaders and risk managers because those are the problems where the conventional systems don't work that well.

[18:25] RIMS plug time! Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. December 7th starts the three-part course, Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management, which will be led by our friend Pat Saporito.

[18:48] Fundamentals of Insurance returns on December 12th and 13th. It will be led by our good friend Gail Kyomura. Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[19:04] On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today's Volatile Risk Environment.

[19:18] On December 1st at 7:00 a.m. Eastern, Prudent Insurance Brokers Private Ltd. returns to discuss Business Interruption. On December 7, 2023, our friends at TÜV SÜD GRC return to discuss Engineering Resilience: Strategies for Preventing Machinery Breakdown.

[19:36] On December 12th, Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk with Riskonnect. On December 14th, Aon will be Addressing Today's Risks While Preparing for the Risks of Tomorrow.

[19:50] Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[20:14] Dr. Schneider's session is from 4:10 p.m. to 4:50 p.m. called "Wrangling Wicked Problems: The Ultimate Risk Management Challenge." It will touch upon control efficacy measurement and risk intelligence. Risk intelligence is the human ability to make great decisions, grabbing upside opportunity and minimizing downside negative impact.

[21:48] Risk intelligence is the living application of risk management as opposed to process-based application of risk management. Lots of smart people make terrible decisions because they blindly follow a process, they blindly follow a policy that's out-of-date, or they make no decision because they panic under pressure.

[22:27] Not doing something, especially in a crisis or poly-crisis, is often worse than making the wrong call. Even the wrong call creates momentum, which gives you learning, to see that didn't work, so you can tweak it or do something different.

[22:43] There are fundamental differences in the way to apply wicked-problems-based risk management and the way to apply process-based or compliance-based risk management. They require different skill sets. Process- and compliance-based risk management requires an auditor compliance-driven mindset that loves rules.

[23:47] Epidemics, geopolitical instability, solar flares, and other things that are going to be significantly challenging for us, that are bigger than us, are very difficult to solve. Mist organizations set a strategic plan and then assume risk management will help them achieve the plan.

[24:10] If we identified wicked problems early, we could forecast which strategic plans are going to be blocked by them and we could use a different skill set to deal with them. That skill set is highly-evolved risk intelligence; people who are good at dealing with uncertainty, achieving objectives in different ways, and are great communicators.

[24:36] Dr. Schneider has a list of things he will share when he runs sessions. We want to be thinking of the risk leader of the future. Most risk managers don't manage risk; they manage a process or set up a policy that other people in a business have to manage or own.

[24:59] Who's leading risk? People making decisions that have negative or positive consequences are risk leaders. We need to build dual skill sets. MBAs and Public Policy degrees teach to be good at process and compliance. Wicked problems require highly evolved emotional intelligence, influence skills, and pattern recognition.

[25:50] In the session that Dr. Schneider will introduce in New Zealand, he will be covering some of those skill sets, and how to build them. His firm hope is that these teachings will create the risk leaders of the future that will enable a society that thrives through disruption and can endure when things go wrong.

[26:26] Dr. Schneider talks about the psychology of risk work. He believes people learn by hearing, learn more by hearing and seeing, and learn even more if they are also entertained. So it's about engaging the audience to have significant takeaways that make their work life better and enable their efficacy in their job to increase.

[27:05] Dr. Schneider's presentation style is informal. He walks around and gets involved with the audience. He doesn't separate himself from the audience with a podium. Because they give their time and resources to listen to him, he gives them something that makes them more effective in their jobs and ultimately helps their organization.

[29:06] Dr. Schneider has a unique hybrid South African-Australian accent. People either find him easy to listen to or can't understand a word he says!

[29:44] Dr. Schneider shares his thoughts for the RIMScast audience. We're in a challenging era. It's almost overwhelming in its opportunity. We can integrate technology and leverage knowledge and connections in ways we've never been able to do. There are a few things we need to remember.

[30:17] We are not over COVID-19 yet. It still has effects on social cohesion and personal interaction. In many cases, people were shut down from other humans for an extended time. Their skills of collaboration, teamwork, and empathy have eroded and they haven't returned yet.

[30:39] We're seeing that now with an increase in things like workplace violence, active shooting incidents, and geopolitical war. Part of the global challenges we have as risk leaders is that people are not thinking about the skills for solving wicked problems. Most risk leaders had a tough time through COVID-19 and need to refresh.

[31:34] We're now in an era of disruption. Systems we've built over the last few hundred years are not able to cope with the complicated and interwoven variables we're facing. We need to be ready. Dr. Schneider's message is to build your skills, maintain your mental and physical health, and find your balance. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

[32:02] Dr. Schneider says things are going to continue to be challenging. Increased interest rates and fiscal moves by governments to try to cap inflation is a good example of a wicked problem. People in financial stress get desperate and crime, violence, and fraud go up. Learn to look at the interconnected world.

[32:52] Cybercrime is here to stay. Risk leaders need to get comfortable with the virtual world. AI comes up repeatedly at every risk conference. If businesses and business leaders are talking about it, it's going to be the problem of risk leaders and risk managers. It's either a problem or an opportunity, depending on how you look at it.

[33:50] The way criminals take advantage of vulnerabilities in our systems is very different from the way protectors like risk leaders look at them. A convicted criminal told Dr. Schneider that he's never seen a computer or a computer program spend time in jail. AI and tech are still driven by humans. It's a human problem or opportunity.

[34:32] The more tech we get, the more human-centricity we need. The deep thinking is going to have to be done by humans. We have to manage the opportunity and the risk of AI and tech simultaneously.

[35:04] Justin is excited for anyone who gets to go and see Embrace the Unkown: Unleashing the Power of Risk at the Pullman Hotel in Aukland, NZ, February 12, 2024.

[35:44] Special thanks to Dr. Gav Schneider. On February 12, 2024, Dr. Schneider will be a presenter at the day-long live conference Embrace the Unknown, which will be at the Pullman Hotel in Aukland, NZ. That event is hosted by Marsh and the outstanding RIS NZ and PI Chapter. The link is in this episode's show notes. Check it out and register!

[36:07] More coverage leading up to this event will follow on RIMScast.

[36:15] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[36:39] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[37:22] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[37:47] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[38:03] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[38:24] Thank you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk | Hosted Live & In-Person by RIMS NZ & PI | Feb. 12, 2024

2023 AFERM Summit Training | Nov 28–29, 2023

Riskworld 2024 — San Diego, CA | May 5–8, 2024

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

RIMS Risk Management Magazine: ERM Special Edition 2023

RIMS Webinars:

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today's Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023

Business Interruption | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. | Dec. 1, 2023

Engineering Resilience: Strategies for Preventing Machinery Breakdown | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD | Dec. 7, 2023

Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Dec. 12, 2023

Addressing Today's Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow | Sponsored by Aon | Dec. 14, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars

Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management | Dec 7

Fundamentals of Insurance | Dec 12

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

All RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops – Including Chris Mandel's Dec 13–14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Harnessing Innovation's Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat"

"ERM's Value Proposition with Chris Mandel"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization" | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

"Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage" | Sponsored by Fleet Response

"Cyberrisk Outlook 2023" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market" | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

"Insuring the Future of the Environment" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors" | Sponsored by Zurich

"The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships" | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

"Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023" | Sponsored by Allianz

"Analytics in Action" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why" | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

"Zurich's Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023"

"ESG Through the Risk Lens" | Sponsored by Riskonnect

"A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market" | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Chris Mandel!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

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About our guest

Dr. Gav Schneider

Summarized BIO — Keynote Speaker, Director, CEO, Academic:

Dr Gavriel (Gav) Schneider (CCRO, RPP, FISRM, FIML, FIS (SA), FGIA, FARPI, MAIPIO, CPP)

IFSEC 2019, 20, 21 and 22 top twenty global influencer — Thought Leadership

RMIA Risk Leader of the Year 2023 and Risk Consultant of the Year 2019

Dr Gav is an acknowledged business leader and specialist in the field of human-based risk management and the psychology of risk. He is the creator of the Presilience® approach (recognized in the prestigious AFR Most Innovative Awards in 2021). He is a serial entrepreneur and has been running his own businesses since 2001. He has conducted business in over 17 countries and provided a wide range of services for a very diverse client base, ranging from heads of state to school teachers. He is a leading academic and subject matter expert in his field and is a much sought-after International speaker. In Addition to being the RMIA's Risk Leader of the Year in 2023, and Risk Consultant of the Year in 2019, Dr. Gav is the only Australian to make the IFSEC Global Influencers' top 20 thought Leaders list for the last 4 years in a row.

The Institute of Strategic Risk Management ANZ

CSWP (Centre for the Study of Wicked Problems) The Centre for the Study of Wicked Problems is an international academic institution dedicated to facilitating effective research, analysis, and solutions to the wicked problems faced by our organizations, governments, and communities. The Centre brings together stakeholders, academics, policymakers, and practitioners with one common platform to develop effective frameworks and strategies to address multifaceted challenges.

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

I started my career in South Africa. I kicked everything off with the world of martial arts. So I'm an eighth-degree black belt and that's how I got started, teaching self-defense and defensive tactics. — Dr. Gav Schneider

This year is the 50th anniversary of when the first paper on Wicked Problems was penned. The fact that the world is hypercomplex and we are bombarded with information all the time has made the study of wicked problems quite an important area. — Dr. Gav Schneider

It's usually, the wicked problems that are causing such pain for risk leaders and risk managers because it's where the conventional systems don't work that well. — Dr. Gav Schneider

If businesses and business leaders are talking about AI, it's going to be our problem. It's either a problem or an opportunity, it depends on how you look at it. — Dr. Gav Schneider

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews several notable attendees of the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, Colorado. First is Fernanda Gutierrez Franco, a student at the University of Colorado. Fernanda speaks of the risk management program at the university. Next are two high-ranking AFERM members, Marianne Roth, and Bobbi-Jo Pankaj, who describe the similarities between AFERM and RIMS. They also speak of the Summit, AFERM’s Conference. Finally, Justin catches up with Dr. Innocent Uzombah, MBA, the Registrar General/CEO of the Chartered Institute of Loan & Risk Management of Nigeria. Dr. Uzombah hopes to bring the risk management body of knowledge in Nigeria to current standards. Justin wraps the episode with some of the benefits of attending the RIMS ERM Conference.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:28] The segments of today’s episode were recorded live at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, Colorado. Live event episodes are Justin’s favorites. They capture the energy of RIMS events!

[:43] Justin sends a quick shout-out to the RIMS New Zealand Pacific Island Chapter and Marsh Australia and New Zealand, who welcome you to Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk, a one-day event on February 12, 2024 at the Pullman Hotel in Auckland, NZ.

[1:07] It will be a gathering of experts, thought leaders, and professionals from various industries to explore and discuss the critical role of risk management in today’s dynamic and uncertain world. There will be sessions on AI, Resilience, and Adaptability, highlighted by case studies and insights. See the link in this episode’s show notes. 

[1:28] Next week on RIMScast, one of the speakers will be joining us! Be sure to tune in.

[1:34] It’s never too early to talk about RISKWORLD 2024! Save the date, May 5th–8th, 2024 in sunny San Diego, California. Booth and sponsorship sales are open. Member registration opens this month, November 2023 and public registration opens in December 2023. Visit RIMS.org/RISKWORLD to learn all about it.

[2:09] We have a range of perspectives on today’s episode of RIMScast. Our first perspective comes from a soon-to-be rising star in the risk profession, Fernanda Gutierrez Franco, a student at the University of Colorado. She is very involved in the risk management program and risk management groups at the school.

[2:32] Fernanda was one of the contestants for ERM Squares. Justin caught up with Fernanda in the ballroom to hear from her how students are seeing the risk profession and what her career goals are.

[2:48] Fernanda Gutierrez Franco, welcome to RIMScast! Fernanda started college with a biology major for pre-med or nursing. It wasn’t a fit, so she switched to business, hoping to go into management or accounting in the health sector. In one of her classes, guest speakers talked about the RMI program. She booked a meeting and switched her major.

[4:06] Fernanda loves risk management for the opportunities for students and how welcoming everyone is in the industry. Fernanda describes opportunities at CU Denver and RMI events such as spotlights on companies and shadow days to visit companies and shadow the employees. Fernanda describes Gamma Iota Sigma internship events.

[4:59] Many speakers come to talk to classes in panelist events or to talk about risk control and company practices.

[5:19] Fernanda loves ERM for everyone coming together to realize that there has to be something done;  there has to be a risk assessment or something laid out. It’s educating people that aren’t in the risk industry that risk is always here and it’s better to be prepared than to be sorry later.

[5:44] Fernanda will take a course under David Young in her grad program.

[6:05] Fernanda is the Women in Business VP,  the Gamma Iota Sigma VP. She is more involved with the Gamma Iota Sigma group that meets Tuesday morning, weekly and hosts two to three events monthly. They have nine elected officials and are working on getting more members involved in the organization.

[6:49] Fernanda was a moderator at the RIMS Western Regional. It was her first time moderating at a risk event and her first time in front of a huge crowd. It scared her a bit to be standing in front of 400 people, but it was a great opportunity, she got a lot of exposure and the session was fun and informative.

[7:49] Fernanda has had other speaking opportunities, including high school commencement, for around 150 people.

[8:12] Fernanda was one of the first two contestants for the RIMS ERM Squares. She had to agree or disagree with answers from nine seasoned risk professionals on stage.

[9:18] Justin congratulates Fernanda and thanks her for being on RIMScast.

[9:23]  RIMS plug time! Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. December 7th starts the three-part course, Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management, which will be led by our friend Pat Saporito.

[9:44] Fundamentals of Insurance returns on December 12th and 13th. It will be led by our good friend Gail Kyomura. Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[10:01] On November 16th, Nationwide returns to present U.S. Customs Surety Bonds: A Primer for Risk Professionals. On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment.

[10:25] On December 1st at 7:00 a.m. Eastern, Prudent Insurance Brokers Private Ltd. returns to discuss Business Interruption. At 2:00 p.m. Eastern, on December 1st, the RIMS PUBLIC POLICY COMMITTEE PRESENTS: Understanding Nevada’s “Defense Within the Limits” Ban. [10:47]  On December 7, 2023, our friends at TÜV SÜD GRC return to discuss Engineering Resilience: Strategies for Preventing Machinery Breakdown. On December 12th, Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk with Riskonnect. On December 14th, Aon will be Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for the Risks of Tomorrow.

[11:08] Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[11:28] The next guests are Bobbi-Jo Pankaj, 2023 Summit Committee Chair, with AFERM, the Association for Federal Enterprise Risk Management, and Marianne Roth, AFERM President. AFERM was at the ERM Conference.

[11:53] RIMS looks forward to collaborating with them for the 2023 AFERM Summit Training on November 28th and 29th at the Walter E. Washington Convention Center in Washington, D.C. The link is in this episode’s show notes. Bobbi-Jo Pankaj and Marianne Roth, welcome to RIMScast!

[12:18] Justin interviews high-ranking AFERM members, Marianne Roth, and Bobbi-Jo Pankaj, at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023. Marianne says AFERM is the only organization dedicated to government employees who are leaders in ERM. AFERM has about 500 members from state, local, and federal government and the private sector.

[13:07] The members of AFERM facilitate ERM at all levels of government and in the nonprofit sector. Bobbi-Jo says she has a deep love for ERM. AFERM is the Association of Federal Risk Management. AFERM has a lot of activities for state, federal, and local governments and vendors. Bobbi-Jo is a vendor. She works for Guidehouse.

[13:32] Bobbi-Jo is the Summit Chair for 2023. The Summit is very similar to the RIMS ERM Conference. The Summit focuses on weaving ERM into the fabric of government. There are usually 300 or 400 attendees in person and virtually. The Summit is November 28th and 29th.

[13:53] AFERM is heavily tied to the federal government, so if the government shuts down, the event will be moved to a later date. It will still be in Washington, D.C. at the Washington D.C. Convention Center. RIMS is slated to have a presence at the Summit.

[14:22] At the Summit, there’s an exciting vibe; everybody loves ERM. There are speakers from the public and private sectors. There are 21 unique break-out sessions. There are five plenary speakers, including the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service. There’s a lot of networking. Which is one of the best takeaways from the event.

[14:46] There are tools and techniques that members have found successful in the government and the private sector. RIMS will have a booth at AFERM. Bobbi-Jo is excited to get potential new AFERM members from RIMS. A lot of AFERM members have the RIMS CRMP certification and the RIMS CRMP-FED microcertification.

[15:20] Marianne and Justin met online a few years ago after Marianne won the Theodore Roosevelt Excellence in Government Award for Innovation in ERM at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Justin saw it on LinkedIn and reached out to Marianne. They did a Q&A. It is linked in this episode’s show notes.

[15:54] Marianne has been an ERM risk practitioner for almost 10 years. Bobbi-Jo was in risk management first and has also been an ERM risk practitioner for about 10 years, since ERM took off in the federal government.

[16:07] Marianne has seen a lot of maturation of ERM capabilities across federal agencies with organizations focusing on risk appetite and maturing their processes, mitigating risks more effectively. Bobbi-Jo agrees and notes that a lot of AFERM members use the RIMS Risk Maturity Model® to track the maturation of programs.

[16:44] AFERM is an all-volunteer organization. They seek volunteers year-round. Marianne enjoyed the Summit so much, she got involved with AFERM. Bobbi-Jo has been doing the Summit for seven years and took on the Chair position because it is an amazing event. Justin looks forward to seeing them at future RIMS events.

[17:22] Justin’s final guest for this episode is Dr. Innocent Uzombah, MBA, the Registrar General/CEO of the Chartered Institute of Loan & Risk Management of Nigeria. He came from Nigeria to attend the RIMS ERM Conference in Denver and has also been to several more RIMS events. Justin invited him to RIMScast to share his unique perspective.

[18:09] Dr. Innocent Uzombah, welcome to RIMScast! Dr. Uzombah is happy to be here. Dr. Innocent Uzombah has been a risk management practitioner for 13 years. Dr. Uzombah explains what drew him to risk management. He came to the RIMS ERM Conference to improve the body of knowledge in risk management practice in Nigeria.

[19:56] The Chartered Institute of Loan & Risk Management of Nigeria shares ideas and information with offices in Ghana, Cameroon, Kenya, and some other African countries. [20:22] Dr. Innocent Uzombah says the session on Resilience was very good. He enjoyed other sessions, too. He will bring this information to Nigeria to teach others. He says risk management is a void in Africa. His advice to people in Nigeria interested in risk management is to get the right knowledge and education to fill the void.

[21:57] Dr. Innocent Uzombah has attended the RIMS ERM conference starting with the 2019 conference in Louisiana. He will continue to attend so the body of risk knowledge will improve in Africa. Justin is glad Dr. Innocent Uzombah is getting so much from the RIMS conferences and looks forward to seeing him again. Dr. Uzombah thanks Justin.

[23:23] Special thanks to all of my guests for joining us and to all the attendees of the RIMS ERM Conference 2023. We had a blast, from the sponsors to the attendees and presenters, everyone left with some great new insight, a wider network, and fun memories! Announcements about next year’s ERM Conference will be made in 2024.

[23:41] There is a special ERM edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine that is also publicly accessible via the show notes. Check it out. You’ll see articles and RIMScast interviews featuring familiar names and faces from the conference.

[23:55] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[24:19] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[25:02] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[25:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[25:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[26:04] Thank you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS Risk Management Magazine: ERM Special Edition 2023

2023 AFERM Summit Training | Nov 28–29, 2023

Riskworld 2024 — San Diego, CA | May 5–8, 2024

Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk | Hosted Live & In-Person by RIMS NZ & PI | Feb. 12, 2024

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

ERM Q&A with Marianne Roth: ERM at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (2020)

RIMS Webinars:

An Introduction to U. S. Custom Surety Bonds | Sponsored by Nationwide | Nov. 16, 2023

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023

Business Interruption | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. | Dec. 1, 2023

RIMS PUBLIC POLICY COMMITTEE PRESENTS: Understanding Nevada’s “Defense Within the Limits” Ban | Dec. 1, 2023

Engineering Resilience: Strategies for Preventing Machinery Breakdown | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD | Dec. 7, 2023

Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Dec. 12, 2023

Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow | Sponsored by Aon | Dec. 14, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management | Dec 7

Fundamentals of Insurance | Dec 12

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

All RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops — Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13–14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“All Roads Lead to ERM with Merline Barrington of the Port Authority of NY & NJ”

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat”

“ERM’s Value Proposition with Chris Mandel”

“ERM in Banking & Finance with Eleni Willis”

“Emerging Risks and Board Reporting with Suzanne Christensen”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Chris Mandel!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guests

Fernanda Gutierrez Franco

Vice President | Gamma Iota Sigma-Beta Mu

Vice President | Women in Business

Student Assistant | Environmental Health and Safety

Attends: University of Colorado Denver

Marianne Roth, AFERM President

Bobbi-Jo Pankaj, 2023 Summit Committee Chair 

Aferm.org

Dr. Innocent Uzombah, MBA — Registrar General/CEO, Chartered Institute of Loan & Risk Management of Nigeria

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

ERM is everyone coming together to realize that there has to be a risk assessment or something laid out. It’s educating the people who aren’t a part of the risk industry that risk is always here and it’s better to be prepared than to be sorry later. — Fernanda Gutierrez Franco

I have a deep love for ERM. AFERM is the Association of Federal Risk Management. We have a lot of activities for federal, state, and local government, as well as vendors. I’m a vendor. — Bobbi-Jo Pankaj

At the Summit, everybody loves ERM. We have public and private sector speakers. We have 21 unique break-out sessions. We have five plenary speakers, including the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service. There’s a lot of networking. — Marianne Roth

We share ideas between countries and try to improve the body of knowledge in the risk management practice in Africa. — Dr. Innocent Uzombah, MBA

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Davis Hake, Co-Founder of Resilience, about his career in national security work, including working with former Congressman Langevin, Homeland Security, and Obama’s National Security staff. Davis tells about co-founding Resilience in the private sector to help organizations build cybercrime resilience. He introduces the Resilience Midyear 2023 Claims Report, revealing important trends discovered in cybercrime through claims data, Reliance research, and partner research.

Davis closes the interview with a look to 2024, his plans for pushing the flywheel faster, and his analysis of what it will take to break the new cybercrime business model.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:27] About today’s episode, where we will discuss cyber security trends from Resilience’s Midyear 2023 Claims Report.

[:36] First, a quick shoutout to the RIMS New Zealand Pacific Island Chapter and Marsh Australia and New Zealand, who welcome you to Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk, a one-day event on February 12, 2024 at the Pullman Hotel in Auckland, NZ.

[1:00] It will be a gathering of experts, thought leaders, and professionals from various industries to explore and discuss the critical role of risk management in today’s dynamic and uncertain world. There will be sessions on AI, Resilience, and Adaptability, highlighted by case studies and insights. See the link in this episode’s show notes. 

[1:21] It’s never too early to talk about RISKWORLD 2024! Save the date, May 5th–8th, 2024 in sunny San Diego, California. Booth and sponsorship sales are open. Member registration opens this month, November 2023 and public registration opens in December 2023. Visit RIMS.org/RISKWORLD to learn all about it.

[1:51] Our guest today, Davis Hake, is the Co-Founder of Resilience, which recently released its Midyear 2023 Claims Report. They say ransomware is entering a new era as cybercriminals have begun shifting their tactics to bypass security controls by hitting critical vendors and seeking larger targets for extortions.

[2:14] They’re big game hunting again and we're going to talk all about it with Davis Hake. Davis had a fascinating career in government and we will learn about that, as well.

[2:33] Davis Hake, welcome to RIMScast! This episode was recorded in October, National Cybersecurity Awareness Month, but as Davis says, every month is National Cybersecurity Awareness Month!

[3:18] Davis grew up working in politics on the Hill, for Congressman Jim Langevin. Congressman Langevin was one of the first on the Hill to identify we had serious problems in our critical infrastructure in everything from power plants to communication. At about that time, Stuxnet became a public concern.

[3:50] Congressman Langevin dove into looking at what we need to do as a nation to secure these larger problems. He realized cyber is an economic problem of incentives, cost, and how businesses manage their digital innovation. He set Davis on a path to be passionate about trying to fix it.

[4:14] Davis worked for a time in the Obama administration for the National Security Council. He came to the private sector to work in cybersecurity and got together with his Co-Founders to build something that would take this technical problem to understand a company’s risk and how they invest against it.

[4:41] They looked at the insurance industry for how to drive better risk management practices and applied RM to cyber. They started in 2016. Now, in 2023, they have an amazing insurance team with some of the best folks in the industry, serving clients in the U.S., the EU, and the UK with close to 200 staff members.

[5:32] Davis praises former Congressman Langevin for his intense concern about national security, not as a politician but as one who served not only his constituents but the nation. He worked across the aisle to serve the national good. Most importantly, he got things done.

[6:18] Congressman Langevin left Congress in 2023. Before he left, he worked on the Cyber Solarium Commission, helped establish the office of the National Cyber Director, and helped establish some of the authorities that allowed DHS to build CISA. Congressman Langevin has retired to work on issues in the state of Rhode Island.

[7:43] Resilience’s Midyear 2023 Claims Report covers events from January through June of 2023. They wanted to report the data with actionable analysis on top of it. Besides Resilience claims data, they analyzed public data from other organizations to understand Resilience’s data in the context of the broader cybercrime trends.

[9:08] Third-party vendor risk has always been a concern. The change is that fewer and fewer companies are paying extortions to ransomware actors. So now groups are targeting critical vendors and running data extortions with thousands of victims. They don’t encrypt. Resilience clients have filed incident reports on these attacks from Clop.

[9:47] How do you protect against vendor risk? Risk transfer through cyber insurance is so important. Don’t just look at the risk mitigation side, but also the risks out of your control. Insurance helps absorb environmental risks. With vendors, you can require that they prove verification from certain audits, like the SOC 2 Audit.

[10:30] You can have vendors tell you best practices they follow with other clients. Are they practicing what they’re preaching with their data security? You can limit the data you share with them. By just working with any vendor, which we all have to do, you are assuming their risk if they’re holding your data and they’re not your company.

[11:22] The ransomware criminal marketplace is a bunch of startups, taking the easiest path to revenue. Running a negotiation, locking up a company, and ensuring that you get access to their backups all take a lot of time.

[11:52] It is easier to target companies that have highly sensitive data they wouldn’t want exposed and threaten to release it. Resilience sees a lower rate of payment for these types of attacks but those who pay, end up paying large amounts. The Moveit attack and following attacks are estimated to have made Clop around $100 million.

[12:44] The Resilience report discusses data from other groups that show less than 40% of encryption victims are paying ransom, down from 80% in 2022. Resilience works to prepare their clients against ransomware attacks and about 15% of their clients attacked by ransomware pay the ransom. That number has gone down since 2022.

[15:06] Resilience helps clients to imagine the worst day for their clients. Let’s work backward to ensure that the worst day doesn't happen. That thinking has been core in helping companies reduce paying extortions. When executives pay extortions, it’s usually in a panic, thinking they can make this worst day immediately go away.

[15:49] If criminal groups have access to your data, they will do everything they can to use it against you. Prepare to protect that data in a way that is incredibly secure or resilient or make your organization resilient to this type of pressure. That’s the best thing you can do to limit financial loss and protect your customers from their worst day.

[16:21] RIMS plug time! Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. December 7th starts the three-part course, Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management, which will be led by our friend Pat Saporito.

[16:42] Fundamentals of Insurance returns on December 12th and 13th. It will be led by our good friend Gail Kyomura. Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[16:59] Metrics That Matter has cyber on their minds with Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program on November 7th. CLARA Analytics makes its RIMS debut on November 9th with Risk Management in the Era of Artificial Intelligence.

[17:22] On November 16th, Nationwide returns to present U.S. Customs Surety Bonds: A Primer for Risk Professionals. On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment.

[17:41] On December 12th, Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk with Riskonnect. On December 14th, Aon will be Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for the Risks of Tomorrow.

[17:54] Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[19:01] After the Colonial Pipeline attack, the U.S. security establishment got much more serious about ransomware. Defense against cybercrime was something that had been left up to the private sector. The administration started to take cybercrime seriously and cooperate with industry, working with CISA and the FBI heavily to fight back.

[19:48] When the War in Ukraine happened, the cooperation between the public and private sectors in the fight against ransomware intensified. As organizations have become more resilient against paying extortion, cybercriminals have to go after the big guys to get a payment. Cybercrime is indiscriminate between industries it targets.

[20:29] In Q1, 2023 there was a tide of cybercrime targeting healthcare organizations. In Q2, there was a big tide against manufacturing organizations. Clop then hit a few vendors for educational organizations. Organizations like MGM and Caesar’s which were hit, have massive networks full of devices they monitor, with different networks.

[21:13] MGM refused to pay, while Caesar’s paid the extortion. The reporting shows that Caesar’s has had an easier road to recovery. It may make more economic sense for large companies to pay the extortion. But that’s a bad message. That’s what has Resilience concerned. More complex clients, though better defended, are likely to pay.

[22:02] Groups like Clop are choosy about their targets and prioritize large organizations with a lot to lose. To successfully defend cyber in an enterprise, all the tech teams must work together and not remain siloed. Incentives have to come from the top that get the CIO, Risk, and Finance planning budgets together. It’s how your team works together.

[23:06] Davis served briefly on the National Security staff in the Obama Administration after working in Homeland Security.

[23:22] After the Obama Administration, a lot of the National Security staff moved to the private sector. Some continued to fight the security fight. The CEO of Resilience is a part-time Reservist working in Cyberdefense. He sees the national-level mission and the larger cyber trends.

[24:18] Most insurance is not operational; it’s reactionary, working with prior data to price the risk. In cyber, you’re too late if you’re taking that approach. Resilience has a threat intelligence team, taking in data much faster than a traditional insurance organization.

[25:07] Resilience is standing up a team that is working to provide technical analysis and trend analysis. They will show the large trends and the reasons they are happening, and validation from Resilience data and partner data. They’re combining financial loss and impact with threat intelligence they are monitoring from the security team.

[26:59] Davis says the tactic of encryptionless distortion is an evolution of the cybercrime business model, making it more efficient and effective. It’s a call to action for security. Building better widgets will not out-innovate these guys. We have to build better strategies and better business models that take their business models down.

[27:28] Resilience is working to build a better resilient flywheel, with insurance, visibility, and working with clients to address that will ultimately lead to lower financial loss for clients and the Resilience insurance company. They want to push the flywheel faster and faster until they can get inside the adversary’s business model.

[28:03] Special thanks again to Davis Hake for joining us on RIMScast. The link to the Midyear Report is in this episode’s show notes.

[28:13] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[28:37] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[29:21] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[29:46] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[30:02] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[30:25] Thank you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Riskworld 2024 — San Diego, CA | May 5–8, 2024

Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk | Hosted Live & In-Person by RIMS NZ & PI | Feb 12, 2024 | Register early to save 18%​:

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

Resilience Midyear 2023 Claims Report

RIMS Webinars:

Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program | Sponsored by Metrics That Matter | Nov. 7, 2023

Risk Management in the Era of Artificial Intelligence | Sponsored by CLARA Analytics | Nov. 9, 2023

An Introduction to U. S. Custom Surety Bonds | Sponsored by Nationwide | Nov. 16, 2023

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023

Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Dec. 12, 2023

Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow | Sponsored by Aon | Dec. 14, 2023

How Risk Managers Can Combat Human Trafficking In 2024 | Presented by RIMS | Jan. 16, 2024

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management | Dec 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

All RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops — Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13–14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Cybersecurity Awareness Month 2023 with Pamela Hans of Anderson Kill”

“Cybersecurity Reporting Updates with Hilary Tuttle of Risk Management Magazine”

“Cybersecurity and Insurance Outlook 2023 with Josephine Wolff”

“Genuine Generative AI Talk with Tom Wilde of Indico Data”

“Getting to Know Jackware with Dan Healy of Anderson Kill”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Darius Delon!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest

Davis Hake

Co-Founder of Resilience

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

Instead of encryption for ransom, it is easier to target companies that have highly sensitive data they wouldn’t want to be exposed and threaten to release it. — Davis Hake

Most insurance is not operational; it’s reactionary, working with past data to price the risk. In cyber, you’re too late if you’re taking that approach. — Davis Hake

The current tactic of encryptionless distortion is an evolution of the cybercrime business model, making it more efficient and effective. It’s a call to action for security. — Davis Hake

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Merline Barrington, ERM Manager for the Port Authority of NY and NJ, who will be a speaker at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 on the morning of Friday, November 3rd. Justin and Merline discuss Merline’s career path, what her passion is, and how it led her to the Port Authority. She speaks of the benefits she gains from her CRMP certification and gives us a glimpse of what to expect from her session on Nov. 3, at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] These are the final days to register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd–3rd. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2023 and listen to this episode to hear the online-only code you can use to save 10% off your registration at checkout!

[:46] About today’s episode, where we will discuss ERM and transportation with Merline Barrington of the Port Authority of NY and NJ. Merline will be a presenter at the ERM Conference 2023.

[1:06] The RIMS ERM Conference 2023 will be held in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd and 3rd. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2023 to view the agenda. At checkout, if you type code 2023RIMSCAST, all one word with no spaces, you will receive 10% off your registration.

[1:27] The ERM Conference 2023 will be different than years past. We’ve got some great changes. Book your travel plans now! RIMS will host a Post-conference Workshop for the RIMS CRMP from 9:00 to 4:00 MT on November 4th and 5th. Save $100 when you register for the conference and workshop in one transaction. Links are in the notes.

[1:58] My guest today, Merline Barrington, is the Manager of Enterprise Risk Management for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. On November 3rd, she will be leading one of the breakout sessions at 9:00 a.m., titled “Connecting ERM to Strategy: Tackling Strategic Risks a Deep Dive at a Time.”

[2:20] Merline is also a CRMP holder and a lot of fun to speak with. Let’s get started! Justin welcomes Merline Barrington to RIMScast!

[2:32] Justin and Merline met last year at the RIMS ERM Conference 2022 in Indianapolis. Merline was a very excited attendee. Justin picked up on that enthusiasm and suggested Merline should submit a session. Today, they will talk about the session Merline will do for RIMS ERM Conference 2023.

[3:13] Merline Barrington’s session for RIMS ERM Conference 2023 is called “Connecting ERM to Strategy: Tackling Strategic Risks a Deep Dive at a Time,” on November 3rd, kicking off the Friday morning sessions. Merlin is more excited than nervous about it!

[3:34] Justin was fascinated with Merline’s position at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. She is the lead for ERM. The ERM unit is a small, nimble, central group with dotted line connections up, down, and across the enterprise to areas that are indirectly or directly responsible for ERM risks to their business and objectives.

[4:35] As a Certified Risk Management Professional (CRMP), Merline is responsible for leading and innovatively developing an ERM program designed to proactively manage business, operational, emerging, and strategic risks to this very complex, quasi-government, bi-state organization.

[4:55] The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey spans several global business segments altogether valued at several billion dollars. Merline’s work includes determining the agency’s ERM framework and architecture, and integrating risk intelligence with key functions such as strategic planning and resource allocation. 

[5:21] Merline also works with partners in different lines of defense, such as audit and insurance. All of this is ultimately to inform decision-making and to provide that holistic view and understanding of significant risks to executive and board-level audiences.

[5:39] Merline works with various levels of the enterprise, from the most senior executive levels to the front-line staff to proactively identify and manage risk via workshops, risk control self-assessments (RCSA), and other techniques.

[5:57] Importantly, Merline’s job also includes developing and mentoring practitioners on her team and indirect team members throughout the organization to deliver on its program’s value proposition.

[6:32] Merline discusses the value proposition of ERM. If you take the time to craft an honest and accurate value proposition for the brand of ERM of your organization and consider what your key audience expects from ERM, you can develop a cascading message where the core remains the same but there are different levels of zooming in.

[8:06] The Port Authority is responsible for transportation by land, water, air, and roadways. This includes the major airports in the New York-New Jersey region, and one in upper New York: LaGuardia, JFK, Newark, and National Airports. It includes the seaport, marine terminals, bus terminals, bridges, tunnels, and commuter rail pass.

[9:31] The Port Authority also has some real estate in Lower Manhattan. If you’re in or around New York or New Jersey, you touch a Port Authority asset, one way or another,

[10:02] Merline explains what brought her to the Port Authority. She has a passion for public service. She earned a spot in the agency’s competitive management program for grad students. She touched many areas of the agency, which piqued her interest in a career in an area where she could leverage her skills to improve public service.

[10:41] Merline’s career at a transportation provider led her to risk by providing an avenue to build her career in an area that is purposed to protect routine, mature organizational value. That is ERM. Following her passions in what she is good at is what led Merline to ERM. She wants to make public institutions better with her skills.

[11:21] This is Merline’s 10th year at the Port Authority.

[11:50] RIMS plug time! Justin sends a quick shoutout to the RIMS New Zealand and Pacific Island Chapter and Marsh Australia and New Zealand, who welcome you to “Embrace the Unknown, Unleashing the Power of Risk.” This is a one-day session on February 12th, 2024 at the Pullman Hotel in Auckland, New Zealand.

[12:13] It will be a gathering of experts, thought leaders, and professionals from various industries to explore and discuss the critical role of risk management in today’s dynamic and uncertain world. There are sessions about AI, resilience, and adaptability, highlighted by case studies and insights. A link is on this episode’s notes.

[12:35] Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. Our friend Chris Hansen was recently on RIMScast. He will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course!

[13:03] December 7th starts the three-part course, Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management, which will be led by our friend Pat Saporito.

[13:15] Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[13:24] On October 31st, Resolver returns to present Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024. Metrics That Matter has Enhanced Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program on November 7. CLARA Analytics makes its RIMS debut on November 9th with Risk Management in the Era of Artificial Intelligence.

[13:56] On November 16th, Nationwide returns to present U.S. Customs Surety Bonds: A Primer for Risk Professionals. On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment.

[14:15] On December 12th, Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk with Riskonnect. On December 14th, Aon will be Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for the Risks of Tomorrow.

[14:28] Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[14:49] Generally speaking, organizations of similar size or depth to the Port Authority may be experiencing a confluence of strategic risks, such as cybersecurity meets climate change, and the need to adopt digital and climate-friendly technology at a balanced rate, so as not to exceed the adoption curve, while attracting the right talent.

[15:41] Merline believes organizations are having to grapple with the introspection of these risk areas, compounded by a volatile global and economic context. The ability to interpret uncertainty before it fully emerges is relevant to organizational strategy. Being able to measure the potential impact is critical to the success of any organization.

[16:25] Merline advises organizations and travelers to book flights early and plan ahead. Have a Plan B. See if your destination is also served by rail or other modes of transport since things are unpredictable. If your flight doesn’t work out, you have another plan.

[17:44] Merline’s RIMS CRMP certification has added much value to how she approaches ERM in the organization, especially in how she develops new staff. It helps when mentoring staff to be able to point to specific principles and research to delve into to become a better RMP and communicate how said principles enrich the work they do.

[18:26] Merline earned her RIMS CRMP about two years ago. She was attending the conference where she met Justin as a way to gather credits toward recertification. Merline has a lot of interest in ERM and AI and data analytics and ERM. 

[19:28] All roads lead to the further integration of ERM and strategy, using all the developing emerging technologies of AI, data, etc. ERM is to get better insights and get ahead of the curve to bring meaningful dialog to the attention of decision-makers and facilitate decision-making based on a thorough understanding of data and analytics.

[20:14] Merline Harrington shares her CRMP story in a link in this episode’s show notes.

[20:21] Merline’s ERM session will be one of the first Conference breakouts of November 3rd, “Connecting ERM to Strategy: Tackling Strategic Risks a Deep Dive at a Time.” Merline is excited to share a bit of the journey of her ERM practice at the Port Authority, sharing her wins and lessons learned that turned into tactics and techniques.

[21:31] Merline will be highlighting some of the turning points, all of which happened at a complex organization while engaging several different types of businesses, which added complexity to her work.

[21:54] Merline is eager to have this conversation on ERM starting with COSO’s updated version of the ERM Framework in 2016‒2017, explicitly tying what we do to strategy setting, strategy execution, and strategy monitoring. And then the hard work came in of planning how to do it. Everyone has their own flavor or path of ERM.

[22:32] If a person can walk away from the session with a helpful technique or two Merline will think she has been successful. Justin will try to jump into Merline’s session first thing in the morning.

[22:58] Justin tells Merline Barrington it’s a real pleasure to see her again, and looks forward to seeing her later this week in Denver.

[22:19] Special thanks again to Merline Barrington of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey for joining me on RIMScast. I have a link to her CRMP story on this episode’s show notes. She’ll be kicking things off for us on November 3rd at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, Colorado.

[23:40] Last call for registration, folks. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2023. Register today, We want to see you there!

[23:48] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[24:10] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[24:54] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[25:20] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[25:36] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[25:58] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

Embrace The Unknown: Unleashing the Power of Risk | Hosted Live & In-Person by RIMS NZ & PI | Feb 12, 2024 | Register early to save 18%​:

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

Merline Barrington’s RIMS-CRMP Story

RIMS Webinars:

Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024 | Sponsored by Resolver | Oct. 31, 2023

Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program | Sponsored by Metrics That Matter | Nov. 7, 2023

Risk Management in the Era of Artificial Intelligence | Sponsored by CLARA Analytics | Nov. 9, 2023

An Introduction to U.S. Custom Surety Bonds | Sponsored by Nationwide | Nov. 16, 2023

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023

Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Dec. 12, 2023

Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow | Sponsored by Aon | Dec. 14, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Captives as an Alternate Risk Financing Technique | Nov 1

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management | Dec 7 See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops – Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13-14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat”

“ERM’s Value Proposition with Chris Mandel”

“ERM in Banking & Finance with Eleni Willis”

“Emerging Risks and Board Reporting with Suzanne Christensen”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Darius Delon!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest

Merline Barrington

ERM Manager for the Port Authority of NY and NJ

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

As a Certified RMP, I am responsible for leading and innovatively developing an ERM program designed to proactively manage business, operational, emerging, and strategic risks to this very complex, quasi-government, bi-state organization. — Merline Barrington

I work with various levels of the enterprise, from the senior executive levels to the front-line staff to proactively identify and manage risk via workshops, risk control self-assessments (RCSA), and other techniques. — Merline Barrington

If a person can walk away from the session with a helpful technique or two, then I think I would have been successful. — Merline Barrington

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. While ERM can fit any organization, it is also different for every organization. How do you translate ERM from your previous organization to your new one? What areas of synergy might you have, and how do you navigate different governance structures and cultures? This session will provide insight from different perspectives and companies to demonstrate how you can implement a successful ERM program wherever you go. In this episode, Justin interviews three guests: Sandra Fontenot, Manager of Risk Management at Omnicell, Alison Sweeney, Vice President and Fine Art Expert, and Michelle Stegmann, Vice President of Claims, both of Distinguished Fine Art & Collectibles. Justin and Sandra discuss her ERM career and her upcoming ERM Conference Session on Nov 3. Then Justin interviews Alison Sweeney and Michelle Stegmann about insuring fine art and their experiences in it.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] Register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, which will be held in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd–3rd. RIMS will also host an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena in Denver on November 1st. Limited seating is available. Visit RIMS.org/ERM to register and listen to this episode to hear the code for 10% off your registration!

[:41] About today’s episode where we will first talk about ERM and then get into a discussion about fine art and risk.

[1:01] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! The Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge is a six-month competition for university students where teams compete to develop and present the most comprehensive risk management report based on a case study.

[1:19] Eight teams will present their findings at RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego, California to a panel of risk management professionals. The top three teams will be awarded cash prizes and recognized at the Spencer reception and during the  RISKWORLD Conference Finale. This is our annual international student competition. [1:39] Full details can be found on the Spencer website at Spencered.org. The application period closes on October 31st, 2023. Get involved; participate. We hope to see you at RISKWORLD!

[1:52] The RIMS Legislative Summit is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th. Visit RIMS.org/Advocacy to register.

[2:04] The RIMS ERM Conference 2023 will be held November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado. On November 1st, RIMS is hosting an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena, where the Denver Nuggets and Denver Avalanche play. There is limited seating. Register at RIMS.org/ERM2023. At checkout, type code 2023RIMSCAST for 10% off registration!

[2:52] The ERM Conference 2023 will be different than years past. We’ve got some great changes. Book your travel plans now! RIMS will host a Post-conference Workshop for the RIMS CRMP from 9:00 to 4:00 MT on November 4th and 5th. Save $100 when you register for the conference and workshop in one transaction. Links are in the notes.

[3:22] My first guest, Sandra Fontenot, is an ERM Manager for Omnicell in Texas. She was a recipient of the ERM Award of Distinctions Honorable Mention in 2021 for her work at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport.

[3:39] We will hear a bit about Sandra’s career and the session that she will co-present at the RIMS ERM Conference on November 3rd, titled “ERM: Same Process, Different Organization.” Sandra Fontenot, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:43] Sandra is the Manager of Risk Management at Omnicell, an autonomous pharmacy company. Omnicell works with hospitals and pharmacies, providing pharmacy staffing, software, and robotic dispensing machinery to make sure the right patient gets the right medication at the right time. Omnicell is global, based in Texas.

[6:18] Sandra describes her past work at DFW Airport. A month-and-a-half after she started there, DFW went on lockdown during COVID-19. It gave Sandra the opportunity to learn the ins and outs of the airport while working in a hybrid situation. It also opened opportunities for construction and improvements to the facility.

[7:30] In 2021, DFW Airport was awarded the RIMS Global Award of Distinction for its Enterprise Risk Management program. Sandra describes how that came to pass. The infrastructure of an airport is like a city. It all has to run from the roads to the water to the bathroom tissues and the concessions. It has a police department.

[10:26] Sandra will be one of three presenters of a session at RIMS ERM Conference 2023, on November 3rd, called “ERM: Same Process, Different Organization.” One co-presenter, Trisha Sqrow, worked with Sandra at DWF Airport. Their presentation states that no matter what your enterprise is, the ERM process is typically the same. [11:01] You have to make sure that you have a process in place to look at risks and opportunities and determine the likelihood and the potential financial impact of each risk or opportunity. The basis and principle are the same wherever you are. Risk professionals in ERM network and share ideas at ERM conferences.

[12:14] Sandra’s presentation will be on November 3rd at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, Colorado.

[12:31] When Sandra started at Omnicell, they had rolled out their first ERM survey the previous year. Now they are doing deeper dive conversations, adding onto that survey, and putting together a Risk Council. Sandra says she is a department of one-and-a-half, including the support and guidance of her great manager.

[13:38] Sandra is also looking forward to being an ERM Square. ERM Squares is the new conference finale! It will feature nine seasoned risk professionals answering questions that students will then agree or disagree with. At the end of ERM Squares, there will be a raffle for a complimentary registration to RISKWORLD 2024 for an audience member.

[15:57] RIMS plug time! RIMS wants you to submit your nomination for Risk Manager of the Year 2024. This prestigious award recognizes outstanding performance in the practice of risk management and will be presented at RISKWORLD 2024. Individuals must be RIMS members in good standing if they are selected to receive this award.

[16:22] You are also required to be a member to win any future award. Part 1 Nominations for the 2024 Risk Manager of the Year program are due by October 27th. Check the link in this episode’s show notes for more information and to view the guidelines for submission and judging criteria.

[16:42] Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. Our friend Chris Hansen was recently on RIMScast. He will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course!

[17:16] Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[17:24] On October 26th, our friends from Zurich North America return to present PFAS Forever Chemicals – Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies. On October 31st, Resolver returns to present Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024.

[17:49] Metrics That Matter has Enhanced Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program on November 7. CLARA Analytics makes its RIMS debut with Risk Management in the Era of Artificial Intelligence.

[18:08] On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment. On December 12th, Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk with Riskonnect. On December 14th, Aon will be Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow.

[18:32] Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[18:46] National Fine Art Appreciation Day is celebrated annually on October 25th. My next guests, Michelle Stegmann and Alison Sweeney, from the Distinguished Fine Art and Collectibles Group at Distinguished Programs, paint some broad strokes for us about how fine art and risk management intersect. 

[19:09] Michelle Stegmann and Alison Sweeney, welcome to RIMScast!

[19:44] Michelle is a 30-year claims veteran and an attorney. She has been with large carriers including CNA, Clemen Forster, and Firemans Fund/Allianz, and in the programs space, working with MGAs and now with an MGA, Distinguished Programs, on their fine art and collectibles team. Michelle has a huge passion and love for the arts space.

[20:38] Before joining Distinguished Programs, Alison was a fine art underwriter for AXA XL. Before that, she was a broker in the fine art space for eight years. For nine years before that, Alison worked in art appraisals, doing risk assessments and evaluations and working on claims. Alison is passionate about art and has a master’s in art history.

[21:52] Alison explains that commercial fine art policy is a property policy on items of a fine art nature, and antiques, jewelry, silver, rugs, and more that you might collect that have value. Art is subjective. For an insurance policy, it is something unique or unusual that has a market value and is replaceable.

[22:47] The policy makes the client whole by restoration or replacement of the item with one of similar value or as close to restoration or replacement as is possible.

[23:23] Michelle describes types of fine art policies for galleries, owners, collectors, and museums.

[24:05] Michelle lists use cases to show the value of a fine art policy to an organization or a collector. Many objects that have important value to the people who belong to an institution can be covered.

[25:07] The large majority of claims are not dramatic theft claims but damage or loss of the piece during transit; water damage from a burst pipe; damage from humidity, fire, or smoke; vandalism, linked to climate change protests; outdoor sculptures being subjected to the elements; natural catastrophic disasters; or accidental breakage.

[27:22] A total loss is quite uncommon, except in a fire. Much more frequently there are partial losses where something needs to be repaired to be restored to its original condition.

[27:51] In a partial loss, you may get the call while the loss is in progress. The first step is to make sure the artwork is removed from the dangerous situation to prevent further damage. When the situation is stabilized, you get a conservator involved to look at the piece, assess what needs to be done to repair it, and come up with a treatment plan.

[28:49] If the artist is living, the claims adjuster will confer with the artist under the Visual Artists Rights Act (VARA) in America which gives artists the moral right to ensure that the essential meaning and intent of the piece is preserved even after sale, and make sure that the artist is on board with the treatment plan.

[29:14] Once everything aligns, the treatment plan is commenced and the piece is restored. Then there is an assessment done to determine if there’s any diminution in the value. Then there is a determination on whether any payments would appropriately issue. Finally, the claim is concluded and the restored piece is returned to the owner.

[29:56] Alison reveals that the greatest number of claims the industry has seen in recent years was the result of Superstorm Sandy. There was a huge inundation of water in Chelsea, where a lot of galleries and storage facilities were based. It impacted a huge number of commercial galleries. It took many years to sort through insurance claims.

[30:32] As a result of Superstorm Sandy, people have become more cautious about basement storage. A stillage warranty requires maintaining property a certain number of inches off the ground. There has been a huge embrace of water sensors that alert the owner to any sort of inundation from pipes or flooding, to get in and remove property.

[31:17] Michelle relates the story of the Picasso painting, Le Rêve, which was owned by casino magnate Steven Wynn in New York and sold to hedge fund manager Stephen Cohen in 2006 for a record $139 million. Before the transfer, when showing it to Nora Ephron and Barbara Walters, Wynn accidentally put his elbow through the painting.

[32:22] This resulted in a six-inch tear. The tear was repaired by an insurance carrier for $90 thousand. The painting sold again in 2013 to Stephen Cohen for a record $155 million. Damage to a piece of art doesn’t necessarily cause diminution in value.

[33:19] Alison addresses fine art insurance trends. Since COVID-19, art fairs, where multiple galleries exhibit, have been picking up again. Galleries have also made a big pivot to online sales, growing into new markets. That means an increase in transits and smaller sales. It leads to a change in the way to approach transit insurance.

[34:21] Michelle talks about dealing with reputable shippers and packers who know how to pack fine art. There has been an increase in people moving, and moving their personal items as well as their fine art. They must make sure the company they work with is very well-versed in how to move art.

[35:02] In 2019, Justin covered an event for RIMS, called The Business of Art. Alison was there. She remembers people coming up with creative and interesting questions. Events like that show what insurance industry professionals who don’t work in fine art are interested in. She hopes to attend more events like that soon.

[37:17] Michelle reflects on her career. From a claims perspective, this is exactly where she planned to be when she started. She was always interested in helping people solve their problems and fix something that had gone awry. That is also what attracted her to the law.

[37:49] In the fine arts space, people have an emotional connection to these pieces of beauty which means that there’s a human interaction that can’t be downplayed in the claims process, in facilitating that and making sure they get to where they need to be.

[38:00] Alison didn’t know when she started studying art history that there was a world in which you could be an advisor in an insurance capacity. She feels extremely fortunate to have this position to help people with the collections they are personally invested in. The items very often are family heirlooms.

[38:55] Alison has seen a huge trend in businesses toward maintaining a cloud-based management system for their collection. Having a photo document accessible with details on the location of the property, the values, and the dimensions is a gift. It’s great, from an insurance perspective to access that.

[39:28] Happy National Fine Art Day to you both! It’s been such a pleasure to have you hear on RIMScast. There is a link to an article from Distinguished on this episode’s notes. Hopefully, we see you at another fine art event in the city, and not put our elbows accidentally through anything and create a six-inch tear!

[40:00] Special thanks again to all of my guests. I have a link to an article from Distinguished about fine art and risk management. I’ve also got a link to RIMS coverage, including a piece I wrote, covering a fine art and risk management event in 2019. See the links in this episode's show notes.

[49:17] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS App!

[40:37] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[41:20] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[41:44] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[42:00] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[42:21] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25 & 26, Washington, D.C.

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024 — Be a Case Study or Join Judging Panel!

RIMScast to receive the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Nominate someone to RIMS 2024 Risk Manager of the Year or another RIMS award

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

Fine Art coverage:

“The Risky ‘Business of Art’ Explored at Observer Event” | Risk Management Monitor

“The Intrinsic Beauty of Risk Management” | Risk Management Magazine

“Protecting the Priceless” | Risk Management Magazine

“Understanding Fine Art and Collectibles Insurance by Distinguished” | Distinguished Fine Art & Collectibles Insurance

RIMS Webinars:

PFAS Forever Chemicals — Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 26, 2023

Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024 | Sponsored by Resolver | Oct. 31, 2023

Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program | Sponsored by Metrics That Matter | Nov. 7, 2023

Risk Management in the Era of Artificial Intelligence | Sponsored by CLARA Analytics | Nov. 9, 2023

An Introduction to U. S. Custom Surety Bonds | Sponsored by Nationwide | Nov. 16, 2023

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023

Prepare Yourself for the New Generation of Risk | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Dec. 12, 2023

Addressing Today’s Risks While Preparing for Tomorrow | Sponsored by Aon | Dec. 14, 2023 RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Captives as an Alternate Risk Financing Technique | Nov 1

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops — Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13-14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat”

“Celebrating International Podcast Day™ and Risk with Jay Gates and Elisa Stampf”

“Evolving Fire Risks with Ralph Bless”“Trisha Sqrow Talks ERM in the Air and on the Ground”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Darius Delon!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guests

Sandra FontenotManager, Risk Management at Omnicell

Alison Sweeney

Vice President and Fine Art Expert, Distinguished Fine Art & Collectibles

Michelle Stegmann

Vice President of Claims, Distinguished Fine Art & Collectibles

Distinguished.com/blog

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

DFW Airport is a mini-city within itself. We did have our own police department, so we made sure that they were able to get back and forth to work and scheduled overnight housing at hotels for them. — Sandra Fontenot

In the fine arts space, people have an emotional connection to these pieces of beauty which means there’s a human interaction that can’t be downplayed in the claims process, in facilitating that and making sure they get to where they need to be. — Michelle Stegmann

I didn’t know when I started studying art history that there was a world in which you could be an advisor in an insurance capacity. I feel extremely fortunate to have this position to help people with the collections they are invested in; often heirlooms. — Alison Sweeney

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. In this episode, Justin interviews Chris Mandel on his career highlights and service award, being RIMS President, how the tone of the profession has changed, and how ERM has evolved. They explore why having an organizational ERM group is still a tough sell. They discuss Chris’s sessions in the upcoming RIMS ERM Conference 2023 on November 2, with one session in the morning and one in the afternoon, and what members can expect when they attend. They wrap up the discussion with thoughts on the RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshop on December 13 and 14 and some insights into Chris’s popular ERM LinkedIn Group.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] Register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, which will be held in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd–3rd. RIMS will also host an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena in Denver on November 1st. Limited seating is available. Visit RIMS.org/ERM to register and listen to this episode to hear the code for 10% off your registration!

[:41] About today’s episode on all things ERM with former RIMS President, Chris Mandel.

[1:01] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! If you will be attending RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego, California, take a moment to sign up as a volunteer judge on the panel of risk professionals in the Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024.

[1:27] The top three teams will be awarded cash prizes and recognized at the Spencer reception and during the RISKWORLD Conference Finale. This is our annual international six-month-long university student competition. Full details can be found on the Spencer website at Spencered.org.

[1:44] The application period closes on October 31st, 2023. Get involved; participate. We hope to see you at RISKWORLD!

[1:53] The RIMS Legislative Summit is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th. Head to the RIMS.org/Advocacy page to register.

[2:04] The RIMS ERM Conference 2023 will be held November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado. On November 1st, RIMS is hosting an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena, where the Denver Nuggets and Denver Avalanche play. There is limited seating. Register at RIMS.org/ERM2023. At checkout, type code 2023RIMSCAST for 10% off registration!

[2:52] The ERM Conference 2023 will be different than years past. We’ve got some great changes. Book your travel plans now! RIMS will host a Post-conference Workshop for the RIMS CRMP from 9:00 to 4:00 MT on November 4th and 5th. Save $100 when you register for the conference and workshop in one transaction. Links are in the notes.

[3:23] Chris Mandel is well-known in the risk management community and among RIMS members. He served as RIMS President in 2002 and received the Harry and Dorothy Goodell Award for outstanding service and achievement in the risk management discipline in 2016. He’s had a wonderful career that seems to go on and on!

[3:48] Check out the link and listen to the RIMS Risk Leaders series episode I did with Chris a few years back. Chris is also the President and Managing Consultant for Excellence in Risk Management, an LLC based in Tennessee. He’s here today to discuss all things ERM.

[4:11] Chris will lead two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, CO on November 2nd. In the morning, he will lead “The Value Proposition and Process for Operationalizing Risk Appetite Strategies and Frameworks.”

[4:28] In the afternoon, Chris, with leaders from HUB International, will co-lead a 45-minute session titled, “Nerd-Out on Numbers: Why Analytics Are Key to Extraordinary ERM.” Chris will also be leading a RIMS CRMP Virtual Workshop on December 13th and 14th. He just can’t quit risk management and we’re all better for it!

[4:55] Justin welcomes Chris Mandel to RIMScast. Chris was RIMS President in 2002–2003. Chris spent the first half of his career in traditional risk management in large corporations. In the first part of this century, Chris was asked to create an ERM strategy and ultimately became Chief Risk Officer for USAA in San Antonio, for 10 years.

[6:02] That was where Chris’s career became more progressive. Chris was on the RIMS board for seven years, was Risk Manager of the Year in 2004, and received the Goodell Award in 2016 for lifetime achievement. He has retired twice but he can’t seem to stop. He has a consulting firm specializing in ERM.

[6:27] Chris spent eight years doing strategic work for Sedgwick. He is on the faculty at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, where he teaches ERM. ERM is a key aspect of his skillset. The risk discipline is advancing and maturing, so there’s never a dull moment.

[7:41] The risk management profession has changed since 2002. In 2002, risk managers were focused on insurable risk. The Enron debacle raised the question of whether risk was being managed effectively in a lot of companies. Risk management became an explorative discipline of embracing risk and exploring the ERM version of the discipline.

[8:53] Chris calls the years since 2002 a time of expanding, exploring, and innovation until now when we are executing on things that were more conceptual in the past, employing progressive tactics and strategies to manage an ever-expanding landscape of risk for organizations that are increasingly being challenged by risks.

[9:29] ERM is constantly maturing. RIMS has published its second ERM maturity model. It’s recognition of getting to a level of maturity where we might accomplish some other objectives that might push this more from a discipline into a profession. Risk professionals need recognition in their organizations so they can influence decisions.

[10:17] Organizations are discovering the need for robust ERM and how it adds value in risktech and insuretech. If you ignore rare risks, and they blow up in your face, you get asked, “How did you miss that?” ERM is coalescing into an issue for serious practitioners who want to rise in the ranks to be more influential in their organizations.

[12:30] There are still detractors who believe all you need to worry about is how you insure the organization. They believe that as long as nothing uninsured blows up in their faces. Then they believe in ERM.

[12:45] Chris will present “The Value Proposition and Process for Operationalizing Risk Appetite Strategies and Frameworks” at RIMS ERM Conference 2023. Chris just co-authored a paper on risk appetite in financial institutions that is being considered for publication in a journal of risk management for banking.

[14:16] The presentation is to convince the audience that even if you’re not in financial services, there’s good reason why you want to manage risk to risk appetite. That’s a simple way to state what can be a very complicated approach and process. How can you manage risk if you don’t know how much risk you’re able to take or need to take?

[15:14] Chris will be presenting with Barry Franklin, former CRO for Zurich North America who is an actuary.

[15:31] In the afternoon, Chris, with leaders from HUB International, will co-lead a 45-minute session titled, “Nerd-Out on Numbers: Why Analytics Are Key to Extraordinary ERM.” Jeff Guttman and Chrystina Howard from HUB International, Client Analytics and ERM, had asked Chris to join them on this presentation.

[15:53] The session focuses on the evolution from total cost of risk (TCOR) to applying concepts and tools that get risk quantification done in a more robust way and move beyond just those things that are insurable. A lot of people are still skeptical about that. That’s one reason risk appetite frameworks and strategies are not always adopted.

[16:28] There will be some compelling arguments presented about some ways in which risk can be quantified that people may never have been exposed to. If you thought strategic risk was unquantifiable, you’re wrong. Strategic risk has been shown to be the most destructive kind of risk, over financial, operational, legal, and compliance risks.

[17:16] These two sessions dovetail nicely for Chris. They are hot topics for him, what he teaches at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, and what he practices in his consulting.

[17:32] RIMS plug time! Sponsor an episode of RIMScast! Contact us at [email protected]. Justin is pleased, humbled, and excited to announce that RIMS and RIMScast have won the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award on October 24, 2023, from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

[18:18] On Friday, November 10th, from 10 to 11, NYSAE is presenting a virtual program called ”Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association.” Justin is honored to be one of the panelists. A link is in this episode’s notes.

[18:35] Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. Our friend Elise Farnham returns on October 24th and 25th to lead the two-day course Fundamentals of Risk Management.

[18:56] Our friend Chris Hansen was recently on RIMScast. He will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course! Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[19:27] On October 26th, our friends from Zurich North America return to present PFAS Forever Chemicals – Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies. On October 31st, Resolver returns to present Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024.

[19:51] Metrics That Matter has Enhanced Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program on November 7. On November 21st, Beazley returns to present Business Risk: Helping Your Executives to Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment.

[20:11] There is a lot of great educational content for you in the next month! Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[20:38] Even in college, Chris was deathly afraid of public speaking. For the last 15 or 20 years, it seems all he has done is talk to audiences. As RIMS President, he talked to conference audiences in the thousands. He traveled the world talking to chapters and regional conferences. It’s almost 2nd nature to him now. It’s what he loves doing.

[22:05] Chris brings that same feeling to a RIMS ERM 45-minute session on numbers as well as to an address. He makes it concise and engaging. He plans it as a conversation with the audience, including questions.

[23:46] Chris will be leading a RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshop on December 13th and 14th. Chris was in the first 200 to take the RIMS-CRMP as soon as he qualified for it. He felt he needed it if he was going to keep speaking on risk. There were no preparatory materials at the time but he passed. Now there are the Virtual Workshops to help you.

[24:55] Chris tells us how to be better prepared for the RIMS-CRMP examination. It’s a reflection of experience and knowledge that goes way beyond the surface. It’s designed to cause people to think. People need to properly prepare for it to get through it. CRMP reflects, more than anything, the advancement of the discipline closer to a profession.

[26:24] You can’t memorize the CRMP test. The test changes every time around. You’re learning core concepts in the workshop. The RIMS-CRMP is about what you’ve put into practice over the years; it’s an attempt to measure the depth of your experience, knowledge, and skills.

[26:44] Chris uses interaction in his presentation of the RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshop. It’s a combination of lecture and group exercises that keep people engaged throughout. Chris teaches it at the university or master’s level.

[27:40] Chris created an ERM LinkedIn group in 2004 or 2005. See the link in the show notes. It has around 51,000 members from around the world. Chris blocks people who try to sell things or present topics that do not relate to risk management. Justin is going to post a link to this episode on the group. Any ERM enthusiast can learn from Chris.

[31:03] Chris Mandel will be at the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd. The first session he’s going to do is 60 minutes, called “The Value Proposition and Process for Operationalizing Risk Appetite Strategies and Frameworks.” [31:19] In the afternoon, Chris, with leaders from HUB International, will co-lead a  45-minute session titled, “Nerd-Out on Numbers: Why Analytics Are Key to Extraordinary ERM.”

[31:26] Chris has always been supportive of Justin’s work at RIMS. Justin thanks Chris for joining RIMScast.

[31:41] Special thanks to former RIMS President, Chris Mandel for joining us on RIMScast. He’ll be leading sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference on November 2nd and 3rd and he will be leading the RIMS-CRMP Prep Virtual Workshop on December 13th and 14th. See links in this episode’s show notes.

[32:02] Go to the App Store and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Justin spoke with Chris Mandel a few years ago about some challenges he overcame during his career as part of the RIMS Risk Leaders audio series. That episode is now on the RIMS App so go check it out! Everybody loves the RIMS app!

[32:38] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[33:19] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[33:43] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[33:59] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[34:21] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25 & 26, Washington, D.C.

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024 — Be a Case Study or Join Judging Panel!

RIMScast to receive the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

“NYSAE Webinar: Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association”

ERM Group on LinkedIn

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Chris Mandel: RIMS Risk Leaders Series (Audio Interview About Major Risks & Career Highlights)

Chris Mandel Receives RIMS’ Top Honors (Risk Management Monitor, 2016)

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

RIMS Webinars:

PFAS Forever Chemicals — Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 26, 2023

Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024 | Sponsored by Resolver | Oct. 31, 2023

Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program | Sponsored by Metrics That Matter | Nov. 7, 2023

Business Risk: Helping your Executives Navigate Today’s Volatile Risk Environment | Sponsored by Beazley | Nov. 21, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Fundamentals of Risk Management | Oct 24–25

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

All RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops— Including Chris Mandel’s Dec 13–14 Course

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat”

“ERM in Banking & Finance with Eleni Willis”

“The Future of AI and Work with Sinead Bovell”

“Genuine Generative AI Talk with Tom Wilde of Indico Data”

“Live from the RIMS ERM Conference 2022”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Cyclone Season: Proactive Preparation for Loss Minimization” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd. (New!)

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest, Chris Mandel

President and Managing Consultant

ExcelinRisk.com

Excellence in Risk Management, LLC, Nashville, Tennessee

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

I spent the first half of my career in traditional risk management with companies like Verizon, The Red Cross, Marsh, and Pepsico. In the early part of the new century,  I was asked to create an ERM strategy and became CRO for USAA. That’s where I turned my career. — Chris Mandel

You can’t ignore the “black swans,” infrequent as they are, because as soon as you do, they’re going to blow up in your face, and then you’re going to get that question nobody likes, which is, “How did you miss that!?” — Chris Mandel

The test changes every time around. They’re learning core concepts in the workshop. The RIMS-CRMP is about what you’ve put into practice over the years because it is an attempt to measure the depth of your experience, knowledge, and skills. — Chris Mandel

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. In this episode, Justin interviews Pamela Hans of Anderson Kill on the many aspects of Cybersecurity, including who is responsible for it. (If you have a networked device, it’s you!) The discussion covers the effects of the new SEC ruling requiring many companies to report a cybersecurity event within four days of discovering that a material event has occurred, and what that means to you and your organization. Justin and Pamela also review her presentation at the RIMS Canada Conference 2023 and how a potential problem became a fun opportunity.

Lots to cover in today’s episode. Let’s get to it.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] Register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, which will be held in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd–3rd. RIMS will also host an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena in Denver on November 1st. Limited seating is available. Visit RIMS.org/ERM to register and listen to this episode to hear the code for 10% off your registration!

[:41] About today’s episode on cybersecurity and presentation skills with Pamela Hans of Anderson Kill.

[1:01] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! Would you like funding to hire a risk management intern in 2024? If so, take a moment to apply for a Spencer Internship Grant. The application form will close on October 15th. The link is in this episode’s notes.

[1:28] If you will be attending RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego, California, take a moment to sign up as a volunteer judge in the Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024. This is our annual international student competition. Full details can be found on the Spencer website at Spencered.org. Get involved; participate. We want to see you there!

[1:52] Head to the RIMS.org/Advocacy page to register for The RIMS Legislative Summit, which is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th.

[2:04] The RIMS ERM Conference 2023 will be held November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado. On November 1st, RIMS is hosting an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena, where the Denver Nuggets and Denver Avalanche play. There is limited seating. Register at RIMS.org/ERM2023. At checkout, type code 2023RIMSCAST for 10% off registration!

[2:52] The ERM Conference 2023 will be different than years past. We’ve got some great changes. Book your travel plans now! RIMS will host a Post-conference Workshop for the RIMS CRMP from 9:00 to 4:00 MT on November 4th and 5th. Save $100 when you register for the conference and workshop in one transaction. Links are in the notes.

[3:24] It is October; it’s cybersecurity awareness month in the U.S. and several other areas of the world and that’s why I’m so excited to introduce our guest, Pamela Hans, managing shareholder of the Philadelphia office of the law firm Anderson Kill. She focuses on insurance coverage, which includes cyber.

[3:45] We’re going to talk about cyber trends. I met Pamela at the RIMS Canada Conference in Ottawa last month where she was delivering a session on “Getting the Deal Done.” We’re also going to hear her tips on how to handle the curveballs that might be thrown at you ahead of a live presentation and how to turn them into opportunities.

[4:16] Justin met Pamela Hans of Anderson Kill on the last day of the RIMS Canada Conference 2023 when she was hosting a session. Pamela knows cybersecurity and October is National Cybersecurity Awareness Month in the U.S.

[5:57] The trend of the phone calls Pamela gets is all about ransomware. A threat actor freezes up the system, completely takes control, and demands a ransom in return for a description key. But the trend in cybersecurity is data breaches to steal personal data. Recently Topgolf, Freecycle, Forever21, Duolingo, and Discord.io suffered breaches.

[6:41] Those are just a few examples of cybersecurity incidents where personal sensitive data has been grabbed by the threat actor, with threats to use the data to do more damage to the individuals whose data was taken.

[7:03] Pamela has also seen distributed denial of service attacks. The army of bots seems to be increasing in number while the cost is decreasing to rent a bot to execute a distributed denial of service attack.

[7:50] When there is an exfiltration of personal data, that data can be used by the threat actor to do more damage to the individuals by impersonating the user and fraud.

[8:29] Pamela addresses the SEC rules on the disclosure of cybersecurity events and the annual obligation imposed on publicly traded and registered companies to disclose their cybersecurity governance. That has an impact on the company and its stock price. The public may then decide which companies to trust by their cybersecurity protocols.

[9:30] Justin refers to the RIMScast episode with Hilary Tuttle on the SEC cybersecurity reporting rules. They discussed the four-day reporting rule. Four days after the company finds out they were attacked in a material fashion they have to report the breach.

[10:09] Pamela notes that a material breach is one that investors would want to know about before investing in the company, as the breach may affect the value of the stock and the company. This is an important SEC rule on cybersecurity governance.

[11:41] Risk professionals should be asking questions about this rule now. Prepare to make these required reports. Run tabletop exercises with your response team. Ascertain now what “material,” in the cyber context, looks like to your company. Getting ready now is important, for when you experience a cybersecurity event.

[13:23] Pamela speaks about the need for cybersecurity awareness. Any individual can be the gateway to a cybersecurity event. Everyone who has a device needs to be aware of cybersecurity risks to help prevent infiltration by cybercriminals of our phones, laptops, and businesses.

[14:54] Cybersecurity is as simple as multi-factor authentication. Don’t give away your passwords. Be thinking about cybersecurity, Don’t click on the puppy dog.

[15:58] Justin presents a special message from Bob Roitblat in case you missed his RIMScast episode.

[16:16] Bob Roitblat is excited to be the keynote speaker for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, in Denver, on November 2nd and 3rd. His keynote is “Elevate, Revolutionize, Maximize: Harnessing Innovation’s Promise.” Bob reveals what to expect and asks you to bring your “A game,” be ready to ask questions and interact to get value.

[17:34] Go to RIMS.org/ERM2023 to register. If you enter the code 2023RIMSCAST at checkout, you will get 10% off your registration! It’s value with a discount! Bob looks forward to helping you elevate and evolve your risk management processes and your career! Be there in Denver, November 2nd and 3rd! Links are in the show notes.

[18:36] Pamela reviews her career path, with degrees in civil engineering and then law school. She knew she wanted to solve technical problems for companies. Cybersecurity is a natural fit for her background. Cybersecurity is everywhere.

[21:07] Pamela foresees two things from these new reporting rules. One will be SEC subpoenas to companies for information about their cybersecurity reporting and governance. Another will be shareholder scrutiny and lawsuits around failure to disclose or poor evaluation of materiality. The rule is self-enforcing through shareholder suits.

[22:35] Pamela predicts we’ll see more D&O coverage activity because of this rule. Risk professionals need to be looking at that when renewing or placing new D&O coverage, asking their brokers about the impact of the new SEC requirement around disclosure and materiality. Risk managers will need to explain this if there is a subpoena or claim.

[23:52] Risk managers also need to be thinking of looking across the entire insurance program, to see which insurance policies may respond in the event of an SEC subpoena or a claim related to disclosure. Now is the time to prepare for what may be coming.

[24:40] Pamela says risk professionals need to ask their insurance broker what is new in their policy since last year. Are there new endorsements or policy language? New policy language or endorsements for 2024 will be enormously important. Risk managers should also run tabletop exercises with the insurance pre-approved response team.

[26:53] Risk professionals should look at your policies now to see what policies will respond if you have an SEC claim and what the policy limits are. Your policies need to be on paper, not on your computer network, and not named “Cyber Policy 1,” or “Cyber Policy 2,” where threat actors can find and read them on the network.

[27:54] RIMS plug time! Sponsor an episode of RIMScast! Contact us at [email protected]. Justin is pleased, humbled, and excited to announce that RIMS and RIMScast have won the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award on October 24, 2023, from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

[28:41] On Friday, November 10th, from 10 to 11, NYSAE is presenting a virtual program called ”Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association.” Justin is honored to be one of the panelists. A link is in this episode’s notes.

[28:57] Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. Our friend Elise Farnham returns on October 24th and 25th to lead the two-day course Fundamentals of Risk Management.

[29:20] Our friend Chris Hansen was recently on RIMScast. He will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course! Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[29:49] On October 12th, AXA XL returns to present Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals.

[30:06] On October 26th, our friends from Zurich return to present a session on PFAS,  Forever Chemicals, and PFAS Litigation. On October 31st, Resolver returns to present Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024. Metrics That Matter has Enhanced Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program on November 7.

[30:36] There is a lot of great educational content for you in the next month. Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[31:08] About Pamela Hans presenting the last session on the last day of the RIMS Canada Conference 2023. The session was “Do You Want to Get the Deal Done? Obstacles and Opportunities in Contract Negotiation.” She had a packed house for the session. She discussed deal-breakers and opportunities.

[33:58] You have tools as a risk professional to deal with risk transfer provisions you might not want. The session talked about how to make insurance work for you in this context and how to indemnify a counterparty that is 10,000 times larger than you. How can your insurance respond to make these provisions opportunities, not deal-breakers?

[35:03] People left the session with ideas about what to ask their insurance broker and the business side, to know what they should be ready for.

[36:09] Pamela was scheduled to present with two co-presenters but neither of them could attend. For Pamela, it was an opportunity to have fun with the people who were in the room. Presentations are better when they are conversations with the people in the room. It was terrific!

[38:34] Justin suggests if you are going to present and your co-presenters back out, look at it as an opportunity. If you need additional materials get them from the organization you represent, but be confident you can do 20 minutes by yourself. Open it up to Q&A and that will take care of a lot of dialog. Pamela went past 60 minutes.

[39:18] Justin fell asleep twice in the 17-minute flight back to the U.S. He was disappointed the flight attendant didn’t wake him!

[40:54] Special thanks to Pamela Hans of Anderson Kill for joining us on RIMScast for National Cybersecurity Awareness Month coverage. The session handout from her RIMS Canada Conference session, “Do You Want to Get the Deal Done?” is available via the RIMS Canada Conference 2023 Attendees Service Center. See link in show notes.

[41:16] Go to the App Store on your phone and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS app!

[41:36] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[42:17] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[42:41] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[42:56] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[43:17] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25 & 26, Washington, D.C.

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

Spencer Educational Foundation — Hire A Risk Intern 2024 | Deadline Oct. 15, 2023

Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024 — Be a Case Study or Join Judging Panel!

“Do You Want To Get The Deal Done?” — Session handouts still available via the RIMS Canada Conference Attendee Service Center

RIMScast to receive the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

“NYSAE Webinar: Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association”

RIMS Webinars:

Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals | Sponsored by AXA XL | Oct. 12, 2023

PFAS Forever Chemicals — Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 26, 2023

Building Your Business Case for GRC Software in 2024 | Sponsored by Resolver | Oct. 31, 2023

Enhance Decision-Making Across Your Cybersecurity Program | Sponsored by Metrics That Matter | Nov. 7, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Claims Management | Oct 10–11

Fundamentals of Risk Management | Oct 24–25

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Harnessing Innovation’s Promise with ERM Conference Keynote Bob Roitblat”

‘Cybersecurity Reporting Updates with Hilary Tuttle of Risk Management Magazine”

“Cybersecurity and Insurance Outlook 2023 with Josephine Wolff”

“Genuine Generative AI Talk with Tom Wilde of Indico Data”

“Getting to Know Jackware with Dan Healy of Anderson Kill”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response (New!)

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant (New!)

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“How to Reduce Lithium-Ion Battery Fire Risks” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Managing Global Geopolitical Risk in 2022 and Beyond” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn

About our guest, Pamela Hans

LinkedIn Pamela HansSenior Shareholder, Cyber practice

Pennsylvania office of Anderson Kill

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

Consumers are giving their personal information to a company they want to do business with and then that company is attacked and the individual’s information can be used by the threat actor to do more damage to the individual by way of fraud. — Pamela Hans

A material breach is one that investors would want to have information about that might influence their decision to buy or not to buy a stock, because it may impact the value of the stock and the value of the company going forward.— Pamela Hans

Risk professionals should look at your policies now to understand what policies will respond if you have an SEC claim because of the reporting requirement and what the policy limits are. What are the requirements of notice? — Pamela Hans

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. Justin is delighted to welcome innovation thought leader Bob Roitblat to RIMScast. Bob is the keynote speaker at RIMS ERM Conference 2023. He speaks about his keynote, “Elevate, Revolutionize, Maximize: Harnessing Innovation’s Promise.” Bob shares how innovation ties into strategy and risk, and how you can harness the great potential of innovation through careful strategy and risk management. Bob is an engaging speaker who asks his audience to be prepared to participate and learn. Get set for a dynamic keynote presentation on harnessing innovation’s promise for your organization!

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:14] Register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, which will be held in Denver, Colorado on November 2nd–3rd. RIMS will also host an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena in Denver on November 1st. Limited seating is available. Visit RIMS.org/ERM to register and listen to this episode to hear the code for 10% off your registration!

[:41] About today’s episode with RIMS ERM Conference 2023 keynote Bob Roitblat.

[1:01] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! Would you like funding to hire a risk management intern in 2024? If so, take a moment to apply for a Spencer Internship Grant. The application form will close on October 15th. The link is in this episode’s notes.

[1:27] If you will be attending RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego, California, take a moment to sign up as a volunteer judge in the Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024. This is our annual international student competition. Full details can be found on the Spencer website at Spencered.org. Get involved; participate. We want to see you there!

[1:51] Head to the RIMS.org/Advocacy page to register for The RIMS Legislative Summit, which is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th.

[2:03] The RIMS ERM Conference 2023 will be held November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado. On November 1st, RIMS is hosting an ERM-based tour of Ball Arena, where the Denver Nuggets and Denver Avalanche play. There is limited seating. Register at RIMS.org/ERM2023. At checkout, type code 2023RIMSCAST for 10% off registration!

[2:51] The ERM Conference 2023 will be different than years past. We’ve got some great changes. Book your travel plans now! RIMS will host a Post-conference Workshop for the RIMS CRMP from 9:00 to 4:00 MT on November 4th and 5th. Save $100 when you register for the conference and workshop in one transaction. Links are in the notes.

[3:21] Bob Roitblat is a multiple business owner and well-known TEDx speaker. Bob will kick off the RIMS ERM Conference 2023 on November 2nd with his keynote, “Elevate, Revolutionize, Maximize: Harnessing Innovation’s Promise.” Bob is very engaging and I am looking forward to the energy he will bring to the keynote address on November 2nd!

[4:30] Bob Roitblat has started a dozen companies. Each company focused on three areas: innovation, strategy, and risk. The three areas are closely tied together. You can’t be successful in one without the other two. It’s a three-legged stool.

[5:03] Bob describes innovation as doing something new and different that makes a difference. It could be new products or services, a new business model, or a new organizational structure. It’s something that you haven’t done before that will make a difference to your organization. (A positive difference, preferably!)

[6:00] Most of the time when people innovate within an organization, they don’t call attention to it, they just run more efficiently. Amazon is a huge logistics company that runs smoothly. They spend billions on innovation. They bought a robotics company to have robots to deliver products on schedule.

[6:28] There is also the innovation of developing products and services for external consumption by customers. Bob cites Zia Chisti, who invented Invisalign braces. Orthodontia hadn’t changed for 100 years until a Stanford student wanted to change the experience of braces. Within 10 years, he completely altered orthodontia.

[7:20] Richard Montañez, a janitor who worked for Frito-Lay, invented Flaming Hot Cheetos. He altered the landscape for focus marketing. He went after a segment of the market people didn’t think to go after. Now we’re not just marketing to people but to segments of those people. Richard retired as the VP of Multicultural Affairs at Pepsico.

[10:05] Bob describes the upcoming influence of AI digital workers on innovation. In terms of efficiency, we are underselling the capabilities of digital workers. Let’s elevate our perspective. How do we use digital workers to drive the top line, open new markets, and address new submarkets like Montañez did?

[11:44] Software bots may or may not use AI but they are digital workers.

[11:57] RIMS plug time! Sponsor an episode of RIMScast! Contact us at [email protected]. Justin is pleased, humbled, and excited to announce that RIMS and RIMScast have won the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award on October 24, 2023, from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

[12:41] On Friday, November 10th, from 10 to 11, NYSAE is presenting a virtual program called ”Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association.” Justin is honored to be one of the panelists. A link is in this episode’s notes.

[12:57] Upcoming Virtual Workshops: Visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops to see the full calendar. October 2nd is the last day to register for Applying and Integrating ERM, a two-day course on October 3rd and 4th, led by Elise Farnham. On October 10th and 11th, our friend Gail Kiyomura will host a two-day workshop on Claims Management.

[13:28] Our friend Chris Hansen was recently on RIMScast. He will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course! Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[13:56] On October 12th, AXA XL returns to present Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals.

[14:10] On October 26th, our friends from Zurich return to present a session on PFAS,  Forever Chemicals and PFAS Litigation. Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[15:11] Bob’s November 2nd keynote preview: Imagine that innovation is a lake. It’s full of potential. Unless you harness that flow in some way, you can’t take advantage of it. Your strategy is a dam. You set it so the flow doesn’t wipe out the town below. That’s good risk avoidance.

[15:57] Maybe your strategy is to use irrigation pipes to make the surrounding land tillable and farmable. That generates revenue. Maybe your strategy is a hydroelectric plant inside the dam and generate electricity to sell. Unless you have a strategy to extract value from your lake of innovation, it only has potential value.

[16:46] The theme of the keynote is how to build your dam strategy to extract value from the innovation that you can identify.

[17:11] Bob says to attend the keynote and be prepared to participate! It will not be a one-way data dump! You won’t be bored! There will be a QIOS session. Bob won’t have all the answers, but he’ll answer your Questions with Ideas, Opinions, and Suggestions! Let’s start the conversation!

[18:00] With Bob’s keynote and the following sessions by other speakers, the people who show up will be overloaded with value, and knowledge, and be prepared to go back to their organizations and “take over the world.”

[18:29] Bob uses lots of images in his keynote, produced by Gen AI and edited in Photoshop and enhanced with Adobe Illustrator. But digital isn’t always the answer. Sometimes analog images are the best way.

[19:47] October is National Cybersecurity Awareness Month. It’s a subject of the Conference and Bob will address it. Listen in the keynote for the top ten innovations Bob thinks will have the biggest impact on Enterprise Risk Management. Two of the ten deal with cybersecurity.

[20:12] Bob shares a point. If you sign up for ChatGPT and you want to have access to the latest LLM, it’s a subscription of $20.00 a month. If you subscribe to FraudGPT, a chatbot that helps you hack into things and be fraudulent, you pay a subscription of $200 a month. Don’t tell Bob that crime doesn’t pay!

[21:04] Bob’s parting words: “If you see me in the hall, grab me, tell me what you want to talk about. If you disagree with me, please speak up, let’s have the conversation. And I've already changed my airfare to stay a little longer ’cause I just saw a new session popped up that I want to go to! So this will be the event of the season! Let’s do it!”

[21:26] Special thanks again to Bob Roitblat, our RIMS ERM Conference 2023 keynote speaker for joining us. Register today at RIMS.org/ERM2023. You get to hear Bob first thing in the morning on November 2nd and you’ll have the chance to connect with him after the keynote, possibly in some other sessions. Links are in the show notes.

[21:49] Go to the App Store on your phone and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS app!

[22:08] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[22:50] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[23:13] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[23:29] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[23:49] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25–26, Washington, D.C.

RIMS Western Regional — Oct 4–6, Vail Colorado

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMScast to receive the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

“NYSAE Webinar: Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association”

Spencer Educational Foundation — Hire A Risk Intern 2024 | Deadline Oct. 15, 2023

Spencer-RIMS Risk Management Challenge 2024 — Be a Case Study or Join Judging Panel!

RIMS Webinars:

Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals | Sponsored by AXA XL | Oct. 12, 2023

PFAS Forever Chemicals — Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 26, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Claims Management | Oct 10–11

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops

Related RIMScast Episodes:

The Future of AI and Work with Sinead Bovell

Live from the RIMS ERM Conference 2022

Risk and Leadership with Lt. Gen. (ret) Roméo Dallaire

Genuine Generative AI Talk with Tom Wilde of Indico Data

ERM in Banking & Finance with Eleni Willis

Security Risks and Implementing ERM with Kelly Johnstone

Emerging Risks and Board Reporting with Suzanne Christensen

ERM at the Veterans Benefits Administration

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response (New!)

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant (New!)

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“How to Reduce Lithium-Ion Battery Fire Risks” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Managing Global Geopolitical Risk in 2022 and Beyond” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest, Bob Roitblat

Roitblat.com

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

Imagine that innovation is a lake. It’s full of potential. But unless you harness that water flow in some way, you’re not going to be able to take advantage of it. So you’re going to come up with a dam. Your strategy is a dam. — Bob Roitblat

The theme of the keynote is how to build your “dam strategy” to extract value from the innovation that you can identify. — Bob Roitblat

We’re going to do a QIOS. … I don’t have all the answers, but please, ask your Questions and I will share some ideas, give you my Opinions, and make some Suggestions! Let’s start the conversation! — Bob Roitblat

If you subscribe to FraudGPT, a chatbot that helps you hack into things and be fraudulent, that subscription costs you $200 a month. So please don’t tell me that crime doesn’t pay! — Bob Roitblat

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. International Podcast Day™, September 30th, is an international celebration of the power of podcasts. Help spread the word by sharing #InternationalPodcastDay. Let’s keep the celebration going. Justin interviews two repeat guests, Jay Gates and Elisa Stampf, who both host popular podcasts, and gets them to share their podcasting secrets with you.

Listen for insight into the intersection of risk management and podcast production.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:36] About today’s episode for International Podcast Day, September 30th.

[:58] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held October 4th–6th in Vail, Colorado. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com for more information and to register.

[1:15] Head to the RIMS.org/Advocacy page to find information about The RIMS Legislative Summit, which is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th.

[1:29] We are very excited about the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado! The theme is Elevate and Evolve. The ERM Conference 2023 will have some great changes; book your travel plans now! Visit the registration link in this episode’s notes. Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout to receive 10% off registration.

[2:01] September 30th is International Podcast™ Day. Justin loves producing RIMScast and being in touch with you every week to provide insight from leading minds in risk, insurance, and business! Today, Justin interviews a couple of podcasters in the risk and insurance space about what it takes to launch a podcast and keep it going.

[2:40] Justin introduces Jay Gates of Know the Risk. Jay was a guest on RIMScast on June 8, 2020, speaking on advocacy. Justin met Jay at RISKWORLD 2023 and he was just as much fun in person as he was virtually! Jay hosts Know The Risk and is a claims advocate with Arthur J. Gallagher.

[3:31] Jay Gates, welcome back to RIMScast for International Podcast Day!

[4:17] Jay Gates started at Sedgwick and spent 12 years in the TPA business doing everything from claims management to assistant ops manager for national large retail accounts. Next, Jay went to RMH and became Director of Risk Management, managing 175 Applebee’s in 15 states.

[4:44] After Applebee’s, Jay went to Gallagher in national risk control. Now he is Managing Director of the Restaurant Practice Group. Jay has been with Gallagher for four years.

[5:46] Jay started the Know the Risk podcast when podcasts were starting to be big. He thought it would be fun and people told him he had a voice for radio. It was one of the first podcasts to talk about risk management in restaurants. At first, he recorded now and then. Now that he has a following, he records regularly.

[7:07] You need consistency to keep your followers.

[7:32] Know the Risk is a side project for Jay. He doesn’t make money from it. He promotes Gallagher in it. He keeps it relevant. He hasn’t had any pushback for it. Jay says it is beneficial to Gallagher and to the risk industry, as well as to himself.

[8:21] People know Jay from his podcast, his traveling with Gallagher, and LinkedIn. He has a lot of connections and the podcast is just part of it. Podcasting is a nerdy industry and Jay tells people he’s an insurance nerd. People ask when the next episode will drop. One recent episode had over 2,000 downloads.

[10:28] Jay has a server that holds the shows, a GoDaddy website, editing software on his laptop, a couple of microphones, and the right equipment to record a decent-quality show. He does it all himself. He can record anywhere. He edits out background noise, coughing, miscues, and “ums,” and then publishes it.

[11:39] Justin and Jay discuss setting the gain correctly and other audio topics. Make sure that every way you can be muted is turned off before you start recording. Is there a mute button on your headset you don’t know about?

[13:03] Jay’s last words of advice: “Keep it short. People tell me, when they listen, it’s on the treadmill, at the airport, or when they need a break. Keep it to 15 or 20 minutes, or 30 if it’s really good content. Consistency is key. I get better feedback from my listeners if I drop a show on some kind of schedule.” The podcast is at www.knowtherisk.biz.

[14:26] RIMS plug time! Sponsor an episode of RIMScast! Contact us at [email protected]. Justin is pleased, humbled, and excited to announce that RIMS and RIMScast have won the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award on October 24, 2023, from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

[15:20] On Friday, November 10th, from 10 to 11, NYSAE is presenting a virtual webinar called ”Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association.” Justin is honored to be one of the panelists. A link is in this episode’s notes.

[15:37] Optimizing Risk Management with Artificial Intelligence will be led on September 28th by Pat Saporito. Chris Hansen will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course!

[16:22] Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[16:31] The next virtual RIMS CRMP workshop will be on September 26th and 27th and it will be led by Joseph Milan. Visit RIMS.org/Certification for these and future workshops. A link is also in this episode’s show notes, as is a link to the full Virtual Workshop calendar.

[16:55] On September 26th, Gallagher returns to present A Road Less Challenged? An Outlook on the Management Liability Market at 10:30 a.m. Eastern Time. On October 12th, AXA XL returns to present Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals.

[17:21] On October 26th, our friends from Zurich return to present a session on PFAS,  Forever Chemicals and PFAS Litigation. Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[17:45] Elisa Stampf is the Cofounder and CEO of Insure Equality, a nonprofit based in Chicago that seeks to create and enforce accountability in the insurance profession and industry in the pursuit of diversity and equality. You may remember Elisa from two episodes ago, when we talked about International Equal Pay Day.

[18:07] Justin introduces Elisa Stampf. Elisa hosts Insure Equality’s video podcast series, Come As You Are. We are going to talk about what inspired the show and how vital it is, especially since her organization is still new and growing.

[18:23] Elisa Stampf, welcome back to RIMScast for International Podcast Day! 

[18:37] Justin and Elisa had had big events the previous week; Justin at the RIMS Canada Conference in Ottawa and Elisa at the first Insure Equality Summit in Chicago. Elisa says the Summit was incredible. They had people from over half the states, 35 speakers, dancing, and the most diverse group of insurance professionals.

[19:18] Elisa reports the Insure Equality Summit was the most warm and lovely space to celebrate, be together, and learn. Elisa explained how dancing to Rihanna’s “Work” occurred to lighten the mood of some heavy topics.

[21:25] Elisa was in the risk and insurance for over 10 years. She started in banking after graduating from college, but did underwriting for over six years, marketing for over three years, and was on the agency side for a couple of years. As a licensed agent, Elisa has six designations, including CPCU. Now she is making insurance a better place.

[22:07] The video podcast, Come As You Are, did not begin immediately when Elisa launched Insure Equality. As the organization progressed, Elisa noticed that people outside of insurance were invested in Insure Equality. One of the top questions Elisa gets is “Can you tell us about insurance and insurance professionals?”

[23:00] The podcast, Come As You Are. became an avenue to give voice to the many insurance professionals in the Insure Equality network and the people outside of the network who were tangentially connected to it, actively working to make change within it. Elisa and Insure Equality realized that other people should hear these conversations.

[23:23] One conversation was with a meditation specialist. Elisa’s sister was in an episode to talk about grief. There are conversations that we’re not used to having. These conversations helped to build the speaker list for the summit.

[23:59] The next podcast series will be launched in October. It will start with everyone giving an insurance story. Elisa’s first guest in the second series was in the diet industry. Her insurance story was unexpected. Elisa invites you to listen to it. As insurance professionals, we are highly curious and always want to know. Elisa will focus on story.

[24:56] Elisa has been a marketing rep. That helped her launch the podcast. She has no stage fright; she’s holding the mic, and it’s just two people having a conversation. It’s just about talking to some awesome people. As Elise looks back at life, she sees all the little things that contributed to who she is today. She’s always been a fan of podcasts.

[27:30] Justin recalls his past work as a writer and stand-up comic in Manhattan. Getting a laugh onstage is the biggest thing ever, and doing RIMScast interviews is the closest thing to that feeling at the same weekly frequency. Elisa talks about getting the guest’s undivided attention, which has intention behind it. It’s a different way to interact.

[29:30] Justin asserts that any company or organization today needs sound or video on their website. A podcast is a necessity. Elisa notes that is especially so since the pandemic hit. Communication is virtual and by social media. E.g., Reels and TikTok. People want to see and hear you in a different way.

[30:08] People tell Elisa across the country, “I found you from a podcast.” People listen when they’re walking to school, work, or driving to their next appointment. Those little bits of humanity and connection are how we make change in the world. Podcasts are the perfect way for people to attach to your organization.

[31:52] Find Come As You Are at InsureEquality.org and on YouTube at InsureEquality.

[32:03] Elisa Stampf will be at RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego. The topic she will share will be Stakeholders. Maybe she will dance the Charleston. Justin will dance the Charleston and follow up with his Regis Philbin impression.

[32:44] Special thanks again to Jay Gates of Know the Risk and Elisa Stampf of Insure Equality for joining us on RIMScast. Links to their podcasts are in this episode’s show notes. When you see them at RISKWORLD 2024 in San Diego, tell them that you heard them on RIMScast! Happy International Podcast Day, everybody!

[33:00] Go to the App Store on your phone and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS app!

[33:20] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[34:02] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[34:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[34:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[35:03] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25 & 26, Washington, D.C.

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO! Enter 2023RIMSCAST at checkout for 10% off registration!

RIMS Western Regional — Oct 4–6, Vail Colorado

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMScast to receive the 2023 Excellence in MarCom Award from the New York Society of Association Executives (NYSAE)!

“NYSAE Webinar: Podcasting — A Revenue Stream for Your Association”

RIMS Webinars:

A Road Less Challenged? An Outlook on the Management Liability Market | Sponsored by Gallagher | Sept. 26, 2023

Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals | Sponsored by AXA XL | Oct. 12, 2023

PFAS Forever Chemicals — Regulations, Litigation, New Technologies | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 26, 2023

RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Optimizing Risk Management with AI | Sept. 28

Claims Management | Oct 10–11

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Equality and the Risk Profession with Elisa Stampf”

“RIMS Advocacy with Jay Gates” (2020)

“Including Disability In DEI Efforts with Alycia Anderson”

“Mental Health Awareness Month 2023”

“Risk and Leadership with Lt. Gen. (ret) Roméo Dallaire”

“RIMS Public Policy and Advocacy 2023”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response (New!)

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant (New!)

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“How to Reduce Lithium-Ion Battery Fire Risks” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Managing Global Geopolitical Risk in 2022 and Beyond” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

About our guest, Elisa Stampf CEO of Insure Equality and host of Come As You Are

InsureEquality.orgYouTube InsureEquality

About our guest, Jay Gates

On LinkedIn: Jay Gates, CPCU

KnowTheRisk.biz

Arthur J. Gallagher

Tweetables (Edited For Social Media Use):

Know the Risk was one of the first podcasts to talk about risk management in restaurants. At first, I recorded here and there. Now I have a following, so I record regularly and keep dropping good-quality content. — Jay Gates

Keep it short. People tell me, when they listen, it’s on the treadmill, at the airport, or when they take a break. Keep it to 15 or 20 minutes, or 30 if it’s really good content. Consistency is key. Drop a show on some kind of schedule. — Jay Gates

The podcast, Come As You Are. became an avenue to give voice to the many insurance professionals in the Insure Equality network and the people outside of the network who were tangentially connected to it. — Elisa Stampf

Those little bits of humanity and connection are how we make change in the world. Podcasts are the perfect way for people to attach to your organization. — Elisa Stampf

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. General Dallaire is an outspoken advocate for human rights, bringing attention to situations too often ignored, whether the atrocities of genocide, the struggle of veterans with mental health injuries, or the recruitment and use of child soldiers. He addresses geo-political issues, global and international affairs, leadership skills, and conflict resolution. Listen for insight into discerning deception, using the media for good, and learning to observe and assess the behavior of your competition.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMScast.

[:39] About today’s episode, where we will talk about risk and leadership with our special guest Lt. Gen. (ret) Roméo Dallaire.

[1:01] All about exciting, upcoming RIMS events! The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held October 4th–6th in Vail, Colorado. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com for more information and to register.

[1:17] Head to the RIMS.org/Advocacy page to find information about The RIMS Legislative Summit, which is returning to Washington, D.C. on October 25th and 26th.

[1:32] We are very excited about the RIMS ERM Conference 2023, which will be held November 2nd and 3rd in Denver, Colorado! The theme is Elevate and Evolve. The Conference will be different than years past with some great changes; book your travel plans now! Visit the Events page of RIMS.org or the links in this episode’s notes.

[1:59] Throughout Lt.-Gen. Roméo Dallaire’s distinguished military career, he served in staff, training, and command positions throughout North America. Europe, and Africa, rising in rank from Army cadet in 1960 to  Lt.-Gen. In 1998.

[2:18] Most notably, Gen. Dallaire was appointed the Force Commander of the U.N.’s Assistance Mission for Rwanda prior to and during the 1994 genocide.

[2:28] His defiant dedication to humanity during that mission has been well-documented in films and books, including his own award-winning account Shake Hands with the Devil: The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda.

[2:39] Gen. Dallaire is one of Canada’s national treasures and we were so honored that he keynoted Day 2 of the RIMS Canada Conference 2023 in Ottawa. Justin was captivated by his presentation and had a chance to catch up with him right after, to ask him for some follow-ups.

[2:55] Lt.-Gen. Roméo Dallaire, welcome to RIMScast!

[3:07] Lt.-Gen. Roméo Dallaire just presented one of the most memorable keynotes ever at the RIMS Canada Conference 2023. Justin thanks him for being on RIMScast and has some follow-up questions for Gen. Dallaire.

[3:25] Lt.-Gen. Dallaire used the media as a weapon for good. His advice is first, not to consider the media as an enemy. They are seeking information to advance the knowledge of the population. Gen. Dallaire gave the media access to everything except some classified material that would put people’s lives at risk.

[4:28] The instrument of media can get your message out. You can influence public opinion through the media. Without public opinion, you can find yourself isolated and you don’t get much feedback.

[5:15] Lt.-Gen. Dallaire used his eyes and body language to get his message across. His eyes showed his conviction. The eyes show whether you are sincere. He talked to the media and passed information to them as a human being. The words would flow. Sometimes he was vulgar and combative but he always informed. He used no script.

[6:29] RIMS plug time! Sponsor an episode of RIMScast! Contact us at [email protected]. For upcoming virtual workshops visit RIMS.org/virtualworkshops for the calendar. Managing Data for ERM is a three-module course that begins September 21st.

[7:17] Optimizing Risk Management with Artificial Intelligence will be led on September 28th by Pat Saporito. Recent RIMScast guest Chris Hansen will be leading Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability, and Employment Practices in the US on November 7th and 8th. Be sure to register for that course! [7:50] Information about these sessions and others is on the RIMS Virtual Workshops page. Check it out and register!

[8:03] The next virtual RIMS CRMP workshop will be on September 26th and 27th and it will be led by Joseph Milan. Visit RIMS.org/Certification for these and future workshops. A link is also in this episode’s show notes, as is a link to the full Virtual Workshop calendar.

[8:23] On September 26th, Gallagher returns to present A Road Less Challenged? An Outlook on the Management Liability Market at 10:30 a.m. Eastern Time. On October 12th, AXA XL returns to present Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals.

[8:49] Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to learn more about these webinars and to register! Links are in the show notes. Webinar registration is complimentary for RIMS members.

[9:14] One of the bullets in Lt.-Gen. Dallaire’s presentation was on deception. The essence of discerning deception is understanding the enemy or the other players. Understanding the philosophy of the leadership of the other players means knowing what values they have and what references they use in decision-making.

[10:07] How do the other players see their clients or treat their people? When you have that type of insight, then you can discern when there’s a change happening. A deception plan puts a smokescreen up to hide the other plan they have going. The smokescreen can only last as long and be effective as you’ve convinced other people it’s the truth.

[10:42] If you keep your eye on them, and have enough information on how they think and act, you can discern whether or not there is something in the midst. That is a quality senior management needs to spend time enough to develop. Get good intelligence on your competitors. Get to the gut of their organizations.

[12:01] That is dependent on your ability to assess your capacity to achieve your mission. You’ve got to keep your focus on your aim. Based on what’s coming at you, you must adapt within the parameters of the aim you are trying to achieve.

[13:07] Lt.-Gen. Dallaire’s last thoughts: The parameter that should be guiding us all is that we are in a period of enormous, revolutionary flux. It’s a unique time in humanity. We can talk to the whole of humanity. We can assess the whole of the planet. Try to master the scale of what we’re able to do to move the future.

[13:44] We don’t wait for something to happen; what we should do is shape the future, and prevent things from happening as a result.

[14:02] Justin thanks Lt.-Gen, Dallaire for being his guest on RIMScast.

[14:11] Special thanks again to Lt. Gen. Roméo Dallaire for joining us on RIMScast. It was a thrill to meet and speak with him. You can find coverage of the RIMS Canada Conference 2023 at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Links are in the episode’s show notes.

[14:27] Go to the App Store on your phone and download the RIMS App. This is a special members-only benefit. Everybody loves the RIMS app!

[14:48] You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in our show notes. RIMScast has a global audience of risk professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate! Contact [email protected] for more information.

[15:30] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. The RIMS app is available only for RIMS members! You can find it in the App Store.

[15:54] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[16:10] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com and in print, and check out the blog at RiskManagementMonitor.com. Justin Smulison is Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at [email protected].

[32:32] Justin thanks you for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!

Mentioned in this Episode:

NEW FOR MEMBERS! RIMS Mobile App

RIMS Legislative Summit — Oct 25 & 26, Washington, D.C.

RIMS Advocacy

RIMS ERM Conference 2023 | Nov 2–3 in Denver, CO!

RIMS Western Regional — Oct 4–6, Vail Colorado

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

Dan Kugler Risk Manager on Campus Grant

RIMS Webinars:

A Road Less Challenged? An Outlook on the Management Liability Market | Sponsored by Gallagher | Sept. 26, 2023

Stand Tall: How to Boost your Cyber Posture Against Creative Cyber Criminals | Sponsored by AXA XL | Oct. 12, 2023 RIMS.org/Webinars Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Optimizing Risk Management with AI | Sept. 28

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops

Upcoming Virtual Workshops:

Optimizing Risk Management with AI | Sept. 28

Managing Worker Compensation, Employer's Liability and Employment Practices in the US | Nov 7

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual WorkshopsAll RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops

Related RIMScast Episodes:

“Mental Health Awareness Month 2023”

“The Future of AI and Work with Sinead Bovell” (RIMS Canada 2023 Keynote)

“Crisis-Ready with RIMS Canada 2023 Closing Keynote Melissa Agnes”

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

“Subrogation and the Competitive Advantage” | Sponsored by Fleet Response (New!)

“Cyberrisk Outlook 2023” | Sponsored by Alliant (New!)

“Chemical Industry: How To Succeed Amid Emerging Risks and a Challenging Market” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Insuring the Future of the Environment” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Insights into the Gig Economy and its Contractors” | Sponsored by Zurich

“The Importance of Disaster Planning Relationships” | Sponsored by ServiceMaster

“Technology, Media and Telecom Solutions in 2023” | Sponsored by Allianz

“Analytics in Action” | Sponsored by Alliant

“Captive Market Outlook and Industry Insights” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“Using M&A Insurance: The How and Why” | Sponsored by Prudent Insurance Brokers Ltd.

“Zurich’s Construction Sustainability Outlook for 2023”

“Aon’s 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season Overview”

“ESG Through the Risk Lens” | Sponsored by Riskonnect

“A Look at the Cyber Insurance Market” | Sponsored by AXA XL

“How to Reduce Lithium-Ion Battery Fire Risks” | Sponsored by TÜV SÜD

“Managing Global Geopolitical Risk in 2022 and Beyond” | Sponsored by AXA XL

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

Risk Management Magazine

Risk Management Monitor

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RIMS-CRMP Stories — New interview featuring Roland Teo!

Spencer Educational Foundation

RIMS DEI Council

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

RIMS Events App Apple | Google Play

RIMS Buyers Guide

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org and listen on Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest, Lieutenant-General (ret) Roméo A. Dallaire

The Honorable Roméo A. Dallaire, O.C., C.M.M., G.O.Q., M.S.C., C.D., L.O.M. (U.S.), B.ésS., LL.D. (Hon.), D.Sc.Mil (Hon.), D.U.

Roméo Dallaire is the founder of the Dallaire Institute for Children, Peace, and Security, a global partnership with the mission to end and prevent the recruitment and use of children in violence. A celebrated advocate for human rights, especially in regard to child soldiers, veterans, and the prevention of mass atrocities, General Dallaire is also a respected government and UN advisor and former Canadian Senator.

Throughout his distinguished military career, General Dallaire served in staff, training, and command positions throughout North America, Europe, and Africa, rising in rank from Army Cadet in 1960 to Lieutenant-General in 1998.

Most notably, General Dallaire was appointed Force Commander of the United Nations Assistance Mission for Rwanda prior to and during the 1994 genocide.  General Dallaire provided the United Nations with information about the planned massacre, which ultimately took more than 800,000 lives in less than 100 days; yet, permission to intervene was denied and the UN withdrew its peacekeeping forces.  General Dallaire, along with a small contingent of Ghanaian and Tunisian soldiers and military observers, disobeyed the command to withdraw and remained in Rwanda to fulfill their ethical obligation to protect those who sought refuge with the UN forces.

His courage and leadership during this mission earned him the Meritorious Service Cross, the United States Legion of Merit, the Aegis Award on Genocide Prevention, and the affection and admiration of people around the globe.  His defiant dedication to humanity during that mission has been well-documented in films and books, including his own award-winning account: Shake Hands with the Devil: the Failure of Humanity in Rwanda.

General Dallaire’s 1997 revelation that he suffered from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder as a direct result of his mission in Rwanda paved the way for destigmatizing responders. Though it led to his being medically released from the Canadian Army in 2000, he has devoted decades of passionate leadership and advocacy to the issue on behalf of other veterans struggling with PTSD, including the publication of his bestselling memoir: Waiting for First Light: My Ongoing Battle with PTSD.

However, with his acclaimed book, They Fight Like Soldiers, They Die Like Children: The Global Quest to Eradicate the Use of Child Soldiers, General Dallaire proclaimed that the rest of his life will be devoted to the eradication of the use of children in war, and through the Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative he continually seeks innovative ways to help end the use of child soldiers.

​

Whether as a military commander, humanitarian, senator, or author, Roméo Dallaire has penetrated our national consciousness, often in supremely uncomfortable ways. Setting aside his natural reserve, he has felt compelled to bring national and international attention to situations too often ignored, whether the atrocities of the Rwandan genocide, the struggle that he and many other military veterans face with post-traumatic stress disorder, or the recruitment and use of child soldiers.

Tweetables (For Social Media Use):

“The essence of trying to discern deception is understanding … the enemy. So, you’re understanding the competition, but understanding the philosophy of the leadership of the institution that’s out there; … What values do they have?” — Lt.-Gen. Roméo Dallaire

“If you keep your eyeball on them and you have enough of the information on how they think and act, … you will be able to discern whether or not there is something in the midst.’” — Lt.-Gen. Roméo Dallaire

“You don’t sit there, waiting for something to happen; what you do is you shape the future, you prevent things from happening, and in fact, you anticipate what that can be, as a result.” — Lt.-Gen. Roméo Dallaire